Guys it is getting very cool Airhogs loves us and this is $10.00

[Machy2k]

See the pics of this E-charger X-type Series, I cannot wait to fly it !!!
Check the pics..
L8r..

[modfly]

wow..micro EDF!

[airpower]

i'm thinking using SWP electronics, the extremely efficient motor in the EDF housing and rudder in the fan wash....

[Machy2k]

Airpower; Me too!!

i'm thinking using SWP electronics, the extremely efficient motor in the EDF housing and rudder in the fan wash....

[airpower]

well then go get 'em machy2k, the fast lane arrow flight wich is the same as the SWP is on sale for less than $15 at TRU until through saturday, so many things you could do with a single EDF/rudder setup compared to differential thrust EDF setup.........

[Machy2k]

Airpower; lol, I have 3 SWP's sitting on my wall waiting for mods,
I keep adding to the mod list and new toys keep coming out and
my work keeps me busy too, but I may get a Mo..

[airpower]

i dont understand how efficient the SWP's are, 70 mah nimh and 8 minute flights, its unheard of, and so the efficient motor should compensate for EDF in efficiency, if you go along with it, good luck, i'm thinking and you could probably just add the SWP electronics to the plane, you would have to add some elevator to the back to connect to twin booms and put the SWP rudder on top of that kinda like the palm-z. just brain storming...
its a 3 bladed fan compared to the jetsceams 2 blade, and from pics ive seen the fan blades are much closer to the inside of the duct then the jetscream, sounds good...

[modfly]

after you add a small lipo and electronics (~16grams) it will be too heavy to fly.

[Machy2k]

Yeah was thinking about the weight, Modfly but my Smiley uses the AA electronics and motors and came in at 2 grams under stock weight.
I want to r/c the X-type but I want to add elevator also..
We need smaller radios now!
Petey..

after you add a small lipo and electronics (~16grams) it will be too heavy to fly.

[modfly]

Plantraco gear is the only option in something like this with maybe a 20c 20mah lipo. A cheap alternative is IR aero soar gear.

[Machy2k]

I need to get a plantraco system anyway mod, I missed the inventory sale a while back though, this plane is good looking Ihope it flies well, test in the morning.
l8r..

[PocketAce]

You could throw in the AA electronics in there, charge it like a regular e-charger and use the propellers for directional and elevation control or braking only. Should work...

[modfly]

You could throw in the AA electronics in there, charge it like a regular e-charger and use the propellers for directional and elevation control or braking only. Should work...


way too heavy dude.

[MustangAce17]

Machy,had to go to Walmart before taking my gf home tonight and found this one to,already thinking of a parkzone brick conversion using a different airframe,possibly a he-162

[LexusIS300]

wow pop in the PZ brick and buy the v-tail chip and u got ur self a mini stryker!!!

[KC]

Machy2k, that plane is way too cool! Great find.

The smilely Echarger weighed in at 17.5g. Thats with the original motor and prop.

Machy2k, can u weigh the x-type edf Echarger?

KC

[stihl888]

Do you think that motor could handle a 7v lipo?

[Torx]

that plane is very mod-worthy.

[metroidrc]

nice another ducted fan to play with. :)

[Machy2k]

Hi KC; I just put it on the scale 19.0 grams

[skiesthelimit]

Another reason to get Plantraco gear.

[R-TRON]

Question!
is a ducted fan less effcient respect a free-air propeller?

[OkFrst'r]

Look at the profile picture and that thing has V-1 Buzzbomb written all over it. - No RC system to replicate that, it was free-flight to begin with!
Make up a micro Spitfire & have fun trying to knock it out of the air! That would be amusing!

But if you want to go micro RC, consider this:
http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A2042395&pid=B3465159

Regardless of what system you use, you'll need a light airframe with pretty good lift - probably need more wing area.
Someone can probably give the weight from previous e-chargers' guts to help get ideas for where to go with this.

[danrc]

Hey Lexus, what is the V-tail chip? I'm already getting my coat on for a trip to Wally World....

