Espada lust

[oscillator]

OK, the TD bug has bitten hard, and while I love my Escape, I know I'm going to need a 2nd ship before long. Driving halfway across the state to fly and not having a backup is silly - too easy to get shut down by something minor (no matter what repair stuff you bring).

I've been eyeing the Espada RL and to a lesser extent the Espada R. From what little I can find, it looks like these planes have incredible speed range, great hang time, and are "sporty" to fly - just my type of plane. Any owners (or people who have flown one) care to give their impressions? Differences between the R and RL (besides the obvious span)? Anything else I should consider?

Thanks!
Mark

[prodjx]

osillator, Steve Johnson has one, I'm not sure which one, it might even be for sale, he can be reached at wildskies@earthlink.net , Dave.

[KevinSharbonda]

Al DeRenzis in Baltimore (BASS president) has an R I believe!
Try him he's a great guy and pilot!

http://soarmd.org/index.php?option=com_contact&task=view&contact_id=5&Itemid=3

[tonyestep]

Mark, I had an Espada RL. I eventually sold it to my flying buddy Glauco Lago, whose quiver now consists of an RL and an R.

I'm sure that Skip and Cody will jump in here and contradict what I'm going to say, but I think that you'd be better off with a Pike Perfect. They cost about the same, but the Perfect is much easier to fly, especially with the 5-degree joiners.

The Espada is fabulously beautiful and well-made, and it will fly forever in a straight line. But there is something about the way it turns that is hard to figure out. I'm not the only guy who feels this way; Rich Burnoski, U.S. F3J Team member, warned me before I bought mine.

I got the RL and the PP at the same time, and spent about half a season trying to give each a fair chance, but the PP suited me much better from the start, so much so that when Glauco bought the RL I bought a PP Super-Lite.

Now Jaro (the RL's maker) has come out with a rudder retro-fit that is said to improve turning, and I haven't seen that yet. Glauco is on the list to receive one, as well as a larger stab.

I understand RL lust very well, having struggled in its grip for a long time, but for your second plane I think that ease of setup and handling are important, and that's the Pike Perfect.

[glderguy]

Listen to Tony, get the Perfect Mark. It will no doubt become your #1 plane. I am thinking you may have been watching Bill Curry a few weekends ago?? Espada is a good plane but I think not as easy to fly as the Pike. You are welcome to try my Perfect out sometime if you wish.
Walter

[Bobalew]

I've been flying Perfects for a couple of years and an Espada RL for about 6 months. While you cant go wrong with either one. I believe the RL is the more capable ship. It hangs with the SL Perfect in light stuff, moves around like the Carbon 88 (unballasted) and when ballasted moves around almost like a F3B model. I agree its not as easy to fly as the Perfect, but its not hard to fly either, just a different animal. With the Espada RL, you only need one ship for all conditions.
My 2 cents

[Shaper Dave]

I have flown both the Escape and the Espada. A friend has both and I helped with the set up and trimming for both.

Lets just say that the Escape is just beautiful to fly. Excellent handling and well behaved.

The Espada launches very well and cruises well. The handling has some issues. Not enough dihedral, the tail volume is to small for the wing. Difficult to circle easily and needs constant attention.

Dave

[dhauch]

Guys, my grandma could fly a Perfect, thats not what he's asking about.

I have flown the Espada R alot, and it's a fun, light weight little hot rod to fly.
Also one of the best landing planes I've ever flown, period.

dh
www.rc-builds.com

[oscillator]

Thanks guys. While the Pike is certainly a great plane, it doesn't sound like what I'm looking for - having to fly a plane all the time is not an issue, in fact it keeps things interesting. Lack of dihedral can make for a sporty plane, but can be fun too. I have a few RC sailplanes with no or limited dihedral and one full size plane with no dihedral. Though I could see how this might be problematic when specked out in a thermal.

Any word on how the rudder mod improves the RL? What does the R give up to the RL? The R sounds like a blast.

