Instructing the Newbie-Tips and Tricks

[dwells]

Yes, I am one :confused: . There are a lot of you out there that have been flying sailplanes for many years and have had your share of training sessions, good and bad. I will have an instructor this weekend, weather willing, and would like to know some of your experiences.

Preparation for the session-
Orientation to the club and field-
Preflight check-
Overcoming anxiety and dumbthumb-
Best and worst sessions-

I will value all of your inputs and think that it will help me to be better prepared.

Thanks in advance,

Don

[johnny "skorp"]

I have no idea at what level you are at !
Also have you done any form of RC flying at all ?
What kind of sail plane do you have ?, a 2 channel rudder elevator ship, or something that ailerons ?

One of the main things I would have to say is just simply enjoy yourself out there, and dont worry if you completely mess things up cos you will get the hang of it.

I have taugh many people to fly powered fix wing, many of them complete novices.
The main thing is that if you model is built correctly then it will fly, and your instructor should be able to show you this.
Be sure to do a range check of you equipment first as we wouldnt want you to loose your sailplane on its first outing.
And make sure that the controls all go the correct direction, and your laughing.

I still get nerves when I have several 1000 £ rolled up in an F3F ship, and then throwing it off the side of a cliff for its first flight.

On the controls be smooth applying the stick movement and smooth tacking it off.
If you stab at the controls it will result in a jaggerdy flight.

Just simply enjoy the experiance.
The first time that you get a thermal and you spec out the sail plane is an awesome feeling.

I can still remember the first time that I did it, it was on a flat field with a 60" slope model called a mini ellipse, that I had fitted a hook too.
I got into some good lift and just circled her finding the sweet spot and in a few minuites she was a spec in the sky (Awesome feeling !)

Enjoy it dude, cos you will get hooked !

John

[dwells]

Thanks John and sorry for the lack of my personal specs. I have zero experience with RC planes. I have a Spirit 2m configured as RES. It's balanced both directions and is flat and true...should fly...

[rdeis]

Before the session:

Double check that the CG, control direction, and throws all match the instructions, and that all the linkages are tight. Make sure the spoilers move together. Check the tow hook position, too. You'll do a radio check when you get there. Oh, also- getting there early to help set up launch equipment and/or staying late enough to tear down is always a plus.

Learn the frequency control rules for your field before you turn anything on.

During the session, don't be afraid to take a walk! One of the things I liked about learning to soar is that mistakes generally cost you flight time rather than costing you the airplane. If you find your self low and far away, just point it into the wind, keep the wings level and nose flat, and let it run. The airplane will land itself safely, though far away. If you try to horse and force it to come back close to you, you're likely to break it. Besides, you can think about how you let it get so low and so far out while you're walking to retrieve it. (-:

The first time tips I remember most are these:
1> The rudder stick doesn't make the airplane turn, it makes the airplane roll. (A turn naturally results from the roll when you feed in elevator to keep it from diving, but it's best to remember the rudder as roll control.)

2> The elevator stick is your throttle, not climb/dive control. Pushing the nose over speeds up, holding it high slows down. If you're climbing and diving with the elevator, you're using too much control.

And most importantly:

3> The landing approach usually is directly toward you from downwind. Forget about steering altogether and just push the rudder stick towards the low wing-- "Stick-to-the-low-wing" keeps the airplane level and coming at you just like you want it to, and lets you avoid thinking too much about control reversal or losing orientation.

Everything else is about being open to advice, meeting the club members, and having a good time.

[dwells]

[QUOTE=rdeis]Before the session:

1> The rudder stick doesn't make the airplane turn, it makes the airplane roll. (A turn naturally results from the roll when you feed in elevator to keep it from diving, but it's best to remember the rudder as roll control.)

Thanks rdeis,

Are you saying that when you give some rudder that you blend in some up elevator at the same time?

[rdeis]

Are you saying that when you give some rudder that you blend in some up elevator at the same time?

If you want to turn, yes.

On your Sprit, rudder input will first cause the airplane to roll, and if you hold the rudder the nose will drop and the airplane will enter a spiral dive. To make a coordinated turn, the proper procedure is to set the roll angle with the rudder and feed in a little up to keep the pitch angle constant, resulting in a circle.