[Smokescreen38]

Hey, guys...

what about just using the fan and discarding the air frame? How much thrust do you suspect this might be good for?

Could you just mount it on the top of the Single Wing and solder the motor wires to the fan?

[metroidrc]

um yeah thats what i plan on doing! lol its cheaper than destroying a jetscream.

[Smokescreen38]

um yeah thats what i plan on doing! lol its cheaper than destroying a jetscream.

Oops... sorry if I missed that. I just got excited and threw the post out there before reading everything. I hate it when people do that! :p

Cool stuff though. Please post pictures!

It seems like the hobby is really starting to take to EDFs. I have had a mild case of EDF fever since the Jetscream was rumored a couple months back...and I am almost ready to maiden my Phase 3 EDF-16. :D

[KC]

Hi KC; I just put it on the scale 19.0 grams
woooooh...that's pretty heavy to convert. Modfly's intuition was pretty good about the weight of this plane.

Any personal ideas as to how to lighten/convert this plane?

I'm pretty sure I'll be looking for this one... regardless....

Thanks machy2k.

KC

[mfj197]

Question!
is a ducted fan less effcient respect a free-air propeller?

A ducted fan is actually quite a bit more efficient than a free air prop as it almost completely eliminates vortices and turbulence at the tips of the prop. But efficiency and thrust are a different matter - a ducted fan is a small, very high pitch propeller. The corresponding narrow, fast-moving column of air produces less static thrust than the same input power driving a prop and producing a wide, slower-moving column of air.

Of course as the aircraft speeds up the fan loses thrust much more slowly than the propeller as the pitch of the blades is so much more. So get your model up to 50mph and your fan might be producing more thrust than the equivalent prop... :)

Michael

[modfly]

here is what I would do..strap on 10g at the COG point and see if it will fly with that weight..this is how you would find the gear\lipo load limit..EDFs are notorious for having low power out for the the amount of power in. So that makes this double hard to convert to r\c. It can be done but..get out the BIG wallet for this one.

[LexusIS300]

Hey Lexus, what is the V-tail chip? I'm already getting my coat on for a trip to Wally World....
it allows you to use v tail setup on the PZ brick its like 15$ and you got to do some soldering to the TX

[micro_builder]

nice find! i've been waiting for this one since a couple pictures popped up in this thread that show this EDF unit being used in a home built plane by one of RCGs' own: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8192680&postcount=17.

the motor in this fan is not the same as the one in the JetScream, the JS uses a 7mm coreless, this new one looks to be at least an M20. Machy2k, could you measure the inside diameter of the fan shroud?

i built a 10.5" full fuse Bandit using the JS EDF that came in a bit over 16 grams and i couldnt get it to maintain altitude, but i think it was mostly because the intakes were too small and constricting the airflow. someone also built a 16+ gram plane, but using the PZ cessna gear and the JS EDF. cant remember if he got it to fly due to turning problems, but i do recall him saying it did climb out. with a lightweight build (profile fuse) and lightweight battery/electronics, and this fan, you should be able to get anything flying.

nick

[metroidrc]

I'm buying one tomorrow if i can find it anywhere. I'll post all of the specs.

[Machy2k]

It likes to be launched at a flat angle and i trimmed it for a straight a glide as I could get.
When powering it up it is noisy and with the air blowing in my face it seems to have good thrust, but flights are short, ending just short of halfway round a baseball field.
When it is on the ground after flying, the fan runs for a while, so it would be good to get another power source and see what it can do then.
I would love to make it loose weight and give it a little more power and elevon control.
Also when you turn the blades by hand the motor cogs like a miniature MSL or something, so I would think voltage to the motor can be upped a volt or two..

[metroidrc]

do you have a scale? can you do a thrust test?

