Swift 16 good setup ?

[yanke_knight]

I...
Would be a good setup?

SWIFT 16
MOTOR: OUTRUNNER 550 plus
ESC: ELECTRON 50/60
Motor Gear: 9T
And 6S1P pack A123

[Fred Bronk]

Yes, but pretty short fights at only 2200ma.

FB

[Cyclick]

Yes, that would fly it, as Fred said, for short flights.

But the 550 motor does limit you from there. For just a few dollars more, you can go with the 600+ and a 12T pinion and get the same result, but later you can progress right on up to 6 cell LiPos or 9 cell A123 packs without changing out the 550+ motor.

Also you will find that, to start with the 600+ and 7 cell A123 will take you a lot further for only marginaly more money.

[Heritic]

I have been using a 550+ 9 pinion as I do not intend to beyond 4S packs.

However Fred Bronk advised the 600+.

The 550+ is good the 600+ with a 11pinion (I ordered a 12 but Century UK were out and GAVE me the 11) WOW the response on throttle is so much more immediate than the 550+.
I am so supprised at the difference.
I use 4S4800 kokhams and when little wind 4S3300mA Vislaros? and LOTS WIND same but parallelled 4S6600mA?
Heritic

[yanke_knight]

And if using a pack 4S2P of A123, which would be a good setup? KV motor? Pinon gear?

[Gadget01]

A123 cells are less voltage than lipo cells. You will need at least 5 or 6 cell A123 packs at a minimum for a practical setup. More would be better.

[Fred Bronk]

Yep, 4s on the 123 packs is just not enough voltage. Up front they look OK, but they do not hold there voltage under load like a regular lipo cell.

FB

[JustPlaneChris]

Based on datalogging of my 10S A123 Swift, count on the A123 cells to put out about 2.8 volts per cell when loaded up. That should help you calculate how many you need to get your desired headspeed with your chosen motor.

-Chris

[yanke_knight]

And if using a pack 10S1P of A123, which would be a good setup? KV motor? Pinon gear?

[Fred Bronk]

And if using a pack 10S1P of A123, which would be a good setup? KV motor? Pinon gear?

Century 600+ 1100kv, 10t pinion

[hannson]

z-power 800 and 10T -11T pinion..

with century 1100 and 10t pinion headspeed will be too high

[laughingstill]

Century 600+ 1100kv, 10t pinion
You would need an 800KV motor for that pinion.
EDIT: Looked right past ^^^^^^post, sorry....Ron

[Fred Bronk]

z-power 800 and 10T -11T pinion..

with century 1100 and 10t pinion headspeed will be too high

Yep, 800kv is better :o

[Flyer_Mark]

Based on datalogging of my 10S A123 Swift, count on the A123 cells to put out about 2.8 volts per cell when loaded up. That should help you calculate how many you need to get your desired headspeed with your chosen motor.

-Chris

Hi Chris, is that figure based on load at hover or at full tilt hard Gs? Or both?
Thanks!
Mark

[barok]

just got this swift16.. at the moment i have the align 600xl and align 75amp esc.. will use 4 3s 2200mah..series then parallel setup = 6s2p 4400mah.. think i'll use 8t or 9t pinion.. i know motor is over powering... think it should be ok..
any suggestion?.. :rolleyes: :)

[Gadget01]

just got this swift16.. at the moment i have the align 600xl and align 75amp esc.. will use 4 3s 2200mah..series then parallel setup = 6s2p 4400mah.. think i'll use 8t or 9t pinion.. i know motor is over powering... think it should be ok..
any suggestion?.. :rolleyes: :)Congrats on the purchase of your new favorite heli!

Just a couple of tips:

4 separate packs to make 6s2p is a setup that is probably going to fail, and it won't take much time. It might work on paper, but not so much otherwise. If you want 6s, get a 6s1p in the 3700 to 5000mah range. If the problem is your charger/balancer is not 6s capable, upgrade. A poor quality charger will probably cost you a battery or two plus the cost of that charger plus all the time wasted messing with it. Better to invest in quality unit from the beginning that might set you back up to $200 or more. Two good chargers that are well known yet reasonaby priced are the Xtrema and TP1010c.

Also, 8t pinions don't hold up very well from what I've heard.

