QQ 102 Electric

[McFlymaster]

Hi folks -- Im getting ready to start building a QQ 102 YAK electric. Its been done before, but I am looking forward to my own experience with this super plane as an electric build.

I will be using a hacker A150 and the master 220 esc as the basic power system. Still trying to decide what batt configs to use. Will be going for a 14 cell setup. Not a lot on the market in 7 cells from what I can see.

Anyway. I'll post pics as I go. I am working in abroad at the moment and my work shop is in NC, so it will probably take me a little while to complete as I travel back and forth, but I will show progress I go.

My son tells me the garage is filled with boxes so I know the plane, motor and ESC have arrived.

If anybody has done anythng with an A150 and can advise on experience with 14 cell battery setups I would be obliged.

dan

[jason H]

Arrrr lovely, lots 'n' lots of pixs please...

[McFlymaster]

I'll see if I can get my son to empty some boxes and post a few pictures before I get back. I haven't seen any of the pieces myself just yet. Wife says the boxes are big...

[McFlymaster]

In the mean time, here are some pix of a 3DHS Katana we built a couple of months ago. The QQ will defintely not fit in the front hallway the way the kat does....just barely fits at 85 in.

[McFlymaster]

Here is a shot of the very first qq plane we built....death slide into the earth....

[DaveKan]

Hello McFlymaster
I have started to build QQ 102 III also. I will be using Plettenberg 37/6
motor. the motor has 170rpm/v, about the same as Hacker A-150.
I will be using 14s 2p with TP Extreame 5000 cells. It is a bit of a pain
that they don't have 7s cells, lets hope that will change soon. I have 4
6s and two 2s cells. For servoes I'm using 6 Futaba S9156, and 1 JR 8711
for the rudder. I will be using Futaba 12z radio with 2.4 Fasst system.
I have Mejzlik 27x12 TH, 28x10, 28x12, 29x10, and 29x12 props, that
I will test soon.
The AUW will be 29.3 lbs

Dave :)

[YakkityYak55]

As requested from my dad i took some pictures of our brand ney QQ Yak 54 102"

In the picture with the motor you will also see a hacker A-60 in a cage next to the A-150. The A-60 powers the katana my dad mentioned earlier. What do you think the A-150 will do?

Sincerly Yakkityyak

[YakkityYak55]

And at my dads request, the yak, the geebee, and the jet.

Also we fixed the little yak, well we didnt, the apple company did.


Sincerly Yakkityyak

[McFlymaster]

Hi Dave --

How do you have 4 6 cells and 2 2 cells connected to make 14 cells?

6 cell packs 2 each in series and then in parallel gets 12 cells and then the last 2 cells in series I guess? I guess as long as everything is the same mah it all works OK??

What are you using to charge?

I have a hyperion evo duo which I haven't used too much yet, but I think it pegs at 10 cells. Don't think I can charge 2 6 cells at the same time.

I am also thinking that I will go with a Honda generator rather than several marine batteries for the power source at the field.

I also have a katana 85 in which I am flying with a 12 cell setup, either 3x4 cell maxxamp 5000 or 2x 6cell tp 5000.

I will be going with hitec servos, I think. Also using a DX7 and AR9100 for reciever and transmitter. Have had good luck with this setup for a while with lots of planes.

I will be interested in your progress as you go.

I will post as I make progress.

happy flying.

dan

[DaveKan]

Hello McFlymaster
The cells are conected 6+6+2 in series to make 14s, then the other set
is also done 6+6+2, it is then put in parallel with the othe pack.
For charging I have 2 TP 1010c chargers.
I will post some pictures, and data soon.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Got it. This is reasonably good news for me as I already have two TP 6 cell extreme v2s which I use for my Katana. So, all I need are two more TP 6 cells and two 2 cells at the same mah and I have it. I guess I will probably not be flying two full sets...

Nothing like the arc these things give off when you connect them to the ESC. I am told that there is some sort of arc suppression on the master ESC provided one wires things up correctly.

What, if anything are you using anything to measure amps and watts with this setup? I don't think my current wattmeter is up to the numbers we're gonna see with these setups.

dan

[DaveKan]

Hello McFlymaster

I have for now a Spin 200. It has anti spark wire that works well. There is no spark with this feature.
The Jeti box has a data logger built in. It can measure volts, amps, rpm, and
time of event.
I'm thinking of getting Schulze Future XXL40.300 ESC. It has much better
data logger, and 300 amp capability. It also has automatic timing that changes on the fly, depending on the load. It should be available soon.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Hi Dave -- How many minutes are you expecting to get with this battery configuration? I read 10000mah at 14 cells right? Would seem to be plenty for at least 10 mins of basic acro and may be between 5 and 10 for 3d??

Where are you in your build?

I'm hoping to get started this next weekend, provided I'm not out flying.

Regards,
Dan

[Jocke]

Nice build, will be interesting to follow!

[McFlymaster]

By the way, the guy over on the Pitts Python thread is claiming 10k watts on the the very same power setup, so we must be undercalling it over here on the QQ Yak thread...I was expecting 8k, looking forward to 10k!!

[DaveKan]

Yes, Thats what i'm talking about. The plane with servos, receiver, and
2 Fromeco 2300 packs, with duel battery system weighs in at 16.4 lbs.
Add your motor, batteries and controller. That will be your final weight.
The above is also with mejzlik 28X12 prop and 4,5" CF spinner, and
CF landing gear.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Dave -- what are you thinking in terms of watts/lb with your setup? At 30 lbs it is sounding like 300 plus watts per pound which is a beast indeed.

When do you think you'll be testing props? I've now got all my setup other than a prop choice at the moment and I will follow your steer on props if you are doing the math.

I've gone with HITEC 5955s all around. Cant decide if I need 2 on the rudder or not, but I bought enough to do 2 if I need to.

I'm also going 1.5in Air Wild servo arms all around for control surfaces. Also going Air Wild 3in offset servo arm for pull pull on rudder.

Am also going spektrum AR9100 4 reciever setup which has worked well for me in the past. Will end up with 2 1500 mah 2 cells as servo power with this setup...good for at least 5 flights, probably more like seven or eight.

Maybe will be doing some building this weekend and will send pix if I do.

If the weather is good I will be flying my big Katana as well.

dan

[DaveKan]

Dave -- what are you thinking in terms of watts/lb with your setup? At 30 lbs it is sounding like 300 plus watts per pound which is a beast indeed.

When do you think you'll be testing props? I've now got all my setup other than a prop choice at the moment and I will follow your steer on props if you are doing the math.

I've gone with HITEC 5955s all around. Cant decide if I need 2 on the rudder or not, but I bought enough to do 2 if I need to.

I'm also going 1.5in Air Wild servo arms all around for control surfaces. Also going Air Wild 3in offset servo arm for pull pull on rudder.

