scaling up a 3 view wing area to weight ? power ?

[garrcass]

i am going to scale up a mooney mite and i dont know how to figure out what size to do it i can figure out the weight of my power system and the thrust but how do i figure out how much wing area i need i have a missing variable any help would be apricheated <spelling ?

[slipstick]

Look at other models using similar power systems and similar construction techniques. Make it about the same size as them.

Life doesn't have to be complicated ;).

Steve

[vintage1]

Generally reckon on weight and power going up as the cube of the linear scale.

wing loading goes up as the power of 3/2. Stall speed as power of 3/4 IIRC.

[coosbaylumber]

As for the Mooney Mite, there must be more than a dozen kit and plans available right now dating from when it was in production until the reviews and formation of that club in Central California. One member made the One-0ff M-19, but in RCAF markings.

An overly popular model. But I notice that each one has thinner fuselage near the tail section and they lengthen it just a bit also. Zero of which use a for real airfoil (most are of some variant of a flat bottom) and the incidence angle is set way up there on each model. As for trying to copy off any of the plans from Texas, I would think forget it. For a dozen modelers before you have already pointed the original don't scale down well. I copied the Jetco version years ago, and it flies like a rocket, and it bears little resemblance to the real outlines.

Wm.

[eflightray]

What I do if I want to scale up a 3-view, is print it out on to graph paper, (instead of blank paper). I may take a few tries to get the sort of size ratio to squares I want, (usually by a bit of manipulation in the 'print preview', stretching a corner and trying again), but I then have a an A4 size 'plan' on graph paper.

Then it's out with a roll of wall paper, (the backing paper), draw a grid at the size I want and start counting and marking out the lines.

I must admit I never draw a proper plan, just the basic outline and where any ribs/formers will go.

I always have some graph paper handy, (metric or imperial), it doesn't have to be specifically for a printer, just about any graph paper will do.

[garrcass]

vintage1 could you elaborate in laymans terms like i have a 20 oz powersystem i have a 15 oz all up weght i need ? surface area lets just figure the wing loading of a flat plate to make it easy or what if i have a 1-to-1 power to weight how much area do i need isint there a forumula or somthing eflightray i wish i could work like that but i had to go to kinkos just to print out my 3 views so i am stuck finding out what my power sysytem puts out the weight of my components and then finding a scale like 1mm on 3view to 1 cm on larger paper but i need to know how much wing area i need to get in the ballpark so i know what scale i need to do it in whats wrong with a overly popular model ? you saying youve never built a mustang corsair a cub a jug ? this 3 view is form mooney aircraft INC. airport p.o. box 3012 Wichita Kansas and as far as keeping it to scale i am not trying to make it perfect i just want to scale up a flying plane on my own thereby expanding my modeling skills and i couldint seem to find a 3 view of a cessna aerobat and the spruce goose would have taken too long for my short attension span and i figured i should just start with a taperd dehedral wing insted of juping into a gull wing corsair are those overpopular models to ? thanks guys

[lvspark]

This is easy for figuring weight vs wing area vs loading http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/eflight/calcs_wingload.htm

To scale up a 3 view, I have printed out the 3 view on a transparancy sheet and put it on an overhead projector. With a big paper on the wall (coroplast in my case) just slide the projector closer of further from the wall to scale it up as you need, then trace the lines..

If you have a paper 3 view you can goto a copy store and have them scan it and print out an enlargement at the scale you want. Don't know about any copyright isses with that, but for personal use, should be fine..

[BMatthews]

Generally for a sportflying model you want to run around 70 to 80 watts per lb of model. So figure out what your motor can safely put out without overheating and calculate the watts. That's watts= pack volatage x amps drawn from the pack by the motor. So you'll need to know what prop you're using and how much that prop will make the motor pull from the battery pack.

Once you know what your motor is rated for and how close you want to run it to the limit (it'll get darned hot even at the limit so you may want to run it about 10 to 15% less to encourage a longer lifespan) then you can say the model will be watts\75 = lbs of model.

Now the fun part starts. If you can build light you can make the model a lot bigger so there's more wing area and the model flies in a nicer manner. It's not unreasonable at all to make a 50 inch span model that comes in at around 3 lbs ready to fly. And you'll likely find that the model will be flying well with around 30 to 32 oz of thrust from the motor. You don't need 1:1 to fly well.

