Jet Black Aircraft / Synappsys Digital Services UAV Build

[jetblackaircra]

I'm not sure if builds are supposed to go in here, but I figured I should start a build thread for our UAV. I have posted some info about it in other threads, but haven't devoted one to it yet. So here goes:

Prototype Proof of Concept Airframe:
Wingspan 7ft
Area 7 ft^2
Aspect ratio 7:1
GTOW 12 lbs
Airframe (bare) 5.5 lbs
Vs (stall clean) approx 20 mph
Vc (optimal cruise) approx 40 mph
Endurance 1 hour
Range approx 40 miles (statute)
Takeoff Run 100 feet
Landing Roll 50 feet

Features:
SD camera on computer stabilized 3 axis gimbal (production aircraft will feature HD video capablity)
All digital wireless data/video link
6 axis solid state IMU
Pitot pressure airspeed
5 hz GPS lat, lon, altitude, GS, GT
Sonic altimeter
3 axis magnetometer (tilt compensated compass)

3 flight modes: Manual (direct via R/C Tx)
Augmented Control (auto stabilization w/ R/C control inputs)
Fully autonomous (way point navigation w/ loiter capability plus other programmable functions)

All flight data sent to home station via automatic tracking antenna. Video viewable on laptop PC with HUD overlay or seperate PFD (primary flight display).

Aircraft will dissassemble and be stowable in an approximately 3ft X 2ft X 1ft box.

If there are any questions, feel free to PM me. Check out the CAD renderings below and the picture of our first part out of our wing mold. I will be adding pictures of the finished wing section soon.

Mike Black
Jet Black Aircraft
Norman, OK

[jetblackaircra]

I just cut out the wing pieces and weighed them. I figure with glue it'll be under 12 oz for each wing section. This is almost exactly what I estimated (A little over, but close enough). That puts the whole 7ft wing close to 2.5 lbs. I'm happy with that.

[jetblackaircra]

The right outboard wing section is being glued and is approximately 90% finished. There are finger prints and smudges all over it, but it looks pretty good. Once it has been fitted up to the aircraft, which may be a while, it will be lightly sanded and painted with a lighter color to aid in cooling the carbon. Believe it or not, carbon, when exposed to sunlight, with no paint will heat to near 180 degrees F. With white paint that temperature is reduced to near 110-120 deg F. The high temp is not good for the resin we are using, so we will finish the aircraft in probably white with some sort of accent coloring.

In the picture you can see the spar has been glued to the top and bottom skins. The skins have been glued together at the trailing edge. The leading edge has been glued to the top skin and is waiting to be glued to the bottom skin. Once that is complete the closeout ribs will be glued in place and the wing will then have hinges installed and a control surface (for now, standard trailing edge balsa, later maybe a carbon control surface).

[jetblackaircra]

The right outboard wing section is now complete. Close out ribs are now glued in and it has been trimmed to it's final length. Next I will layup another wing section and begin cutting the mold for the center wing section and spar carry-through. I will also layup a horizontal stabilizer and two vertical stabilizers. At that point I will be waiting on some carbon tubing to arrive for the tailbooms which will be the final major piece of the airframe. I am trying to decide whether I should make carbon landing gear or use music wire. I don't like to use aluminum for gear because it does not with stand hard landings well. This airplane will be abused a bit since it is the proof of concept vehicle.

[luca43]

Nice Job :D, can you post some pics of the mold?

[CenTexFlyer]

Is the entire plane going to be made of CF? How are you going to route your antennae?

[jetblackaircra]

Is the entire plane going to be made of CF? How are you going to route your antennae?

Data link will be transmitted and received through two patch antennas on the underside of the fuselage. RC Rx will be placed near the side of the fuselage and the antenna will be routed outside of the CF and above one tailboom to the top of the vertical.

Nice Job :D, can you post some pics of the mold?

Sure

[luca43]

Can you explain wich way did you build them?

[luca43]

Obviuosly I refer to the moulds.

[Tom Harper]

Jet,

Very impressive. What's the power source? What range can you get from the sonic altimeter?

[jetblackaircra]

The molds were machined on a CNC mill in my shop. We used a high density urethane foam (similar to tooling board, but cheaper) and sealed it with automotive style enamel. From there it is identical to the vacuum bagging process that is an aero industry standard. If you are interested in how to do the layup, let me know, there are some websites available.


The power source... we are using an 8000mAh Lipo pack and an AXI 4130 brushless motor at this time. However, I am currently in the process of evaluating more motor/speed control/battery combinations. The AXI was chosen because I am familiar with them and have been very pleased with them in the past in addition to it being a fairly good power/weight ratio, and it's efficiency is not bad.

The sonic altimeter is only used for low level altitude measurement (auto landing). It's range is 1 inch to 30 feet in 1 inch incriments. The GPS altitude is used throughout the rest of the flight envelope.

[luca43]

Yes, i am interested please let me know.

[jetblackaircra]

http://www.resininfusion.com/ - Has some interesting demos of some advanced styles of vacuum bagging layups.

http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml - An example of a poor man's bagging style. Not the right way to get lightweight and strong parts, but it will work.

http://www.bertram31.com/proj/tips/vaccuum.htm - Not exactly what I did, but it will get you started.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/vbtechbook.php - A book that is pretty cheap and might help. I've never read it, but it appears to have some good info in it.

[dmgoedde]

http://www.pilotsguide.com/rc/vacbag.shtml - An example of a poor man's bagging style. Not the right way to get lightweight and strong parts, but it will work.
By "not the right way..." because in that link they omitted the porous woven cloth and breather absorbant?

[jetblackaircra]

You are correct. The idea behind each component in a vacuum bagging layup is as follows:

Mold surface - This surface is a negative of what you will end up with on your part. Get this surface looking beautiful and your part will look beautiful. It should also be dimensionally correct.

Fiberglass / carbon fiber cloth - This material gives the part it's strength. The resin is only to hold this material together. So, too much resin becomes excessive weight and can also make the part too brittle.

