Scale(ish) Agusta 109 with custom mechanics.

[Lynxman]

I decided to order an Agusta 109 fuselage from http://stores.ebay.com/sylvian1975 and make some custom mechanics for it. The fuselage arrived today after a little over a week and I'm quite impressed with the quality of it. It's a lot bigger than my Eco 16, and the rotor head and blades I finished look to be the perfect size for it.

The fuselage has a removeable nose so I can actually fit it in my little MR2. I didn't expect to be able to take it with me in my car. It comes with scale-like plastic landing gear and lots of weapons and plastic detail. I'll start assembling the inside wood structure ASAP so that I can start designing the frame and mechanics. As far as I can tell the outline is fairly accurate, but I'm not an expert on Agusta 109 models. The manufacturer of this fuselage is called "The Wings Of Wind Model Co.,Ltd." and I have never heard of them before. All the instructions are in chinese but there are a lot of pictures so it shouldn't be a problem to assemble it. I'll modify it a lot any way.

The mechanics will use a 10 mm mast with a logo main gear and one way bearing. I will use a large pulley on the mast with a custom length from sdp-si to drive the tail rotor. If it's possible I will not use an internal tail boom tube. I will try to make the necessary structural changes to be able to use the fibre glass fuselage as a monocoque construction backwards.

It will not be a 2000 rpm monster, but a 1000 rpm scale flyer so I don't need strong servos or carbon fibre blades.

[hrbeta]

Nice project Lynxm... BTW, that's a great looking audio system, I only pray that you listen to jazz ;)

[Lynxman]

I listen to most kinds of music, including Jazz. :)



Here's the address to the manufacturer website. http://www.frp-rcmodel.com/ Looks like they make stuff for different helicopter and plane manufacturers.

[Lynxman]

I will modify the landing gear mounts a little. The original method dies not allow them to be removed later on, and I want the option in case I break them. I'll fire up the CNC again for that.

Here's a better picture of the fuselage. It's a really good looking fuselage. The weight of just the fiber glass shell is 690 g. the webshop says it weighs 1100 g complete.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Great find Lynxman! :D thanks for sharing :)

Looks like another killer project.

[Lynxman]

The full size Agusta 109BA (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1137111&size=L&width=1280&height=862&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2C cynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencu re%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2C pbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%20&photo_nr=)

[Lynxman]

I glued the woodwork and test-fitted the landing gear. Time to start measuring and drawing. I need a break so I'll continue tmorrow.

[Spidious]

That looks great, love the molded in details ! And the gear really sets it off.

[Tonystott]

The full size Agusta 109BA (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1137111&size=L&width=1280&height=862&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2C cynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencu re%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2C pbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%20&photo_nr=)
Wow! Are you going to build that military version? Talk about loaded with details!

[Lynxman]

The kit comes with lots of small parts like pitot tubes, cable cutters, antennas, thingys and doodads. The weapon mounts are also included. :) They're not painted though, and finding paint that matches the original green is going to be difficult. Maybe I'll change the scheme, og paint it in a civilian color, like metallic orange. lol

[Gadget01]

Lynx, you never fail to impress.

[Fred Bronk]

Will you do retracts??

FB

[aragon]

I was wondering that too, Fred, but looks like the 1:1 heli doesn't have retracts. (unless my eyes deceive me)

[Fred Bronk]

There are several versions, the one he has does as well as the A version I have.

The mains on his pivot up into the sides, mine swing up like most planes.

Mine uses a 4 blade head, the picture he shows has 5 blades and a few more upgrades!!!

FB

[Lynxman]

The military BA version does not have retracts. I have never seen an Agusta 109 with five blades. Do you have a picture. The reason the far blade in the picture I posted is leaning forward is probably just because the blades can lead and lag independently.