[Machy2k]

Microdesigner hi man; (I like the glide on the Xenox, cool babee)
X-type specs:
Weight 19.0 grams
Fan intake 1-1/4 inches
Fan exhaust 1-1/16 inches

Metroidrc, yes I do have a scale, I will try to check thrust, you know at least get a # we can refer to..
Well a very crude check shows 9-11 grams, remember guys this may not be accurate...
L8r..

[metroidrc]

crap its the same thrust as the jetscream... but this doesn't have a lipo, its a capacitor right?

[Machy2k]

crap its the same thrust as the jetscream... but this doesn't have a lipo, its a capacitor right?

Yes it is a cap! but it is a smaller duct than the JS..
We have not been able to up the power yet,I think we are all in for a pleasant surprise!!!..
Petey...

[metroidrc]

what do you mean you have not powered up yet?

[Machy2k]

what do you mean you have not powered up yet?

When you charge up an E-charger, the moment you pull out the power rod, the motor rpm's start to drop immediately.
Some of the better E-chargers can do 3 circles around a baseball field on this charge.
The X-type makes it halfway around one time. I want to add a battery and keep the power more constant, then see what it can do...
Also some of us want to increase the voltage...

[metroidrc]

well can it handle 7.4 volts is the big question, but I'm curious what it will do on one cell also. If it gets 15 grams of thrust on one cell that would be fine. :)

[Machy2k]

Metroidrc; it gets charged w/6 volts, I am not sure what the cap puts out , but 7.2 volts is not that much of a jump sooo...

[metroidrc]

wow, i'm suprised it only created 11 grams of thrust on 6 volts.

[EP_Heli]

Looks pretty cool. My first thought when I saw it was to build a light weight airframe with foam and CF rod, use some existing R/C gear that can drive 1 motor and an act. using a 1 cell lipo. Plantraco gear would be ideal, but SWP or even UBI gear could do it.

[MustangAce17]

Ep, I'm between putting a bl motor in the fan and just hooking it to the UBI electronics. A micro He 162 is really on the brain

[derk]

wow, i'm suprised it only created 11 grams of thrust on 6 volts.
well, remember that a cap doesn't have very good voltage retention under load like a lipo cell will. so under load, this could be seeing something around 4 volts or so. it would be interesting to see a true discharge curve on the cap to see for sure.

[MustangAce17]

I went to fiddlersgreen.net and bought the $3.95 He 162 paper model,just need to print it out and see what size it needs to be.

[skiesthelimit]

This is the plane that i was thinking. http://www.geocities.com/h_zoeller/ef126_a3.jpg

[east6008]

Not meaning to be a spoilsport, but these weirdo type models
are hard to keep oriented in the air, they just dont look like
airplanes--never have been a fan of flying wings, or spaceshippy
stuff--I'd sooner see that motor in a Mig 15.
Just my age showing I guess :cool:

[modfly]

The UBI is limited to 1 cell and its current ouput to the main motor is <500mah. The SWP is limited to 1 cell also and max and current to main motor <750ma.

[skiesthelimit]

Would a SWP RX be able to handle the current drawn from that motor in the E-charger and the prop? cause i have 3 SWP lay in around but one i could totally use one of them in this , as soon as i find one. And what size is the motor?

[modfly]

No one has done a current draw test on the little EDF yet..My guess is the SWP rx will not work with the stock motor in the EDF as its designed for 6v operation.

[MustangAce17]

mod, i soldered up the fan to my UBI electronics and ran into a problem. I gave the orginal UBI TX to a friend and now none of my other AA Tx's have the same charging plug so I can't charge it up and try it out. What's the easiest solution,I can't afford a MXPV or another ubi right now.

[modfly]

do you have a havoc TX? The mxpv TX will not fit the UBI rx charge port either..I made an adapter from a Havoc charge plug and it fits everything..I have not actually tried it, but I think the Havoc TX will charge any AA at just over 1c.

[MustangAce17]

well I gave my Havoc to my little brother but he said it's broke so I'll get it back. Thanks for the reply

[OkFrst'r]

It sounds like swapping the motor with something that will run similar power and rev's will be the best thing to try. The question is, how hard would a swap be?