Am also going spektrum AR9100 4 reciever setup which has worked well for me in the past. Will end up with 2 1500 mah 2 cells as servo power with this setup...good for at least 5 flights, probably more like seven or eight.

Maybe will be doing some building this weekend and will send pix if I do.

If the weather is good I will be flying my big Katana as well.

dan

Hello McFlymaster
I would contact Troy Built Models to see if they think 1 or two servos is O.K.
on your rudder. The manual says min 500 oz, but many are using 1 JR 8711
on that plane with sucess. I may spin Mejzlik 27X12 this week, but I have
been very busy with other stuff. I think the plane will fly well with 7000 watts.
It will be balistic with 10,000 watts. As long as you are very carfull with
the charge of your reciever batterys it is O.K.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Sounds like I'll be ganging two for 600+ oz., otherwise I'll be at 333 which is probably a little undersized for a recommended 500 oz. pull pull. Anyway, I shall see how it goes. dan

[McFlymaster]

Here is a dry fit picture of the QQ on the bench in the shop.

[McFlymaster]

Anybody wired up a SPIN 220? Are there special connectors anyone would recommend to handle 3 (ea.) battery wires and 2 (ea.) motor wires???

I've attached a picture of the battery side wiring, which I think makes sense, but I am not sure about the C1 connection. I think C2 and C3 can be deans but if anybody has advice regarding other connections types which are robust and easy to work with I am interested.

[McFlymaster]

Ok. Build begun. Some background details first.

Purchased direct from somenzini.com, courteous staff as always. Arrived in about 5 business days in three boxes. One really big box about 6 feet (or more) long, one flat box and one small box containing the dubro hardware which I would recommend ordering as well.

Everything was well packaged and no issues after inspection of all contents.

My son inventoried everything for me as I was away for a few weeks so my first task was to load things up into a polaris and drive it all out to my shop which is above our barn about 100 yards from the house.

After I got my bench cleared and a number of other "in progress" models sorted out I got started.

First thing I did was notionally install the gear so that I could work on the fuse easily.

I then followed the instructions, loaded up some new blades and began cutting away skin at the designated openings. As always I am amazed at the speed at which xacto knives get dull. It took me three blades, which is worth it to get the cleanest cuts possible.

Since it was raining today, I went ahead and got started on the first job, setting up the elevator stabs. First task is installing the counter rotation pins. Everything is clearly packaged and marked, exactly the same as the 49 in. Yak we built earlier this year. Same package labeling technique on this model as well.

I followed the instructions and epoxied the pins to the inner rib and CA'd to the outer rib with thick CA. No issues.

Next step is installing the bolts for the control horns on all surfaces. This is where a dremel tool is extremely handy as you have to cut the heads off of six bolts in this process. My dremel battery died on this step and I got my hack saw out, but decided to recharge my dremel since I'd have to really clamp down with the vise to be able to use the hacksaw and I didn't want to risk stripping the bolts....oh well...do the ailerons later

In QQs pix in the manual he appears to be building slightly out of order so I figure it is OK for me too.

Cut the elevator bolts and installed as directed. I used 5 min epoxy with no issues, however, make sure you've got the denatured alcohol ready to clean excess epoxy which wants to ooze out as the bolts are pushed in.

Rudder control horn installation was a snap and the dubro hardware is very high quality for this job. No issues.

Skipped ailerons for now and moved onto hinges.

Used lots of vaseline on the pins and joints first. Good to have a 13 year old around to help with this step. I used 30 minute epoxy for this job and would not recommend anything which dries much faster than this. Again, make sure you have a stack of rags or paper towels with lots of denatured alcohol to clean up excess as you go. For me, keeping my hands clean is the biggest issue. I have lots of models with epoxy finger prints on the surfaces and I am determined not to have this happen on this build.

I hinged the static side of all controls and called it a night.

Pictures attached.

[McFlymaster]

A few big questions as I go which I've not worked out just yet...

1 - Firewall mounting diagram for an A150. How to decide where to drill holes...can I use the provided DA 100 diagram and cheat using this? If I assume that a DA 150 diagram has the prop shaft at the center then I can work it out...

2 - Standoffs for an A150 -- how many inches from firewall is correct for A150 standoffs and what standoff hardware should I use? Will I need to make an intermediate firewall and then install standoffs.

3 - Matchboxes or not. Should I get a matchbox for the elevator (1), ailerons (2), and rudder (1), or should I get a HITEC servo programmer and attempt to program the servos? What are pros and cons?

4 - Prop size and pitch. What is the best pattern prop and what is the best 3D prop for this setup? At 50-70 bucks a piece it is expensive to experiment with MJs.

5 - Current measuring. It would be nice to be able to use an external device to measure amp draw without having to download to a PC...is there a way to do this? Does anyone make an ammeter which works in this setting?

6 - Connections and soldering. See diagrams. I am still pondering the ideal way to connect the motor to the ESC and also reduce 3 wire connections to 2, etc. It is tempting to simply use small pieces of copper as a bus bar and solder to this, however, someone must make connectors which make this simpler.

[karl k]

5 - Current measuring. It would be nice to be able to use an external device to measure amp draw without having to download to a PC...is there a way to do this? Does anyone make an ammeter which works in this setting?


Doesn't the SPIN controller hook up to the spin box to give you current readings?

Karl

[McFlymaster]

You are correct....just found it. About 40 bucks for one. I guess the other challenge is that the inline types of devices aren't as useful with the parallel battery ports on the SPIN. So once one invests in the SPIN might as well also go for the accessories. Thanks. dan

[McFlymaster]

Build going pretty well.

Status today.

Bought an AR9100 on sale for 180.00 which was a good deal I think. Also bought 4 JR matchboxes to control ailerons, rudder and elevator servos. These are expensive items and I am thinking that using a hitec programmer might be the better way to go. I bought this equipment from K/C Hobby in Archdale N.C.

I am using 2x 2s 1500 mah eflite batteries for the AR9100 which I am swapping between planes as needed.

I used the motor mount picture from the original 2007 QQ 102 electric thread to determine that the standoffs are about 2.8 inches, which isn't standard. Could be that I've not taken the measurements exactly right from the pic.

I've gone ahead and purchased the DA 150 3 in standoffs from Chief RC, and also the PFmfg combination standoffs to create a 2.75 in option as well. One of these should work OK. I might also use a sheet of 3mm carbon on the firewall to make it more stout and maybe also make up the distance needed if I go with the 2.75 in standoffs.

From RCToys, I've ordered 2 TP extreme 6s 5000 mah V2s and a2 TP 2s 5000 mah V2s to go along with the 2 six cells I already own, making my battery setup now complete. I've also ordered two deans 3x series connectors for the battery configuration I will be using.