Here's a picture of an A version with retracts. Notice the difference in the landing gear and the hatch over the main gear and by the nose gear: http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1310748&size=L&width=1024&height=773&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2C cynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencu re%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2C pbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%20&photo_nr=

Compared to the one I'm doing. The hatch is secured with screws, the main gear beam is rigid, an there are no hatches for the nose gear: http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1137111&size=L&width=1280&height=862&sok=JURER%20%20%28ZNGPU%20%28nvepensg%2Cnveyvar%2C cynpr%2Ccubgb_qngr%2Cpbhagel%2Cerznex%2Ccubgbtencu re%2Crznvy%2Clrne%2Cert%2Cnvepensg_trarevp%2Cpa%2C pbqr%29%20NTNVAFG%20%28%27%20&photo_nr=

[Lynxman]

Progress report.

I have made templates for the bulkheads that the gearbox will be mounted to and am almost finished designing a gearbox/frame for it. I'll wait until I receive the Swift swashplate before I cut out the frame to be sure it will work. The frame is pretty unique for an RC model, and more like the way full size helicopter is put together. The main rotor will be tilted forward ~5-6° as per the full scale.

The first flight will be done with a little Hyperion Z3025-12 motor on 8S. It's small but it should be able to hover and fly around smoothly.

[Fred Bronk]

My be an optical allusion? seeing that 5 blade head. Sure can't find a picture of it!!

FB

[Lynxman]

I got the parts I was missing yesterday so I put together the head. I will continue with the fuselage structure and main gearbox later this weekend. I would like to finish the helicopter in the next week.

[Spidious]

I like that color gray. What is the name of it ?

[Lynxman]

It's just called "primer grey". It's a light grey color.

[Spidious]

Nice.
Hey I have been looking at my Hughes pictures and almost all of them are actually black and not gray. So I guess I will paint my stuff Flat Black..

I can remove the picture below if you want me to..

[Lynxman]

Yeah it looks black.

When you take the hub apart make sure you assemble all the parts in the same position as they were originally.

[Lynxman]

Oooh. It kind of big and has a lot of presence when the rotor is on it.

I'm done with CADing for now and will cut out some parts in a little while. :)

[Spidious]

That thing is huge !
Love the four blades !
And the gray head looks great on it...

[Lynxman]

The main gearbox and tail belt guide assembly. The black pulley is there to reduce the length of the belt as it's a little too long. It's the closest match I could find at SDP-SI.

I have to make another top bearing plate because this one has the swash plate anti-rotation bracket a few mm too far aft. Silly me, I forgot to change the drawing after I got the swashplate and measured. No biggie, I have enough 4 mm alunminium to make another one.

I broke a tap in the bottom frame. I hate breaking taps because it ruins the parts. I can still use it but I hate it when it happens.

[Fred Bronk]

Damn thats purtty :D

Nice work Lynx

FB

[Dogwoodtheone]

Very nice, that's looking sweet :)

[Lynxman]

I made the new top frame today. Here's a picture with one of the side frames removed to show the inside.

I have designed a fan for the motor that I will mill out of aluminium to keep it cool inside the fuselage. Hopefully it makes some noise as well. :D

[Gadget01]

Absolutely brilliant. I love watching your eye candy projects develop. You're like, hmmm... what if I could have this, or that.... and later that day you have spawned the parts for it. You've got mad skills and talent, man. I really dig it.

[Lynxman]

I met my goal for the weekend. I finished both the internal cabin structure and the main gearbox parts. Here's what it looks like in side after gluing the parts in. I'll add some more micro balloons and epoxy around the edges tomorrow. I test-fitted the gearbox and it's extremely rigid and everything lines up nicely (so far). The four small holes is where the aluminium tail belt pulley bracket mounts below the deck. I'm bringing the alu parts with me tomorrow and will paint them before work. I think I'll paint the inside of the fuselage in the same grey color, or maybe black.

I looks crooked but that's just the perspective playing tricks. :)

[Lynxman]

Painted. It feels like cheating when I used Ikarus grips and a Century swash plate.

Next up are the tail components. :)

[Happy|Harry]

looking good arny! :cool: and i wouldn't let using the swash and grips bother you at all as your work is simply stunning!

phil

[Lynxman]

I started cutting out the tail gearbox parts today. I'll post pictures later. I'll have to finish it to see if it's going to work in the fuselage and make a bulkhead in the tail boom to mount it on. I'm using a 5 mm tail shaft.

