Experience Pro Build

[Whorges]

I am a happy new Experience owner. I got it from Soaring USA. Bob has been very helpful with tips on how to assemble it and provided all the needed parts (the wing push rods, clevises, servo frames come separate). I'd recommend Soaring USA. They're polite and helpful and know their products.

Radio gear: Hitec Supreme 8IIS, 2500mAh NiMH, 4 polo digi 4s, 2 HS 5125mg's, and the 3m wiring harness.

Assembly support information:

It's in German, but the pics are great!:
http://www.mibomodeli.si/slike/XperiencePRODE.pdf

David Jensen's RC Groups thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590779

Go to page 9 and see David's article:
http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/RCSD-2006/RCSD-2006-12.pdf

Another build thread:
http://www.flyquiet.co.uk/smf/index.php?topic=271.msg2718#msg2718

Radio Carbon Art's F3 building clinic.

This is my first f3 build so please feel free to provide advice and feed back.

[Whorges]

I cut the bottom surface of the wings to provide the needed push rod clearance by first putting in the provided control horns. The aileron horns need to be cut so they will screw far enough into the ailerons, but the flaps horns are fine as is. I put a piece of masking tape on the area to be cut and drew in the area to be removed. Then I roughed it out with a milling bit in my dremel tool. I went back with a diamond file to smooth the edges and fine tune the clearances. Mine is the carbon D box wing so there was no carbon cut in this step, but it's still a good idea to wear a mask. I also used the shop vac to suck up the dust as I used the dremel.

Next I drilled a hole in the trailing edge spar for the push rod to have a path through the wing. I went back with the files to make the hole big enough for the clevis to fit through the spar. Now the push rod can go from the servo through the wing to the flap/aileron control horn.

[davidjensen]

If you get a chance you should weigh the parts and compare them with the others that posted in the earlier X-Pro thread.

[Whorges]

I was waiting on the wing push rods to come in the mail so I moved over to working on the fuselage. If yours didn't come with the tow hook preinstalled I strongly recommend starting with that step because the other steps will position pieces which limit your access to the tow hook area.

I mounted the center section of the wing on the fuse and positioned the plane upside down. I marked the leading edge position on the bottom of the fuse and then measured back marking the 82 and 89 mm references on the fuse for the tow hook position. I also took the time to mark the 100-104mm positions on the wing for future cg work.

Using a set of calipers I measured the distance between the screw holes which retain the hook. I eyeballed the hook position and marked one of the hole positions and used the calipers to mark the other hole position. It is important to get the distance betwee the two holes precise because the tapered screw heads will induce a lot of internal stress if they are tightened down off center. After drilling these two holes I drilled two more holes to start the slot that the hook comes through. I used the dremel cut off wheel to cut the straight lines connecting these two holes and then filed the edges smooth. I also used larger dia drill to counter sink the areas for the screw heads to mate with the fuse.

I was worried the next part would be hard, but I opened the canopy, put the tow hook in the cockpit and tilted the tail down. The hook slid back and dropped right into the slot. Holding the tow hook I turned the plane upside down and put the retaining screws in.

Is there any need to bond the hook in or are the 2 screws sufficient?

David,
If I get a chance I'll pull out the scale. At a minimum I'll give the all up weight.

[Whorges]

I assembled the rudder ball link. Pretty striaght forward. This part may have been done for you on newer models.

Cut a slot in the rudder and the fairing where the push rod exits so the ball link won't bind. I used a milling burr with the dremmel for this.

Drill the hole and screw it in part way. I took the metal fastener off an envelop and bent it to a convient shape as a positioning tool for the nut. Then I used a bit of hot glue to tack the nut to the fastener. Flex the rudder for access and position the nut over the ball link and turn the ball link in, engaging the nut. Once it's got a couple threads break the hot glue joint to remove the fastener. Tighten things up and voila!

I used expoxy to glue the push rod to the ball link. Make sure nothing binds as the rudder moves through the specified 18mm of travel to either side.

Now that the push rods are finished on the tail feathers we can work on the servo ends.

[Whorges]

I made a servo tray out of 3/16" ply. The fuse is sexy with continuous curves. Whoa sorry getting off track.

Anyways, its tough to measure exact dimentions on those compound curves. So I roughed out the tray and then started multiple trial fits and sandings. You'll have it easier because you'll learn from my efforts; start at about 47mm wide and go from there until it fits the way you want. I really like David Jensen's servo tray with the switch and the onboard volt meter, so be sure to see his thread.

How should I prep the inside of the cockpit so that I have strong glue joints?
Which glue should I use?

[davidjensen]

Yes you do have to secure the push rods near the back of the canopy opening. I used goop so I could remove it if I needed. Be prepared to add 2 to 4 oz of led in the nose for balance so make provisions for the battery placement. Make sure you try to get the battery in and out with the servo tray tacked in place to make sure it can clear the servo tray. I hope your taking pictures so we can see the bling.

