P.T. Boat conversion.

[785boats]

Greetings.
Inspired by Petes work on the Lindberg PT boat conversion, (great work Pete) I would like to convert this hull, which was recently given to me, into a model of an actual post war full size conversion. The owner was going to throw it out. He has no idea what it is. By the looks of the cabin outline on the deck it could be an Elco but I'm not sure. The length is 855mm (33-3/4"). It's pretty old, has a slight twist in it & the glue has let go in several places. All easily fixed. But I have a couple of questions for anyone that can help.
1)Can anyone tell what type of PT Boat it is.
2)Does anyone out there have any links or any pictures of full size PT Boat conversions done over the years. I just need enough images to sketch up some plans. Of course, original plans would be better, but I think that would be asking a bit much. With my limited computer skills I cant find much.
Any help would be appreciated.
Regards,
Paul.

[Reid]

well it looks like a Higgins 78ft to me big and Fat lets see... will post pics to compare

[CaptLee]

Considering your location it might be a Fairmile hull, but a nice cabin and an open well deck in the rear of it makes it a conversion. If it is a PT hull looks like a early Vic Smeed from the way the hull is laid out.

[Reid]

...

[Stu :)]

Looks like a Vosper to me.
I've attached few pictures of my Vosper 1.2m GRP hull as an example.

What do you want to convert it too? One of those 'cheeky' Iranian gun-boats? :p

Stu :)

[ptjim]

this is not a Higgins. If anything the bow looks like the PT 10 and PT 20 Class but the stern looks like an Elco Cruiser to me. Any more photos of the original kit? I will cry if it is a Marine Model Co Elco Cruisette or Sport

[ptjim]

I can see why you would say Vosper but PT's and Crash Boats did not have deadwood keels on them.

[cyclops2]

No fudging.

[Reid]

your right on a closer look it does that the little lip on the bow...

[cyclops2]

No Higgins or Elcos had any skegs or deadwood underneath.

Norwegian ? Russian ? Italian ? No real boat ?

I go for a Huckens PTB or a civilian hull. Can not really see the amount..... Build it into whatever you want it to be. :)

Rich

[ptjim]

she is not a huckins by any stretch but has the bow (clipper bow) of an Elco the stern does not quite look like the yacht stern of a post WWII Elco. As I stated before PT's Crash Boats did not have deadwood keels on them until after bought as surplus and outfitted with diesel motor's.
Interesting hull though. I am curious

[785boats]

Hi guys.
Thanks for all your responses.
I guess I should have said at the start, it looks to be scratch built as there are a lot of saw marks on the edges of the formers & keel etc. So, ptjim, there's no need to cry. But as I am uneducated in these things could you please tell me why you would have if it was a Marine Model Co Elco Cruisette or Sport kit.
If it is a Vic Smeed design, as you suggest CaptLee, then a Vosper would be a good guess as Stu points out (nice hull BTW)
After scratch building a 44" Higgins this hull just doesn't feel like one of them.
But what I'd like to turn it into is something civilian/commercial from the 50's or 60's. I could easily sketch up some cabin designs but I would like to model it on something that did or does still exist.
Thanks again for all your help so far.
Paul.

[cyclops2]

ANYTHING!

Builders License RULES. :)

[patmat2350]

The skeg was likely a use of "license" for installation of the single prop...

[cyclops2]

Go for that in a heartbeat.

[Stu :)]

The skeg was likely a use of "license" for installation of the single prop...

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I've seen pictures of my hull with a weed-wacker engine and single prop installed, so a installation of a keel was needed for strength.

Got any pictures of the "cabin outline" on the deck for us? Even a rough MS Paint drawing might help lift this mystery...

Stu :)

[ptjim]

I would cry just because I am looking for one is all. I have had the 1947 48 Deluxe Cruiser the 1948 40 Express Cruiser and had PT-761 for a while also.
Years back I seen a Marine Model Co Elco Cruisette Kit on Ebay and I let myself get outbid. Kicking myself ever since and I was not even interested in making models at that point.
Hope all is well with all

[Stu :)]

Jim - Any reason for wanting just a MMC Elco? There are plenty of other good Elco kits out there.

Paul - Thanks, but I had nothing to do with the hull making, it came part of a kit. I found my Vosper kit by mistake, I was looking for a Tamiya 1/72 Vosper to convert to RC and this kit came up on the local auction website for a somewhat bargain must-have price.

Stu :)

[ptjim]

yes there but they are typically PT kits not the Elco Yacht Division Models. I have enough PT kits. May have to scratch build who knows...........Like Mr Eaton said once I stop looking I will find one.
Have an Awesome Day everyone

[785boats]

Sorry for the delay. Thanks for all the replies.
Stu... In answer to your question, the only cabin outline view I can offer is the one in photo No 1. When you enlarge the image you'll see a red pen outline on what I assume is the hatch surround.
I still can't find any original civilian conversions on the 'wide wide world of web'.
Any ideas on where to look?
Cheers,
Paul.

[Stu :)]

Ahhh... I see... :rolleyes:

Now assuming that this is a Vosper hull and that red pen line is a the cabin outline, it's too far forward for a Vosper PT-Boat; however it looks about right for a Vosper RAF Crash Tender... which it might be.

Stu :)

[785boats]

Hi Stu.

Yes I suppose it could have been a crash tender or air sea rescue boat & not a PT boat at all.
But hey look what I found.
http://www.yachtbroker.com/powerboats/1944/83'-ft/dooley-shipyard/custom-motor-yacht/cruiser-(power)/-/34221/1457369.htmI was actualy searching the web for something similar to the Dauntless or Constellation.
A bit more searching to do now.
See ya,
Paul.

