TD Practice Techniques

[rdwoebke]

OK, in this thread, DP suggested that a friend of his that is very good only practices a few times a year and only practices launching and landing and rarely does any thermal practice.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9023367&postcount=86

I asked if perhaps this is because his friend is so good at reading and working air that he does not need to practice working/finding thermals. He then suggested I should start a new thread, rather than mess up that thread that has been going so fantastic already. ;)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9041484&postcount=122

So, here goes. :) I'm looking for thoughts on how folks practice.

What I have been doing (and we should probably bear in mind I am a crappy pilot), is mostly try practicing likely contest tasks off a short high start or a short winch setup (I'm still working the kinks out of my winch, so perhaps that is another issue I have). I don't get much oppertunity to practice with an actual glider and winch, as I have these 2 kids and a wife that works weekends. If I get to practice off a winch once a month, that is about it. So, I'm wondering if when I have the winch/Psyko out, it would be better to practice just launching and then pop the flaps to setup for a landing approach. I can practice reading lift/working lift more frequently in the short flying sessions I can make with my electric sailplanes.

Thoughts?

TIA everyone,

Ryan

[jirvin_4505]

Hi Ryan
Just returned from a TD comp this weekend and practice is what I need.

Practice launching - use a data logger or how high for feedback. Get familiar with line stretch and launching.

Landing practice - practice comming down later and with more energy means less time close to the ground. This is a technique I noticed at the comp... The good guys were choosing to stay high closer to the the final time. They were at what I would call 2 minute height 1 minute out from the landing and the landings were approached with more energy relying on good flaps and technique close to the spot - the dork is in!

I need to practice thermalling at the extremes of my vision.

I need to practice thermalling in difficult windy conditions - when you wouldn't normally fly. Early and late in the day.

Find a flying buddy who can be a regular caller that understands your thermalling and launching requirements.

I also need to practice being organised and ready for the contest!

all the best- cheers Jeff

[jirvin_4505]

Another thought....
Nic Wright (former world f3b champ) was asked about practice for a contest - he said he would go out and shoot a bunch of landings in preparation..
Jeff

[schrederman]

Ryan,

To practice landings, first figure out a landing pattern that you can duplicate, over and over. Time it from when you consider your IP (initial point) is. Practice being at that IP at that time in the task, and flying that pattern every time. I do that by counting it down to myself and making my turns on or around the same seconds in the count. After a bit you'll figure out that this part has to be adjusted for the winds a bit. Something I'm working on is the use of the rudder just before touchdown to swing the nose in the direction of the tape.

Hope that helps... others will vary...

Jack Womack

[jirvin_4505]

..

To practice landings, first figure out a landing pattern that you can duplicate, over and over. ..snip.... Something I'm working on is the use of the rudder just before touchdown to swing the nose in the direction of the tape.

Hope that helps... others will vary...

Jack Womack

Good advice Jack... I also use a similar technique with a couple of landing paterns as I get close to the time. This gives me some feedback on the wind and conditions as i get closer to time. Useully this gives me a 1 minute pass over my head and a 30 sec pass over my head but I rethinking the multiple passes in respose to seeing the high energy landings last weekend.

re:- rudder use.. Joe W gave a seminar on model setup at the comp. In discussing landing setup he mentioned having proverse yaw programmed when ailerons are used on approach so that he gets both roll and yaw towards the spot when correcting.

cheers Jeff

[dharban]

I repeat this routine over and over:

1. Launch for max height.

2. Come down fairly quickly to a predetermined point about 100 feet overhead.

3. Go into a thermal hunt mode and try to find any possible thermal activity above about 50 feet. Work every low bubble for all it is worth. If I get to 200 feet, I break off and try again.

4. Set up and land with a uniform landing approach.

I try to get a lot of practice on low lift times of day.

I'm also trying to get develop the discipline to practice in high wind conditions (still working on that one :) )

I'm not a great pilot by any means, but I am finding that pressing hard at the skill of working low and light has improved my low altitude confidence in contests immensely.