[vintage1]

vintage1 could you elaborate in laymans terms like i have a 20 oz powersystem i have a 15 oz all up weght i need ? surface area lets just figure the wing loading of a flat plate to make it easy or what if i have a 1-to-1 power to weight how much area do i need isint there a forumula or somthing eflightray i wish i could work like that but i had to go to kinkos just to print out my 3 views so i am stuck finding out what my power sysytem puts out the weight of my components and then finding a scale like 1mm on 3view to 1 cm on larger paper but i need to know how much wing area i need to get in the ballpark so i know what scale i need to do it in whats wrong with a overly popular model ? you saying youve never built a mustang corsair a cub a jug ? this 3 view is form mooney aircraft INC. airport p.o. box 3012 Wichita Kansas and as far as keeping it to scale i am not trying to make it perfect i just want to scale up a flying plane on my own thereby expanding my modeling skills and i couldint seem to find a 3 view of a cessna aerobat and the spruce goose would have taken too long for my short attension span and i figured i should just start with a taperd dehedral wing insted of juping into a gull wing corsair are those overpopular models to ? thanks guys

with respect, if you can't master punctuation...do you think you have the patience for this? :confused:

[garrcass]

with respect, if you can't master punctuation...do you think you have the patience for this? in other words this guy cant spell and cant punctuate so he probably cant read and understand big words and therefore probably lacks in all around intelligents so why should my narcissistic stereotyping :censored: waste my time answering his question why not just insult his intelligents wow you would think a smart man would realize that English has nothing to with science math and physics my English teachers hated me above average reading skills,comprehension,vocabulary I know to put comas when listing that's about it spelling and punctuation nada bit cant never will get it but W T F ever looks like there's other people here that will help even if I cant spell don't use capitals and comas and apostrophes and run my sentences together because I never know weather to period or comma P.S. I took the time to cut and paste and run spell check just for you now if I only had punctuation check why would you even say with respect W T F saying with respect before insulting someone dosent give it validation or take away the insullt factor

[slipstick]

Putting it another way....if you can't be bothered to write in such a way as to make it reasonably easy for me to work out what you're trying to say I can't be bothered to help you. Oh and if you're trying to convince people of your intelligence persuading your spell checker to spell "intelligence" correctly would be a good start :(.

BTW if your power system weighs 20oz you're going to have a lot of trouble getting to a 15oz AUW (which includes the power system). And the wing area/wing loading of a flat plate is identical to the wing area/loading of any other airfoil wing. It was around there that I decided you'd probably just picked up a few buzzwords but otherwise had no idea what you were asking about. If people make it hard for me to help I lose interest easily ;).

Good luck with your endeavours though I still think by far your best bet is to look what others have done that is similar and copy them ;).

Steve

[Brandano]

why does this conversation remind me of Vicky Pollard? http://www.youtube.com/watch?GYC_0o3mn-w

[vintage1]

English grammar and spelling is a whole lot easier to master than making a model aircraft.

I looked at your post and decided it would take me probably 20 minutes to understand it,and several more posts to actually understand what your issues were.

Suddenly I realised I wasn't going to have time to answer it, as I have several planes to design build and fly, and a bunch of other stuff to do, and I thought it was at least the decent thing to do to explain why I wouldn't be carrying on with the thread.

In a nutshell, your inability to express yourself clearly in standard English, may not be your fault, and may not be indicative of a lack of intelligence at all. However its not MY PROBLEM. Nor is it one that I, or anyone else, can help you with, if you choose to deny that it is a problem. We are merely pointing out that in terms of receiving help from US, it IS a very real problem.

Life, as my geography master assured us, is rough, tough, and desperately unjust, and its up to you if you want to turn around and spend yours complaining about it, or set down and face the hard facts of it.

Grammar, spelling and punctuation is desperately important to make sure people understand you. Other people are not as unforgiving as - say - a computer compiler, which requires that you have everything spelled exactly correctly, and every piece of punctuation has an exact meaning, but its still very very important.

Consider..two aircraft talking to the tower:

"what height are you at?"
"I am at thirty thousand feet"
"And I am at thirty, too"

In the context of being spoken aloud, that is VERY ambiguous, and its impossible to say whether the second pilot is at 30,000 feet or at 32,000 feet.

Written, spelled and punctuated correctly, its clear that he is also at 30,000 feet.

There is a famous book on punctuation that you might enjoy reading. It takes its title from the following joke.

A panda wanders into a bar, and asks for a sandwich. He eats it, then pulls out a Colt and fires it into the roof, and walks out.

The bartender rushes out and says 'Why did you do that?"
The panda replies "Its what Pandas do. Look it up in the dictionary. Panda: A large vegetarian mammal. Eats shoots and leaves"

The panda, mistakenly read that as:-

"Eats, shoots, and leaves".

:D
You might care to recall that allegedly the Charge of the Light Brigade, which resulted in the almost total loss of a complete brigade of troops, happened because the orders to attack up a particular valley were misinterpreted. They charged the wrong valley. Whether this is more remembered as an act of suicidal heroism, or complete stupidity on the part of the officers responsible, is a moot point.

Leaving out punctuation because you don't know which sort to use, is a bit like leaving out the glue from a model aeroplane, because you don't know what sort to use. Or making it all out of wire, because you didn't know which sort of balsa to use.

[vintage1]

why does this conversation remind me of Vicky Pollard? http://www.youtube.com/watch?GYC_0o3mn-w


Oh dear. That link is incorrectly spelt (or even spelled!)

Try this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzUniIMIuGU