What Reversible speed controller?

[george n]

HI
Just got this motor which I plan to put into a tug, its brushless and operates 6 to 30 volts, what reversible speed conroller should I use, can I use a normal ESC like an viper marine and if so what ampage.
Regards George

[frankg]

:) GEORGE N- In looking at the picture of the motor you posted , it looks as though the motor is a brush type motor, not brushless, which has three wires coming out of the case. Now if the motor you have truly has no brushes than it is a shade pole motor, and will not have the start up torque need for a marine application. You might want to check out the type of motor and the specs before you rush out to buy a speed control. :)

[toesup]

HI
Just got this motor which I plan to put into a tug, its brushless and operates 6 to 30 volts, what reversible speed conroller should I use, can I use a normal ESC like an viper marine and if so what ampage.

Hi George
I would have to agree with Frank, it doesnt look like a brushless motor to me either.
If its not a brushless motor and is brushed, a viper marine ESC should be fine to control it @ 12v. What RPM does it give you at 12v?.
How big a tug are you planning on putting it in to?.... with what size prop?

[george n]

Hi Guys I was told it was brushless, so I took it to bits and your right its got brushes, tug I am going to try to put it in is 32" in length, prop 2" to 2.5", not measured the speed at 12v but with that size prop should be OK but saying that is there no speed controllers that will run on 24V. the motor was advertised as a tug towing motor and when I put it on the 12v battery to test gave a decent kick on startup. on the ESC front what ampage do you suggest.
Regards George

[toesup]

Harbour Models carries the 'Electronize' ESC's that will take up to 24 volts with a 30 amp continuous load rating.
http://www.harbormodels.com/site08/main_pages/speed_controls.htm
(bottom of the page)

[frankg]

:) GEORGE N- I still would like to know more about that motor. It looks like a motor I have seen in the surplus stores. Check what kind of bearings it has in it. The motor I am thinking of has no bearings or bushings in it, and has a cast aluminum end bells. It was made for intermittent duty, and will give you trouble down the road with the motor overheating and the shaft seizing. I know that everyone is trying to save a buck today in today’s world, but power and running hardware should not be going the cheap route. Nine times out of ten it will come back and bite you in the butt, after you have put the time and effort into the build. :)

[waboats]

Looks to me like a similar motor (Brushed) that I pulled from a disused Motorised Golf Buggy a few years back.

Specs are about the same..

Tested on Bench at 2500 & 1500rpm @ source which gave a reading of 267.67kv which @ 12v RPM is a little over 3200.

Had it in a Largish Tug with a 100mm Prop (approx 4" imperial).. Pulled around a large heavy barge 200kg, low drain, No Gearing direct drive. Sorry no photos.. Long since gone to a new home.

Used 30amp Electronize and never even got close to blowing anything.

Worth testing to see what you get in the way of output on the bench. Good luck trying to stall the beast..

Make sure you select a good Fuse rating in the line..

[nick_75au]

I have a similar motor It has a part no of MY6812, Mine is 24 volt 100 watt (5 amp) rated, all of these motors are rated at 100 to 200 watt, but can have voltages of 12 - 24 volt. They can be had out of the scooters and as waboats says motorised golf buggy's. They spin at around 2400 rpm at rated voltage so work well with largish brass props from Rivabo or Rabosech? Your prop size is about right. I guarantee that you will pull more amps than the 5 amps its rated for probably closer to 15 maybe 20 with a big prop. The Electronize will handle it no problem, Vantecs are excellent as well. Probably wont be a problem but as they have no cooling holes, it would pay to monitor the temperature once you start using it. if after 15 minutes of hard running you can hold your hand on the case then it will be fine.

http://www.cn-dcmotors.com/product12.asp
This link has specifications of all the different flavours of this motor

Regards
Nick

[george n]

HI Guys
Thanks for all the advice, I will bench test it at 12 and 24 volts to see what it gives and then make the choice then, I have put another pic of it in bits so you can see it has bearings and bushes, but this motor will have to wait to go into a boat as Ive got a SS Talacre to build first, I only bought the motor as I thought it was cheap and Ive got a tug hull lying around, the bearing is stamped HHOXXI Z809.
Regards george

[green-boat]

Well at least it's got ball bearings and it's a multi-pole motor.

[Massey]

Looks like it will be a good motor for torque. but not much on the RPMs. Sounds like the right combo for a tug. Remember when choosing an ESC to pick one that is rated at least 25% higher than the motor you will be using. If the motor will have a stall current of 10 amps then get an ESC rated at least 13 amps. Stall current is not the same as free running current or load current.
Free Running is just that no resistance on the motor.
Load current is the motor running with the weight of the boat in the water with the prop submerged.
Stall current is the motor at full power with the prop stalled or held in place.

Stall current will be the highest draw on an ESC and while not something that happens alot, but winding up your tow line or getting stuck in the weeds does happen and you want to make sure that stalling the prop for a few seconds does not fry the esc, thus the 25% higher rated ESC.
For that motor I would think that a Viper Marine 20 or 30 would be just fine.

Hope this helps.
Massey

[waboats]

http://www.cn-dcmotors.com/product12.asp
This link has specifications of all the different flavours of this motor

Regards
Nick

Nick

Thanks for teh Link..

Yep this is a link to these motors. Mine was a 6310 & looking at the Open Can it looks the same specs as mine. 9 Poles from what I can see?

Interesting the Specs for 12v & 24v are listed as the same.

I would run on 12V just for convenience sake.

[nick_75au]

If you used stall current for ESC's on 700 motors and even 540 can motors the ESC would be huge, the stall current can be over 100 amps on a 700 can motor yet an Electonize 30 amp ESC will run one all day, better advise is to fuse the input of the ESC to somewhat somewhat below its maximum rating, the best advise is to put a fuse in just over the measured normal running current of the motor and have the fuse pop if the motor does stall or get tangled in weed.
Regards
Nick

[timo2]

Hi George n

The old wizard ( David at ACTion ) in the black arts of -/+ has a new bit of h/duty kit. P94 control unit to suit MFA850 motors to be out May 08 check out web-site for details, http://www.action-electronics.co.uk

Timo2

PS The P93 works great in a springer with 12v batteries and 540 motor running at 6v . :)

[george n]

Thanks for all the info and replys just got to get the fury tug finished, start and finish the ss Talacre then I can try to shoe horn this motor with everything else into a 32" tug hull, then I think it will be a tanker from a spare Talacre hull I have, where did these all come from. OH neally forgot put lights into my SUN XX1 Tug. 9 months ago I didnt own any boats, this bug bites hard.
Regards George

[Massey]

If you used stall current for ESC's on 700 motors and even 540 can motors the ESC would be huge, the stall current can be over 100 amps on a 700 can motor yet an Electonize 30 amp ESC will run one all day, better advise is to fuse the input of the ESC to somewhat somewhat below its maximum rating, the best advise is to put a fuse in just over the measured normal running current of the motor and have the fuse pop if the motor does stall or get tangled in weed.
Regards
Nick

On 3 pole motors and low wound motors like 540 type usually are, yes the stall current is extremly high. This is due to the low number of winds in the poles that do not generate much resisitance. Higher resistance motors such as this one would not generate as much current stalled because some of the current would be absorbed in the resistance of the pole windings. I agree that a fuse is a safe way to go in any means. Put it on the + side. Voltage flows to the negitive but current flows to the positive so in forward the + side of the ESC carries the majority of the current load.

Massey