The one thing I almost never do is fly out thermals for more than 5 minutes.

Still, the number one task is when I go out and launch short and shoot 20-25 landings.

Finally, if you want to improve, find a really good pilot who will practice with you and critique.

Don

[Hostage-46]

For me It's consistency and purpose. I too have kids and other hobbies. I figure I need to fly at least once a week to move to the next level, we'll see how this works:

I have a good group of local guys, access to a club winch trailer and a field 5 miles away... yep it is nice :D

we generally go out every weekend barring rain or winds over 20.

In a two hour session I can help setup the winch, assemble my ship, fly five timed tasks, help take the winch down, pack up and go home. Two hours a week is all I ask, momma and the kids have the rest.

First flight is to get a feel for the air, warm up, practice a few turns and setup a good landing.

Based on that I dial a number into the talking timer. I start with an easy task say 5 min. I set the timer to 5:30, start it, then launch, close enough, and I'm not fumbling with a stopwatch as I come off the winch. On the following flights I then step up the tasks to challenge myself.

Like the others said, I fly a consistent pattern. I'm just now getting to where I can figure out how winds and conditions will impact my ship. I'm not a expert model sailplane lander by any means, but I'm getting better. I subscribe to the technique I learned flying full scale with a tail hook on the bottom. It's all about the start.... I don't even bother trying to alter my landing time once I get into the pattern, whenever I try to make up a few seconds I give up points, I'm just no way good enough to vary my arrival times +or- a few seconds, maybe next season. Besides, when I hit the start at the right time and speed, I'm easily within 5 seconds +/-, for this season a scorable landing and a time within 5 seconds takes me up a notch.

I get to the abeam at 20 seconds and fly a carrier pattern, continued turn from the 180 with a 12 second final. I use visual check points at the abeam, 180, 135, 90, in the groove. I try to judge my energy level and altitude at each check point.

This season my plan is to fly 5 timed tasks and scored landings once a week. It's a goal. And to be honest, if I could do half of that I'd be pretty happy.

The other thing I'm doing now on contest day is getting to the field early and taking a practice launch. Then the tasks... just like practice.

[aeajr]

In the context of contest flying, I am not very good. I do fine as a sport pilot, floating around finding lift and can land close to my self consistently but that is not the same as putting the nose on the tape.

FWIW, when I am in practice mode here is what I do.

1) Try to determine the best launch settings and techniques. I may launch 20 times in rapid succession. Launch, circle once and land. Launch again. Over and over till I feel it as being right. Unfortunately I get sloppy when I am not drilling.

2) With every launch comes the landing. I have not worked out a landing pattern yet. At least not one that is consistent, like the ones above where I can count it out. In need to work on that.

3) putting the nose on the spot. I am trying to use the rudder more to get the nose where I need it. I often come in, right on line, but at the last second the nose will be pulled/pushed/blown off course and I need to get used to using the rudder to turn the nose, not bank the plane.

4) I have not been doing focused work on low level thermals as described above but I can see that I should be doing that.

This has the potential of being a useful thread.

[lincoln]

I think the best practice for contests is going to lots of contests. That is, if you're going to get serious about it. (I haven't been serious about it for a long time.) I would generally lay out a tape and then just mostly fly like I felt like, though I think some extra landing practice would be good. I almost always time my flights. A lot of times in a contest it helps if you are comfortable flying a long ways off, so don't make ALL the flights short ones.

I find one of my weakest points is negotiating a spot at the landing circle. People get very territorial, and don't necessarily clear out very fast when they're done, so it makes me uncomfortable. It also bugs me when they complain if I grab my glider out of the spot 30 seconds before they land.



question for Hostage-46: Any connection with Mike Hostage the sailplane builder? I'd almost think it was you except that I recall him being in the Air Force, not the Navy.