[Machy2k]

I got some questions, somone mentioned using a 7.4 volt lipo,
what micro radio would this setup use?.

If the SWP electronics could work, I was thinking of putting a hinge under the duct and having the actuator tilt the airplane body, any thoughts on if this would be effective to turn the plane?

I have to try fresh batteries in the power plug for this baby and see if it is better, but I am not ready to pop it open until I get one more!!
L8r...

[metroidrc]

ok someone needs to rip the thing apart pull the fan out and pop it on a thrust stand with a 2 cell lipo. whos in?

[Machy2k]

ok someone needs to rip the thing apart pull the fan out and pop it on a thrust stand with a 2 cell lipo. whos in?

I have to find another before burning this one out..

[metroidrc]

i really need to hit up TRU..

[Machy2k]

I was just comparing another E-charger motor with the motor in the X-type EDF e-charger, and they look to be the same motor, as near as I can tell without disassembly...
And when applying power they have the same speed characteristics...
L8r...
Ps.I just took voltage reading off of the capacitor on an old E-charger and after a 10 second charge the voltage was only 2.62volts.. so it would seem that SWP or AA electronics would be an upgrade.. hmmm.

Pss. tried again and got the charge to go to a little over 4 volts..
L8r...

[derk]

so if thats the case, a fresh 2s pack will be something like 7 volts under load depending on the discharge curve of the pack. and this thing will come alive on 2s :)

[metroidrc]

yep but that motor might not be able to handle it.. hopefully it will though.

[modfly]

I would put a current meter on it because if its drawing more than 1 amp..it will have a very short life. Any time a new motor is tested with a new battery, current readings are required.

[metroidrc]

went to toys r us and target... only the old echargers.... bummer!

[Machy2k]

May be a bummer Metroid, but I have a disassociated E-charger motor ,and I am going to fry it between now, and tomorrow.
I looked all over Ft. Lauderdale for another one, no dice I was hoping for some variants.
On this thread it seems only 2 of us have one of these, man..

[metroidrc]

it shouldnt fry on 7.4v but it will burn out if you go for too long, and less it seems really stable you will be able to tell.

[Machy2k]

Finally tried a 7.4 volt lipo from one of my cybirds on an E-charger motor.
let me also say that I checked amperage of the motor using my VOM and the standard alkaline cells (not sure what I was doing) but I got, on the different settings I tried, something over 4amps of draw.
When I plugged in the lipo, a 2 minute run had the motor burning hot to the touch and then the motor burned out, (I thought the battery had discharged) but further investigation showed that the motor is fried!!
So do not connect a 7.4 volt lipo to your EDF E-charger..
Petey...

[modfly]

Finally tried a 7.4 volt lipo from one of my cybirds on an E-charger motor.
let me also say that I checked amperage of the motor using my VOM and the standard alkaline cells (not sure what I was doing) but I got, on the different settings I tried, something over 4amps of draw.
When I plugged in the lipo, a 2 minute run had the motor burning hot to the touch and then the motor burned out, (I thought the battery had discharged) but further investigation showed that the motor is fried!!
So do not connect a 7.4 volt lipo to your EDF E-charger..
Petey...

yea..1amp is about all a small motor like that can handle..4amps=POWDERED TOAST MAN!

[Smokescreen38]

....POWDERED TOAST MAN!


"Cling tenaciously to my buttocks!" :D

I loved that show!

[MustangAce17]

Machy, I'm going to get my Havoc heli tomorrow so I can charge edf and ubi electronics up. I looked for another here to with no dice,will try another Wallyworld tomorrow

[Machy2k]

Mustangace17; and anybody else looking for the EDF X-type e-charger.
The other x-type series planes are all (so far) old style e-chargers like the Smiley, the Canard jet and the Double Delta design, they are just in dark X-plane colors,
The EDF one (so far) seems to be the sole EDF e-charger for the moment.
Something that is really puzzling to me is that Airhogs/Silverlit, sell millions of these things worldwide, and I am the only person I know in my area who is out at the park flying them, most of my friends got their planes as a gift from me, and I am sure they sell many, many E-chargers but I have never seen a kid flying one!!
I know they sell, cause I am always in the stores looking for toys..
Petey..