[ptjim]

funny they say the boat is new to the market. That boat has been on the market for years

[ptjim]

here are a couple more pics of some gun boats and crash boats. I do not think this hull was intended to copy these style boats either but you never know.

[785boats]

Thanks for the pics Jim. It's all food for thought. That sway back looks like a lot of chopping to do on the original hull. Maybe I'll draw up some sort of hybrid. There's already three on the drawing boards, three on the bench, & three hundred in my head. I've got to stop that.
Thanks again,
Paul.

[Huntsman]

I think its a Crash/Fire boat..either Number 93 or 94. Built to service the Saunders Rowe Flying boats in the 1950s.
Its a 46 footer at 1/16th scale =34".....your boat 33" & a bit!

:rolleyes:

[ptjim]

I have a plastic model of this fireboat. You see them on ebay from time to time when you search for PT Boats

[785boats]

Thanks Huntsman.
Your post reminded me of your namesake the Fairey Huntsman. So I googled it and seems that they race them. The hulls look similar on the water. I like the look of them & I've got some hot motors to choose from. Could be a fun conversion.

http://www.faireyownersclub.co.uk/default.asp?content=racing

[Huntsman]

Hi,

The Huntsman is a deep V hull quite unlike yours.

I think that you must settle for the fact that it is a crash boat; however this is where the "exciting" part begins..
There is speculation as to where the boats ended up, there were only two, and some reports are that they were seen in the harbour at Haifa! They had been armed and were being used as local defence boats.

It is quite likely that yours was built from a Veron or Aerokit, at 1/16th scale.
There is quite a following for these craft in the UK.

A Huntsman kit is available from a company called PRECEDENT.

:)

[Rob_P]

Sorry to stir the pot again but its not the Aerokits Fire boat or the Aerokits Torpedo boat. the hull sheeting / contruction method is quite different.

[Huntsman]

:) I concede that it is not an Aerokit; however I am 99% sure it is a Crash/Fire Boat.


:)

[cyclops2]

Close

[785boats]

Thanks again guys.
Even though the Huntsman is a deep V, as I said they look similar on the water . What I meant to say was from the waterline up. I just like the look of the superstructure. And since I cant find any actual conversions of PT boats ASR boats or crash/fire boats into civilian/commercial use, I might settle for something like that. I'm still looking for the real deal though.
Kind regards,
Paul.

[Stu :)]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to convert it to something else?
You do see some nice RAF Crash Tender boats occasionally in Model Boats (UK) magazine, it's not a common subject matter down-under and I'm certain the RAAF would have had them at one point...

Stu

[cdsc123]

Pretty sure that is a 63ft Miami HSL. This what us Brits call them (ex RAF launch from WW2). They were mainly built by Miami Shipbuilding Corp. They are also known as 63ft Crash Boats, or as AVRs, ARBs, ERBs, CRBs, RPCs, PTCs etc. depending on whether you are a South African, an Australian, a New Zealander or an American.
The hull needs a curved transom to be fitted to make it recognisable as such. I have compared your overhead shot with a GA drawing and the length to width ratio is about right, as is the outline and the position on the deck of the superstructure opening.
There is plenty of stuff on the 'net dealing with these craft ( see http://nobadlie.tripod.com/ plans are under Blueprints in the photos section) and paper plans are available for purchase (for the RAF version at least, here http://www.myhobbystore.com/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/1843/groupID/4/categoryID/80/v/7e0a7ec8-33cc-4d1d-a515-8a8dfdee1744 )
p.s. the RAAF had 20 of these which they inherited from the RAN (in US built model 314 configuration), ASR908-927. Each also had a name starting Air...(Hope, Faith, Speed etc). Halvorsens also built two. A few still survive as tourboats and yachts (Air Faith today; http://www.sailaustralia.com.au/airfaith.htm )
p.p.s. the Vosper Crash Tender/Fireboat hulls didn't have tumblehome.

[cyclops2]

Scott Paine 2 & ELCO PT 10 class

[Huntsman]

CDSC

"p.p.s. the Vosper Crash Tender/Fireboat hulls didn't have tumblehome."

:cool:

Yes thats the clincher..

:)

[jeepers1940]

I'm with Stu :) - why convert a nice built hull like that to anything else?

[785boats]

Hi there.
Stu, Jeepers1940.
There's a few reasons I wanted to try a conversion.
1) I was originaly under the impression that it was a PT boat & I have already built a 78' Higgins.
2) I've already built 5 Navy vessels. Don't get me wrong, I love the 'grey' ships.
3) Our club already has several PT, crash, rescue, type models sailing the seven seas.
4) I just wanted to model a conversion that happened to a full size hull after the war into civilian use for something different. This was mainly inspired by the brilliant work being done by Norgale on his 109 conversion.

cdc123
Thanks for the info & the links.
I like the Seafarer at the bottom of the first link.
I looked up an old RAN book & found some info on the 'AIR' series of those 63 footers. There's an excellent photo of Air Mercy, Air Trail & Air Speed running three abreast at what looks like top speed.
Air Sprite was built here in Australia in 1960 & was the last one in service in 1979 when she was stripped down & sunk, being used for torpedo target practice by HMAS Brisbane. That may be enough reason & history to model that one. More research to do now.
Thanks again guys.
Kind regards,
Paul.

[cdsc123]

Excellent indeed;
http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=2210234262&size=o