I'm itching really bad to start it up so I need to finish the rest fast. :)

[bat]

how do you paint a swash without gumming up the bearings?

[Gadget01]

how do you paint a swash without gumming up the bearings? very carefully :)

[Lynxman]

Here's what it looks like. I think it'll work, I'm able to fit it in the rear opening of the fuselage. The pitch mechanism is going to be a little different from the usual. The lever is made from 7075 aluminium and is extremely strong and 100% slop free.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Very nice work on that pitch lever :D looks very good.

[Lynxman]

The mounting plate for the tail gearbox. It will be secured to the bulkhead in the fuselage and the gearbox is then secured tot he plate with machine screws.

[Spidious]

Wow nice coin....Ops sorry wrong thing. Sorry I collect coins.

The gear box looks way up to par with LMW !

[Greybird]

Any chance of you producing an aluminum tailbox for the Eco?

[laughingstill]

Man, you sure do some nice work! Do you need a student Sinsay? ;) :D

[Lynxman]

It's taking longer than I hoped it would take to finish it. Mostly because I'm sitting on my bum all the time instead of working. Hehe

I don't plan to start production of any upgrade parts for the Eco. I don't need more work. :)

[Lynxman]

I stated making the bulkhead today and now I'm test-fitting before I glue it in. There's no room for the mounting plate I made but that's not a big deal. Belt tension can be adjusted by a tensioner pulley on the slack end under the main gearbox or by shimming under the tail box.

[Lynxman]

Today I glued the tail gearbox frame and installed the belt mechanics. The belt actually fits right away without any adjustment. I just installed the parts and it was perfect. That's pretty lucky. :D

Next up is to make the tail rotor hub and tail pitch slider parts I need, plus the 105 mm tail blades.

I've been playing with the thought of dsigning a scale(ish) retractable landing gear and painting it in civilian colors. That'd be cool! I can always do something like that later if I want to.

[russainred95]

Keep up the good work!

I got a few pics of a site a little while back. take a look at it. it might give you another sweet idea :D

your heli color looks nice :) i cant wait to see this finished :p I think the color should stay as is

[russainred95]

I posted a few pics. It looks similar to yours but the size is way bigger :) and the color is different.

[Lynxman]

In its current state it weighs 1930 g. That's with the complete drivetrain, motor, servos, main rotor mechanics and tail gearbox. In addition comes 400 g of rotor blades, 500-700 g of battery depending on capacity and maybe 50-100 g of scale details and windows. The final weight will be between 3000 and 3200 g.

What's the normal flying weight for a pod and boom 640 mm blade helicopter?

[Lynxman]

Here's a scale-looking tail rotor hub. I used 3D milling for this, not 2.5D and it's the first time I've tried it with aluminium. I had to use a conservative plunge rate and depth because the 3D CAM software doesn't support ramping. It didn't take long though. The roughing pass with a 4 mm ball end mill takes five minutes and the finishing pass with a 2 mm ball end mill 25 minutes. You can see how accurate my router is. The small edges in the surface are actually in the 3D model. :) I wasn't able to align the top and bottom perfectly though. It's off by ~0.1 mm which doesn't sound like much but it's very visible. It's still useable though. I just have to be very careful to align with the shaft hole when I drill the bolt holes in the ends.

It's 21.6 mm long. The thin cylindrical shape is where the feathering hinges are mounted. The thicker cylindrical shapes is where it's supposed to be teetering. I won't make it so taht it can teeter.

[Lynxman]

Finished. Now I just have to finish the main blades and make the tail blades. I will be able to test this weekend if I just want to put in the hours.

[Lynxman]

This is what the milling model looks like. In addition I made a 2D program for the shaft hole and accurate milling of the arm faces.

[russainred95]

Very cool!! How do you get the exact measurements? does the program do it for you?

[Lynxman]

I draw it to exact measurements. :)

[russainred95]

yeah that sure sounds like fun ;)

[Lynxman]

It's the natural way to draw with CAD software. You snap to a grid when you work so that everything that has to be aligned is aligned.

[russainred95]

It's the natural way to draw with CAD software. You snap to a grid when you work so that everything that has to be aligned is aligned.


yeah i know. what cad software do you use?