[pigly]

I have just finished my Xperience pro. It weighs in at 2140g (75 oz), a bit heavier than I had hoped - I had to use 100g (3.5 oz.) of lead, cast to the nose diameter. I was puzzled by the recommended hook position because my experience is that the hook should be just in front to even just behind the cg to get the best launches and as I said in an earlier post The recommended hook position is way in front of that. Eventually I compromised and it has a range of 79 - 99 mm from the LE. I have not flown it yet but will start with the cg at 104mm and the hook at 96mm just to be safe from pop-offs during the initial flights. I have followed the manufacturers recommendations generally in set up but have used more aileron travel and I like coupling flaps to ailerons. I have snap flap which I can switch in and out but am trying to work out a logic switch to switch it off automatically in launch mode. I use a Multiplex mc 4000 profi and this has almost complete programming freedom but it takes me a couple of days to program an F3J model with my 65 year old brain.
I also bought my Xperience pro from Soaring USA and found Bob very helpful too. Cost quite a bit to get it here to Australia. I found that the elevator pivot hole too small for the elevator joiner rod but the rod was a fairly loose fit in the elevator halves. I used a 6mm drill and auto cutting compound to slowly open the hole out. I also found that the elevator actuation horn had the hole in the wrong place for the 2mm joiner wire and that too had to be worked on, this time with a 1.86mm diamond bit just to extend the hole back without increasing the diameter - fiddly work but its right now.
I put my elevator and rudder servos one behind the other and ended up with not much space for receiver and battery, but just enough. I used 4 enerloop AA in a diamond pattern and started with a Multiplex DS IPD 7 synth but changed that to a Schultze 835 when the Multiplex proved troublesome
In summary, much more work than putting any of my Pikes together and not as good a finish but looks solid and should do the job.
There is little space for the D9 connector in the wing and I had to re-make mine twice before cutting off the top of the pins to reduce the height before soldering the wires on. That did the trick.
I use bicycle spokes as wing push rods. These have the nipple on one end and this secures the push rod in the servo arm. No need to machine back cleviss to get the required servo movement. bicycle spokes are also higher tensile than other push rod material but cuts a thread ok at the other end, where I thread on a clevis for the horn actuation.
Cheers, Paul

[dhauch]

I was puzzled by the recommended hook position because my experience is that the hook should be just in front to even just behind the cg to get the best launches and as I said in an earlier post The recommended hook position is way in front of that. Cheers, Paul

hi,
i've been seeing alot of the European planes latety with the towhook slot WAY in front of the c/g. :confused:

dh
www.rc-builds.com

[Whorges]

Lots of progress:
I built a bulk head to contain the balast slugs and to fix the push rod housings. The tricky part about this is getting the shape right. I used a 3x5 card to make a template and used the following considerations: make sure there is room to get ballast slugs into the tube; block the front of the ballast tube to retain the slugs once they're in the tube; leave room for the wing servo wires to go through the bulk head under the servo tray; and hold the push rod housings in position. I used 3/16 inch ply and shaped it with the dremel sanding tool.

Make sure you've done the tow hook 1st! Also I didn't want to be fighting with the wire harness so I got that in position for I started mixing the glue. I wiped the inside of the cockpit down with alcohol to remove any residual mould release wax. Then I used 5 minute epoxy mixed with thickening powder. 5 minutes isn't long so work quick or use something that gives you more time!

[Whorges]

I also finished the servo tray. I put the servoes end on end and had them secured before I glued the tray in. Again the wiring harness was in place as I glued in the tray. I used 30 minute epoxy here with the thickening powder. Some notes on the tray:

make sure your battery pack can slide in and out with the tray in;

consider servo positioning (3 typical choices here: end to end--gives more room for longer servo horns; side by side--takes up less space in the cockpit but less servo horn room; angled and scewed--a good compromise but the tray gets a little thin and weak looking); also be careful about height so any moving parts don't contact the hatch;

also, make sure your servos can come in and out in case you have to replace one and consider a place to mount the switch.

[Whorges]

I filed the elevator so it doesn't bind on the fin. This is straight forward. Once your elevator servo is conncected you can check the range of motion.

I'm starting to work on the wing again. I got my servo frames and push rod shipment in. The polo digi 4's fit in the frames nice after a slight modification where the top of the servo meets the frame. This was binding a bit.

Getting the push rods just right is tough:
Can anyone report the final length they are using so I don't have to keep doing trial fits?
Servo control out put goes toward leading edge or trailing edge?
Also the German site shows a bend in the push rod--is this for the ailerons or the flaps?