Resin - The sole purpose of the resin is to hold the cloth in the shape you want the part to be. It provides a means to keep the layers together and takes the shear loading between the layers of cloth. Resin itself is not strong, so you only want enough to make sure you have a well laminated part (no voids or dry cloth). Without a vacuum bag people make sure they have lamination by putting way too much resin so that instead of an air pocket they have a resin pocket between layers of cloth. This is not necessary and can cause that area to be brittle because a large thick piece of resin will crack before a well laminated properly thin composite part will.

Core material - The idea behind core material is to seperate the layers of cloth with something lightweight but not likely to degrade or break down over long periods of loading and unloading. The reason you want the layers to be farther apart is that in bending the center of a part has no load. The surface of the part will take almost all of the load in bending, so if you can get the strong material farther away from the center you will have a stronger and more rigid part.

Peel Ply - Peel ply is usually dacron cloth. It is intended to soak up the excess resin so that your part does not end up too heavy. This cloth is then peeled off of your finished part after curing. It also leaves a surface which is ready to glue to. No sanding of a peel ply surface is required.

Perforated release film - The perforated release allows the vacuum to be distributed from the breather cloth to the actual part. It also allows some resin to soak into the breather. The main purpose is to keep the breather from adhering to the peel ply because this will be very difficult to peel from the part when finished.

Breather cloth - Usually some sort of cotton mat. It's main purpose is to distribute the vacuum evenly through the part. It also soaks up some resin if there is a lot of excess. Keep in mind though that if your breather cloth soaks up a lot you have way too much resin in your layup.

Vacuum bag - Used to seal the mold and to create the vacuum. Keep in mind there is approximately 14 psi of pressure in the standard atmosphere. That means that if you were to lay up a one foot square panel and vacuum bag it, it would be equivalent to having 2016 lbs laying on the surface of the part. That's like parking a VW beatle on your one square foot layup. Now imagine if you put that part in an autoclave with 80psi.

So, the link I showed of doing glider wings with a vacuum bag.... Really all they are doing is making sure it gets laminated well and getting a fairly smooth finish because the bag surface is smooth. They are not removing any resin. So, if they got lucky and had exactly the right amount of resin, then they would have a good part. But, they still run the risk of warping the core material during the bagging, so the wing could be twisted or warped permanently.

Also, using a solid core to do a wing is not the lightest and strongest way to do it. That is why large aircraft have evolved into what they are today. You have structure only where you need it:

A spar top and bottom near the thickest part of the cross section to take bending loads

Spar webbing to take shear loading spanwise

Usually a thick skin connecting around the leading edge. This is called a D-box because the spar webbing and leading edge skins make the shape of a D. The reason you want a closed loop like this is that a beam in torsion deflects the least when it is a continuous loop cross section. Why do you think the driveshaft of a car is a tube?

Ribs to keep the airfoil shape.

If you've ever built a balsa kit you can understand... the spars flexible until you glue in webbing, the wing is twistable until you glue balsa sheeting around the leading edge.

Sorry for the rant, I was in an information purge mood.

[jetblackaircra]

Just wanted to throw some pictures of the progress up. We've finished the tail parts and are in the process of assembling the tail. We have also finished another wing section and are working on the molds for the center spar carry-through and the tailcone of the fuselage/engine mount. I expect to have the prototype flying by the end of May. (fingers crossed)

[mrblucor]

WOW! What can I say, nice looking plane. I'll be interested to see if it flies as good as it looks. I'd bet it will. I'm also building an AUV for imaging work. I'm using a Senior Telemaster with a similar power package. AXI 4130, Jeti 70 opto, TP prolites 6 cell 8400 to 12600 depending on duration/payload. With 8400 mAH and an APC 16x8 prop, I figure 50 minutes of cruise with an AUW (without payload) of 12 LBS. Takeoff is about 10 feet and landing is about 25 feet. I plan to do some more testing with a payload of 5 LBS. to see what it does for current draw. My cruise speed will be closer to 30 MPH. I plan to fly over sea water and will also have to deal with 'ocean breezes' as well as the added risk of 'water landing'. I'll have to plan my missions carefully to avoid running out of power over water. I saw a video on the forums of an AUV that is built to land in the water and is recovered by a small boat. http://atiak.com/news.html
If I had a plane like that, I could recover from a misshap. I emailed them to ask about the plane and how they keep it water tight. I'm still waiting for a reply. In the mean time, I'll be following this thread. I like your design and wish you luck with it.

JB

[jetblackaircra]

Thanks, I'd be interested to see a build thread on your airplane as well... We had considered the Telemaster, but decided we wanted to prove out our mold process for production. So far we have learned a lot and are very pleased. The weights are incredible... Typically carbon fiber is very heavy for this scale of airplane, but we are keeping the weight very reasonable and can still remove some weight here and there eventually. And it is incredibly strong! I will try to take some pictures of the wing section structural test... It is amazing.

[zik]

Your plane looks awesome. I'm considering the same kind of construction for a plane I'm designing. Can you offer any wisdom on its strength and weight compared to other construction methods?

[jetblackaircra]

The strength is incredible. The weights are a little higher than if you used all balsa, but still lower than a solid foam core with glass covering and this airplane is much much stronger than a foam core airplane.

To give you an idea we are looking at an empty weight without motor, batteries, or any radio gear of about 5.5lbs on a 84" wingspan plane. It's not incredibly light, but it's decent.

My recommendation would be to only use carbon where you absolutely need it. If you do use carbon, consider getting some very light weight cloth. About the lightest bidirectional weave I have found is around 2.9oz, 1K cloth. instead of using many layers for strength, use a combination of core materials and ply drops to keep strength where you need it and reduce weight where you can. In other words, on your spar you can have many layers at the root where stresses are high, but have layers end at various locations spanwise so that where the loads are less (the tip) you don't have too much carbon adding weight. Carbon is also expensive, so that is another reason to use it sparingly.