There are four points on a circular flight path that will really teach you how this works. When it's flying directly toward or directly away from you, you can clearly see the bank angle. More rudder in the same direction will steepen the bank, "top rudder" or opposite rudder will lessen the bank angle. At the furthest and closest points of the circle you can most easily see the pitch angle. Add a little back stick to hold the nose up and slow down (and tighten the turn), or add a little foward stick to push the nose over and speed up (and widen the turn).

When you're first starting out, you may only get to practise the circle on very calm days. Flying circles will have you drifting downwind and you don't want to let the airplane get very far downwind of you as an inexperienced pilot. When it's breezy it's safer to fly an S pattern back and forth accross the wind, well upwind from where you are standing. Your instructor will have a good feel for where it's safe to fly at your field in different conditions , so go where he says to go.

You'll find that the controls on an airplane have to be coordinated like that most of the time to get it to do what you want. Spoilers, for example, often cause the airplane to pitch sharply (usually nose down, but some airplanes are different than others) so you'll need to compensate with the elevator stick when you open them. Ideally you feed in just enough elevator to keep the pitch constant when you open the spoilers. If your radio supports it, you can program a mix that will automaticly feed in the elevator for you- and getting that mix right is part of the trimming process you'll go through.

[dwells]

Great stuff, I appreciate it. One more question for you, will this plane level itself after a bank and the control are neutral or will it need input from me?

[O.L. Adcock]

Dwells, "One more question for you, will this plane level itself after a bank and the control are neutral or will it need input from me?" It probably will to a certain extent. It'll depend on your CG and how steep the bank was when you let it go. Your instructor should work with you on that. After awhile your inputs will become second nature without direct thought just like stepping on the brake in your car. Learn to make the plane do what you want it to do instead of being 2 steps behind what the plane is doing on it's own....O.L.

[rdeis]

Great stuff, I appreciate it. One more question for you, will this plane level itself after a bank and the control are neutral or will it need input from me?

Depends. Getting the roll response the way you like it is also part of the trimming process.

You should have set the CG at the forward part of the range, which will make the airplane positively stable. Set up that way it will self-correct pitch pretty strongly, but not so much in roll.

Expect it to require at least some input to flatten the roll and come out of a turn, but I'm not sure how much. If you are controlling the roll angle through the whole turn like you should be, you'll get a feel for it very quickly. It's easy to see how the bank angle changed from the other side of the circle, and then you know whether you have too much rudder or too little.

And 2nd to what OL said. Listen to your instructor, he'll see that you're overcontrolling before you will and help you understand what the airplane is doing.

[dwells]

Excellent, thanks. My Tx has a port for a trainer cable, is it common to use this feature?

[Guz]

My personal favorite advise for newbies on sailplanes. Just bump the sticks to make the plane to move. Don't push and hold the sticks to make movements.

[dwells]

Thanks Guz,

Is this because of response time? How long does it take for a Spirit to respond?

[rdeis]

Bumping helps prevent overcontrolling, but at the cost of smooth inputs. Both are important to learn.

I have never used a trainer on a sailplane, but different instructors have different preferences. The trainer boxes seem to be more popular with the powered crowd, I think because things tend to happen faster and closer to the ground with powered birds.

[Guz]

Kinda, beginners tend to fly like it's a video game, full throws no matter what. This will get you in trouble in real life. So I just recommend (also was taught this way) "bumping" the sticks to start off with. Actually I still fly by bumping the sticks or just little movements.

Also a good polyhedral sailplane (a bit forward CG balanced and trimmed, recommended for beginners) will fly nice and level with out any inputs. So... when you have altitude and are confused, just let go of the sticks. The plane should right itself.

Another neat trick for when you have caught a thermal "just right", let go of the sticks again. If you have it just right, the plane will stay in the turn and go up without any inputs :D I do this all time at my field. I actually put my arms at my side just to prove it to others.

[dwells]

If you hold the stick until you see the plane respond, is that too long. Sorry about all the dumb questions, i'm just trying to visualize this before it happens.

[dwells]

Lots of good info from all of you today and I appreciate it. I will relax and enjoy this if it kills me :D

[Hostage-46]

I used to tell my students learning to fly night formation to "wiggle your toes". It would get their mind off trying to squeeze all the juice out of the sticks and just relax!

I'm currently teaching my son, a video gaming ninja to fly. On PS3, there is nothing subtle about stick movement. I prefer a tight setup and RARELY move the sticks more the 1/4" past center. Much more is available if needed at slow speed or coming off the top of the zoom.

Finally, stop in at mikes hobby shop and take a spin on Real Flight. It's quite amazing and I'm using that with my son.

We were at the field a few weeks ago and he had a taste of a Bird of Time one of my buddies had out. We then went home, and setup the sim to fly the same plane. I was impressed with how it flew!

I learned RC the hard way, by myself. If I were getting into the hobby, I'd spend a few hundred bucks on a simulator at least until I could get the hang of things.

I bet there are all kinds of cheap deals on ebay.

[rdeis]

Lots of good info from all of you today and I appreciate it. I will relax and enjoy this if it kills me :D

Heh.. You sound just like me when moving into a new area-- you can't actually FLY until you get with the instructor this weekend, so you're filling the time by packing every bit of background into your head that you can!

That's a good thing, actually, so long as you're able to let it percolate between now and then and not get lost in the details when you are actually out there. :)

I tend to think of control inputs as "nudging" or "leaning on" the airplane. A little is all it normally needs.

[dwells]

You're right rdeis, I bought a plane and it's ready to rip, been tweakin everything for the right time, read everything on the net about the plane, the mods, the process, got great stuff today, etc. My only exposure to the sport was at the TNT in October...very impressive. Heck, I think I have sailplane envy anxiety syndrone :eek:... :D . I had set my CG back to a little less than 40% of the root from LE as described by Gordy Stahl but will move it back to the beginning spec, as you suggested.

[rdeis]

CG has a huge effect on the plane's behavior, both with stability and efficiency. Most of the time you have to trade one for the other.

With the CG back at 40% the airplane will be very sensitive to any disturbance in pitch. It will signal the lightest lift and climb like crazy because it's not wasting any energy on controlling itself. Which means, of course, that it's relying on *you* to stay stable and pointed in the right direction. That's great when you're an experienced pilot trying to squeeze out every ounce of performance out of the airplane that you can-- not so much when you're new. It's a lot safer for the both you and the bird when it's mostly taking care of itself...

[Hostage-46]

You're right rdeis, I bought a plane and it's ready to rip, been tweakin everything for the right time, read everything on the net about the plane, the mods, the process, got great stuff today, etc. My only exposure to the sport was at the TNT in October...very impressive. Heck, I think I have sailplane envy anxiety syndrone :eek:... :D . I had set my CG back to a little less than 40% of the root from LE as described by Gordy Stahl but will move it back to the beginning spec, as you suggested.


Don,

Be sure we can adjust the CG at the field, ie add or remove nose weight. The decalage, while important, will not make a big difference for the next few sessions so don't worry about it now.

We'll get her setup setup to your preference for follow on sessions.... I'll warn you now, ... just start saving for the Ava..... Barry has a house full of them and he's just a quick drive to Arlington :)

Dan

[dwells]

Hostage,

You're right, the flight sim is good stuff. I've flown it at Roy's Hobbies in Hurst and it's very real time. I have a demo on my laptop and fly a glowplane...can't afford the full setup but would love to have it.

[dwells]

I've got everything in my the box, not a problem. I considered changing the decalage, but more folks than not told me to fly it first before I adjust it. Can't wait to meet you and fling this thing. I know I'll learn a lot from you on this outing. And if we :censored: it up, it don't matter...got another one :p .

[BMatthews]

A good instructor will not fuss over you unless you're trying to crash the model. Instead they know that you've got your hands full getting familiar with the controls and so they'll generally tell you where to fly but leave it up to you unless you speak out that you have lost orientation. If you loose it and can't tell if it's coming or going just speak up "I've lost orientation. Can you tell me where it's going?". A good instructor will tell you which way it's flying to try to get you back in synch with it unless it's getting too far away in which case they'll take over before it goes out of visual orientation range.

As for control inputs it's great if you can moderate so that the stick barely moves at first. On elevator the response will be more immediate even with small inputs. However on the rudder the response of the model to roll into the turn can be painfully long for small inputs. But it WILL turn in. For example pushing the rudder stick only an 1/8 inch to one side will cause a turn but it may take up to 5 or 7 seconds for the model to reach the maximum bank angle that this much input will induce.

However you only need elevator added to the turn once the model is into the turn. So you push the stick an 1/8 to the side and at around 2 or 3 seconds you notice that it's starting to lift one wing. Still too early for elevator. But a moment later when you're sure that one tip is higher than the other it's time to ease the elevator back a hair.... Just smooooothly pull the stick back about an 1/8 inch.

Now on a glider the elevator is much more a speed control than anything else other than when you're doing aerobatics (later young padawan, MUCH later :D). So when you turn the nose wants to drop and the model speeds up. It's up to you to hold the speed constant by adding in some up elevator to prevent that or to respond to a noticed speed gain. Similarly if you find the nose coming up too much and the model slowing down in the turn you need to ease up on the elevator. In some cases where you notice the nose come up sharply you may need to jab in one of Guz's blips to lift the tail to avoid a stall.

Hopefully your instructor will go through all this with you. Or perhaps you've noticed it in the sim.

Sim time will help a lot but it's still not the real world. One of the most important and hard to get aspects is to keep your sense of orientation on the model. Get that wired and you're on your way. After that is to be comfy enough to expand your view so you know what's going on around you in terms of where your model is in relation to the field. I've had students so focused on the model that they had no idea if they were upwind, downwind or in Poughkeepsie.....

Most of all try to have fun.

[lincoln]

I don't think bumping is good, particularly with a Spirit. The Spirit's fin and rudder are too small for the short length of the fuselage, so it's not good to give it inputs that make it waggle.

I think it's better to hold the stick with thumb and forefinger. Then put in a SMALL amount of control input. I'm not kidding. Maybe 1/16" stick movement. Unless the air is rough, you will see the glider respond to this if it's set up ok. And once it does start to respond, you had better back off on the input to keep it from going too far.

What I see a lot with beginners is pitch oscillation. I'll tell them to push the nose down, but by the time they figure out what I mean the glider has stalled and the down input makes things worse. Then, since it starts to dive, they pull up too hard and stall it again. However, you can learn to anticipate this and put in small amounts of control for a short time to fix it. Probably not as difficult as it sounds, but it does take a little while. If the glider is slowing markedly as the nose comes up, that probably means the nose is too high and if you push it down a little very soon, you can stop the oscillation. Same thing but opposite response if the nose goes down and the glider is speeding up markedly. If you do it at the right time, these are very small inputs, and they are only required if the air isn't still or if you've been adding control inputs which upset the glider.

A number of people have told me that simulators have helped them learn. If you have some sort of control input device, there are some free, downloadable simulators out there which work fine. FMS and CRRCsim (which has a Yahoo group). I'm partial to the latter, but that may be because I know the authors. Also, I find it amusing to "fly" in a place I recognize, with our frequency board, outhouse, approximation of our terrain and trees, etc. Can also slope soar a simplified Cape Cod. If you don't have an input device, you can get a cable and use your transmitter. Or, at least you can with some transmitters.

But if your glider is ready and you have an instructor, go out to the field and fly. It's more realistic.

If you are having trouble learning, don't despair. I've had at least a couple of students (and probably more) who had trouble learning with their original choices, but did well after building (or buying used) Olympic 2 gliders. It's the best trainer I've worked with. But I know other people who have learned with some really crazy choices. The Spirit is NOT a crazy choice. Just not my favorite. (Ok, if you're curious you will find a few more emphatic posts than that by me on the subject.)

[dwells]

Great advice guys...thanks. I realize now that shoving the stick around is not the thing to do but instead watching the planes response small smooth inputs. last night I extended the stick on my Tx to max length to shadow my inputs and brought the CG forward .250". I think I can do this. Hope to try Saturday with Hostage as my instructor. I do hear that we have a winter mix of weather on the way but you can never tell in North Texas...wish me luck!

[2motheus]

I'll add another vote for the free CRRCSim simulator. I assume you have a joystick already. It's not realistic using the mouse or keyboard.

[Hostage-46]

Great advice guys...thanks. I realize now that shoving the stick around is not the thing to do but instead watching the planes response small smooth inputs. last night I extended the stick on my Tx to max length to shadow my inputs and brought the CG forward .250". I think I can do this. Hope to try Saturday with Hostage as my instructor. I do hear that we have a winter mix of weather on the way but you can never tell in North Texas...wish me luck!