[Hostage-46]

question for Hostage-46: Any connection with Mike Hostage the sailplane builder? I'd almost think it was you except that I recall him being in the Air Force, not the Navy.

Nope, Hostage was the squadron call sign for VMO-2 Marine OV-10's, 46 was my personal "rocket number" (see the avatar)
Fly Marines!

[rdwoebke]

I repeat this routine over and over:

Don, I like that setup. I think I might try it the next time I get to practice with the Psyko (that will have to be after I get a battery for the winch). Bad part is seeing how things are going that might not be until April.... :( Hopefully this thread will have grown with even more useful info by then. :)



I have a good group of local guys, access to a club winch trailer and a field 5 miles away... yep it is nice :D

I live in a very rural area but am working on building more soaring pilots.


Find a flying buddy who can be a regular caller that understands your thermalling and launching requirements.



Finally, if you want to improve, find a really good pilot who will practice with you and critique.


Brian, are you reading this, these guys are saying you need to move to Huntingburg. :) ;)


This has the potential of being a useful thread.


Well we can't have that.... ;) Thanks everyone for chiming in. These are all good thoughts. I probably need to do a better job of having a landing pattern. On my RES ships I have been favoring the straight in pattern and on my Psyko I have been dabling with the teardrop.

Ryan

[davidleitch]

On and Under is the mantra you are aiming for. That is on time, and under 1 metre.

To do that requires that you be in the air after 10 minutes. Assuming that part is worked out, then it comes down to timed landings.

For electric gliders, the week before a contest me and a mate get out there at 7 am every day and do 10-12 2 minute flights. You have to practice with the clock in order to get the routine down.

If the two minute routine gets boring then make it 1 minute flights, that generally gives you practice at coming down from a greater height.

The best landing advice, for me, was the idea of flying three sides of a rectangle over the last 30 seconds. The downwind leg, for setting up. The cross wind leg (where visibility and perspective are better) for adjustments, and the final leg for hitting the time.

As Jeff says its mostly safer to come in with excess energy that you can burn off rather than too little.


Its easy for me to practice landings at 7 am but finding thermals then is harder. The two things I am going to work on this year for that are:

1. More hand launch practice
2. Predicting thermals before launch mainly relying on relative wind vector.

[davidleitch]

Oh and one more thing. Setup. The further you go the more you realise that having a reliable plane in a contest is a pre requisite to improve. Your model has to work every time, and just the way you expect it to. Its much easier to lose contests than win them. One bad round will cause a loss in any respectable contest, so consistency, and consistency under pressure is what it comes down to. One of the easiest ways to have a bad round is a model that pops off the winch, or has a double centring elevator or the CG moves blah blah. Set the model up well and make sure it stays that way.

[glderguy]

Spend most of your time flying off a short bungee. Split practice into thermal days/landing days. Try to thermal out as much as you can off those low altitude bungee launches, thermaling at low altitude forces you to really watch your technique, mistakes/poor technique dont bode well when down low.
Landing days go out w/bungee and try to shoot 20-30 landings in a session/skip any thermal flying on these days until youve completed your 20-30 landings. By then you will be too tired to thermal anyway, you get surprisingly tired after shooting 30 landings off a hard pulling bungee! If you want to seriously practice do it alone, eliminates the bull sessions, allows you to focus totally on your flying, gives you the time to shoot landing after landing after landing. During your thermal sessions if/when you thermal out off the bungee, dont waste your time specking out, get to a reasonable altitude, leave the thermal and either range out to find another one or land and do it all over again. Also, when landing on your thermal days, nothing wrong with using that talking timer and do a contest type landing, helps tie the whole process (thermal/landing) together. Except for fun flying specking out is a waste of time when practicing. Buy your own winch and use it now and then to practice your launch technique only......not to be used for thermal or landing practice. As contest time nears focus more on landing days than thermal days. You will know you are ready when begin to "feel" what your plane is doing rather than just visualizing it.
As you get more and more stick time behind you will find it easier/less time needed to prepare for a contest. If someone tells you they dont practice much before a contest that may be true but I am certain it wasnt always that way for them, they too in their early days spent countless hours out on the field honing their skills. If they want you to believe they just picked up a plane one day and started winning.......well........