If you have any more specific questions, let me know...

Mike

[zik]

Thanks Mike, that's just what I needed to know! I'll definitely take your advice.

[jetblackaircra]

Just wanted to post a pic of the empenage being assembled. Not to toot my own horn, but my method for assembling the pieces has turned out to be amazing. Other than some minor fit issues the pieces all just glue together with epoxy. Every glue surface is a peel-ply surface. This requires no sanding or prep at all. So, the parts come out of the mold, get trimmed, and get glued. The part that has been taking time is that I don't have jigs for assembly, so I've been having to build them. The next airplane will go together 10 times faster.

[SlightlyChilled]

Looks SWEET keep it up.

[jetblackaircra]

More pics.... Empenage completed. Another mock up of the components I have so far. Doesn't appear to be much more progress, but there are some hidden things that are coming together.

Working on the last couple molds. And then the last couple parts. Landing gear is finished. Servos are being installed along with control surfaces.

First flight is coming soon....

[jetblackaircra]

Thought I'd give all of you guys who are looking for an autopilot system something to chew on. The autopilot system being developed by Synappsys for our UAV is coming along. I received approval from Synappsys to post this photo (low res and far away for a reason). You can see the main board, Rx, and remotely attached sonic altimeter and magnetometer. There is a 4 cell NiCd pack in the picture for scale.

Keep checking in... We're close.

[kevbeer]

nice laminations dude.

[jetblackaircra]

Motor came in today. Soldered the connectors onto it for the speed controller. Batteries should be in tomorrow. We're going to be making our own pack... We'll see how that goes. We've gone to a 10000mAh cell. It'll be 5S1P, overall dimensions are about 6.25 X 2.375 X 2.0 inches for the whole pack. It weighs about 2.3lbs.

Got the control surfaces installed. Going to cover them in the next couple of days. I'm thinking a metallic green that I've got laying around will look nice. The bare carbon might get painted white, or it might get a UV protective clear coat... Not sure. Either way, I like green... and have a bunch of metallic green monocote.

Servos are all installed except for the nose wheel servo because the nose wheel isn't installed yet. I'm finishing up the mold for the wing spar which doubles as a bulk head mold. As soon as I get the spar and some bulkheads layed up I'll install the landing gear and wing carry through. Last thing is the tailcone of the fuselage which is also the firewall. This mold will be fun...

Anyway, enjoy the pics. Nothing too exciting...

[kd7ost]

I don't understand the servo linkage angles on your ailerons. Are you using a swingees type hinge?

Dan

[kd7ost]

BTW, That's a sweet build. You do excellent work.

Dan

[kevbeer]

he hasn't installed the control horns on to the ailerons yet, they are just swinging around free at this point...

[kd7ost]

he hasn't installed the control horns on to the ailerons yet, they are just swinging around free at this point...

Ahhhhhh,

Perfect. Makes sense and one of those "Duh" moments. Thanks.

Dan

[jetblackaircra]

We all get those. Plus the pictures aren't very easy to see. Been putting low res shots up.

I do want to mention that on the production version of this aircraft there will be thin wing servos mounted inside the wing similar to the horizontal stab servo mounting. To save a bit of money I went with the exposed standard servo. Those thin servos are $$ but amazing.

[CenTexFlyer]

Why use control horns and pushrods at all?

[jetblackaircra]

I suppose we could have gone without, but it would have made placement of the servos pretty awkward and difficult. Can't get any easier than the way the wing servos are installed....

[CenTexFlyer]

Certainly it is easy. We have discovered that in "the field" those are the things that get snagged, ripped off, bent or broken - just in handling. Plan on having a backup as two is one and one is none.....

[small_rcer]

Good Day:

A long time ago the high performance glider guiders used RDS to get rid of exposed control horns and linkages. A flying friend uses them on everything from 30" speed 400 powered electrics to 120 inch high performance gliders.

A detailed description of them can be found in this link

http://www.genie.rchomepage.com/FILE%2006,%20ROTARY%20DRIVER%20SYSTEM.pdf

They have proven to be reliable, tough and damage resistant. Often on the large gliders they use wing tips that are removable so the last 1/4 of the span is taken off for transport. In these cases the servo is in the inner portion and the control connects to the moving surface in the removable section. This link gives a cross section drawing.

http://windandwavemodels.com/RDS.html

And for really Heavy Duty installations, see this link

http://www.irfmachineworks.com/rds/

This may be of use to Jet Black and others.

Regards

Jim H

[jetblackaircra]

Jim,

That's interesting. I would imagine that the geometry of this setup might cause the opposite of a soft center or exponential servo movement. It seems near zero deflection the surface would deflect quickly but as the deflection nears the angle of the bend in the driveshaft the deflection would slow. As long as you don't plan on having a large control surface deflection angle you would be okay. Has anyone had problems with the pocket in the control surface wearing and getting sloppy?

Mike

PS. Batteries arrived... new pics.

[CenTexFlyer]

We have been using these with good effect. The deflection in our autonomous birds is pretty small when flying. The material that is used for the bearing surface, the tolerances of the pocket to the rod and how the rod is shaped determine the sort of wear pattern you can expect. Using a reasonably hard material (FG/CF/HDPE, pick one) with close tolerances would probably last until retirement of the aircraft. We have no windtunnel data, but the drag component is reduced because low flybys are significanly quieter.

[jetblackaircra]

I'm sure there is a reduction in drag, albeit small, but the idea of not having to worry about breaking off linkages or stripping servo gears as easily.... definately going to look into it for production.

Thanks!

Mike

[zik]

Hi Mike - I'm still very interested in your carbon composite wing construction technique. When you're making the wing sections do you make a lower half and an upper half and stick them together? If so, how do you ensure that the leading edge remains accurate and smooth?

Sorry, these are probably dumb questions but I'm new to this type of construction.