[Goinav8n]

Here are a few of the one I put together

Jeff

http://picasaweb.google.com/GOINAV8N/XProBuild

[pigly]

I got my plane in the air last week and am very pleased with it. I used the settings given on the Mibo web site as a base for my settings. I thought that the aileron throws would be a little small but they were just fine for me. I set it up with the cg 105mm from the LE and the hook about 99mm from the LE. With that setting and using my F3B winch and 1.25mm monofilament line the ship launches straight and true with a good ping. The wings bent though (there was about a 10mph breeze) but not too badly. It might be something to do with the wing joiners as they are a bit sloppy compared with my ultra tight Pike Plus and Pike Superior joiners that need sanding down to fit as they come from the factory. The X-pro joiners seem to be tapered a bit and they really need tape to keep the wing tips on.
The plane handles very well and can be flown down to a low speed without tip stalling. In speed mode she covers the ground well but I have not compared her with the Pike superior as yet. My feeling is that the performance of the X-pro is just as good as the Superior with better handling (still early days with the X-pro and things can only get better). I have had difficulties with reception and I am still playing around with antenna positions for my Schulze 835 receiver.
Cheers,
Paul

[Whorges]

Thanks for your input, feedback, and for sharing your building thoughts. I do intend to plump up the thread with pictures at some point. I have two hopes. First, to help others build their models, and second not to mess mine up b/c I didn't ask for help! Also, I hope to help others see how much/how little work is needed so when they decide what to purchase they have more information.

Lastest build notes: The flaps are working! I did a bunch of fiddly work on the push rods. I went with a solid piece of full length 2-56 threaded rod and clevises. The rod was cut to 2.6" The output drive on the servoes is toward the leading edge. I did not need to bend the flap push rods. Be sure the flap control horns are spaced precisely the same left and right as this is important for symetric movements. Once things fit the way you want, hook up your servoes, put some glue on the frame (I mixed in just enought balloons to make the epoxy easy to see for clean up) and position your servo so the push rod is straight and the frame screws are accessable (in case you ever need to get the servo back out). Some people tape the servoes and glue them in. The tape will peel off if you need to get the servo out. I found 30 minutes felt like forever, and 5 minutes was a little bit of a rush. I would not use CA for this as it can be a very messy step trying to flip the servo over and get it in the hole. I also prepped the surface by wiping it clean with alcohol.

[davidjensen]

I went the opposite way, from the X-Pro to the Superior. Paul is right on about the handling aspect with the X-Pro. The faster it went the better it felt. It's the exact opposite with the superior. However the Superior is superior in lighter lift and just general thermal flying. It handles better and is more agile at thermal speeds. My X-Pro was heavy (80 oz) but the Superior is 76 oz. so its not a major difference. I miss my X-Pro.

[slozuke]

I just recieved a new X-Pro x-tail from Bob and I am having problems finding info on surface throws. The Mibo site is under construction so I can't seem to find this info. I've seen the other X-Pro threads here on RCG but nothing is said about throws. Anyone?

[dhauch]

I just recieved a new X-Pro x-tail from Bob and I am having problems finding info on surface throws. The Mibo site is under construction so I can't seem to find this info. I've seen the other X-Pro threads here on RCG but nothing is said about throws. Anyone?


just put 1/2'' up and 1/2'' down on your ailerons, measured by the flaps.

put some throws in the EL & RUD, and put some high and low rates in your Dual Rates, and go fly it.

it will fly, you can make some fast adjustments with your Dual Rate switch, then start tuning to your taste.

On my first flight I have the EL trim window pulled up, if thats close enough in trim with the trim tabs, I go to the EL to FLAP mix and make a few adjustments in the air before I land.

it's all really a personal preference.

dave
www.rc-builds.com

[Goinav8n]

Here ya go. But adjust from here as these are starting points

Jeff

[cynjon]

Thanks Jeff! I'm getting started with my XPro build as well--perfect timing!

[slozuke]

That's exactly what I was looking for! Thanks Jeff!!

[Goinav8n]

There is a thread on here I did for the build too. I also have a bunch of pics for the build here: http://picasaweb.google.com/GOINAV8N/XProBuild#

Have fun as it is a good flying plane. Use a 5 cell pack and very little to no nose weight will be needed

Jeff

[slozuke]

How is the rudder ball link attached? Does it screw right into the rudder?

[davidjensen]

Here is my build log for the X-Pro

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=590779

[Goinav8n]

The ball was hollow inside the ruder area so I mixed up a sploog of epoxy and flogged cotton forced it in and mounted the ball in that. It never came loose

Jeff

[Bro]

Thanks to Jeff+David.... ;)

All the best!
Bob

[cynjon]

Figured I'd bump this thread for a question: Does anyone have a measurement of where the trailing edge of their elevator sits at neutral? A measurement from the bottom of the tail to the trailing edge would be greatly appreciated. I'm nearing completion of my XPro and I'm ready to cut my elevator pushrod to the proper length and I'd like to be close to zero trim. Other option of course will be to put the wing on and set the h-stab to zero incidence (assuming that zero incidence is right, I guess... :confused: )

Anyhow, if someone could measure where their h-stab sits at neutral, I'd greatly appreciate it!

[Goinav8n]

I dont have mine anymore as it is flying in Missori now. But I took and made the lenght so that the center of the elevator slot was the center. It was real close. I mean maybe only 2 clicks of up trim. I would measure it but done have the plane any more.

Jeff

[cynjon]

Thanks Jeff...That's where I would have started as well but there's always the possibility that the "smiley" wasn't cut exactly perfect. I'll probably just put the incidence meter on it and see how close it gets me. I appreciate it!