[Cyclick]

What is the KV of the Align motor, seems to me it was pretty high compared to the ones most of us are using on our Swifts.

[Greybird]

That Align is 1700KV. 8 tooth would be 2831rpm :eek: , 9 tooth would be 3184rpm :eek: :eek: .

[Gadget01]

That Align is 1700KV. 8 tooth would be 2831rpm :eek: , 9 tooth would be 3184rpm :eek: :eek: .He could just use a 3s 12,000mah pack... :)

Barok, a suitable kv range for a Swift motor is 800 to 1100 depending on the input voltage and target headspeed. Decide what's important- long flight times, sport cruising power, or 3D neck-snapping power. Respectively, that's about 1400, 1700, 2200 rpm's (give or take a few).

[barok]

that is high.. :eek: .. look's like a 4s setup..as per link.. http://www.swift-tuning.com/motors.php ..highest 1400kv.. align is 1650kv.. not that much off.. only ff, loops.. :rolleyes:
wonderin' could i lower the throttle curve say up to 75% to achieve the ideal headspeed.. ;)

[jamesppp]

Quote: highest 1400kv.. align is 1650kv.. not that much off :end quote

That is a pretty good bit off...250rpm per volt 4S lipo = 14.8 volts = 3700rpm higher motor rpm = 350 more rotor rpms with a 9t pinion.(10.67 ratio) Limit your headspeed to 2000-2100 with the plastic head setup for good measure.

Lowering your head speed that much with throttle settings can get you out of the motors effiency range.

[TomC]

that is high.. :eek: .. look's like a 4s setup..as per link.. http://www.swift-tuning.com/motors.php ..highest 1400kv.. align is 1650kv.. not that much off.. only ff, loops.. :rolleyes:
wonderin' could i lower the throttle curve say up to 75% to achieve the ideal headspeed.. ;)

Barok,

If you are keen to use your ~1650kv Align motor and esc I would recommend you use the following with your stock Swift 16 kit;

- 4s5000 packs (any decent +20C pack should do)
- Century 8t 1.0 mod pinion (see; http://www.heli-world.com/SearchResult.aspx?KeyWords=cnmg508&All=True )
- Don't use gov mode on the align esc. Use a normal throttle curve like 0-60-80-90-100 and an idle-up one at a flat 100-100-100-100-100. I'd also program your esc for low motor timing, very soft start-up, and low throttle response. I've used the Align 75A esc on my Swift 16 and it worked great on these settings.
- limit your overall main blade pitch to no more than ~ +/-10 degrees.

This should give you ~6-7 min of very good sport/acrobatic flying and all your temps should not get too hot. If they do, try reducing the main blade pitch to ~ +/- 9 degrees, which should be fine for good FF flight and gentle acrobatics in any case.

Your headspeed and performance will depend on the quality of your packs (and probably the condition of your motor as well). Your unloaded/zero pitch HS might be ~2000 initially, but this will probably drop ~1850 under load.

A lot of guys will say that the 8t pinion is not a good choise because it does not have as much tooth contact on the main gear but I have successfully used this on a a Swift 16 and a Logo 20 in the past and as long as you are careful with setting your gear mesh it should work fine on a low-powered 4s set-up (just don't try it on a high powered 6s set-up though!).

The secret in setting the mesh with this 8t pinion is to rotate the 96t main gear around to find the high spot (all of these non-machined gears have one) and set the gear mesh fairly tight at this point, no more than a cig paper width as my buddy Tony Miskimo would say. You'll probably notice a bit of white plastic dust for the first couple of runs. I suggest you just do a couple of light 4-5 min hover runs initially and it should be fine after that (and run a lot quieter as well). Just keep an eye on your gear mesh after this and adjust it if necessary. I found I needed to tighten it a very small amount after ~20 flights, never again after this.

Best of luck with your new heli, I'm sure you'll love it. Still the best bang for your buck heli out there imop. When you are ready to go into ~21-2200 3D headspeed, you'll need a 6s (3700-4500 packs) 800-1100 kv motor (and appropriate pinion), the metal head block and a metal swashplate upgrade. On 6s, and maybe better CF blades like Rotortec 515's ( http://www.heli-world.com/detail.aspx?ID=2741 ) , the sky's the limit!