Thanks,
Zik

[airmcn_3]

I am not Mike but I can answer your question.

The wing is three piece not counting spar and end caps.

Upper
Lower
Leading edge cap

Mike is doing a heck of a job.

Hope to see him have a very successful product.

Keep up the good work dude!

Chris

[jetblackaircra]

Chris is right. There is a leading edge piece, an upper skin, and a lower skin. The upper and lower skin have a "joggle" or an offset area which the leading edge overlaps. If you look at the pictures of the wing parts you can see this seam.

[kevbeer]

Jetblack,

Your "lap joints" (the joggled overlap regions) look very clean, I can barely see the seams in your pics.

Just a couple suggestions, take them with a grain of salt please:

1. Did you analyze the structure? What was your safety factor on the layup of your skins and other composite parts? The laminate of skins looks a tad thick to me for this size plane....if you are meeting your target weight requirements, so be it then. Likewise, lighten the ribs with holes if the structure will afford it.
(EDIT: on second thought, the thickness I was looking at included the flange of the rib, skin looks thin not including that, nevermind!)

2. Where the fuse meets the main wing, you essential have a cylinder (fuse) meeting a plane (underside of the wing) and have filleted the transition. I believe the drag may be more for this arrangement than you may think. As an alternative to this fillet, if you were to run a vertical wall from the fuse vert tangent to the wing, that change would give you more insternal fuse volume, increase wing-fuse joint stability, not to mention might ease the fabrication process. Having concavities like this fillet in the forward profile often outweigh the reduction in fwd profile area...also, making those fillets would seem troublesome, though I am sure from your progress you could handle it.

Nice work dude!

[jetblackaircra]

Thanks,

I appreciate the constructive criticism.

The skin thickness (not including the 1mm depron core) is approximately 0.015 inches. Except for where the core material is, which is about 0.054 inches (.015 + .039 or 1mm depron). The core extends to the root and tip where you are seeing the rib glued to the skins (this was not supposed to happen, but due to issues during the first layups I decided to make it easier by having longer cores. Long story, anyway, bottom line is the ribs don't quite fit right because of the core material at the root and tip, but you are seeing rib flange thickness, skin and core thickness, which would be about .069 inches. If that was all carbon, whoa that would be heavy. But it's mostly depron.

The wing/fuse fillet... This area will get reworked before production. It will not look like the CAD model on the prototype or the production version. The prototype will have microballoon filler in that area because I am not making a mold for the filleted area. I am using the outer wing mold and trimming the pieces to mate to the fuse. Structurally you are correct that extending a line vertically tangent to the fuse and then filleting would be better. Aerodynamically, there might be a reduction in drag to be found there, but there are several other issues with this configuration which would be more worth the time. For instance, the wing tips and even the wing planform should be reshaped to reduce induced drag from tip vortices. But, like I said, the production version will be different. I may even make new molds for the whole airplane. I have discovered a material which lends itself well to mold making for composites.... Machines excellent and sands easily. Requires no sealer or waxing. After sanding down to 1000 grit I spray with PVA (release agent) and layup a part. I just machined a mold yesterday, sanded today, sprayed the PVA and will be laying up a part in about an hour. Talk about quick turn around.... :-D

I'll post pictures soon.... (or now)

Mike

[kevbeer]

the right tooling material is a blessing, especially in production composites. Are you sure this material you have discovered isn't out gassing at temperature and thereby contaminating your composite? What temps are you curing at anyhow? I don't think depron stands up well to high temp...oh and rib over core is a no no, it's good practice to recess the core under any secondarily-bonded structure (such as ribs and bulk heads)....I will stop the nagging!

yeah I hear you on the prototype-level airframe....get her flying and then hit the drawing board!

[jetblackaircra]

All of my layups are at room temp. I'm post curing at about 150, but I'm just using West Systems on this prototype, so... shouldn't have any outgassing issues. I did however start with a material that was fairly porous. I sealed it, but apparently not well enough because i never could pull a vacuum on it that didn't leak. Switched materials and now have leak free molds.

Yeah, like I said, the core extending out to the tip and root was a mistake. Instead of scrapping the part I used it and figured it would be better to bond over the core than to try to cut the inner layer and core out.

The good thing about all of the defects in the prototype are that when done correctly in production I will have a huge safety margin. I'm doing structural tests on all of these parts that are slightly less than perfect and am testing to close to 200% design loads.

Keep up the nagging. I want to know how other people are doing these things. And it sounds like you are familiar with composite construction, so that's good.

[jetblackaircra]

So, the spar is fresh out of the mold. I had a slight difficulty getting it to come out, but a little wax next time should make it pop out with ease. Here's a pic of the spar and fuselage. The spar will actually be about 3 inches forward of where it is in the photo. Today I will cut the fuselage tube to accept the spar and probably bond the spar to the fuse.

Keep in mind that the spar has only been rough trimmed. Some edges might appear crooked...

[jetblackaircra]

Just bonded the spar carrythrough to the fuselage and placed the batteries inside to show some scale. The pack still needs to be shrink wrapped. The fuse tube will look a bit goofy where the wing intersection is. Most likely I will end up with some nasty scabbed in pieces because I do not want to machine molds for these parts... Well, I might.... We'll see.... Getting close.

[Keith43221]

Dang.. that is sexy!
Any chance your selling off an airframe? Man.. wouldn't that be the most awesome UAV platform.

[jetblackaircra]

Keith,

We do plan on marketing our airframe, but I'm not sure that we can make it cost effective for most people. At this point, not including the molds and labor I've got about $500 in raw materials in the airframe. I can use a bit cheaper resin and get cloth at a bulk material rate, but still I think I'd have to charge between $700-800 for the airframe, not including motor, batteries, etc. However, it's a very strong airframe. It could easily carry close to 25 or 30 lbs if you put a big enough motor and have a big enough runway.

