Images of Ellipse1T ????

[mylestone]

Would nayone out there happen to have an EllipseI T-tail?
I just purchased one that seems to be missing some hardware.
The T-tail does not seem to fit properly flush with the Pivoting assembly.
The Stabilizer also has a lot of movement when screw is tight. This seems like an awfully small srew to hold that tail down.

Can anyone help?

[Barnsey]

The hardware which appears to be missing is two brass ferrules which are epoxied (by the customer) into the stab pin locating holes, into which the pins in the stabiliser saddle locate. The ferrules are installed with an equal bit poking out of the underside of the stab such that contact with the saddle is made at 3 points, the two ferrules and the max thickness part of the stab. Done right the stab is rock solid when bolted in place. I've not heard of the manufacturer-supplied teeny screw failing but it might be an idea not to lay it down in the grass...

The stab saddle assembly pivoting action was a bit stiff on some of the Mk1's I've seen, fixed by easing out the saddle a bit and fettling (easing) the bearing clearance a few microns. Should rock easily but slop-free.

One of the classics.

John
PS - as your photos show, the stab holes aren't quite in the same place as the pins, so fitting the ferrules correctly requires a touch of file work on the holes so that with the stab bolted in place the pins/ferrules fit together like a glove.

[mylestone]

Thanks John that is great info.
Do the ferriles look like that of a brass ferrile on servo mounting hardware that fit in the bushings for screws?
Should I try to cut them from brass tubing or try to get them form Jaro Muller?

Best
Myles

[Barnsey]

Here we go, a photo of the ferrules to help roll your own if Jaro is out of stock.

A couple of other memories of the Mk.1.
The outer wing panels simply slot onto the carbon joiners, a wrap of tape to stop them parting company with the centre panel when rolling. This isn't the most robust approach for maintaining rigid panel alignment under aerodynamic-imposed stresses at warp 2. If this is likely to be a problem at the next F3B trials :), the addition of location pins close to the LE and TE points would prove beneficial (the Mk.1 is the only moulded soarer I've seen which doesn't have this feature built in). Maybe someone who's done this might chime in with details.

The aluminium rudder pushrod can be too snug a fit through the hole in the mid-fuz bulkhead through which it has to be guided. I used a drill bit on a long stick to enlarge the hole a whisker. Guiding the pushrod into the bulkhead hole is easier if the end has a tapered piece of balsa pushed into the tube as a guide.

Even with a 4-5 cell sub C pack up front it still takes a good chunk of lead in the nose cone (and more bolted under the rx pack) to get the CG in place as I recollect.

I have throw/mix details somewhere in the loft if that's of any help.

John

[mylestone]

Awesome John,
Thanks for the info. I tried to contact Jaro and Euromodelle, but have not had a reply. THose ferrules look like rolled steel. I was thinkinng that I would head up to the LOH and pickup brass tubing and try to make that work. I test fit some Servo mounting brass ferrules which were too loose for the steel pins but the lip made the fit in the bottom of the stab perfect.

The ship came with an aluminum tube for the elevator but not the rudder. I was going to use control wire or perhaps a carbon rod.

The ship came with two 4cell Nicad AA's (8oz' total)that were pretty old, I peeled them out and am putting in one 5cel 2150mah NiMh on one side if the G10 plate and plannning for lead plates on the other. I guess I have to try to go as light as possible with the control rod for the elevator.
I'll post the fininshed product, Martini's are mixing :D

[Barnsey]

Hi Myles,
"The ship came with an aluminium tube for the elevator but not the rudder. I was going to use control wire or perhaps a carbon rod."

If you peek inside the fuz you should see one aluminium tube already installed, the elevator pushrod. All the Mk.1's I've seen had this installed at the factory (if you do need to connect an elevator pushrod, a good place to start for access to the rear bellcrank might be removal of enough of the vertical stab ply post to see what's required for attachment). Good idea on carbon. Carbon tube likely stiffer than carbon rod for the rudder pushrod, either more robust than the very-easy-to-bend-but-weighs-nothing aluminium tube.

"I guess I have to try to go as light as possible with the control rod for the elevator."

Given the performance envelope of this ship, I'd favour integrity over shaving an ounce :). RTF weight c. 88oz/2.5kg if memory serves. Gives the Ellipse excellent energy retention through manoeuvres. Have seen Mk.1's come off an F3B launch and complete half the FAI aerobatic schedule on the way back to terra firma. The Mk.1 was also an effective thermal duration ship in experienced hands, although without the inherent parkability stability of normal TD ships it needs flying almost 100% of the time (removing hand from stick to take a swig at the Martini okay but not much longer!).

John

[mylestone]

I'm having a local machine shop make ferrules from solid brass rod. It's gonna cost me fifty bucks :censored:
I'm going with a cable and sleeve on the Rudder its most accurate and bullet proof.
But I think it would cost me almost as much and weeks to order from Europe.
The shop is going to make me 3 sets, but what the heck will i need them for. I may just get to maiden at Cape Cod next week. I'll be ot there a week.

I've got tons of extra lead to melt down :)

[Barnsey]

Wow, maiden next week. Fast work. Cape Cod sounds a tad more exotic than the muddy quagmire my stuff gets flown from, surrounded by ever-curious cows and 'Oops, are we in the landing circle again' nonchalant sheep.

My very best wishes for a successful first flight.

50 bucks!! Maybe it's 22ct brass.

John

[mylestone]

Hey John just got the ferrules back and they cut them too tight. I'll bring them back tomorrow.
Would you happen to know the CG? I was just going to start at 35% and work my way back.

[Barnsey]

Myles, the notes I have give the CG as 88-90mm back from the root LE.

A friend flies his Mk.1 in thermal duration comps and uses 90mm.

Some basic set-up info from the notes may help you set things up for the maiden (note: these for the F3B Ellipse, not the electric version!). The attached graphic shows the reference point against which all elevator measurements are made and the following numbers used:
Elevator
27.5mm - neutral setting for duration
28.5mm - duration trim setting (mix) with dropped flaps (see below)
35mm - full up elev (distance/duration tasks)
20mm - full down elev (distance/duration tasks)
24mm - trim setting (mix) for full crow
25.5mm - trim setting for speed task
37mm - full up for speed task
20mm - full down for speed task

Which leaves us with:
Rudder
15mm left/right (12mm for CAR mix)

Ailerons
10mm up/5mm down (distance/duration tasks)
13mm up/9mm down (speed task)
12mm up both, full crow
3mm down both - mixed with flaps for duration
6mm max - down both with flaps for start (winch launch)

Flaps
14mm max down both for start (winch launch)
3mm down both for duration
24mm down both, full crow
4mm down both - snap flap at full up elevator
neutral - speed task

Some of these are superfluous for initial flights. These, of course, are general settings from which fine-tuning can be done to suit personal preferences in aircraft response. Hopefully from these you can get a good, basic set-up to maiden from.

John