My new Aquacrafts won't go in reverse !

[gatorgarfish]

I am brand new to R/C boats--R/C anything. I have two right out of the box RTR boats: the Atlantic Tug and the Bristol Bay. Neither of them, in normal prop rotation direction setting on the radio, will operate in reverse ! The two work well, counterclockwise (naturally), but when I push forward the trigger on my transmitter they both stop and then begin a slow, noisy, and intermitted sputtering in the other direction; that's all. The Bristol Bay sometimes won't even do that. It stops, period. FWIW, the BB also runs alot louder and furiously than the tug does, in *forward.

I've monkeyed for two days with the throttle trim control, and everything else there is to look into (that I can think of), until by this point I am about to lose my mind. I'm very discouraged. Have I got $ 400+ of garbage or am I, ignorantly, to blame ? What am I missing, that has to be so obvious, that only a total noob would not get ?! To make matters worse, I have a third: the King's Ransom, in a corner, yet untried. So, I am in a bit of a panic. I don't want to rebox and send them back to Hobbico for warranty servicing. I can't (now) return them to Tower and Wholesaletrains. Surely both aren't having an ESC problem; what are the odds ? I am using 6 cell, 7.2 volt, 3000 NiMH batteries.

[patmat2350]

I'm afraid it's typical. Many of us have tossed the stock ESC and radio and used "normal" hardware instead.
The Aquacrap (sorry, but what a deal they offer us...) radio and ESC seem to be biased "off center", perhaps in an attempt to limit reverse speed... but many/all seem to be so severely limited in reverse as to be unusable.

Pat M

[hpiguy]

Call Hobby Services and ask them to tell you how to reprogram the ESCs.

They may have to warranty the speed controls or you may have missed a step setting the trims in the transmitters.

They may have a bad batch of ESCs out there. You would not have to send entire boats back, just the ESCs.

[gatorgarfish]

A Wal-Mart toy would switch fully into reverse without hesitation. Forward; reverse. Forward; reverse. What could be more SIMPLE, electronically and mechanically ? I know, because I prepared myself for this day, learning to steer on a large pond using a $ 20 Wal-Mart toy !

So, do you think I should send them back for servicing ? Could they both simply have defective ESCs ? ...and/or both have bad radios ? ...one an ESC and the other [it's] radio ?! The radios have a fair market value of $ 50 each. Maybe I was wrong and should have gone with the Hobby Engine tug and their "St. Tropez." I haven't dry run tested the King's Ransom yet. It is still sitting there in it's plastic bagging.

Is there anything else you can think of ? I have been lurking here for a month, and I know that you (patmat2350) are an experienced hobbyist. I would buy a better quality ESC in a heartbeat; only problem is I don't know how to take out the old and put in the new. I hadn't the skills to build a kit, and so I picked these three ready-to-runs. What fun !!

[gatorgarfish]

Call Hobby Services and ask them to tell you how to reprogram the ESCs.

They may have to warranty the speed controls or you may have missed a step setting the trims in the transmitters.

They may have a bad batch of ESCs out there. You would not have to send entire boats back, just the ESCs.Call Hobbico, you mean ? They have a 90 day warranty, all three boats, on defective parts. But they require that the boat and radio both be reboxed and mailed back to them. They have as their options to repair or replace individual parts, or send a new product/s entirely. The instructions on the radios do not include info. on setting the trim knobs, other than that you turn them around to get a desired effect. For the throttle trim that only means that when the radio and receiver are turned on (and the trigger is in neutral) that the prop is made to be motionless/directionless by just turning the knob around, back and forth.

You can reprogram an ESC ? These are identical shrink-wrapped boxes with wires going into a hard setting of (clear) rubber on top. I am a total noob, so ESCs are a mystery to me. This must be a toy model kind (Aquacraft's). It is unadjustable in any way, as far as I know.

[Kmot]

A very weak reverse is a typical trait of the esc that comes in the Atlantic and Bristol Bay. Live with it. You don't really need reverse 99% of the time anyway. It's a minor issue. All they will do is send you another esc that operates exactly the same way. It's not defective. It's just the way it is.