I've got an update on our IMU. We have all of the sensors working reliably and we are working on our Kalman filter for vehicle attitude. Let me say this, every Kalman filter code I have found including some from NASA as well as private individuals is implemented completely differently. We are having to code ours from scratch because of limitations of the free code that is available. Plus we expect to have much more capability than the free autopilots and most of the commercially available ones.

Soon I will post a video of our IMU and heads up display/artificial horizon.

[kevbeer]

the price of a UAV system is far more than the sum of it's parts...

[jetblackaircra]

Good news! We've got our IMU working to a point where I am confident enough to say so on a forum. Rate gyros, accelerometers, magnetometer, all coming together into our kalman filter which is spitting out information that appears to be correct. Soon I will try to record a video of the unit driving our heads up display and post it on here and youtube. We're narrowing in on the final details. Keep checking, I'll keep you posted.

[hoysome]

Whats the nose dome made of? how will you deal with lens flare while flying during sunny days?

[jetblackaircra]

That's an interesting question.... The dome we are planning to use is made of acrylic sheet which is vacuum formed into a dome. Far from optically perfect, but will make a good prototype. I guess we will just have to see how it does in the sunlight. Maybe get a slightly tinted one? I must say I'm not an expert on optics... One of the engineers that I'm working with is a photographer, so he's probably got something up his sleeve. I'll let you know...

[jetblackaircra]

We've all been busy with our paying projects... finally got some progress on the UAV.

Alan finished the tailcone mold and we layed up the part last night. Looks purty. Alan trimmed it out and mocked it up on the fuselage. The motor fits like a glove. It'll look beautiful with a spinner and prop on there.

[jetblackaircra]

Airframe is almost done! New pictures.

[hoysome]

Finally! how long till you mass produce it :D
I want on the list for one of the first runs :)

[Gary Mortimer]

Looking forward to the flying reports, but one, very obvious maybe shot down in flames from all over for this comment question.....

Will you be making it white, i know i know Jetblackaircraft and all that, but in Africa I can just imagine the internal temp we would get with a black airframe, especially one with a foam core.

But well done looks great, I can already see the que forming for airframes.

G

[jetblackaircra]

I would like to thank everyone for their interest in the airframe. I would like to give an update:

The airframe will be flown soon. How soon I can't exactly say due to the weather in the area. The first flight will be manual R/C control with an HD camera onboard, but not sending video back real time. The video will be stored on board and will be posted online. (I know you are all looking forward to that)

I still have some details to finish on the airframe.

To answer the questions above, production will be possible as soon as the airframe has shown good handling characteristics and I feel comfortable that it will be a good product. I do not want to sell an airframe like this without making sure it will be satisfactory for my customers.

The color issues: I would highly recommend AGAINST black color for this airplane. The airframe will be painted before first flights. At the very least it will be coated in a UV protectant clear coat, but as most of you know, bare carbon even with a clear coat will reach close to 180 deg F in direct sunlight. This is pushing my resin system and I would not recommend it. So, I would recommend either white or gray coloring, but a fancy paint scheme will be coming soon and offered when the kits are sold, as well as custom paint schemes to match your needs.

I would like to address the cost. In a previous posting I listed a cost for the parts to be constructed in kit form. I regret to do so, but due to the increased cost of carbon, resin, foam, and all other materials as well as a slightly increased overhead in my shop (which will bring the quality of the parts up slightly) I am forced to increase the kit cost. The following prices would be BALLPARK estimates:

All airframe parts in kit form, unpainted, unassembled: $2000 US
Completed Airframe, painted, no equipment: $3500 US

I realize this is a considerable increase, but I would not be able to stay in business long for any cheaper. I will keep you all posted if I am able to bring that down at all.

As for the question of getting on the list for airframes, please email me at mike@jetblackaircraft.com if you are interested. I will go from there.

Thanks for all of the interest. I will keep you all posted on flight progress.

[ios]

Nice looking UAV. I've been recently involved in a UAV project, and I can tell you that you can get a serious commercially available composite constructed twin boom 3 meter wingspan UAV airframe at a pretty competitive cost compared to this estimate. If you're in this market, I highly recommend you have a look at the links below;

http://www.diydrones.com/profile/Ios

http://www.genesis-hobbies.com/Bin/beagle/default.htm

http://www.idaerospace.com/beagle.html

[jetblackaircra]

Thank you for the links. I am aware of this aircraft, but have not found a price.

I feel it is necessary to point out the differences first,

Jet Black UAV has:
Smaller span
Smaller packaging (once disassembled)
Lighter airframe
Smaller propulsion
Electric propulsion (easier to maintain and cheaper operation)
Smaller takeoff run
Pan/Tilt/Roll Camera bay with optical dome in nose (180 deg view in both directions)
Large volume in fuselage for payload.

I would also like to know more about the construction. Is it all carbon fiber? It appears to have carbon skins, but what is the structure made of?

Like I said, my price estimates are ballpark. If I get lots of interest in airframes, the cost could come down.

And, by all means, if you can find a better bird elsewhere for cheaper, I applaud you. But make sure you compare before you buy. If anyone has any questions about my aircraft, feel free to post them here.

[ios]

Please don't get me wrong, your airframe looks fantastic. I've been researching and comparing everything from airframes to autopilots and camera systems for about five years and only now I've committed to building my UAV. Like I said before, from what I'm reading and seen, I believe I got much better value for money with the Beagle and glad to share that with everyone.

The pan/tilt/zoom camera bay in the nose looks excellent. I personally don't think it's optimally placed, as it won't be able to view objects below and behind the aircraft while in flight - as opposed to a belly mounted pan/tilt/zoom camera. I think the biggest interest in flying a camera would be to view objects on the ground, and half your field of view in straight and level flight is above the ground! Also, I would rather be panning the camera to an object of interest on the ground rather than maneuvering what should be an autonomous plane to get those objects into view.