[rdeis]

It's all about the start.... I don't even bother trying to alter my landing time once I get into the pattern

Hear, hear!

My instructor had to really beat that one in to my head, but once I got it I stated moving up the Sportsman ranks rather quickly.

Hit the IP of your pattern on time with excess energy, you can bleed the extra off after you make hte turn to final. I count time to get my turns right, but after making the final turn ignore the time and fly to the spot.

I get to the abeam at 20 seconds and fly a carrier pattern, continued turn from the 180 with a 12 second final. I use visual check points at the abeam, 180, 135, 90, in the groove. I try to judge my energy level and altitude at each check point.


Exactly.

Is the carrier pattern 2 90* turns or one 180*? Just curious...

I was taught to fly a 30 second pattern. On a calm day it's 10 seconds straight downwind from the IP to a sharp 90* to the base leg, 10 more before another sharp turn to final, and 10 to the ground. If you hit the IP with 30 seconds to go, landing on time is almost effortless. Which is good, because hitting the spot without smashing up the nose takes all the concentration I can muster even without worrying about the time.

With a breeze the ground speed is higher on the downwind leg and lower on the final leg, so you count the downwind leg shorter to compensate-- again, the time adjustment is finished before the final approach begins. If you're logging your flights, you can note the wind speed vs your count and landing score to calibrate your adjustments. If you adjust time for the wind correctly, it will almost magicly adjust the final approach glidepath to the wind as well.

When drilling, my talking timer gets set to 2 minutes. I launch high and practise hitting the IP of the pattern at exactly 30 seconds out.

[raed5]

In my opinion the best way to practice is to accomplish the LSF tasks, you will see how hard it is to land in a 10 ft circle, and how long a ten minute flight really is!
As for precision landing I use the 30, 20, 10 second approach: at 30 seconds you should be at phone pole height going down wind either to your left or right about 150 ft away from you. At 20 seconds turn cross wind, and 10 seconds turn to final. After a while of practcing you will start landing at 1 or 2 seconds off the clock.
I always practice using my talking timer set at 10 minutes and set a cone for my landing spot, if I land more than 5 ft away from the cone then I consider that a 0 landing.
Raed
Orlando Buzzards

[Hostage-46]

Hear, hear!



Is the carrier pattern 2 90* turns or one 180*? Just curious...



Abeam the landing point, gear, flaps and hook down in the final landing config, on airspeed (AOA), trimmed hands off. Left pattern, 600 fpm steady state 180 degree turn, 12 seconds in the groove.

The pattern works for the sailplane, bit the flaps serve as a means of energy management vs the the throttle.

I prefer the carrier pattern, constant turn over the 90 turn to base and 90 turn to final as I can better interpret the models energy state over the approach.

[tonyestep]

[QUOTE]...at 30 seconds you should be at phone pole height going down wind either to your left or right about 150 ft away from you. At 20 seconds turn cross wind, and 10 seconds turn to final.....
==============
Raed, this is a great way to learn to land and works for lots of contests, but at the Nats, the WSM, and some others you can't do it because there's a restricted zone downwind of you about 100' deep and you have to enter it from downwind. This is a safety measure so that pilots aren't flying over other pilots at low altitude. So this kind of approach has to be practiced too, viz. the approach from directly downwind, coming upwind high and hot, bleeding off speed and altitude, then hitting the spot.

[Soarhead00]

What size (rubber size and length) are you guys using for landing practice? Assume I'm flying an Escape or Pike Superior. I've tried one of the shorter, high modulus tubing setups with about 75 feet of line but I could barely pull it back enough to get a decent launch.

Bob

[oscillator]

I'm with Hostage-46 on the 180 turn. I do this with my full size Mooney and it seems easier to keep the flow or "groove" going as Hostage put it.

That said, my other full size planes is a Yak, and I always fly an "overhead brake" with it. Never tried this with the RC sailplanes, but it might work out nice. The overhead brake is commonly used in formation flying and also comes from the military. You fly to the approach end of the runway, arriving over the runway threshold at pattern altitude and flying runway heading. After crossing the runway threshold you "brake" left or right (depends on the formation) and fly a 360 deg descending arc to the runway.

The idea behind the overhead brake (besides looking cool) is you are always in glide range of the runway. So, for the RC sailplane, esp in the TD contest, you would head straight for the landing marker, preferably into the wind. If you are low on altitude or time, you could just land straight in. However, the idea would be to arrive directly over the landing spot, facing into the wind at a predetermined altitude (and time). You would then just make a big 360 turn to descend and land. Might be easier to judge and time than the downwind/base/final approach. Has anyone tried this (in RC gliders)?

-Mark
(who has learned the hard way that what works in full scale doesn't always work the same way in RC)

[raed5]

...at 30 seconds you should be at phone pole height going down wind either to your left or right about 150 ft away from you. At 20 seconds turn cross wind, and 10 seconds turn to final.....
==============
Raed, this is a great way to learn to land and works for lots of contests, but at the Nats, the WSM, and some others you can't do it because there's a restricted zone downwind of you about 100' deep and you have to enter it from downwind. This is a safety measure so that pilots aren't flying over other pilots at low altitude. So this kind of approach has to be practiced too, viz. the approach from directly downwind, coming upwind high and hot, bleeding off speed and altitude, then hitting the spot.

Thanks Tony for the input.
How do you practice for an approach like that?
Where does your sailplane need to be at 30, 20, 10?
Raed

[jimsoars]

My flying buddy Mike V and I usually practice together with short histarts. We normally launch and fly against each other like a mini MoM contest. Last man down is the winner. If we both get away we call it good and then the landing selects the winner. We have short AMA marked tapes (only to 80 points) best landing wins. One point earned for a win...

For landing practice we launch and call for each other. As soon as the landing is over the one flying fetches the histart while the other pilot gets his plane ready. Then rinse and repeat...

Tony made a good point about various contest having rules that change the pattern. To prepare for this we often practice what I call "intercept" patterns. In this scenario we think that our 12 second inbound mark is the important point. We practice approaching to this point from different directions and getting the correct altitude and airspeed at 12 seconds. We find that if we are at the 12 second point with the right energy and height - a reasonable landing will follow...
FWIW - Jim

[tonyestep]

[QUOTE=raed5]...How do you practice for an approach like that?...
===========
It's not that different, except that you don't get the checkpoint of passing yourself at 30 seconds, or whatever your favorite routine calls for. Ideally, if you're coming back with time to spare and not dragging back trying to stretch the time, you can come back from downwind fairly high and enter the downwind landing box at, say, 75 feet and off to one side.

Then you can make a Z-turn to get on final, adjusting the angle of the legs and flying speed so that you turn for final nicely lined up with 15 -20 seconds to go, depending on how far you still have to come and how strong the wind is. When you're downwind, everything takes longer, and when the wind is blowing the plane can take longer than you think to come upwind on the final leg.

Landings like this turn out best if your flaps are set up to really stop the plane dead when needed and your compensation is right so that you don't need to fool with the elevator as you work the flap stick. You fly most of the pattern with no flap, feed in just a little right before you turn for home, keep coming with minimal flaps, then add more as you get close to the tape or spot.

[jrerickson]

I fly the entire approach in launch mode. About a 1/4" of camber. The plane is trimmed out so it doesn't stall with this much camber, mixing in a tad of down elevator. It is a nice controlled speed.

Last minute speed corrections are done with the flaps, once again mixed with down elevator so no ballooning. As it has been said, a good landing is when the plane lands itself, running out of speed right at the end of the tape.