[lowdive]

reverse on most boats is very weak anyway. without flanking rudders you have little to no directional control in reverse. i'd look at it more as a brake on those models.

[gatorgarfish]

I appreciate y'all's help; I really do. But I haven't explained this well, it seems. Neither boat functions in reverse. It's not weak; it's not there. If this is the ESC, then it is not working on either of these brand new Aquacraft RTR boats. It, or something else, that gives commands to the motor to reverse it's direction is failing completely. Because, if I 'throw' the throttle reverse on the radio, then the two boats would run backwards in the water (at full speed) and, instead, not go forward ! So, I have my choice: operate in forward with no reverse, or operate in reverse with no forward. I did run the tug in water once--it's maiden voyage. It's occasionally moving, slowly jerking, rear prop movement doesn't move the boat an inch. No surprise; I had already witnessed it's pitiful spasms while I ran it an hour before, sitting on it's stand.

I knew a few weeks before I ordered the Atlantic Tug that it got compliants for being slow in reverse. I read about it here on this board, and another too, and even on YouTube. I expected an inadequate reverse in terms of strength/speed. Slow is OK, but I have no *functional reversing ability at all. I didn't make that clear (my fault).

The Bristol Bay may sporadically, and very slowly, turn, making strange noises as it does. And it might not even turn one time the next try. It is the worse of the two. But it doesn't matter; the inability to go in reverse is something I cannot let go. They have to go back for new ESCs, or whatevers, because I have to have something in the way of a clockwise turning of the prop. The Atlantic tug does better, but nevertheless will not sustain a clockwise prop motion unless I flip the switch on the radio transmitter. Then, if in throttle reverse, it will run very well in "reverse." But then that radio setting change means it now does the same mess in forward, counterclockwise ! So, I can go in one direction, but only one.

When I said "sputtering," I should have added more strongly that the Atlantic starts and stops. It never gets up to *any speed, at all, ever. It rotates 4 or 5 times and stops dead, and then after a moment or two or three of total inaction it does this sputter again. And so it goes. They both do nothing more or better than this, no matter what, and must be considered truly defective, as is.

Without any more advice (troubleshooting) I have to conclude that I haven't overlooked anything, although I am totally new to hobby class boats. I suppose that I have no choice now but to return them to Hobbico for servicing. Two bad boats and who knows about the third: I am afraid to dry run the [also] brand new King's Ransom. It came with some minor damage to the body, but not worth the trouble to exchange it through the supplier, Wholesaletrains. A very bad start in this hobby--not relaxed by scale r/c boating ! How can they both be broken ?? $ 500 dollars gone out and nothing to show for it; my wife is going to kill me.

[gatorgarfish]

I have now tested the King's Ransom and it is working properly: goes in forward and reverse. Super. One usable brand new Aquacraft boat out of three brand new Aquacraft boats. Two RTRs that aren't at all ready-to-run.

[patmat2350]

Well, one of the neat things about these boats is that they're easy to learn on... even if it requires dropping at least $100 on a new radio and ESC (and more if you like!).

There are numerous Aquacraft threads here if you haven't already found them... mine on the BB is at:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=413023

Pat M

http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/attachments/4/9/6/5/9/a582967-25-underway6s.jpg

[large mike]

Sounds like a bad batch of ESC's. My Atlantic ran fine out of the box, with the "normal" slow reverse. Tower sells replacement parts for these boats, it may be worth while to see if the ESC from the King's ransom will work in the other boats, get a couple more from Tower and just swap them out. Or the best bet is to upgrade your ESC's anyway. As Patmat said, there is a LOT of ideas on these boats in the threads.
Good luck and don't get discouraged too fast. RC boating is REALLY fun.

Large Mike

[gatorgarfish]

Thanks, you two. I want to avoid sending the BB and AT back to Hobbico. How can I upgrade the ESCs ? The ESC's wiring--much of it, is bundled (wired to) another red rubber "box" from which the antenna and other wires emerge. The receiver on/off switch box is hard mounted down too (just epoxy ?) Even if I decided to bypass warranty sevicing and replace the three components myself, which are all interrelated and attached, how is it done ? --how to dislodge the old and afix the new ?! I haven't the hand skills, tools, techniques...nothing. Rats ! What equipment would you guys opt for ? I have a Tower catalog, and a dizzying array of possibilities. I need a hobbyist's learned advice. I feel sure this is the ideal place to get it ! The ESCs that come on the Aqucraft RTRs are $ 30 dollars.

[Kmot]

The "red rubber box" is actually a balloon wrapped around the radio receiver for 'water avoidance'. The esc usually has some sort of plug that can be pulled apart. Don't be afraid to dig in and see what makes it tick. :D

Remove the tie wrap or wire that closes off the balloon and pull the ballon off. Now you can see the plugs. One of the plugs goes to the steering servo. One of the plugs goes to the esc. The esc will be plugged into Channel 2. Channel 1 is steering.

To remove the on/off switch unscrew the tiny Phillips screws holding the switch into the plywood plate.

The esc has 4 wires to deal with. Two of them are for the motor. Two are for the battery. The battery wires have a Tamiya style connector. The motor wires have 'bullet' connectors. Can't mix them up.

Contact Hobby Services and explain the problem and tell them you want to send in just the esc's. If you have to [b]purchase[/i] a replacement esc, do not buy the Aquacraft brand. Instead make your boat better and buy an Mtroniks from Hobby People:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/159230.asp

Or a Quantum esc:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/158162.asp

Or a Proboat from Horizon:

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2314

[Hoghappy]

I think those stock pistol grip transmitters are what Aquacraft include with everything they offer. They may be good for the go fast boats, but ain't woth much if you want reverse. I don't know if you've been through my thread about the tug yet, but I have basically replaced everything but the galley sink. The biggest help with reverse was going to another radio. I have both the tug and Bristol...I replaced both radios and they both worked much beter. The bristol still has all stock internal parts, just a new transmitter and receiver. Here is the link to the tug refit.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699683

Do NOT give up...these are not perfect products, but are not bad for the price as RTRs and can be upgraded as a newbie project.... I know because I was just there. We are all here to help ya. Here are two pics of what the tug can look like.

Capt. Crash

[lowdive]

i'd switch a nice spectrum radio so you have just one controller for all your boats (unless you intend to run more than one at a time). good control and programming... plus the antenna doesn't need to exit the boat so that's one more hole you can seal up.

sorry about your luck, it does seem like bad escs. you shouldn't have much trouble swapping them out. boats are relatively easy to work with. i upgraded my dickie tug with the mtronics esc and it's perfect. easy to program and no issues.

dang it guys! i'm just getting back into flying and now you're pulling me toward the water. i really need a seaplane!

[gatorgarfish]

I won't be sending the bad Aquacrafts back for servicing. It would mean that as they are handled, they are at risk for cosmetic damage in the process of repair. The operable King's Ransom came from the factory with a hard shot (somehow) to the upper hull. Repackaging the two would be a major hassle and then there's the cost of shipping them. They'd just come back, weeks later, with the same bogus ESC; 'better luck this time.'

I have ordered two Pro Boat ESCs w/reverse. I took your advice, Kmot, and opened up the red rubber wrapped receiver--looked at how it was all connected here and there. I think I can replace the ESCs without much difficulty. It'll require no soldering; it's all plugged together and, yes, simply screws holding on the on/off switch. (Not glued down, as I feared. I had to study all these wires and such, patiently, and up close with my reading glasses on and using a bright LED flashlight.)

The Bristol Bay's propeller is *today not turning--not even once, in reverse. Thank you, Hobbico ! The tug will run pretty fast, quite roughly, in reverse if the radio switch's TH REV is flipped, and it will not stop turning as I adjust the TH TRIM knob all the way around in both directions. It runs uncontrolled, indefinitely, unless/until I pull the trigger back, and then it goes into it's maddening every-now-and-then rotations, counter-clockwise.

What's up with Hobbico's Aquacraft QC ?? --> unusable ESCs on two out of three brand-spanking-new boats I have. Man, I hope it isn't the radios at fault...partially (?)

BTW, I have two radios with the same channel. Does anybody know what I can do about that ? ...other than beg Hobbico to exchange one for another (new ?), with a different frequency ? I need the tug to go and rescue the King's Ransom if it's 8" keel get's snagged--'she' runs aground. That boat requires 13" of water to the pond's bottom (without higher up underwater obstacles too), or it'll drag or snag. A tennis ball on a fishing line could destroy the masts, sails, rigging.

The tug boat and pirate ship are both on channel 74. That was my fault; I thought each radio had two "crystals" to choose from.
Thank you, guys: patmat2350, hpiguy, Kmot, lowdive, large mike, and Hoghappy. Those of you who had threads on the AT and BB (K'sR too) had already been bookmarked and read last month. "I did my (some) homework" first. I have been a lurker here, as I considered which boats to buy and what ought to be done as basic useful modifications (ballast for the BB, for one good example).

[Kmot]

Gator: It might help you later, if you take a large piece of paper (computer printer sheet) and draw the esc and the wires so you know how they go after you take it out.

As for the radio, it is easy to change one over to another frequency. First, you must determine if the radio is AM or FM. I don't use those radios so I do not remember. Once you find out you can then order a pair of crystals on another channel. Make sure you get one of the "ground frequencies" on 75 mhz.

[frankg]

:) GATORGARFISH- I think the radio should not be a problem with the boats, they are in fact relabeled Futaba radios , low end models, but heck they use them with the ready to run cars. You made the right move by just buying the PROBOAT speed controls with reverse. They are water proof give good forward and reverse control , no it will not tick over the motor at slow speed, but it will give you good maneuverability. I have used the PROBOAT speed control in a number of my boats , even in precision steering contest, and have done quite well. Most of all the speed control is almost bullet proof, and you should be sailing happy when you have them installed. A easy fix for $40.00 a speed control. :)

[gatorgarfish]

Gator: It might help you later, if you take a large piece of paper (computer printer sheet) and draw the esc and the wires so you know how they go after you take it out.

As for the radio, it is easy to change one over to another frequency. First, you must determine if the radio is AM or FM. I don't use those radios so I do not remember. Once you find out you can then order a pair of crystals on another channel. Make sure you get one of the "ground frequencies" on 75 mhz.Thank you for that, Kmot ! I will do that.

The radio is an AM one. This is going to sound terribly newbish, but mustn't you open up the radio housing and get into it ?! ...and what about the receiver in the boat; it won't respond to the new channel installation in the radio, right ? Aw, I don't even know what a "crystal" is; I've only heard the word used. They are a pair--two ? I thought it/they were installable s'things in the radio (only) that gave the whole unit (r. and vehicle) an 'operating channel/frequency'. I'm ashamed at my ignorance. I can't even use the most basic terminology.
(The Atlantic Tug and K.'s Ransom have the same channel (74) and so cannot be run at once in the same pond ! I wanted the tug to be able to try to push the King's Ransom out of a jam. I know it will get into one, because it has that long running keel underneath it.)
I figured that when I got the three radios, I'd simply see right off a small opening panel of some kind with plug-in or pop-in devices that are the crystals. When you told me that the receiver was in the red rubber wrapping, I put together that that is why the antenna wire is going in there, and not the other box: the ESC ! That is what the whole hidden gizmo is; nothing else. I know nothing. :(

Well I do know what ground frequency means, amazingly. :confused:

[gatorgarfish]

:) GATORGARFISH- I think the radio should not be a problem with the boats, they are in fact relabeled Futaba radios , low end models, but heck they use them with the ready to run cars. You made the right move by just buying the PROBOAT speed controls with reverse. They are water proof give good forward and reverse control , no it will not tick over the motor at slow speed, but it will give you good maneuverability. I have used the PROBOAT speed control in a number of my boats , even in precision steering contest, and have done quite well. Most of all the speed control is almost bullet proof, and you should be sailing happy when you have them installed. A easy fix for $40.00 a speed control. :)Good ! I know that Pro Boat makes at least one rather impressive RTR: the new PT-109.

Can I ask, sincerely, what do you mean when you wrote: "no, it will not tick over the motor at slow speed" ? (Sorry to be this dumb.)

Until I dropped some 700 hundred dollars on these Aquacrafts, I had only "piloted" a Wal-Mart toy. I moved into a house right on a great pond, back at the turn of the new year. That got me interested in R/C boating. That 20 buck, two color, plastic everything, boat ran like a top--same speed (fast) in forward and reverse. So, I was shocked out of my mind when I found that $500 worth of hobby level material was so fundamentally flawed.
In just it's one test run, I have already quite noticeably nicked in two places the bow of the tug, just underneath the rubber 'nose' at deck level. No reverse ! ...and too strong a wind at my (it's) back. That's a $ 250 model, that won't move one inch to back up. --Brand new Bristol Bay too. Now, that's just nuts; LOW quality control.
The ESC also controls the rudder's movement; yes ? (What else could be responsible ?)

Thank you, frankg, for the good word on the radios. That is encouraging to hear. And I'm relieved to hear that the ESCs I chose, of the three that Kmot suggested, is a good one in your own experiences. It looks like it might slip right back down into the same cut slot that Aquacraft made for it's stock ESC. Did you know that those ESCs cost $30 each ? I'm not sure if in the King's Ransom there is a different (Hobbico) ESC; I can't tell by eyeballing it way down in there. It's fastened down...& low. It has a plain shrinkwrapping of thick hard black rubber, too. They look alike, anyway. Tower doesn't say what the ESC of that pirate ship is, by model no.; whether it is the very same as the BB's and AT's. You can't order it from them, by model no. The Aquacraft owner's manual, itself, also doesn't list it among the various other replacement parts available. The King's Ransom has a lowered RPM version, or adaptation, of the old standard 550 motor (I think).

Thanks for your time and help.

[Kmot]

Here is the crystal set you need to order to change one of your radios:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXH282**&P=V

Pick a Channel Number. IE, something between Channel 60 and Channel 90.

Your crystals are two individual pieces. One for the transmitter, one for the receiver. They cannot be interchanged.

On the front face of your transmitter, you will see a small rectangular thing with a number on it. That is your crystal. Pull it straight out. That is the holder. In it is the crystal. Now pull out the crystal from the holder. Install the new transmitter channel number crystal you bought. Now in the receiver, you can see the crystal plainly. Pull it straight out. Install the corresponding channel number receiver crystal in its place. You should now have a radio operating on a different channel number and you can run both your boats at the same time.

[patmat2350]

Nope, no steering out of the ESC, at least not directly... it comes straight from the radio receiver (Rx).

The Rx itself can get power from one of two places- either a small Rx battery pack, separate from the main drive battery (the original way), or from a little power supply built into the ESC... which is what you have.

But from there, the control and power to the servo come straight from the Rx.
Each port on the Rx has three wires... +5v (middle, or red (usually) wire), Ground (outside position, usually black wire), and a signal wire (inside, usually white or yellow).
The signal wire carries virtually no power, just a pulse which comes out 50 time a second. The pulse width varies in length depending on what you do at the transmitter... the length is interpreted by the servo or ESC, which each have circuitry that responds to the pulse.
The servo's power circuit then is the red and black wires... depending on the pulse, it decides to drive its little gearmotor one way or another, driving your steering arm this way and that.

Pat M

[frankg]

:) GATORGARFISH- When we tick over on the speed control we are usually talking about the higher priced speed controls which will turn over the motor at very, very slow rpms, hence the term “tick over”. The PROBOAT speed control, while being a very good one and trouble free, does not ramp up the rpm from stop to full speed thru the tick over mode, but starts out around 1000 rpm then ramps up to full power around 9000 rpm on your motor. Believe me you will have no trouble controlling you boat with the speed control. :)

[gatorgarfish]

Thank you, Kmot ! I ordered ch. 76 from that link you gave to me. Thank you for the pictures too. They are very helpful. I'd still be clueless about the switch-over otherwise.

OK, now I understand, frankg. I'm looking forward to getting those boats out there, with the 2 new ESCs installed. (Now if the King's Ransom will keep working ! *fingers crossed*)

[gatorgarfish]

FWIW, here are some photos of my Bristol Bay and Atlantic Tugboat these days. The colors are really off; sorry about that. This was done with a low-tech non-digital Olympus camera (all I've got). Both my simulated rust and (fish) "blood stains" on the AT and BB, respectively, ALL went urine yellow in these ! Curses !!

Anyway, they are both working fine now and I'm enjoying them alot. :)

[charlie eaton]

Enjoying them is the name of the game. You any where near Possom Kingdom lake? Spent some time there when at Fort Walters.

[gatorgarfish]

I never have been there. Many people do like it. It's 100 miles + to the west of me (I'm in the Dallas area).

[avidjeepr]

:) Moderater made me change

[dostacos]

i'd switch a nice spectrum radio so you have just one controller for all your boats (unless you intend to run more than one at a time). good control and programming... plus the antenna doesn't need to exit the boat so that's one more hole you can seal up.

sorry about your luck, it does seem like bad escs. you shouldn't have much trouble swapping them out. boats are relatively easy to work with. i upgraded my dickie tug with the mtronics esc and it's perfect. easy to program and no issues.

dang it guys! i'm just getting back into flying and now you're pulling me toward the water. i really need a seaplane!
run more than one at a time, you HAVE watched avidjeeper haven't you :rolleyes: :D

[HoaRC]

I will gladly purchase your forward only aquacraft esc's from you or do a trade for forward reverse/esc! :) Aquacraft ESC's have very weak reverse, but otherwise they are good. Switch to any rc car esc and you'll be fine! Keep in mind that the propellers on the tugboats may not be designed to drive your boat backwards well!

[toesup]

Keep in mind that the propellers on the tugboats may not be designed to drive your boat backwards well!

Any propeller will drive a boat backwards as well as forwards.... :p

[Shaun Hendricks]

I think the key word in that sentence Toes was 'well'... :D

[avidjeepr]

I bought the Bristol Bay a a few weeks ago, The reverse seemed glitchy but would work barely by messing with the trim on the remote. I replaced the AM radio with another Am that I pulled out of a proboat Fastech and it works like a charm. Great in forward and reverse. :D

[HoaRC]

I bought the Bristol Bay a a few weeks ago, The reverse seemed glitchy but would work barely by messing with the trim on the remote. I replaced the AM radio with another Am that I pulled out of a proboat Fastech and it works like a charm. Great in forward and reverse. :D


Bristol Bay reverse works like a charm with new esc. That is good, useful advice. Thank you.

[avidjeepr]

Bristol Bay reverse works like a charm with new esc. That is good, useful advice. Thank you.

I kept the stock ESC and replaced the transmitter and receiver.

[gatorgarfish]

I wanted to say, for one thing, that my King's Ransom's ESC did work; it tested well immediately when it was right out of the box. It has a weaker reverse than I would like it to (to pull away from obstacles it's long dagger board might snag), but it did function when brand new--function. Right out of their boxes, the BB and AT both did not, and that is obviously unacceptable. Replacing the ESCs in the malfunctioning boats solved the problem entirely. I'm not lying or even exaggerating about the ESCs not working in two of the three boats. Proboat ESCs that cost only $40 saved the day. I am now enjoying the Aquacrafts--all three, alot.

Kmot was a big help to me in that switchover process. I thanked him in a later, second, thread I began here. It had to do with a RTT cabin cruiser I was looking at at the time. The good advice that was meant only to help me, that I got there, led me to choose another cruiser (the St. Tropez) instead.

Unfortunately! it was sold to me by RCScaleModels! and the fact that I had had a good experience with that company is in conflict with Kmot's and avidjeepr's "evidence" and experience.

I shouldn't have been the subject, by name, of a thread elsewhere: Gatorgarfish and RC Scale Models. Keep that company and me apart, appropriately--fairly.



This "chump," (me) was not "raving about a $ 200 plastic toy boat." In fact, I have written a good bit about the side-to-side balance problem it has...and the rather serious motor mount issue that a couple other owners have had. However, it is a Graupner, made by Hobby Engine, and regardless of it's problems--all solvable I might add, the German design [quality] shows.

I did know that the driveline had a coupler, but 'no' I did not know that it had grubscrews. In my defense, none of the three Aquacrafts had grubscrews and neither does the St. Tropez. All four boats have the couplers thread-locked in place. So, that made it tough to consider the option of attempting the removal of the prop and shaft from the Bristol Bay to smooth it down and relubricate it.

So, not guilty ya pirate ! Besides, I was only commenting on another man's thread that my Bristol Bay, like his, had a noise problem. I solved the problem. I won't tell you how, because while you helped me here in THIS thread I would later discover that you had called me a hemmoroid, while away from here on a submariners-only website. I don't trust your good will for me anymore.

Look, I defended RcScaleModels in how Bill would go on to help avidjeepr's consumer problem. It's public record; the man acted honestly and responsibly. I only pointed that out. Don't you (Kmot) realize that anybody can look up this interaction ? And last time I looked here, she said that she was OK with what happened. I'm not Mr. Oate's "shill." And, yeah, strangely enough I did have a positive buying experience myself. Why should I be so badly 'prodded' over there for saying these two things, and ONLY this ?

Whatever. Just keep my name out of your OPs and thread titles on other boards against an RC Groups site sponsor here.....that you declare is a crook. Leave me the hell out of it, unless you want to "challenge me" right here. We're both registered here, afterall.

[dostacos]

Gatorgarfish, the first time I ran my mini rio {forward only} the guys, KMOT & AVIDJEEPER among others were quite surprised at the range my radio had compared to other Rios, and it sounds like reverse may also be hit and miss for what ever reason. My Bristol Bay did not come with a transmitter so I will be trying out Avidjeeper's tomorrow, but I also will have at least one other radio just in case :D

[gatorgarfish]

I like the Aquacraft Futaba-made transmitters those three have in common. An unexpected plus (surprise) for me was how little battery power they consume. Ahead of time I had bought bunches of rechargable AAs, expecting to need to change them out frequently. My first boat, a simple toy, ate them up like mad; very expensive.


Once I had my Atlantic tug freak out on me, going in very tight circles. It was so embarrassing. The problem was that the batteries had finally given out, but, man, they had had a long life up until then. Great. The red LED warning light came on, but I hadn't yet noticed that on this outing. As the thing doughnutted I tried to hide a little, temporarily--getting kind of low to the ground--and tried to cooly 'reload' them with fresh ones being dug quickly out of my pocket.

That was a stumper to me, at first. I was stunned to see the tugboat go so bonkers out there. What the... ?! I had been satisfyingly lulled into thinking the batteries would never expire, I guess !

[avidjeepr]

Let it go.

[hpiguy]

:D Actually I don't see the banner anymore, Perhaps he left! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
And Garfish don't use my name in YOUR threads..


Are you two or three actually arguing here about arguing on another site? Double ROFL.

I went and read this thread. I myself, have had good dealings with the guy you are arguing about.

I'm aware that some haven't and have been very vocal about it. More power to them.

I live in WI and have gotten a few boats from him. Am I a shill because I haven't had a problem with him?

I could name numerous that hate Tower Hobbies too, but I like them. Same with Horizon and other sellers.

[avidjeepr]

Bill Oates mis-represented a product he sold me and admitted it. It took 5 months and fifty E-mails to get some compensation. I let people know. It appears RCSalemodels is no longer a vendor here and changed their name. When you recommend them I feel it's only fair to warn others of my experiences.

[hpiguy]

I don't blame you. You feel you got hosed, rant on. That's your right.

I bitCh about Aquacraft and that heap called the V24 (and that new Rio 51 seems to have just as many quality issues), and I get my posts deleted each time because they give so much money to most sites. So at least you can complain and no one removes your posts.

[HoaRC]

I don't blame you. You feel you got hosed, rant on. That's your right.

I bitCh about Aquacraft and that heap called the V24 (and that new Rio 51 seems to have just as many quality issues), and I get my posts deleted each time because they give so much money to most sites. So at least you can complain and no one removes your posts.

RC Forums are ALL about MARKETING!!! Retailers advertise to us here, and they get us to market their products to each other.

[toesup]

May i remind all contributors to this thread that this is a public BOAT FORUM.

We are here to aid and educate others in the gentle art of MODEL BOATS.

The 'Mud-slinging' and 'Throwing stones in glass-houses" forums can be found elsewhere on the internet.

[Kmot]

Thank you....... :rolleyes:

[gatorgarfish]

Your always welcome at S.P.My little RC hobby doesn't extend to submarines, but thanks for the invitation. They are discussed right here though, aren't they ? And there's a forum provided to discuss vendors too.

[toesup]

Who the he!! asked you! :p

No one.

This is a public forum.. and offered my commentary on its content.

[avidjeepr]

xxxxxxxxxxx

[gatorgarfish]

...forward, reverse, left and right, acceleration and deceleration, retrieve dead product; serious business ? No.

[Habanero]

An RC Snake!!! Hey where can I...

(Member Banned for Being a Dork)

[dostacos]

May i remind all contributors to this thread that this is a public BOAT FORUM.

We are here to aid and educate others in the gentle art of MODEL BOATS.

The 'Mud-slinging' and 'Throwing stones in glass-houses" forums can be found elsewhere on the internet.remember those who live in glass houses shouldn't....... :eek:

and why yes I do have a story about just that :D

[BK 1125]

I find this all so troublesome. I own the BB, KR, and more from Aquacraft. When I heard about all the fuss over in this thread I had to see what the big deal is.

My BB and KR have good reverse. Not a fast reverse but good. There are several people I know with the same boats and again, they have reverse just fine. In fact all my Aquacraft boats run great and I have never had a problem.

Just my 2 cents guys. From reading the thread all the way through it would seem only one person has had a bad experience with the said products.

Think the term MY Aquacrafts is the key factor here. Sometimes you just get a bad one or you missed something obvious that cures the problem.

This whole thread reflects badly I think on an otherwise great forum.

BK

[Shaun Hendricks]

Sadly BK 1125, threads like this occasionally happen in just about any forum. You'd probably find one in the "Perpetual Nice Peoples Meeting Place Forum".

In truth, it comes down to human nature. People have a hard time "packing it in" and would rather beat dead horses than admit that there is more common ground between them than the patch of mud they are squabbling over. I'd rather be wrong and eliminate bad blood than try to force a 'right' or 'wrong' viewpoint on a gray area.

This thread has lost it's orginal intent long ago and in my opinion, should be stripped back to the relevant original issues posts and locked.

Personal attacks really have no place on the boards. :(

[charlie eaton]

Hey Gator,time To Give It A Rest!!!!!!!

[gpzy]

Hey Gator,time To Give It A Rest!!!!!!!
I agree give it a rest.

[gatorgarfish]

(Well, howdy, gpzy; what are the odds that you...?)

It's just a cartoon about passing gas. So, you can also rest easy, guys.

[MILLERTIME]

This thread is really starting to stink!!!

[gatorgarfish]

??? Was the thread ever hard on you

[BK 1125]

Close the thread. Anyone second?

BK

[gpzy]

Close the thread. Anyone second?

BK
I second, close the thread.
GPZY

[Hoghappy]

This thread has lost it's orginal intent long ago and in my opinion, should be stripped back to the relevant original issues posts and locked.

Personal attacks really have no place on the boards. :(

Strip it or close it....arrrrgggggggggggg! :p