The Beagle has a vacuum bagged composite wing and the fuselage is predominantly fibreglass I think. My impression is that meterial selection throughout the airframe is consistent with an effort to reduce airframe weight and maximize strength where needed (not built entirely of carbon fibre for the sake of it - which simply adds weight were not needed) . Its a very professionally engineered airframe overall that I would very highly recommend.

I'll be adding details about my UAV build on RCGs and DIYDrones in a few weeks.

[hoysome]

using fiber glass on the fuse also lets you have some of the antennas internally, where as with carbon fiber it blocks most of the signal from passing through it meaning all the antennas will need to be external

[jetblackaircra]

You are correct about carbon being a conductor and therefore attenuating signal. Patch antennas and di-pole antennas can be mounted easily externally with minimal effect on the airframe. It is my opinion that they should be mounted externally anyway since fiberglass and other materials also attenuate the signal slightly.

Camera pods external to the fuselage will always create drag. The nose mounted camera is the best solution for efficient flight. It does make it difficult to view directly down. We have considered offering a camera pod that is biased downwards, which would not be difficult to implement.

Carbon fiber, when used correctly, will produce a much lighter airframe than other materials. The problem people run into when building with carbon is not using it correctly. This is because they make their vehicle too strong because of a limitation in weights of carbon that are available. When you size up my aircraft to the wingspan of the Beagle, you'll find that they are very similar in wing loading and are actually approximately identical aircraft, simply scaled differently.

So, basically these two aircraft are not competing for the same market.

Do you know what the Beagle airframe costs?

[jetblackaircra]

Just got back from the airfield. Airplane flew great. Videos coming soon in a new post.

[Connexxion]

I'm anxious to see the undercarriage.

Didn't see one in the previous pictures.

Will the plane be available in one configuration regarding the airframe layout or could one order one that's customized with cargodoors/navigation lights for example?

[airmcn_3]

Just got back from the airfield. Airplane flew great. Videos coming soon in a new post.


I can vouch for that! Bird flew great and takoff was very short!

Great job Mike!

Chris

[jetblackaircra]

The undercarriage is not what will be on the production version of the aircraft. It is aluminum store-bought gear made to fit and a spring steel steerable nosewheel. On the production version I will make a molded carbon fiber gear with either a plywood or dense foam core.

Here's the first takeoff video.

http://www.jetblackaircraft.com/takeoff1.avi

Here's the second takeoff video after getting the elevator throw a little closer to normal.

http://www.jetblackaircraft.com/takeoff2.avi

Landing video coming soon.

Please be patient, I am trying to trim the videos so that your download doesn't take forever.

Also, I must apologize, we had a malfunction of our on-board camera and could not get it resolved so hopefully I will have on-board video tomorrow or Thursday.

It will be in HD, 1080p30. (Long downloads)

[aray]

Congratulations Mike!

What a great first day of flights. Your airframe is way ahead of our electronics - hopefully we'll at least get the camera working tomorrow...

Fully instrumented flight to follow and wireless ethernet telemetry and control next.

See you tomorrow.

Alan

[jetblackaircra]

Finally have videos from inside the airplane and on the ground. I have edited them together into a nice little montage.

http://www.jetblackaircraft.com/Videos/JBUAV1hq2.avi is the lowest quality (12MB)


http://www.jetblackaircraft.com/Videos/JBUAV1hq1.avi is the highest quality (50MB)

and

http://www.jetblackaircraft.com/Videos/JBUAV1hq.mp4 is not too shabby (25MB)

We had some issues with the auto focus on both cameras and the vibration from the prop was significant. We are working on fixing these issues.

Enjoy

Mike

[jetblackaircra]

I must say I'm surprised at the lack of response, either positive or negative about our videos. I expected a lot more criticism. They do leave a lot to be desired. I hope to have more to post later this week. Also, we have been very busy putting our autopilot hardware into the aircraft. I anticipate flights later this week which will include attempts to send data back to the ground station as well as a possible attempt at sending video back real time. I will keep everyone posted. Just FYI if you are having trouble viewing the videos, you might need to download a codec for your player. Try going to your players web site. Or, go to http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=mikebflyer and try it there.

Thanks!
Mike

[ios]

Don't be discouraged, the aircraft and videos look fantastic. Where you transmitting the video to the ground or did you have a DVR onboard on those flights? Which autopilot will you be using ?

[jetblackaircra]

Thanks for the reply,

I'm not discouraged, just expected more people to comment on the videos.

At present, video is only being recorded onboard. Video link will be tested this week, but with a standard definition camera.

The autopilot we plan on using is being produced in house. It has a full 6 degree of freedom IMU as well as many other advanced features.

More info / pics / videos coming soon.

[Connexxion]

Lack of response may be caused by the vids not been able to be seen.

I was only able to hear but no image.

[ios]

I downloaded the lowest quality one. The download was really slow, but it works.

[airmcn_3]

You can go to www.jetblackaircraft.com and view a couple of vids on there, it has a Youtube link.

Chris

[jetblackaircra]

Connexxion

You need to download the proper codec. If you are using Windows Media player, in the playlist next to the file name there will be a red circle with an X in it. Right click this icon and click the online help option. The web page will locate a codec for that type of video.

Or like Chris said, go to my webpage www.jetblackaircraft.com/projects.htm where there are youtube embedded videos.

[Felms]

Mike,
Jetblack UAV has been a really interesting rule. My son's school has been involved in teh last two years at a UAV competition in Queensland Australia at a town called Kigaroy. We are looking furhter a field this year to upgrade to some nice autonomous stuff and your other blog entries in a kestral threat made some great claims regarding your in house autopiolot/nav gear expecially the ultrasonic accuracy at low height whcih I am assuming is used for auto T.O. and landing. How is this project going and is it close to coming to market? Is it going to be affordable to amateur types looking to experiment in the fun part of UAV operation or is it going tobe more for the commercial UAV operators.
Keen to get an update as it sound good. Yeah, your plane is very slick also. Thanks for sharing so much info.
Hope to hear from you soon.

Felms down under.