[KC]

petey, I have a "smiley" echarger (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1210328) that I bought at clearance price for less than $3 bucks.

I've been meaning to remove the stock motor and put on a spare AA gear.

Would you like for me to send you the motor out of my smiley so you can continue your testing?

Let me know.

KC

[Machy2k]

kc my testing on that motor is done, (I have a few more anyway)
we were just trying to determine if it would survive 7.4 volts.
I did find out that (as near as I can tell) that the amp draw is 4amps+. I gather that is why the motors rev so high, from the capacitor and six volts of alkaline power.
It seems to me that SWP electronics w/a lipo 3.7 volts should make this thing fly, although there will not be a wide throttle range.
I did connect my SWP guts to the motor and at full throttle the plane was skiing on a hard surface with some authority.
I have not installed the SWP guts yet and I am still toyng w/my idea of putting the actuator under the edf duct and tilting the planes wings to turn, I am just not sure if it will work...

Ps. KC I do have a pretty successful AA modded Smiley the only thing is when it lands sometimes my motors dislodge, I have been trying to find a way to prevent this.
Good luck.. oh and it was my very first mod post also and it flew very well for the first time..
Petey..

[skiesthelimit]

Machy2k, are you going to use the SWP motor or the motor that comes with the E-charger? Also how big is the E-charger's motor? I believe that the SWP's motor is 7mm.

[metroidrc]

did you get a real thrust reading for 1 cell? was it 9-11 grams? If so, then we are back at square one, jetscream fan is the same... only difference that the echarger is cheaper.

[Machy2k]

Skies; I am going to use the stock E-charger motor so far..
Metroidrc; I only tried the SWP electronics w/the Nimh cells (I still have to take the SWP guts out).. Everything I am doing right now is down and dirty, plus I forgot to get a crude thrust reading.
Here are some comparison pics of the E-charger motors...

[metroidrc]

hmm i wonder how heavy that motor is?

[Machy2k]

Metroidrc; 4.1 grams w/the gear on the shaft it is looking like the parkzone brick is perfect for this app.
If the weight can be bought down some more

[metroidrc]

well the jetscream motor with fan unit weighs around 4 grams too I believe, so we're in the same ballpark. we need to test that motor on one lipo cell..... do you have one you can try?

[modfly]

yea..swp motor=7mm

[obiwan22]

so hows the conversion doing?

[Machy2k]

Yes Metroid I have another few I can try and some AA Lipos so I give results later.
I believe the lower voltage is cool, my conversion is going slowly I have like 38 micro rtf planes and other models (so way more than 38) and my own business, sometimes I be real busy..
and I really would like another X-plane E-charger before doing too much..
L8r..

[tgg61]

Could someone copy or pic the UPC or part # for this please!
Can't seem to find it at the usual places.
Thanks,
Tom

[MustangAce17]

well two attempts to use the fan with ubi equipment have failed,it will run for a few seconds and quit voltage cutoff in motor perhaps?

[Machy2k]

I have been thinking about my 7.2 volt E-charger motor test, which fried the motor before 2 minutes was up actually.
I feel that these motors will run well on 3.6 volts from an AA lipo but, for how long.
I feel now that these motors will burn out very quickly after a (let's say) 10 min. run..
After all these E-chargers are designed to charge for 10 seconds and they fly for 1/2 a minute or so.
I bet if we check we would find that other guys have burned them out pretty quickly as well!
I would love to see if there is a suitable replacement..
L8r..

[skiesthelimit]

So would using the SWP motor with the ducted prop be better then using the motor that came with the E-charger? Which motor is larger? Also what battery is heavier the SWP nimh or the AA lipo? I already have mine upgraded to an AA lipo. Sorry for all the questions but i would love to try this. I have been dying to make something like this, but this airframe will do just fine.