[Lynxman]

Discreet Plasma.

[russainred95]

I use something else.

[Lynxman]

I made these mast clamps today. They are made from 7075 (T6 I think) aluminium. I also made and glued the main rotor blade root doublers today.

Everything I need to test tomorrow is finished.

[russainred95]

those look very nice.

[Lynxman]

Ready for rigging. I'm charging a battery to use when I rig The main rotor controls.

The whole assembly in the picture weighs 733 g.

[Spidious]

WOW
Did you overdose on coffee staying up to work on it ?
It looks like you had the jitters when you took that picture ? :D

First out of focus picture I think I have seen from you ? ;)

That assembly looks amazing as usual !

[Lynxman]

I just fired it up without main rotor blades. It howls like someone stole a banana from a baboon at first and then whines like a turbine. I wonder what it'll sound like with blades. There were no vibrations from the tail rotor. I fired it up primarilly to check the tail for vibes.

[Lynxman]

Here's a short video clip. It's indoor so it sounds a lot noisier than it will be outdoors. Helicopters don't have indoor voices. :) The ticking sound is just a bug in the video software.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YElf060nFlo

[Lynxman]

i'm charging now. :D Will go out and track when it's done. I hope the blades work out ok.

Oh god it's heavy! Ot at least feels that way compared to my other models even though it's just half the weight of my Spitfire. :) With the 8S 3300 pack it weighs 3260 g. It'll weigh just under 3100 g with 2150 batteries.


It's snowing kittens outside so I'll have to drive to work to test indoors in the washing hangar. I hope I am able to fit the heli in my car. :D

[Happy|Harry]

good luck with the maiden :cool:

phil

[Lynxman]

It flies. And it sounds In-bloody-sane. A friend of mine happened to be in the hangar next door and thought he heard a helicopter fire up so he went over to the windows to look, but there were none so he went into the washing hangar where I was. It sounds very realistic because the high frequency motor sound is amplified by the fuselage since the fuselage is structural. I had to put in ear plugs.

First I tracked and balanced two blades, then the other two before finally all four. When I increased the collective to lift off the first time because I had trouble correcting accurately with left cyclic during lift off since I'm used to correcting to the right. Once I figured out what I was doing wrong I made small jumps just a few cm high. It kept creeping forward so I had to shut down and pull it back so I didn't get to hover much.

Suddenly it lost power. The 3300 battery was empty after just 2500 mAh. Crap! I hope they're not dying on me. I'm sick of lipos not lasting longer than half a year.

The blades work. :D

I almost forgot. The flapping hinge static stops work if I keep the collective up while it spools down. Cool! If I don't keep the collective up the head drops before the static stops so it droops a little extra. I made it so that it will never droop far enough to touch the boon though so no biggie.

[DigitronicsRC]

Thats cool, i like the scale body.. man in the first post in the picture, the canopy thats on the eco 8, where did you get the??? will you sell that to me.. I just got an eco 8 and that canopy is wicked...

Thanks Pm me

[Lynxman]

I built the canopy from balsa and lite ply. It's not for sale and it wont' fit the Eco 8. :)

You can read about the canopy and the heli here:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=680281

[aragon]

Video... :)

[DigitronicsRC]

well man that is a sick A$$ heli right there, will you be selling those frames??

Thanks

[Spidious]

How dare you post this and no video !

Do it again and post a video ! I can only imagine what it must sound like. I am wondering what my Hughes will sound like when I spool it up ?

[Lynxman]

Hehe. I had to do it in the air station. I don't think we're allowed to show off what it looks like on the inside.

[Gadget01]

I don't think it's good enough. Scrap all that and start over :)

[Spidious]

I agree with gadget, you have my address you can just send it all to me ! :D

[Lynxman]

I really should get cracking on the Sea King. I want an Ecureuil as well though, like this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/AS-550-Fuselage-for-46-50-size-T-Rex-600-NEW_W0QQitemZ300187736158QQihZ020QQcategoryZ123849 QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 The starflex rotor head looks like it would be fun to make.

Oh, and a Lynx Mk 86, and a NH90, and a...