[glderguy]

Drifting off a bit but I find it fuinny how many seem to be somewhat hesitant to acknowledge the Perfect is a great plane coupled with being a superb handling machine....I mean look at its competition record worlwide over the past several years,
what more can one ask from a F3J/TD type bird? Yes it is soon to be an "aging design"
but none the less, give the plane its dues.
Walter

[oscillator]

Walter,

no doubt the Perfect is a fantastic plane. Its record and popularity speak volumes. I'm just looking for something a little more towards the F3B side - even though 90% of the flying will be F3J/TD - so I don't want a pure F3B ship. I realize there is always a trade off, and I'm either going to sacrifice TD performance or have a ship that is more demanding to fly, or both. That is OK by me as long as I don't loose too much. The Espada R or RL looked like it might fit that bill.

[Rich Burnoski]

I love everything about the Espada R--- Out launches everything when done right. Thermals every little thermal I ever asked it to! The dihedral, tail moment coefficient is perfect.
The model wont be needing ballast as soon as the bigger planes so my view in will out perform other models. In a heavier wind , a little ballast and a little reflex at times and with practice its becomes a flyers plane instead of just hanging around and not attempting to turn in light thermals in the wind.
I have 2 R's. The only reason I dont fly them exclusively is I must have the bigger planes for consistent maxing in early morning and late evening flying.


The RL loves straightline L/D. I was enthused in my first testing. Then I started comparing it in the air with all these other planes youve read about. I wasnt enthused anymore.
I started some changes on the plane.
I extended the ailerons ( my mod) and moved the aileron servo out board. Just recently, the plane just recieved the oversized rudder and the larger stab and is sitting on my warm up table ready for flight testing # 2. Trips strips helped a bit. I have them on the wing and stab.
These changes may change my mind about when I choose to use this model. Richard Burnoski (spring is here finally) Bolingbrook Illinios

[glderguy]

I undersdtand that Mark, actually my last post was being typed before yours came up and posted right after you, nothing to do w/what you wrote. Yes the Espada may very well be suited to your wants/needs. I just happen to like the Pike for TD because it is easy to fly even if you are an infrequent sailplane flyer. When I fly TD or for that matter a MOM slope race, I like to keep the fingers OFF the sticks
as much as possible; a great flying, AND performing plane like the Perfect allows that to happen.
Walter

[cody303]

All three are amazing planes, and what ever you choose you will be extremely happy.

"Any word on how the rudder mod improves the RL? What does the R give up to the RL? The R sounds like a blast."

The rudder mod was meant to improve handling characteristics around the landing circle, which it did. For normal flying with the old rudder on the RL it took a lot control in a turn, which some people don’t like don’t or just aren’t used to. With the bigger rudder you are using less of the stick.

The R does not do light lift as well as the RL, but this is only an issue when you have long light lift flights.

It sounds like you want to fly a Ferrari (R, RL) instead of a Cadillac (Perfect). What kind of flying are you going to be doing, sport flying, TD, F3J?

Little Cody

[davidleitch]

I flew an electric Espada R (with the pelican fueslage) for a year, then an electric supra then briefly flew a glider version of the Espada R (lost to suspected faulty receiver battery).

The Espada is a great plane and a pleasure to own. Personally I love the ease of setup of the two piece wing.

In the air though the Supra is fantastic, just does everything I ask, from signalling lift to rolling circles on the way down without complaint. Nevertheless I've thought about getting another Espada, it is a pleasure to fly.

It takes a lot of airtime to really trim a model out and understand how it performs in different conditions and find what suits your style of flying.

[oscillator]

Hi Cody,

TD is mainly what we have out here - but to be honest practice/sport will be most of the flying time since contests are only about once a month. Would love to try real F3J or F3B, but there just isn't much of that available to me out here. I plan on keeping the Escape and could use it for F3B if I manage to get out for the 1 or 2 "F3B" gatherings out here. So really I need something that works in the lighter lift, which I guess is the RL.

[Bobalew]

Oscillator
The RL works great in light lift, as does the R. If you wanted to dabble in F3B, the R would be great choice for both TD and F3B. Skip might even have one in stock. Give him a call.