By the way, those Rotortech 515's were the best blades I ever had on my Swift 16. However, unless you are prety confident that you won't crash and break them (~$90), I'd stick with the ~$15 stock 520mm woodies, which when properly balanced work very well imop.

Best of luck and cheers,
TomC

[Greybird]

Will that Align motor even run on 4S?

[barok]

thankz every1... ;)
tomc..that is the best advise i've got.. :D

[TomC]

Will that Align motor even run on 4S?

Probably a little more eff. on 6s, but should be fine on 4s imop. Motor is rated ok for 3-6s and 70 amps continous, 85 amps (60 sec). Should be able to pull ~1000 watts out of this with 4s, plenty for a soft, light weight Swift 16 4s set-up.

Cheers,
TomC

[jamesppp]

Probably a little more eff. on 6s, but should be fine on 4s imop. Motor is rated ok for 3-6s and 70 amps continous, 85 amps (60 sec). Should be able to pull ~1000 watts out of this with 4s, plenty for a soft, light weight Swift 16 4s set-up.

Cheers,
TomC



Tom C. One of the Swift owners that frequents the "Everyone's Swift " thread, had one of the century 8t pinions come apart in flight. It was a 2 piece affair it seems and simply came apart. It could have merely been a fluke.
Ready Heli has a mod 1, 8t Revco "Hard One" pinion that is very nice.This is a 1 piece pinion. Link below

http://www.readyheli.com/8T_RevCo_Hard_One_1_0M_Hardened_Pinion_Gear_5m_p/ho-4008.htm

Just anpother option as helicopter world was out of the century 8t for a long time

I had one of these Revco pinions that I tried on an 890KV motor on a 620, 10S raptor. I removed the pinion and it fell. The dang thing bounced off the floor and went over the toe kick board and is now trapped under my kitchen cabinets..stuff like this only happens to me :eek:

[nieves50]

Yep, I believe that was me. Here's the pictures from the failed pinion...

Thanks for the link on the REVCO one, might order one to check it out.

[rotoraddict]

nieves

What power where you feeding it - 4S or 6S?

[jamesppp]

Yep, I believe that was me. Here's the pictures from the failed pinion...

Thanks for the link on the REVCO one, might order one to check it out.



Im pretty sure that ASW20rr had an 8t fail as well.

[Greybird]

Or, just get a Z30-1100

[nieves50]

nieves

What power where you feeding it - 4S or 6S?

6S 4000mah Lipo

[TomC]

6S 4000mah Lipo


Yes, like I said earlier, I would not recommend the 8t (or even the 9t, I've seen them lose a tooth as well) on a high power 6s set-up. Should be fine on a lower powered 4s setup.

When I had a Swift 16, I ran a Z30-1100kv motor w/8t pinion on 5s3700 packs (cause I had lots of these packs) for nice long practice runtimes @ ~1600 headspeed. Put ~100 flights on this set-up, no problems.

Barok, one thing I just remembered about using the 8t pinion. I needed to file the elongated motor mount holes (that your motor bolts onto) ~2mm towards the main shaft so I could get the motor close enough for good gear meshing.

Also, if you use a revco or mikado pinion (Mik2508, don't know if you can get these anymore) you should round off the sharp pinion teeth with a wire-wheel, just a bit. This will help reduce main gear wear a lot. The Century pinions are pretty rounded already so I don't think you need to do anything with them.

Anyway, good luck and let us know how you make out.

Cheers,
TomC

[rotoraddict]

Tom C

That is why I asked him what he was using. As you had described in your earlier post the same thing that I had found - the 8T was find for a lower powered set-up.

As for a 6S set up on a 9T pinion, I now have over 500 flights on such a set-up and about 150 on another and no problems with a 9T, even pulling 560mm blades at 2100. I also fly with a number of others that use the 9T on the 600+ and similar motors, an non of us have ever had a problem with that pinion. Between us over the past two or three years have proably logged over 1500 flights.

I had not heard of any 9T pinions ever coming apart. So maybe the one you heard about is more of a freak happening then anything to be concerned about.

[TomC]

Rotoraddict,

Ya, I think the 9t one I saw break a tooth off was a freak occurance, probably a defect or something. I also had a lot of flights with a 9t on 5s without any problems.

Cheers,
TomC