I uncouple flaps and ailerons for landing. Flaps do not follow the ailerons.

As far as practice, I try to set up in worst case scenarios, like downwind and crosswind. Landing into the wind is easy, but it rarely happens in a big contest, at least first thing in the morning. For a mild (4-5 mph) downwind your timing sequence should be brought forward by about 3 seconds.

John
LSF V #122

[Hostage-46]

Launch mode... interesting idea John, I think I'll try that.

[RBMartin]

Glderguy and others are on the money with short bungee practicing. As Daryl said in another post contests are won on landings and not thermaling. So you need to practice landing as much as possible.

For us mere mortals some thermal practicing is inportant to. But, you have to practice the right kind of thermaling. Specing out a glider off a winch is useless practice and if you cannot do that consistantly yet do not worry about winning contest becuase you wont.

Contests are won and lost when you are scrapping for air low. Anyone can fly in a thermal up high and make a time. We need to learn to handle the pressue of flying low and making choices of ranging out when you only have one shot. If you consistantly practice flying low then when bad air hits you, you will have a much better chance of riding it out and finding lift in another part of the sky even though you are below 150 feet.

Landings will still win the contest, but you have to make all your time to even be in the game.

Someone else mentioned flying at the limit of vision. I have to agree that this is good practice as well. You need to be comfortable ranging your airplane far out. There is training for the eye and primarily just building confidence that you can get the airplane back. I can think of several rounds I have flown in when I was at the limit of my comfort and I choose to come back. I ended up not making my time becuase I left the thermal early.

The last point I will make is learn your airplane. How it reacts in all situations and conditions. When it is windy how much ballast do you need? With that ballast and wind how does the plane slow down for landing? On calm days with no lift what is the best speed to fly at. If you find some light wind generated ridge lift knowing that it will support your plane or not wasting turns and looking elsewhere. etc etc

Bruce

[tonyestep]

John's post mentioned several details of his setup. I think that talking about practice should emphasize the importance of setup in all phases. There is a lot to be gained from tweaking the launch setup (must use a Zlog or some other objective measure). In thermal mode, there is a lot to be gained by getting the right aileron-flap mix, the right differential, and the right coupling settings. Note that John's landing setup changes his aileron-flap mix; differential and rudder coupling must change too. You hear a lot of talk about "knowing your plane," but several top flyers compete in and win major contests with borrowed planes. But they do know their setups, and are able to quickly get their setup adapted to an unfamiliar plane. This is where soliciting some expert advice, plus a lot of experimentation, can make a big difference.

[Kenny Sharp]

Just a note regarding the 30 sec. flyby and landing.
I use that system, and have noticed during practice that I sometimes scratch for that last second or two when I come up short. It sometimes results in a dork.

I have learned that during practice,it is better to just come up short...or land quicker, rather than risk damage to the plane.
Adjustments can be made on the downwind turn.

[little flyer]

I agree with DP on this one. Conests are really won in landing alone. In a big contest or one with a group of solid flyers, you don't have a chance at winning if you don't make your flight times. In your average OVSS contest, there are maybe 25 to 30 pilots. The top 5 to 8 pilots make all their time, what seperates the 6th place finisher from the 1st place finisher is landing points.

I "practiced" with DP and another F3J team member a couple of days before the team select. It was exactly that, a practice. We ran out our lines, put a few tows on each model so they were set up just how we wanted for launch. Off the top of the tow we started a 1 minute timer and focused solely on landings. There was no thermal practice, just launches and landings. I can honestly say that attending that practice was the best decision I have made in my soaring career.

To answer a couple of other questions, here is how I practice/set up my models.

Im not saying these are the best, just what I do.

Launch:

First find the CG you like. I personally like a pretty nuetral CG, but find what works for you using the dive test, inverted flight ect...
Put your plane on the winch with no launch camber at all. Keep on moving the hook back and back until your plane become squirly and stalls/zigzags on launch. At that point, move it a notch forward until its solid and stable all the way up. Camber just adds "pull" to the line, you shouldn't rely on it to cause roation. I have about 12* I think of camber for launch (Supra). At this point, its just learning the zoom. Lighter models will excelerate quicker and should be in the bucket for less time. The zoom should be very quick, just push a little bit past level to get rid of the line tension and ZOOOOM...

Flying:

Way more than can ever be writting :)

I fly with SOAR chicago and a lot of the guys here have short bungees from hose monster. They are great for shooting landings and the practice pays off when you need a low level save during a contest. If you can spec out from 60' then 600' off the top of a winch line is no problem.

Landing:

As someone else has already said, landing patterns are important. Mine is something like this. I want to be over head around 25 seconds and turning down wind, at 20 turning cross wind, at 15 into the wind. I use flaps to control speed and altitude. *You need to steer the plane in, not float it in.* With a similar landing pattern you will always be within a couple of seconds and get landing points.

Its practice, practice, practice. Always land on a watch.

Jeff Walter

[Daryl Perkins]

I went flying today. I didn't set out to practice, I just wanted to verify some new settings I came up with in a new program. (I had forgotten some programming tricks in my Stylus). Anyway... it was 4:30 in the afternoon, and I still had to go buy some long nails for the bungee. Got everything set up by 5:00 PM. No thermal birds marking anything, seagulls flapping as they flew by. OK, it was flat, I'll get the model trimmed, shoot a few, check the new program, and call it a day.

On the first launch, as I set up for approach, I took a light low level hit. I took a couple of wraps, big soft circles, and I didn't lose, but I wasn't able to climb. Since I was already at 20 ft., I decided to grab the bungee and launch back into it. I had just pulled the plug out and gotten whipped with it, so I wasn't able to pull much tension, so I could only get about 60 ft or so. I launched back into it. I worked that air for a couple of minutes, not losing, not climbing, watching how my model reacted with camber, excessive camber, less camber. What was too slow? How fast was too fast? I stayed with that air, recoring towards the strength, 1/4 diameter this way, half a diameter that way, oops, there's the edge, back this way... until it just disappeared or I'd lost it, and did the same thing over, and over, and over. The seagulls would come by, start circling, and decide the air wasn't good enough and quickly bail. I didn't mean to, but I was practicing. THAT's when I practice thermal work. When the air is so bad, even the birds don't want any part of it. If the air is buoyant, I'm bored in about 5 minutes. But when you can't stay up, when you can't really tell if you're in air, is that workable lift? That's when we can really learn something. I did that until the sun set.

Next time out, I expect the air will be super buoyant. I'll shoot landings then...

dp

[rdwoebke]

I didn't mean to, but I was practicing. THAT's when I practice thermal work. When the air is so bad, even the birds don't want any part of it.

Daryl,

Thanks for dropping in and sharing your thoughts. And thanks to everyone else that is sharing thoughts. Lots of great pilots who obviously know what they are doing are sharing techniques and ideas.

I like practicing in those kind of conditions too, but thus far the only plane that I can really, truely work ultra weak lift with is my Paragon. But, I'm sure I'll get there some day with the more modern planes.

Wish I could practice TD today, but with my wife working I'll be fortunate to get in a 10 minute practice duration/landing flight with my e-Allegro.

Ryan

[Daryl Perkins]

Lots of really good information in here. Most of these guys have given some serious thought about how they choose to practice.

Joe's the one who really taught me how to practice. Before big contests, we'd meet at the Rose Bowl and shoot landings to time. This can go so much faster with a friend. He can grab the bungee while you're shooting your 1 minute. We would do 3 in a row, and switch pilots. It helps to have someone close to the same skill level to shoot with, so you can push each other.

It's also important to realistically assess your own abilities, and focus on your weaknesses.

[dhauch]

i should have taken your guys advice and shot landings.

it was a pain getting my sailboat over the icebergs today. :)

dh
www.rc-builds.com