[cody303]

The R is a little more nimble and faster than the RL, but it is plenty light for all TD flying. You would also be able to use it for F3B. The RL is bigger and lighter for the early and late afternoon 10-15 min flights, but still does fine in the wind.

Both planes are very versatile and are capable of handling a variety of conditions. They will both handle light air better than the Escape. It is really hard to make a decision between the two planes, but if you are going to be trying out F3B you should probably get the R. Is there anyone in your club that will let you try one out?

Little Cody

[oscillator]

Thanks to everyone for the help, and special thanks to Dave Hauch and Skip Miller for the time on the phone. I was real close to ordering a new RL (and may still do so), but found a used R with JR and Airtronics digitals at a price I couldn't ignore.

Cheers,
Mark

[Jurgen]

Is the "turn issue" (this is exaggerated but how would one call it?) only related to the RL and not R? Is the bigger elevator and rudder only adapted for RL?
Thx in advance, Jurgen

[Rich Burnoski]

Is the "turn issue" (this is exaggerated but how would one call it?) only related to the RL and not R? Is the bigger elevator and rudder only adapted for RL?
Thx in advance, Jurgen


No problem at all with the "R"

Flew the Espada RL yesterday with the large stab and ballanced rudder and had no problems turning. But Im still trying to get the plane settled down to lock in to a thermal turn without fighting the plane all the time. CG at 102 from the leading edge. I might have to play with the CG, although Im pretty happy with that. Another thing I may have to re-do is the aileron differential and aileron to rudder. Richard

[oscillator]

Maiden my Espada R yesterday. Wow! Before I give the review, let me say a word to anyone concerned about installing 2.4 GHz in a all carbon bird - Don't worry. I installed the JR 921 RX in the Espada R in between rounds at the Fresno classic, and did the range check and maiden once the contest flights ended. I used the "whisker" technique and had zero problems. Piece O Cake. I had it specked out - a mile or 2 down wind and "blinking out" in the turns, and control was absolutely rock solid. Didn't have a spare RX data logger handy so can't report frame losses, but certainly there were no holds.

Now, back to the Espada R: pings to the moon! Flies like is is on rails. Control input is immediate and positive. Flies fast! L/D is impressive. Comes home from downwind very fast without significant altitude loss, even if you forget and leave it in camber! Landing machine - goes right where you ask.

The down side: A bit tricky to read lift. I suppose this is because it flies so fast. I only have 6 flights on it thus far, so I'm sure I'll get better at reading it. It does turn nicely in the thermals - once you find them.

-Mark

[cody303]

Can u post a pic of your install

Little Cody

[oscillator]

Hi Cody,

apologies for the delay - I've been away from the PC. I have taken some pictures and will get them up soon.

BTW - I noticed my cg was about 8mm forward from recommended. This would explain the poor lift indicating. I've moved it back to 94mm (as posted on Skip's web site).

-Mark

[oscillator]

OK, here are the pics. Let me know if you have questions. Whiskers are 62mm long, with 31mm protruding and 31mm overlapping with existing antenna. The bottom antenna will obviously receive a lot of wear so I plan to place a Skeg just in front of it for protection.

The remote RX has two antenna, but only one is signal, the other is ground. You can easily determine the ground side by looking through the plastic - the ground side is soldered to a ground plane. In my install, the remote RX receives on the RH side and the main unit receives on the left side and the bottom.

[Tappet]

that's ugly.

[SmokinJoe101]

that's ugly.

:eek:

[dhauch]

I think it's a nice looking catfish. :)

dh

[oscillator]

yep. Kinda has that catfish look. The only other option on an all carbon bird is surface or patch antennas, but that is more work than I wanted to take on.

The whiskers don't look that bad in person, and disappear once you get a few feet away. Not to mention they work great.

Talk about ugly? That would be Charlie's Supra when he got "shot down" on Ch 12 at the Fresno Classic (after competition flight). I'll take the whiskers thanks.