I've also ordered an MJ 28x10 prop and DA 150-200 drill jig from Chief Aircraft.

I've now got just about everything I need to finish, with a lot of spare parts in the shop to make up for the missing items.

Build Work

I did the moving surface hinging for all surfaces this evening, again using 30 minute epoxy and making sure that I had the hinges covered with vaseline at the hinge points. No problems here, all surfaces now hinged. Hinging is a two man job, I think, one person installing and the other making hinge adjustments as you go, especially for the ailerons, otherwise you need to use your nose to tap the hinges and get them to settle into the slots...

I am also thinking that I'd ignore the bolt lengths suggested in the manual and simply cut off the bolt heads at the very top. I'd then go ahead and get the wings sorted out and only then make final length adjustments with my dremel after the servos, arms and horns are installed. The inboard aileron bolt at 1 in. seems a little short, and the outboard bolt at 1.25 in. seems a little long.

I also installed the matchbox on the right aileron and bound my AR9100 with my DX7. No issues following matchbox instructions. No binding and servos working together without any audible binding. One nice thing about digital servos is that they will tell you if they are fighting each other via loud digital screetching. Still some work to do at the end points.

I also installed the tailwheel. I struggled getting the carbon fiber mount installed as the drill holes on the tail wheel mount don't quite match the blind nut setup on the fuse. I backed it all out and made the center hole on the carbon fiber a little bigger and it went in fine.

I managed to strip the tiny hex bolt holding the tail wheel pin in place, forcing me to improvise and use a 6-32 bolt as a replacement. Is it just me or do all tiny hex bolts used for tail wheels, axels and other special applications strip with almost no effort? I seem to strip them every time.

I used servo extenions on the wings. 3 feet works well to the outboard and 2 feet is more than enough for the inboard servo.

Will press on tomorrow.

I took a lot of pictures but my son has put the camera somplace I can't find right now so pix will follow tomorrow....

[McFlymaster]

Strugglin with solder connections on the motor side of the Jeti...was using a small square piece of copper as a solder base to connect both wires and the cannon plug to, but am bailing out on this.

Motor wires are fine, the male end of the cannon plug fits fine here. JETI side has two wires for each of the three phase connections which must somehow make their way into the back side of a female cannon.

Am going to try an alternate tactic and see if I can weave the wires together into one wire and then get this wire to solder into the cannon plug like a single wire...

Aaaargh, soldering aint my strong suit.

[FidlerEd]

Hi Dan,

Lots of flux and a big iron usually works for me !

John

[McFlymaster]

I am tempted to use the word flux in ways which would get me thrown out of here. Bad day on the soldering iron. Twon months ago I did a bad job on a castle 110 on my katana 85 and hacker setup and ended up having to dead stick my second flight from takeoff climb because the connector cracked...bubbles or air pockets in the solder.

So, I really really want solid connections on this build....to much plane to not get this aspect perfect.

I am still working on it.

Installed QQ wheels today...not a lot of progress...at least an hour at the soldering station with nothing to show...

Re-installed wheel pants on Katana today with a stouter setup. Went out last night and flew the kat a couple of times. Had a good time. Weather perfect. No wind at all at the field, which seems rare so far this spring. Wheel pants were hanging down by the time I was done.

Flew some knife edge and have now realized why I need to use a neck strap. Hard to hold the transmitter and work controls with precision.

I now have 3 sets of 12s combinations to work with since I've got more batteries for the QQ build. This will let me fly the kat at least 3 times an hour which is nice.

More updates to come.

dan

[McFlymaster]

Small success with the male cannon plugs on the motor side. However, I am expert with this type of solder work....its two and three heavy gauge together that I can't handle.

Pix attached.

I think I've worked out the correct firewall mount pattern for the A150. I've taken the DA100 template and used it. The DA is a slight rectangle at 7 cm wide by 8 cm high. The hacker is a perfect square at 7cm x 7 cm. So, my plan is to stick with the DA width and make small 1/2 cm adjustments to the hight as depicted. This all assumes that the DA pattern center is also the prop center...I hope so.

Making progress.

I've also now got all the batteries I need.

Also showing a picture of the DA 100/150 standoffs I will be using. 72mm in length and I think this will work well. We shall see.

[DaveKan]

I am not sure if you are done with the motor bullet conections, but
from the picture of the motor bullets, you will have to cut back the
heat shrink a bit, with a sharp knife, so that the male bullets can be inserteted to full depth into the feamale part to maximize the contact surface area.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

I am sure you are right Dave. I am still struggling with the ESC side soldering and have now resorted to enlisting some help on this work I'm just not good enough with the soldering iron for the big work. I will definitely have to cut back a little of the shrink on the motor side when I connect.

Good news is that the DA standoffs are nearly perfect and my small 1/2 cm adjustments around the DA 100 template seem perfect as well. Only issue is that the standoffs I ordered were 1/4 in threaded on the firewall end, and all of my hardware is metric, so I had to go to Lowes and get some english unit mounting hardware for the standoffs. I would have preferred using the M6 hex bolts I already have. Next time make sure to order the metric standoffs.

Motor is now mounted solidly. Used lots of thread locker as well for this phase of the project. Pulling 30+ pounds around 3D will generate lots of force and making sure the motor is mounted solidly is critical.

Pixs tomorrow.

dan

[DaveKan]

Looking good. The strange thing I find is that Desert Aircraft lists the
length of the DA-100 as 162.5 mm, or 6.5", but 162.5 mm is 6.398".
Anyways your motor is 114 mm and your stand offs are 72 mm so you
are at 186 mm now. The manual says to use 38.1 mm stand offs with
DA-100, so the final length needed is 200.6 mm or 203.2 mm that happens
to be 8".
I will be machining my motor mount this weekend. My motor is only 84.5 mm
front to back, so my mount will be longer, how much I dont't know because
of the conflicting numbers above.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

I can't find anything in the QQ manual which describes the correct prop distance from the firewall, so I took a digital snapshot of the image on the original QQ102 electric build from last year, printed it out and extrapolated with my engineering rulers. I came up with 72 mm for the standoffs in that picture, and my standoffs are 75mm, I think, so I might be a tad further out.

I've come up with about 190mm from the firewall which looks about right on intial cowl dry fit with the motor installed.

I will post a few pix today, but I am having closeup focus issues with my digitail camera and I need a second pair of hands to hold a metric ruler and also take the pictures.

One watch out is that the lower bolts for the motor mount both end up needing material removed from the firewall reinforcements. On the hacker I was able to come up about 5mm from the DA template which made this slightly less of an issue. If one were using the DA 100, you'd basically have to completely remove two small sections of reinforcement against the back of the firewall to get the bolts through. Tight fit.


