Full house ship setup - generically speaking

[oscillator]

Regardless of how you program your TX, there are several distinct phases (or modes) of flight for which you desire different characteristics of your sailplane. For sake of discussion, lets consider:

Launch
Thermal
Speed (or settings for transitioning sink)
Cruse (thermal hunting)
Land

While settings may vary from plane to plane, and even pilot to pilot, I am curious what settings most are using in the above phases of flight and how these settings were determined (i.e. did you just program what the mfg stated or was there some test that led you to this setting). Specifically, I am curious about:

Camber/Reflex - and is this just flaps, or flapperons too?
Aileron differential
Do you use flaps as ailerons?
"snap flap" or adding camber with up elevator and reflex with down
do you limit control throws in any of these "modes"? (i.e. so you can hold full aft stick while thermaling, etc)
Aileron/rudder or any other mixes you may use and how (or do) they vary for different phases of flight

Again, I am particularly interested in how these settings were optimized - like the dive test for cg.

Thanks!

[rdwoebke]

Osc,

These days, I like the Supra setup suggestions Dr. Drela put together.

But, a lot of this is dependent on the plane. For examle, a full house plane with a lot of dihedral or polyhedral you can turn more with the rudder, so that will possibly affect how you setup differential. And some planes you can't move the flaps up any so you can't mix ailerons to flaps. In general, when you reflex/camber (except landing) you move the entire TE together.

Some airfoils are specifically setup for camber, so say like on the Drela foils I think folks run thermal camber on a switch. Older foils where camber might not be "an exact science" I think folks run thermal camber on throttle stick or a slider.

Ryan

[O.L. Adcock]

Like Ryan says it's so dependant on the plane and the pilot. I'm running all the aileron throw I can get, no differential, with just enough rudder mixing so it feels good. 80+ degrees down flap, stabilizer mixing to taste. Running a 7037 to an RG 15 at the tip so I reflex 2-3 dehgrees on the flaps for "speed" and leave the ailerons (rg15) at neutral. For minimum sink (thermal mode) I deflex flaps and ailerons about 2 degrees. Thermal and speed all on one switch. For landing I don't like "crow or butterfly", I droop the ailerons maybe 5 degrees as the flaps deploy with throttle stick and rudder high throw rate kicks in with maybe 30 degrees flaps. Launching is simply 20 degrees or so pulled in on the flap stick with my presets in "speed", as I get ready for the zoom I take out the flaps with the stick (now it's in "speed"), round over the top and go to neutral search mode. I don't like having to mess with a lot of switches and probably spend 90% of my time in minimum sink/thermal settings. The only dual rates functional is rudder and only when the flaps are down. I find it takes a lot of time and trial/error to get each setting just right but it's time well spent......O.L.

[tonyestep]

Obviously the throws etc. depend on the plane, but one setup you should check out is the X-tail Pike Superior setup published by JoJo:
http://www.f3j.com/superior_throw.htm
Just about all the flyers I know who have a Superior X-tail have started with this setup and had excellent results. There's a lot to be learned from it even if you have a different plane. JoJo's V-tail setup on the same page works okay too, but most flyers I've talked to prefer the CG farther forward.
Samba also publishes a recommended setup of the Pike Perfect:
http://www.f3j.com/perfect/perfect_instructions_pictures.pdf
pages 3 and 4.
And Skip Miller has setups for several of his planes at this page:
http://www.skipmillermodels.com/setup_index.php

A general discussion of setup is at:
http://www.f3j.com/setup.htm

And here's another post that may help:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6442915&highlight=aileron+flap+coupling+drela#post6442915
and another:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=158021

For CG, check out:
http://www.polecataero.com/articles/cg-location/

There's enough info in the above links to keep you busy until the weather improves.

[tonyestep]

The links in the previous post refer to control surface setups.
If you're interested in radio setup, you'll benefit by reading the sailplane section of the 9303 manual:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/ProdInfo/Files/JRP9240-manual.pdf
and there's a valuable addendum by Joe Wurts on his setup at:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1432

The vast majority of guys, even those who don't use the 9303, seem to use a setup based on Joe's. I used it when I flew with a 9303 (even modified my transmitter hardware the way he recommended), and when I switched to Futaba 12FG I kept the same basic setup.

[tonyestep]

I discovered that Part 2 of the JR manual, the part that has the sailplane programming info, is not on their website any more, or if it is I can't find it. So disregard the link in the previous post.

However, their site does have the following helpful guide, which includes a lot of sailplane info:
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Articles/Article.aspx?ArticleID=1459

[becsta]

Oscillator,

I've found that I don't use a Landing mode for my full-house gliders - my landing configuration is available whether I'm in cruise mode, speed mode, or camber mode.

I'm starting to lean towards using a Launch 1/Launch 2 mode, though. "Launch 1" takes the plane through rotation to vertical, and part way up the vertical climb. Flick to "Launch 2", to take it the rest of the way up the launch, where the velocity is increasing, and building up the line tension, then flick to "Speed" mode to do the ping off the line.

When I pull down on my flap stick, I get flaps down and ailerons up for crow. I think there's a dead band at the top though, for just in case I pull the flap stick down part way during normal flight. I also have elevator compensation for the flap setting too.

[tonyestep]

Here is the 9303 sailplane manual page.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Support.aspx?ProdId=JRP9260**

scroll halfway down and there they are, 2 links to the manual in .PDF form. Worth a look even if you have a different radio.

[gklimber]

This
http://www.benodee.com/rc/jr8103_flap_program.htm
may be helpful for those of us with the 8103. The approach is interesting and the instructions are a lot clearer than those in the book.

Cheers,
jer

[tonyestep]

Here is a page of tips on optimizing aileron differential and landing setup from F3B team member and Soaring Masters winner Mike Smith:

http://www.usrainfo.org/teamusaf3b/5_6/html/sharon_pro_tips.htm

[tonyestep]

Here's my launch setup, cribbed in part from WC Martin Weberschock:

I have the JW setup with 3 positions for speed (reflex), thermal and cruise on one switch, and a separate switch for launch. The camber trim slider has no effect in launch or speed modes, which are the modes used for launch.

I use about 12 degrees flap, plus down elevator trim. You can set the elevator trim by going to launch mode while gliding around, then clicking in down until the plane mushes along but doesn't stall.

The towhook starts 1/8" in front of CG and gets moved back by experimentation. Rotation is determined by towhook position, so as you move it back the plane rotates better and better. But if the hook is too far back, the plane won't nose over into the zoom.

Start with the 3-pos switch in speed, launch switch in launch mode. Plane should rotate and pull hard but fly straight. If the plane veers off course, more down trim is needed. At the top (sooner than you think!) stomp the winch, flip out of launch and nose over. Not too much, just below level. Keep the pedal to the metal and pull up.

One more *important* note: snap flap. You're zooming in speed mode, which means reflex. The plane won't pull up enough unless you lower the flaps out of reflex briefly. You do this via snap-flap, i.e. elevator-flap coupling. There should be some in both directions: 1/16" up flap (on top of your normal reflex) when you push over, and enough down flap when you pull up elevator to make the wing camber slightly positive.

[becsta]

hmm... never thought about snap flap to help with the dip during the ping. Might have to try that!

On my Icon F3B, I can bend the wings somewhat at the bottom point of the ping (as I'm coming off the line) - I know I've achieved a good launch when I see the wing bend, then the ping is massive as the wings "bounce" back into position!