[dhauch]

we're just kidding around, i wish i had one.

great job on getting it all figured out and making it work.

your right, ugly is seeing a plane get shot down, thats to bad.

dh

[nxtdoor]

I just flew my RL with the large stabs this last weekend. It changed the launch quite a bit it seemed. I need to check my CG; it may be too far back now.

I too need to mess with the aileron to rudder mix and differential to try and stablize the turning. I don't have the balanced rudder yet. May mod my own.

First I need to be able to see better! That should be fixed this weekend.

Jeff

[Rich Burnoski]

The big Espada RL 145" span is for sale without radio(maybe).
SUPER CLEAN

This is the tricked out version with ailerons extended , aileron servos moved to 30% of the length of the aileron, the new ballanced rudder and two stabs. The original stab and the new larger stab included which was slightly damaged from shipping and professionally repaired by me.

This is a fantastic plane!!!

The model was only flown for testing. It was never used for contest. The colors are white /cream/blu top,, and blu/blu striped bottoms

I have the CG i used and the tow hook position marked on the model.

$1200 plus shipping with no radio but includes the wire harness.

I really want to keep the radio gear in this plane that Ive tested and I plan on using it for the world Championships in Turkey in another plane.

Saying that,,, if you really want the model and 6 servos ready to fly , the deal would be $1650.plus shipping

Ive got pictures. And Id like to move the plane fast!
Thanks for the bandwidth, Richard Burnoski

RBurnoski@comcast .net

[nxtdoor]

Rich, Cody,

Where is your tow hook location? Dimension for leading edge would be helpful. I have mine all the way back in the the stock cut out and the plane seems to flatten out on launch like it needs to be moved back more.

It still launches high, but I feel like it may have more due to this.

Jeff

[Rich Burnoski]

Jeff, my CG is 102mm from the leading edge. For a more thermally Espada RL I would go to 100mm.
The tow hook is at 95mm from leading edge which is not all the way back in the opening . Theres probably 2mm still showing in that tow hook trough. I could probably bring the tow hook back to the end of the trough to 97mm, but then if I fly heavily cambered for launch and with the standard tail feathers , the model will wonder on launch! Richard

[John Walter]

Here are some pics for Rich's Espada:

[Rich Burnoski]

Espada RL tricked out

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was asked to post up some pics. Thanks John Walters for posting pictures in #35 post I could not post the pics myself for some reason. Richard

RBurnoski@comcast.net

[Ronald Mong]

Espada lust alive & well in Columbus, OH !

Finally got my RL up yesterday on a near perfect day with light winds and
distinct lift & sink cycles.

This version has the new larger stab & balanced rudder, cg @ 101 mm and
auw of 1910 grams.

No 'turning issues' to report here ! Was able to put it on a wing tip, close
to the ground, wrap it around with good confidence - using a bit of left
thumb rudder to adjust as needed. Once at altitude you can open up the
circle and fly the plane on the rudder alone (as Cody R. suggests) leaving
the trailing edge alone.

Looking forward to learning about and maximizing this airfoil !
** No sale pending ** - that's for sure !! ;)

Regards
Ron Mong

[Tony Bermudez]

Another RL flies. By Henry G. (Austin Silent Flyers) :cool:

[truestorys]

I saw Henry's RL fly yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!

That thing has a Glide that won't stop.
What a nice plane.
It has the bigger Elevator.

And as I read this thread there is some talk about a Bigger Rudder?
Is this a modification only? Or can you get the bigger Rudder Factory direct?

[dhauch]

I heard that the new ones will have the bigger rudder installed from factory.

dh
www.rc-builds.com

[equest]

OMG!!! I just heard the cash register RING!!! Okay Don go for the wild color combo.

Equest

[cody303]

I saw Henry's RL fly yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!

That thing has a Glide that won't stop.
What a nice plane.
It has the bigger Elevator.

And as I read this thread there is some talk about a Bigger Rudder?
Is this a modification only? Or can you get the bigger Rudder Factory direct?

All new RL's will come with the bigger rudder installed, and the bigger rudder can be bought from Skip Miller Models if people want it on their current RL.

Little Cody