The other watch out for anyone using the A150 is that the bolt heads on the motor side of the standoff can easily interfere with the motor body. I put it all together and then had to take it all apart and grind the heads down about 30% to create the clearance needed for the motor. You can see this in the motor closeups with the DA mounts.

By the way Dave, if you are machining your own standoffs, then well done. You are in a different league than me. You must have a nice work shop. Maybe someday.

[DaveKan]

I forgot about that build, there are some good photos of that. I guess, in the
end we want the prop to be about 0.625"-0.75" infront of the furthest round
part of the cowl.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Thanks for those numbers Dave...I was not aware of this rule of thumb. I will see where I end up. I am thinking I am more like an inch at the moment. I have another set of slightly shorter standoffs which I could use perhaps.

Anyway, I've had a soldering breakthrough.

I've found some copper wire crimping ferrules which I am using in combination with lots of heat and flux to sort things out. Heat seems to be where my issue was and I'm not used to heating so much wire at the same time. Using a small butane torch and the ferrule technique has cracked it, I think.

Pictures attached.

For soldering novices like me, advice of lots of heat (to the work) and flux is the magic answer.

[lutach]

Awesome idea there.

[mexico]

I have never used a Hacker esc - why does it have so many leads?
The CC esc's I have used always have 3 on the motor side and 2 on the battery side.

[DaveKan]

Hello McFlymaster

The 0.625"-0.75" range is from seeing many of this type of gas planes.
I have not seen it any closer than that.

It is good to see that you got your soldering done, I'M sure that you
are happy about that. One other thing with big solder joints is that
you want a big chisel tip to transfer the heat better.

If you get your cowl on please give me your final over all length from
fire wall to back of prop.

Thanks Dave :)

[Liv2Fly]

Thanks for those numbers Dave...I was not aware of this rule of thumb. I will see where I end up. I am thinking I am more like an inch at the moment. I have another set of slightly shorter standoffs which I could use perhaps.

Anyway, I've had a soldering breakthrough.

I've found some copper wire crimping ferrules which I am using in combination with lots of heat and flux to sort things out. Heat seems to be where my issue was and I'm not used to heating so much wire at the same time. Using a small butane torch and the ferrule technique has cracked it, I think.

Pictures attached.

For soldering novices like me, advice of lots of heat (to the work) and flux is the magic answer.

McFly:

What Brand are those Cutters in the last Pic?

[McFlymaster]

A very productive afternoon.

Once I got the ESC sorted out I was then motivated to get the prop onto the plane so that I could spin it and experience the awe and wonder of 10k watts spinning away in my workshop....so onto the prop.

Meausre twice cut once we all say. I looked at the MJ drill jig last nite, consulted with my son, and we decided that the outer holes on the jig were the right ones. So wrong. The attached pics show me opening the outer holes and ultimately I had to do the inners as well as the A150 prop mount works on the inner holes on the DA drill jig. If I ever get a big DA I'll be ready with this prop.

Once I had the prop sorted, I then installed the cowl. No real issues here however, one big tip I would offer is to skip the part about drawinig a line on the cowl to find the interior cowl standoffs. I just used a really bright spotlight and outlined the shadows on the cowl and put the drill dead center on the shadow. Worked perfectly. Other than that the cowl goes on very nicely provided one works slowly and uses a sharpie to make lots of alignment marks as needed. Alcohol gets the sharpie off when done.

After the prop was on I couldn't resist taking everything out to the driveway and running it up.

First I had to solder leads onto my new batteries and charge up. Having had the epihany of heat and flux (on the work) from the last exercise, I can say that the deans solders I did on these batteries was near perfect. Fast and minimum solder, perfect.

My distance from firewall to prop mount is just about 192 or 193mm. My prop stands off the cowl at about 18mm, or .71 inches at prop center.

The driveway runup was unbelievable. I was at half throttle and could not hold the plane back very well. I did not attempt full throttle. I can't imagine how hard this thing would pull. I was worried about breaking something so I shut it down.

After I did the driveway runup and issued a few Tim "tool time" Taylor grunts I took everything back up into the shop.

By this stage in the build my shop was pretty much a total mess, so I took an hour and cleaned up, sorted out pieces and got ready for next phase.

Once I had all my stuff back in its proper home, I went back to control surface work. Elevators halves were a snap. Matchboxes simple to program and operate. I did use a long piece of piano wire to fish the cables to the tail, but this is easy with a plane this big as one can almost fit ones arm down the fuse to grab the cables. No problems. Elevator hardware is excellent and solid.

Rudder installation consists of ganging servos, if less than 500 oz. per servo and installing pull pull cable. Provided hardware is good, however, the rudder servo arm provided in the box needs some sort of very large nut or washer to make it fit on a hitec servo. I went ahead and used a rudder servo arm I had already purchased specifically for Hitec servos.

The pull pull cable setup is very clean and easy to install. My advice on making the cuts on the cables is to install into rudder first with just a few turns into the rudder horn. Then pull the cable through and again install the servo side arms with just enough turns to get them holding. Then cut the cable at the end of the metal ferrule into which the cable is fitted. This gives you enough cable for the .25 inch recommended fold as well as just about enough threading to tighten things up with some to spare. Worked out well for me.

Thats all I did today.

Am thinking now about how to setup the interior of the plane for battery and electronics....lots of batteries need installing and I will probably have to add some ply or something to make a solid base for the batteries. Still thinking...

dan

[McFlymaster]

By the way the cutters are "GB" or gardner builder...

[McFlymaster]

Tales from the "It could have been worse" file....

This morning I took the Katana out very early for a few flights with the new packs. No wind, sun coming up, perfect flying conditions.

Flights one and two with my new TP packs were fine.

Flight three was a different story, however. I had been up for about 7 minutes or so and was doing one more pass and then setting up to land. Our field has large trees on one approach end and I was about 150 yards from threshold over the trees when the plane suddenly got very sluggish. The tail started to drop and I pushed the nose over to regain speed. The plane accellerated, but I had to feather it over the trees. Once I got over the trees I realized that there was no way I had enough power to make the runway and would need to abort somehow into the tall grass short of the runway.

I put it into a harrier like descent, ultimately turning into a parachute as I now had no power. The plane dropped from about 50 feet, holding wings level and nose just above horizon. it was the best I could do. I lost sight of the plane as it entered the grass, which was about 3-4 feet tall.

I imagined that the plane was splattered, nose off, gear splayed, firewall cracked, etc.

I walked down through the grass, getting completely soaked in the process. To my great surprise, the plane was sitting upright, on its gear in perfect shape. Some mud and grass was up into the wheel pants, but other than some wet grass stuck to the plane and some mud in/on the gear it was fine.

I carried the plane back to the runway and attempted to taxi. It started to roll and then the motor cutoff. I walked the plane all the way back.

Once back I pulled the canopy and here is what I found.