[jetblackaircra]

Felms,

The sonar altimeter will be used for auto take off and landing. We are currently working on getting our electronics setup in the aircraft and will be flying our first test flights with electronics on board this week. We hope to start autonomous testing in the next few weeks. We will not be ready to sell the autopilot for some time, but we may be interested in having you beta test it. I am not sure how we will proceed exactly, but I will keep you posted. We also have recently made a breakthrough in our onboard camera technology. We expect to have 720P HD digital video streaming real time soon. I will keep you posted on this as well. As for the price range, we are aiming for the lower high end. In otherwords, we wish to compete with the high end, but offer a competitive system at a lower price. It will be more expensive than most hobby autopilots, but we plan to be much more capable.

I will keep everyone posted on new developments. Just for our information, if anyone would be interested in either beta testing or being in line for one of the first autopilots (please keep in mind this may be months away) please let me know.

Also, I have been playing with the notion of making a fiberglass airframe which would be much cheaper than the carbon fiber airframe. So, here is my plan....

Over the next couple of weeks I will be building a mostly fiberglass version of the airplane. I will document the construction as well as the structural testing. Once the airframe is finished, I will fly it once and document it. I will use the hardware from our prototype aircraft. Then, after the flight test I will strip all of the electronics from the airplane and offer the airframe in an ebay auction. If the aircraft sells for a price which is profitable I will then begin producing them one at a time until either no one is interested or demand increases enough to start producing them in a higher volume. If it sells at a loss or with not enough profit to make it worth while, I will either discontinue making the airframes or try to figure out another way to make them cheaper. Sound fair?

I'll post on here when the pictures are available and when the airframe is done.

[CenTexFlyer]

I must say I'm surprised at the lack of response, either positive or negative about our videos.

I have watched this thread with some interest since it so closely mirrors the path that I have taken with my company. We have been producing UAV's for about 5 years now based on a flying wing platform and a twin boomed design that looks very similar to yours. So please don't take the next few comments personally or even as an attack because they are not intended to be......

To be honest, I have to wonder why in the world you would want to post here if you truly wish to be a commercially viable player in the UA world. If you do come up with some REALLY innovative design feature or gizmo that will change the way we fly UA's, then this is not the place to post that development. Ask me how I know! We have not updated our website in almost 4 years now because everytime we did, we found our "innovation" being trumpeted on someone's new UA platform. It's the way of the world it seems......

You do really nice work, we know! We've been working with glass and carbon for some time now. But it seems there is no consideration being given for the emerging standard that the FAA and other industry players are going to demand of our aircraft. Weight, airspeed, propulsion systems are all being scrutinized and the category you are building to is going to be a very crowded one indeed!

If you are developing an autopilot in-house and you feel like your "80% there" then plan on taking at least as much time or more in finishing the last 20%. It's easy to get a servo to twitch in the direction of a GPS heading, but when it comes to real flight and mission planning, you'll be trying to make up new Boolean operators for your software! Not trying to be a downer, but it's just not as easy as DIYDrones would like to make it seem.

In closing, I'm really not attacking or criticizing ANYTHING you are doing. In fact, I applaud it! But a dose of reality never hurt anyone either. We have been working hard to produce and fly our aircraft in "real time" missions and scenarios. We have been successful in aiding in SAR missions finding 6 victims to date and helping in many fire and disaster scenarios. I feel like we have earned the right to say that we not only "talk the talk" but we can "walk the walk" too. We are targeting a very specific niche market and made great inroads, but with the developments in the regulatory end of things, the future looks cloudier than ever. Plan on sticking with it for a while!

Gene
www.rpflightsystems.com

[jetblackaircra]

Gene,

Thanks for the comments. I do understand your frustration with people taking your ideas and flooding your market. I wish to comment on the fact that our airframe looks a lot like yours. I know you made no mention of the notion that we might have copied, but I feel this is an important fact to state.

When you take a lot of intelligent people and ask them to do the same thing seperately you will always find that some of them will go about it in almost exactly the same way. Our thoughts behind our airframe... we need a camera which looks forward. Pods hanging below the airplane or otherwise protruding into the freestream were unacceptable to us. So, we placed a camera dome in the nose. Can't have a prop in the nose anymore so we placed it behind the fuselage. Can't have a single tail boom anymore (easily) so we made it a twin boom. This has been done many many times even before your company. Cessna 337 and many others.

There have been many times I have come up with great ideas only to find out in the next issue of popular mechanics that someone just brought it to market. So, to me the challenge is doing it faster, cheaper, and better. That is our goal with this UAV. Although the faster part we kind of fell short on maybe....

As far as the UAV market. I think you're looking at it. The people who watch rcgroups.com are the market. Maybe not right away. If you read the regs thoroughly you'll find that there are few legal ways to fly UAVs for hire. What we want to do is let the regs catch up with the market, which we feel they are doing. But in the mean time, we want to cater to the higher end hobbyist. We hope to provide the solutions one would need for a top end UAV and let our customer figure out whether they need to deal with the FAA or not. So, at this point we are not ready to sell turn-key UAVs. But, we are ready to start dipping our toes into the market of selling UAV components for hobbyists. What they choose to do with them is not necessarily our concern, yet.

But to rebut what you said about rcgroups not being the place to market these products, I feel that this is one of the best tools for spreading word of UAV products. But, that said, we do have plans to visit some tradeshows and airshows in the near future.

[CenTexFlyer]

JBA,

First let me say that I was not insinuating that you copied anything we have done, it was just some casual musings and observations on my part. As for your take on the market and where to advertise - point taken. However, when you speak of "high end hobbiest" I think 99% of the hobbiest here on Groups would choke on just the cost of materials and labor alone in your aircraft. That was the logic behind my statement about posting here - nothing more.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavor, I really do! Because if you succeed then I have a shot at it too! :) I will say that we are working on an amphibious wing that has a nose section very similar to yours - cam up front. As you pointed out, any group of reasonbly intelligent designers would go thru the same process you describe and end up with what we all have "thought up"!