Well, as long as it's not raining and too windy, we can have a few tosses.

Once you get that hang of the basics you'll just have to get used to the winds and weird weather. As my time is fond of saying, If you're afraid your skirt will blow up in the wind, ... try a new hobby :D

[dwells]

I hear you Dan, the weather around here changes in a heartbeat. Too bad we can't hit it today...it's beautiful out there!

[dwells]

Hey 2motheus,

I do have a joystick but not a Tx interface. I'll look at CRRCsim and give it try...thanks.

[O.L. Adcock]

"Hope to try Saturday with Hostage as my instructor. " Just don't hit his smoke! :)....O.L.

[dwells]

Heck O.L., I hope I don't hit his car :eek:

[Hostage-46]

I hear you Dan, the weather around here changes in a heartbeat. Too bad we can't hit it today...it's beautiful out there!


I was thinking the same, the boys were at Eastfield, can't wait to retire!

Winds come up tomorrow, but if the weather man is off, I could be coaxed into sneaking out a little early. You have my cell, give me a ring if it's not too crazy. But winds are supposed to be 15 to 20 until Saturday... but I've been lied to by the weather briefer more then once so thee is hope.

I can't believe you havn't just gone out and tossed the thing :) This discipline is strong with this one....

[dwells]

Shoot Dan, I'm stuck in the dungeon and get no daylight until the weekends. I thought about chunking it but just wanted someone skilled to trim toss it. Maybe I've read too much into it... :o

[Hostage-46]

Shoot Dan, I'm stuck in the dungeon and get no daylight until the weekends. I thought about chunking it but just wanted someone skilled to trim toss it. Maybe I've read too much into it... :o

You'll be glad you waited, take it from a guy who learned the hard way...

[Hostage-46]

Congrats to Don who soloed today.... welcome to the Hobby!

[rdeis]

Huzzah!

I'm sort of with you, Don. I've been flying since I was a kid but my Spirit launched and thermalled last Saturday for the first time in 12 years!

Fabulous weekend for flying all around! :D

[dwells]

Thanks Dan, I owe it all to you. I'm very proud to have 25 flights and a plane in one piece. I think it's important to have an instructor like you to explain the system and to take the time, from your flying, to help a newbie like me. Mike, Tim and Bill all seem like super folks with lots of good advice and I look forward to my first killer thermal. Someday I hope to teach someone green, like me, the wonder of this most amazing hobby. I can't hardly wait to get back to the field...cheers to you...

[dwells]

Hi rdeis,

Yes, I'm totally hooked now. It was about my 5th launch on my first day and I had about a 7 minute flight. South wind at about 10mph with some high clouds before the sun creating a rainbow and some hawks probably 500ft above me...I kept going up. Dan was saying "you got one"...I'll never forget it. I know it's no big deal and was just a stroke of luck for me getting up that high but the vision is burned in my mind. It's hard to share the experience with my family and friends as they just don't get it. It's okay, I get it, you get it and all involved in this get it...way cool.

Don

[ozmo01]

Congrats on the solo and thermal :D this was a great review as I have not flow a glider in a few years.

[bobthenuke]

Whenever I find someone who asks me to help him learn to fly I strongly suggest they pick up a copy of "Stick and Rudder" and learn what it has to offer. IMHO it helps tremendously if they first understand what they're doing and why.

-bob

[dwells]

Thanks ozmo,
It was a thrill to launch, soar and land by myself. I have a long way to go but I have confidence now and can learn from my own mistakes without destroying my plane. I encourage all newbies to find a good soul like I found with Dan Ahearn, VP of SLNT.org, to help you through the process. Again, cheers Dan...maybe this coming weekend at the 407. I'm dying to see your son's GL.

Don

[dwells]

Hey Bob,

You know, I hope to give the basics to someone someday and I agree that you can't read enough. I traveled through the net and learned all I could before the maiden but it takes someone with experience to settle your nerves and show you the system and show you that your plane "does fly". It was the biggest thrill for me to see my Spirit go straight up like an arrow and release at the perfect height and my instructor say "look, hands off...straight and level". I WILL return the favor...

Don