Total battery voltage at 40.5.
Three 4 cell batteries with the following voltages:
Battery 1 - 14.3, Battery 2 - 14.2 and Battery 3 - 12.3 and heavily puffed.

Some more information. I was listening to music and lost track of time on this flight. I also was not using a timer.

So, diagnosis please. Was it me or battery 3, or both.

[McFlymaster]

Getting Close.

Didn't think I'd be working much today, but I did get some time and I worked on how I will be mounting the batteries and ESC. I'm not fully committed just yet, but I used a piece of 3mm composite as a base plate for the ESC and batteries. See pictures.

Can't yet decide how to mount batteries, but I think they will need to be stacked. Ideally I will use something to let air flow through the batteries as they will be generating lots of heat under load. Some sort of plastic structure seems to make sense but I haven't worked out just what to use.

I won't be epoxying down the CF tray until I get a good look at the CG.

I also weighed everything and am coming in at about 32 lbs or so. A little heavier than I expected but am still at 300+ watts per pound...might take a little more runway though.

I also finished the pull pull setup and simply used another 3 inch servo arm for simplicity.

In a real stretch I could possibly be lining up for a maiden tomorrow, but caution will prevail. I head to europe again on Monday for three weeks, so if not tomorrow, then in three weeks.

Pixs show where I am at.

dan

[DaveKan]

Remember to sand the CF plate at the the glue points. The epoxy will
stick better to the plate if it scuffed a bit.
I also think you should not fly the plane till you get back.

Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Good advice Dave. It would be very tempting to rush through the last few steps, but I will not do this. I still need to take my time and seal the wings, install the anti-rotation pins and install the canopy hardware. Then I will do the CG test and see where things have ended up. The batteries and reciever electronics are fitting in nicely, so it seems.

Stil thinking about how to get some air flow through the batteries. I haven't cracked this one just yet, but something that is light and framed in a way that lets one slide the batteries in and then velcro the arrangement down to the CF plate would be ideal.

This morning I took that Katana back out and had three good flights in slightly windy conditions. I was able to get all three maxamps packs back to full charge and I flew a gentle 5 min flight on these packs with no issues, all three packs discharged equally and were still cool upon landing. The EOS charger is nice in that it shows where each cell is at during charging so one can see if there is a bad cell quite easliy.

I do need to learn how to use flaps as I am taking lots of runway with the Katana for landings, and I am certain that the QQ 102 at 32 lbs will want to take a lot more.

dan

[McFlymaster]

I'm on my way back to Switzerland for about 3 weeks, will be back to building on June 5th or so. In the mean time my 102 is on the bench underneath a drop cloth...

In the interim I've ordered the Spin data logger, and also a CF spinner to go with the MJ Prop. I think those are the last items I need to complete the build and monitor what is happening with the power setup.

My list of things good about this build begins here.

Good -

Consistency across the QQ line of products. Instructions, packaging and quality is similar to the very first QQ plane I built and is the same with this kit. These planes are built light and to fly well. The kits are complete and the instructions are accurate. Everything on a QQ plane has a purpose and there is nothing added to the flying weight which is not needed.

The optional hardware is excellent and I would recommend purchasing this, rather than making 3 or 4 trips to the local hobby shop as I would have needed to otherwise.

While not pre-hinged, the hinging was simple and fast work. Hinge slots are correct and required no mods on my part.

The covering is also extremely well done and as much as the QQ color has been out there a while, I still think they are eye catching on the ground and effective in the air.

Probably nothing too special but the cowl mounted quickly and very accurately. The big round YAK cowl with vents is very cool. Well fit to the kit and the colors match perfectly with the covering. Rubber grommets are a nice touch and make for a solid install.

Rudder pull pull setup is solid and dead easy to install.

The canopy is also well constructed and easily and accurately mounted.

In general, all components fit well after a dry fit and minor, if any, adjustments needed.

This plane can be built to acceptable standards by anyone with a few ARFs under his belt. This could even be a first build for someone with the tools and a little patience. For a master builder this kit is quick work. I am somewhere inbetween these levels and I found the kit straightforward and enjoyable to work on. Very few frustrations.

Tricky -

The tricky list is short.

Manual pictures -- I find some of the pictures in the user guide too dark to be useful. In these cases I simply used my computer and used the online PDF file to look at the close ups. Online the images are fine.

Tail gear -- I think I will likely end up replacing the tail gear on this model. The gear and predrills dont match well and the 2 inset screws on the gear strip easily.


Different

Here is what I'd recommend different in this kit.

- Tell the builder the prop distance from firewall. I think I've got it at 192mm, but this was an educated guess.

- A higher quality tail gear setup would be nice.

- Electric -- Now that this kit has been done electric a few times maybe a manual insert for the electric builders out there would be good. A few comments on recommended power, installing batteries and how to create ideal venting and airflow would be useful.

Thats it.

Final comments on the build are that that I really enjoyed this build and would recommend it to anyone from a builders perspective. It will be a month or so from now before I get a chance to fly this plane, however, my expectation is that it will be as solid in the air as it was coming out of the box. I will stay with the thread until I get it up in the air a few times.


I also hope the thread has been useful to other giant scale electric builders an potential builders as well. My son and I tried to include as many pictures at key build moments as we could.

One insight I have taken with electric building is that the key moments getting electrics setup properly are unique to electric -- where and how to mount several pounds of batteries in the fuse, what battery configuration to use and soldering reliable connections are very specific to electric and also critical topics to get right.

Feedback appreciated.

More will follow. See you in three weeks or so.

Dan

[McFlymaster]

Got back from switzerland on Thursday and started working on the final items needed to get ready for a maiden on Sunday.

My final punch list was:

- check CG
- mount battery tray
- complete motor box installation
- make holes for airflow
- install canopy
- install wheel pants
- program rates and expo into radio
- range check


Pics will follow for pertinent steps.

Check CG -- Knowing that I was about to permanently install the battery tray into a non movable position I put everything in place inside the plane, strapped in the batteries, installed the reciever batteries, fit the canopy and did a dry install pre-cg check. I used a sharpie to make the manual suggested front, back and middle marks on the ends of each wingtip. The manual recommends the CG marks to be made out on the wing tips using the trailing edge as the starting point for three marks on each side, front, back and middle.

With the battery tray installed as indicated in the pictures, and all batteries installed my first shot at the CG was almost perfect dead balanced at the middle mark, perhaps slightly nosy in the center. This placement was fine as I am able to use the battery placement to shift the CG from here.

The only trick with CG check is having two people who are strong enough to lift and hold about 15 pounds with one finger, and also keep it steady long enough to observe any movements.

Mounting the battery tray -- having created a CF tray for batteries it was not a big deal to get the tray epoxied into place. There is limited surface area in the plane to get a good hold on the tray so I added reinforcements along the top surface against the inside plywood sidewalls to create more surface to glue to. I could probably have gone with a bolting down method, however, this would have required more reinforcement below the fuse to bolt to securely. In the end I've got the tray epoxied in place and I can pick the plane up by the tray and really shake it around, so I am happy that it is in there good.

The only other issue I had with the battery tray is that it blocks the anti-rotation pins, requiring that I remove a small rectangle of tray on each side so that the cotter pins and washers can be easily placed over the pins as needed.

Completing motor box. The plane comes with additional reinforceing pieces for the corners of the motor box which are easy to install. There is also a top piece for the motor box which must be installed to complete the box installation. Once I had this done I also made some fairly generous openings to encourage as much airflow over the electronics as possible. I will enclose shots of the airholes I went with. Pretty big as I will have lots of batteries and potentially lots of heat on these 100+ degree days we get here in NC.

Install canopy -- I have to say that I am disappointed with this portion of the installation, as you have to make four relatively unsightly holes along the fuse to permit 4 bolts to be used to hold the canopy down. I've also had a general problem getting the canopy tabs aligned as the canopy itself doesn't sit flush against the fuse. Mine seems to have some minor warping. I've only been able to get three of the blind nuts and bolts to mate properly with the factory configuration. I am going to have to mod one of the canopy tabs to get a good fit. I ended up maidening with only three of these in place, which was fine as I'm not doing any 3D at the moment.

Install wheel pants -- After all the wheel pants I leave on the grass at my flying club I've decided to take a pass on these wheel pants at the moment. I will come back to this step in the future. As good as they look I am certain that I will see them dangling from the plane soon enough. I haven't worked out how I want to beef up the installation yet, but I will.

Sunday AM, Load Plane into Car and Take Out to Field -- My wife was using our really big Ford Excursion, so I had to take the tail off and load into my Murano. I can confirm that this plane will fit easily into a Nissan Murano, provided you take the tail off and load it tail first, sliding the tail up to the front and over the shifter. This leaves lots of space for everything else that has to come to the field, including charging equipment, tools and son. I will include a picture of my loaded Murano when I get a chance.

Programming Rates and Expo -- There is an error in the manual for aileron rates, I am sure. The low rates are recommended at something like 3 and 1/4 inches while high rates are something like 3 and 5/8...which seems very odd for low and high rate recommendations for the ailerons. I dialled the low rates back to about 2 inches. Low rates maybe should be a little less than this, perhaps 1 and 3/4 or so. The other recommendations seem sensible.

An issue with the motor start sequence -- I don't know if anyone else has experienced this with large electric setups, however, it is taking me some effort messing with the throttle to get the motor turning over properly. It is tricky to get the prop turning, however, once the prop seems to have overcome startup inertia and motor magnetic field setup it turns fine, provided it keeps turning and isn't let to spin all the way down. The big issue here is that if the prop is permitted to stop while flying it could be the case that I can't get it to start spinning again...at least not for a few seconds. My plan here is to put a throttle curve into the radio which makes the bottom of the throttle equivalent to enough power to keep the motor turning. This creates some challenges with prop management on the ground when working around the plane, however, I can't think of a better plan at the moment. Perhaps there is somehting I can do in the SPIN controller, don't know.

The Maiden Flight -- Sunday at about 9.45 AM. 85 degrees (headed to 100+), clear skys and a few friends around at the club. Light winds and the field was cut.

Lined up on center line into wind, applied 1/3 throttle, went to half and the plane took off smoothly. Got it up to altitude, let go of controls, almost dead on the money. 2 clicks of up, which maybe is due to the fact that I had it setup slightly nosey to start with. Other than that the plane was dead on rails. Kept things very gentle. Put it into a low rate knife edge and it held with minimal rudder input, no coupling detected. Kept the flirst flight short, did a low pass to check approach speed, came back around again and floated a little long and aborted, came back around a second time, setup a little farther out and greased it in.

On the initial flight I never went past half throttle and the plane was agile. Straight and level and well under control was achieved at about 1/3 throttle with no issues. Moving to half the plane noticably jumps forward. Not sure what full throttle will do.

After landing checked batteries and motor for heat. Nothing detected other than ambient temps which were working into 90s. Put packs back on charger and only put about 550 mah back into 5000 mah packs, so I ended up flying for about 4 minutes and only drew down 550 mah which I thought was impressive for this setup.

AUW for this setup is 31.5 pounds.

I did a second flight later in the day, with slightly windier conditions with much the same results. Landing was not as nice as the first one but was still pretty smooth. Flew about 7 minutes but didn't check the batts just yet. Again on this flight I didn't go above half throttle.

This plane is awesome to fly. Initial reaction is that it is very responsive, very stable and solid. The biggest issue I faced was dealing with depth perception as the plane is so much larger than anything else I've been flying. It is much further away than appears, which can be dangerous on approaches over trees and fields, etc. The power is incredible and I am sure it will fly straight up with some pace. I didn't do much with high rates but will do so on next flights.

I am traveling again this week and will go back up next weekend.

I will add final build pix this week and also add some pix in flight. Maybe video if I can get it together.

If anyone has experience with the big SPIN and Hacker setups and knows what I'm talking about with respect to getting the prop spinning I'd appreciate any advice.

dan




dan

[DaveKan]

Hello McFlymaster

Great to here that all went well on your maiden flight. Do you have the
Jeti spin box? You should set the throttle delay to about 2 seconds, and
keep trying the throttle response in small 0.1 second steps until the prop
does what it is ment to do, even from full stop. This may take some time.
Looking forward to more reports. Mine has been going slow because of
other commitments. Perhaps 2 more weeks.
Dave :)

[McFlymaster]

Posting Pictures First...


I've now flown about 7 times with great success. The 102 locks into just about everything I ask of it.

The power system is solid and the 14 cell TP HV setup has taken me to about 8 minutes and finished at low temps and taken about 3000 of 5000 mah, with some room to go.

The electric setup makes a powerfull growling noise at speed and is impressive to listen to.

The plane will fly straight up at 3/4 throttle indefinitely and has unlimited power, it seems.

Snaps at speed at impressive, leaving one to be a little concerned about breaking something as the snaps are very crisp and rapid.

The maiden needed only 2 clicks of up to manage, and I've not added or changed anything since. I am now experimenting with battery placement for cg management.

Knife edge locks in. I think that hovers lock in as well, however I am hovering too high to really be able to tell, but power and stability are not an issue.

I've attached some final build pictures as well as some shots of the other electics hanging in my loft.

I am now starting on a great planes Gee Bee conversion and maybe will start another thread on this one.

See Ya.

McFly.

[BingWing]

This sounds like a great project - one I fear I may follow soon. Biggest I have got so far is a 61` Sebart Sukhoi but check out there website www.sebart.it as they have an much larger one purly for electric !

[alchemique]

Big Wing, try new SU 140 from sebart - GB is flying this bird on just 6s! :)

I would love to see a conversion thread of GeeBee.

[McFlymaster]

Hi Guys -- The QQ 102 project is very doable for sure. Best build I've done. Still working out some small bugs with my setup, but all in all the plane was dialled in from the outset.

The A150 and Spin 220 combination in a 14 cell setup offers excellent power for this setup. I am still waiting to work up the nerve to wall it low and then fly straight up out of it. Based on the way the plane flys upwards at altitude I would guess that it will simply move out and go straight up with no sweat. It will go straight up at less than 3/4 power at the moment. Still a lot to explore.

I will post pix of the Gee Bee conversion on another thread as I go. I am off to Europe again so it will be a few weeks before I get started.

[BingWing]

6s !! Wow... I fly my 61` Su29 on 6s !

[R/C_Addict]

Looks like a great plane. I don't know how you keep the wiring strait though. It looks like spaghetti! :eek:

[alchemique]

You cand find more on this site about this 6s setup : http://www.hepf.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2397

[McFlymaster]

The trick with the wiring is that I've marked the two 3 cell harnesses by putting blue tape on both the batteries and the ESC side for one side of the setup to make sure that I never mismatch anything. As long as I connect blue to blue and the rest to the rest I can't go wrong. Looks worse than it really is. Everything is tight and solid when connected up.

If you navigate backwards in this thread you will eventually find the part of the build where I was getting frustrated with the soldering and electical connections, which I eventually conquered with some innovative connectors and a breakthrough in my appalling soldering technique. As a result of this build I am now an expert solderer!! I Learn something every time.

My goal is to now have a few planes which either run on 6 cell, 12 cell or 14 cell setups so that I can mix and match the batteries and better justify the investments.

I will look into the 6 cell described above.

thanks,
McFly.

[McFlymaster]

WOW -- I just found my next project which meets my criteria for a 6 cell setup. Check this out.

http://www.hobby-lobby.com/geebee-r3.htm?utm_source=cf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=0111

[DaveKan]

I have always liked the Gee Bee.

Dave :)

[davidleitch]

If you navigate backwards in this thread you will eventually find the part of the build where I was getting frustrated with the soldering and electical connections, which I eventually conquered with some innovative connectors and a breakthrough in my appalling soldering technique. As a result of this build I am now an expert solderer!! I Learn something every time.

thanks,
McFly.
I'm no great builder but have done a lot of soldering of batteries and ESCs for high amp setups and for me the main trick is to get a big enough soldering iron.

I am now using 150 watts and no matter how thick the wire its no problem. we used to have to solder 6mm connectors straight onto the back of 3500 nimh cells and you just need a lot of heat to overcome the dissipation and get a strong join.

Of course you also need a small iron for the delicate work.

[McFlymaster]

OK. Been up now probably a dozen times with the QQ 102 electric. Basic report is that the plane has almost unlimited power, I am still finding the boundaries on this setup. Going straight up the plane goes out of site very quickly indeed.

I am still working on the nerve to take it low, and all indications that it will be dead solid low, provided the pilot is dead solid as well....

I have lost tail rudder twice now forcing me into very wobbly landings. The first time it was due to one of the knots "adjusting" in the pull - pull setup, resulting in a very loose cable, the second time was the result of a shear or cut at the nose of the pull - pull ferrule on the rudder, resulting in a flapping cable and rudder. This one was a little more uncontrolled and happened after about 3 laps around the field on a solid high speed knife edge run. This would cause real problems if it happened low...

I am thinking about switching to kevlar pull pull cable --has anyone out there tried this in a large scale setup?

I also inadvertantly fell over while kneeling over the plane and damaged my canopy frame, resulting in one flight where the canopy nearly separated from the plane during flight. Very exciting porpoise action as the canopy was opening and slamming shut....got it down in one piece. Will repair easily.

Big ticket item with this setup is batteries. I have purchased a second 12s 10000mah setup using EVOs, which look nearly identical to the TP Extreme V2s I have been running. The TPs have been solid and have not come down hot yet. First run with the EVOs had them cool to the touch after a 6 minute break in flight. I smoked my dual port 20 amp 12 vdc bench power supply...didn't even touch the fuse, just made a popping sound and let some smoke out...

Charging batteries is now a full time job. I have purchased 2 new 30 amp 12v dc power supplys and will also get a second Hyperion DUO charger. The recharge cycle looks like this:

Starting with balanced packs at approx 4.21 volts per cell...
(first charge 8 6s 5000 mah packs)
- connect 2 TP 6s 5000 mah packs to DUO 1, charge in Synch mode
- connect 2 EVO 6s 5000 mah packs to DUO 2, charge in Synch mode
- REPEAT for second sets, about 40-50 minutes total, depending on discharge
(now charge 4 remaining 2s 5000 mah packs)
- connect 2 TP 2s 5000 mah packs to DUO 1, charge in Synch mode
- connect 2 EVO 2s 5000 mah packs to DUO 2, charge in Synch mode

done
takes about 1 hour 20 minutes to recharge 2 full sets from about 70% discharge.

I could cut the procedure down to about 40 minutes with 2 more DUOs, but this would turn my shop into an electrical sub station.

I also ended up getting the SPIN 220/Hacker A150 start up intertia problem sorted by decreasing the throttle delay from the factory default of 2.5 seconds to 2.0 seconds. This is almost perfect, but it does still stutter start periodically. I will keep tweaking this value.

The trick with the SPIN box is that it needs to be connected to the ESC before the batteries are connected, otherwise it only stays in pulse mode and servo test mode....this was not clear in the instructions.

I also added a 5 in. true turn aluminum spinner which looks awesome. I've not flown with a spinner yet, and I am curious as to how much this will change the CG.

I will post a query on another thread around safety setups for this bird, as it is extremely powerful and I would like to have some sort of battery cutoff installed to keep things safe.

Still having fun.

dan

[McFlymaster]

Ok, this will be the result of limited knowledge on my part, however, does anyone know of a way to truly, physically open the battery circuit with a switch to guarantee that the prop can't turn, no matter what, when the switch is in the off position?

I am using a reciever switch on my AR9100, which seems to do the trick, however, there is something slightly disconcerting about having a 10kW power source sitting right behind a lawnmower blade. If the AR9100 switch is loose on the reciever, then the default setting is "closed circuit". Also, I have seen situations with other electical setups when the motor went full throttle when the transmitter was accidentally turned off, leaving the pilot with an awkward set of options in terms of getting the motor stopped. A hard cutoff would be valuable in these situations.

There must be a true safety cutoff method out there which I can deploy to eliminate this risk.

Any advice appreciated.

dan

[bsipro]

hey dan
check this out http://www.rcuniverse.com/magazine/article_display.cfm?article_id=950
Greg has some good Ideas and he has been on the cutting edge of electric flight

[McFlymaster]

Thanks for the link. This is exactly what I was looking for. There are a couple of good options listed here which I will definitely follow up on.

[McFlymaster]

Ok. So, decided to add flaps to the setup to slow the plane down for landings. Works well on my 85 in. Katana. Flying yesterday and added flaps on the QQ. While turning onto final, plane goes into stall and spin, can't recover.

Plane is several hundred yards away, but from the loud boom noise it is clear that the plane penetrated the forest canopy and made it to the ground at high speed.

The crash site is bad, by the time I get there the flames are 4 feet high and a tree is on fire. Other flyers from the club bring fire extinguishers to put out the flames.

There is almost nothing left at all. Lipos burn so hot that the only evidence of the plane is the motor. Everything else is incinerated....completely.

Here is a picture of the motor and prop. All the rest was completely incinerated, I am not kidding. Servos melted, servo arms melted, all electronics melted, no evidence of wings, no fuse, no canopy, just a big black burned out spot on the ground.

I have pictures on my phone which I will add to the post if I can get them downloaded.

Time to start thinking bout a new biuld.

dan

[BingWing]

OH NO !!!!!!!!! I was follow the development of you QQ 102 from day one and was really inspired so much so that I have one on order that I will power with a Hacker. Such a shame. Whist retrospect is such a pointless emotion I bet you wish you had tried to deploy flaps up high and over head prior to dropping them for the first time on finals ! I always test flap setting like this prior to using them in the circut.

What do you think actually caused the fire ? I have never seen a fire from an e-powered plane.... it must of hit really hard ! So sorry mate.

[McFlymaster]

Well....I did deploy the flaps overhead a few times before I made the turn to final...Actually I had deployed them a week earlier and all I was doing on this flight was getting them dialled in.

BUT, I think I was slow and I think I should have been using a servo delay to slow them as they deployed...total pilot error, nothing less. Nose dropped and I was basically screwed at that point. I turned them off and tried to power out, but I was in the trees before I could recover.

Regarding the fire, 14 cells hitting the gound at high speed creates a strong chance for lipo fire, which all I can say is that this fire must have been burning very hot indeed. I arrived at the crash site about 10 minutes after the crash and there was literally almost nothing left at all, just a burning tree and a big black spot.

Anyway, I will build again. QQ has a generation IV version and also has a new 101 in. version which both look cool.

I would build if I were you, it is/was an awsome plane. I will be up again .

dan

[R/C_Addict]

Wow, I'm so sorry to hear about the crash. But like all things in this hobby, if you can't fix it, you can always buy a new one. :)

[BingWing]

Wow Dan ! It takes a great pilot to admit they were at fault ! You will only became better at what you do and are clearly already a great pilot so don't worry to much - Post a new link of your V2 version and I bet it will be even better the second time around. I may even beat you to it ! All the best from Australia mate.

[DaveKan]

This is horrible news. That must have been a very intense fire.
I have only seen small 2s packs on fire on Youtube, and such.
I hope this does not discourage any future planes you may build.

Dave :(

[McFlymaster]

I am not deterred...I am sure everyone on this thread realises that if you build it to fly it then there is always a chance that you can crash it!!! I was on a good run, not having crashed anything in months...oh well...

I certainly learned a lot with this build and will be able to take this forward on the next.

Bigwing -- I am traveling to Aus in a few weeks on business and I will send you a PM if I get into Sydney. I think I am going to Melbourne but I have a stellar blackjack record at Star City in Darling Harbour, so I might head over that way as well.

Anyway, thanks for the sentiments. All I am trying to decide now is which 35% I go for next. I have a range of projects running at the moment. Still working on my electric conversion Gee Bee. My son and I are also having fun hopping up a storm launcher into a dual brushless, split elevon speed demon. (yes, this is an air hog...)

Dave -- where are you with your build?? Have you been up yet?

dan

[DaveKan]

Hello Mcflymaster
I have been very busy with work, and other hobbies. In rc planes I'm also
building QQ yak 69", and 86". Both will be insane. The 102" is ready, and
I may take it up soon. The little 69" has perhaps 300 watts per pound.
It will be ready any day now.
I realy think I should have only one hobby, so I could have my priorities
straight.

Dave :)

[sun.flyer]

WoW sorry for your loss. :(

Definately hate to see such an event as this.

Tim

[txfly]

dang, at least there wasnt much to carry back. i hate trying to collect all that balsa and stuff- no, seriously -sorry to see that happen

[appleflyer]

wow i cant believe that motor, i didn't think li-pos burned that much but i new li-pos burned. im glad im using A123s in my 32% scale electric;)

[McFlymaster]

Well, all sentiments accepted and appreciated. I still cringe a little each day.

Here are the thoughts I've had since the crash:

Thought 1 - At least there wasn't a lot to carry back.
Thought 2 - It would have been much more entertaining if it had come down in the center of the runway in full view, not in the woods. The boom and fire were too impressive to miss.
Thought 3 - Never ever fly near houses (or anything) with electric setups of this size.
Thought 4 - I still can't believe that so many metal parts are simply missing.
Thought 5 - I hope that electric cars are safer than this in crashes.
Thought 6 - I am thinking that less throttle delay on the JETI might have helped. It was in at 1.5 seconds.
Thought 7 - I wonder if a gas setup would have burned this way.
Thought 8 - You just can't have too many fire extinguishers at the flying field.
Thought 9 - That old ultrastick sure is a good flyer...

more thoughts appreciated....

I am moving now onto a Hangar 9 85cc Sukhoi....I will run a build thread as I go.

dan

[BingWing]

Ha ha - love your attitude to crashing - the last time I crashed was a good 18 month ago and to be totally honest.... I spat the dummy, shouted , swore , and the almost cried so you have handled it with grace my friend !!

Star city ! Well you are in luck as I live right next door so come over for a beer and I can show you my hanger. PM sent

[HPIAdam]

oh my god! thats crazy!

[McFlymaster]

does anybody know what has happened to Que Que's web site? I can't find it and I am wanting to start another project....

[KatManDEW]

does anybody know what has happened to Que Que's web site? I can't find it and I am wanting to start another project....

The story I heard is that he went out of business. He is endorsing/designing or whatever, planes for Whorizon, but Quique's business as it was, is no more.

[price200]

He is out of the manufacturing business ...

Cheif Aircraft has picked up some of the line though ....

http://www.chiefaircraft.com/cgi-bin/rcm/hazel.cgi/hzpi/u/HzSt0205CIc21Mf2iP/hazel.cgi?action=serve&item=/Models/PowerAirplanes/Somenzini/SOMYAK-544.html

They are selling the 101" Yak ....

Jeff