[foam and tape]

http://www.gws.com.tw/english/product/powersystem/008.htm

N-20 7.2V replacement

[metroidrc]

weight 7 grams... lol
more than twice as heavy as the ss blue...

[airpower]

So would using the SWP motor with the ducted prop be better then using the motor that came with the E-charger? Which motor is larger? Also what battery is heavier the SWP nimh or the AA lipo? I already have mine upgraded to an AA lipo. Sorry for all the questions but i would love to try this. I have been dying to make something like this, but this airframe will do just fine.the 70 mah SWP battery is heavier, of course it was all done by hand though...

[Machy2k]

The E-charger motor is smaller than an N20 motor guys,
+ as long as we can adapt the EDF E-charger for the SWP or whatever motor, they should work fine.
So yeah 30,000 rpm SS motors yeah babee!!
The main thing this plane needs, is very light weight components,
and a little (or a lot) more power

[Machy2k]

Box bar code, motor can Measurements in mm's

[Machy2k]

Does anyone know if the Swp electronics can handle any of the Super Slicks motors (especially the blue motor)...

[airpower]

no idea, but the SWP motor has 3 wires, but the 2 red ones are on the same solder joint, wierd huh??? let me go do a size comparison of the SS's motors and the SWP, that probably wont tell us anything though, my guess is probably the EDF unit will draw 2 many amps since the SWP uses a gearbox.

[KC]

I'm not sure if this info is of any use, but I did some current tests on the 'Smiley' Echarger motor.

With 4 NiMh cells (5.15V), the motor drew 1.3A and got very hot very quickly. I only ran it for a few seconds.

With 3 NiMh cells (3.8V), closer to a single lipo, the motor drew .9 A in the beginning and down to .8A as the battery drained.. The motor became warm to the touch after several minutes. The single lipo maybe ok for this motor with ample ventilatiation and careful throttle control.

I forgot what the AA RX can handle with the Fet mod. Maybe a Fet and Actuator mod to an AA rx may be the trick here.

KC

[modfly]

no idea, but the SWP motor has 3 wires, but the 2 red ones are on the same solder joint, wierd huh??? let me go do a size comparison of the SS's motors and the SWP, that probably wont tell us anything though, my guess is probably the EDF unit will draw 2 many amps since the SWP uses a gearbox.

This is a 3 wire motor noise suppression Technique. The SWP can handle about 1.7 amp..The Arrow Flight can handle about 750-800ma or .8amp.

2 of the wires are positive and one is soldered directly to the case. The third wire is the switched motor power wire and uses N channel FETS for the control throttle switching. These FETS can be upgraded for more current.

edit...upgrade FETs include soldering...very hard to do unless your skilled with an iron as they are surface mount.

[Machy2k]

Ok so as far as I can see, in my mod of this EDF E-charger, it is supposed to be a jet and it needs more oomph anyway, so I have now decided to install the SS blue motor 30,000 rpm's babee..
I am going to try to get an rpm reading off the fan w/stock setup..
More to come..

[MustangAce17]

looked at anotherwalmart,only old e chargers,hopefully find another soon.Finally got a MXPV tho

[Machy2k]

Het Mustangace17; so fgar it looks like me and you man, are there any more of these EDF's out there!?
I pried off the fan, I have a blue SS motor.
I need to remove the stock motor which near as I can tell is glued, it does not move with simple pushing, gonna try tapping w/hobby hammer if I can find a way to shore up the motor mount.
(Trying my best not to hurt this thing)
The motor mount is burned at the back, they either solder this while it is in the shroud, or shove it in right as the wires get soldered.
I would love to see inside the factory assembly lines for any of these micro planes..
L8r ...
ps I have scoured this area of florida looking for more of these babies.

[AirNerd]

I have not found them yet either...and here in KC we have WAY too many wallyworlds....

I hope know one beats me to a micro A-10.