Gene

[jetblackaircra]

Just wanted to update everyone on our progress. We have been working with our HD digital video link technology and are at a point where we are ready to shift to the autopilot so that we can get the aircraft flying reliably autonomously. Within the next few days we should be ready to begin flight testing of our augmented control mode. We will post videos and data as soon as it is available.

[airmcn_3]

Just wanted to update everyone on our progress. We have been working with our HD digital video link technology and are at a point where we are ready to shift to the autopilot so that we can get the aircraft flying reliably autonomously. Within the next few days we should be ready to begin flight testing of our augmented control mode. We will post videos and data as soon as it is available.

Looking forward to it Mike!

Chris

[patrickegan]

You guys are setting yourselves up for a rude awakening. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but you may be building for a nonexistent niche.

[jetblackaircra]

If you want first hand evidence of a market for our aircraft just ask airmcn_3. The only question is how and when will they be integrated into the US airspace system. The how is probably pretty obvious for anyone who has ever worked with the FAA on certification. The when is soon, and we'll be ready.

[patrickegan]

I am very aware of the how and when.

[airmcn_3]

You guys are setting yourselves up for a rude awakening. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but you may be building for a nonexistent niche.


Patrickegan,

What exactly do you mean when you say rude awakening? Are you referring to the HD video or the autonomous system in general?

I have no doubt Mike and the guys will get this worked out, not saying they are any smarter then any one else just saying they are taking a good approach. I have seen first hand what they are working on and I can tell you it does work, as with all prototypes its time to take this from the ground to the air and see what the results turn up.

I am not trying to stir anything up just looking for a little clarification.

Chris

[patrickegan]

Chris,

Neither. What I’m saying is, all this capability (not just jet black), is probably going to be more then we’ll legally be able to use.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10966921&postcount=17

No worries about the stirring, we’re all big boys here.

[airmcn_3]

Chris,

Neither. What I’m saying is, all this capability (not just jet black), is probably going to be more then we’ll legally be able to use.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10966921&postcount=17

No worries about the stirring, we’re all big boys here.


Ahh, I understand. I would have to agree that the government makes it hard for development. I would imagine just like FPV and Hobby UAV they will make some type of previsions once such a product is available.

Out of everything I have learned regarding UAV's real time video is our biggest issue to overcome. Its a shame they have made it so hard although I do see the security issues that could arise with such capabilities.

Mike will have to jump in here if I am incorrect but I do believe they are using 2.4GHz to transmit video....

Chris

[jetblackaircra]

Correct, all of our data is over 2.4GHz. This includes the digital video stream.

I think what Patrick was trying to say is that we've got this neat airplane and we're going to end up in a situation where it's not legal for anyone to fly it in the way it is intended.

This may be true. But, there are other countries where it is legal to do this. That's why I brought up airmcn_3. He is currently in Australia with his airplane. I thought some input on the regs over there might be neat.

Also, I know of several individuals who are operating RC helicopters for aerial photography for hire which, if you go off of the documents discussed in the post Patrick started about guidelines, is illegal.

Anyway, it's still not illegal for a person to fly a UAS as a hobby as long as they meet AC 91-57. We can sell our planes to the more wealthy hobbyists. :-D

The regs will come along and we will be able to fly our UAS for hire someday.

[jetblackaircra]

I am very aware of the how and when.

How about letting everyone else in on the how and when Pat. You claim you have such an intimate knowledge of how the FAA is working on UAS regulation. Lets see some documentation. An NPRM perhaps?

[jetblackaircra]

Hey guys,

At long last, we've had some flights with the autopilot in control. All in all it was a success. Control gains are a bit out of wack, but we're correcting a few problems we noticed and working on our Kalman filter, then we'll have a few more flights and we should be at a point where we can start programming way-points.

In the meantime, enjoy the video from the latest flight. (Be sure to click the HQ/High Quality button in the bottom right corner)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipzppQfINs

[airmcn_3]

Hey guys,

At long last, we've had some flights with the autopilot in control. All in all it was a success. Control gains are a bit out of wack, but we're correcting a few problems we noticed and working on our Kalman filter, then we'll have a few more flights and we should be at a point where we can start programming way-points.

In the meantime, enjoy the video from the latest flight. (Be sure to click the HQ/High Quality button in the bottom right corner)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hipzppQfINs


Sweet! Almost there.

[ShadesOfGray]

Just out of curiosity, how long have you guys been working on this, including research and development? It looks really nice.....

[ShadesOfGray]

What weight of carbon fiber do you use? How do you know what weight to use? Nice looking airplane, by the way.

[jetblackaircra]

The carbon is 2.9oz 1K BID. Two layers on the wings with a 1mm foam core. 28in X 12in X 1.25in wing section ways 12oz. Pretty proud of it. Super strong. If you're looking for help with a carbon part, let me know. I'd be glad to lend a hand.

[ios]

Over the next couple of weeks I will be building a mostly fiberglass version of the airplane. I will document the construction as well as the structural testing. Once the airframe is finished, I will fly it once and document it. I will use the hardware from our prototype aircraft. Then, after the flight test I will strip all of the electronics from the airplane and offer the airframe in an ebay auction. If the aircraft sells for a price which is profitable I will then begin producing them one at a time until either no one is interested or demand increases enough to start producing them in a higher volume. If it sells at a loss or with not enough profit to make it worth while, I will either discontinue making the airframes or try to figure out another way to make them cheaper. Sound fair?

I'll post on here when the pictures are available and when the airframe is done.


Hi Jet,

Are you still planning to do this?

Regards

Ios

[TheThomas]

Why do you use 2 layers of 2.9 oz? when you can get 5.7oz for less than half the price?

I guess the quick answer would be because you're rich.

[Gary Mortimer]

Maybe its stronger in two layers?? I know nothing about this though.

Doubt very much if its a cost thing, horrid post TheThomas.