[Greybird]

Off topic here. Are you married? Their is NO way my wife would let me spend that kind of time on building heli's. Just curious.

[Spidious]

I think you need to make a 5 bladed Hughes 500 D/E

[Lynxman]

You are right, Greybird. I'm not married. :)

There are so many Hughes models around and I want to make something different. :)

[Lynxman]

Keep it green or paint it in civilian colors?

[russainred95]

civilian looks pretty darn good.

[Lynxman]

The fuselage has typical 109C features, and the C often has a black area like this around the windows. I think I might paint it later.

[Spidious]

Red one looks nice !
Not to sure about the black part around the windows.

[Dogwoodtheone]

Would look pretty funny with civilian colors and rocket launchers :D

[Ginvent]

Question?

Those pictures photoshopped? or you have allot of time and paint?



I say anything that not army drab, This is a VERY nice machine and deserve and nice paint job.

I wouldnt say go all out but a 2 or 3 tine job would be nice

http://www.marksimages.co.uk/Images/G-TBGL%20AGUSTA%20109%20GY2.jpg
http://www.sloanehelicopters.co.uk/images/sales/a109.jpg
http://www.ringwayreports.co.uk/ZR322_SA_060906.jpg
http://www.finesthotels.nl/helicopters-aircraftcharter/agusta109ext_480.jpg
http://www.eckhel.com/agusta-109e-helicopter.jpg

[Spidious]

The white one with the red stripe is simple, but at the same time very nice looking !

[russainred95]

the blue one is just... that is very nice

[gravydrive]

I agree, the blue looks very nice. Probably a Med-Evac heli as that looks like a EKG readout...

[Lynxman]

Some nice military schemes. These are 109E (Power) models, not the older one I have, but I'm not fussy about that.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Sweden---Air/Sweden---Air/1282650&photo_nr=42&prev_id=1283417&next_id=1281252&size=L

http://www.airliners.net/photo/South-Africa--/South-Africa--/1211426&photo_nr=5&prev_id=1216217&next_id=1211291

Airliners.net seems to be having problems. It's a buggy site, hopefully the pics will work later.

[bat]

the desert camo looks sweet!

[russainred95]

both of them look good. lynxman, whatever you choose will still turn out to look good.

[gravydrive]

Gotta go with the forest camo. It looks fantastic.

[Lynxman]

I've been trying to perfect the balance of the blades since the trial run. I have primed them and sanded three times now. I'm waiting for the different paints to arrive before I put on the scale colors. Before I added the last coat they were equal weight to less than 1 g and balanced within 4 mm longitudinally in pairs. I also dismantled the helicopter again to inspect the components after the test and to paint the inside of the fuselage.

The test was performed at 1200 rpm. This translates into a 7200 rpm tail rotor rpm. A high main to tail rotor ratio is necessary because of the high torque from the transmission with four blades and only two tail blades.

There's a bit of high frequency vibration from the tail rotor. I will install a balancing disc like the full scale Agusta has. I will make a 1 mm spacer for the tail gearbox mount because the belt stretched a little and was looser when it warmed up.

[Lynxman]

Oooh... the paint I ordered arrived today. Lots of Tamiya spray paint. The colors I ordered were USAF tan, NATO brown, NATO green, NATO black, dark green, bare metal and aluminium. If I can just find some soft edge foam masking tape I could paint it in the South African livery.

[Lynxman]

Hmm. Removing the nose to take out the batteries is going to get old quick. I ought to make one of the cabin doors removeable/openable.

I was just out to test but managed to put the red blade in the yellow grip and vice versa, so it vibrated something awful. I'll go back out with the blades in the right positions when I have recharged. Hehe. :)

[laughingstill]

Video yet?

[Spidious]

Ugg no how you feel on the blades. After painting mine I did manage to get them within .1grams of each other

[Lynxman]

Damnit! I broke one of the blades. I started getting oscilations in hover because I was overreacting and when I landed the gear snagged on a lump of ice.

[Spidious]

Video please !

Even if it is just of it spinning the blades up.....

[Lynxman]

I don't have a video. I went out alone.

[Spidious]

Well back to the wood shop :rolleyes: