Army 96U / 35K UAV Operator

[ranger1942]

Hello everyone,

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I'm thinking about joining the Army as MOS 96U / 35K UAV Operator. I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has any experience with this MOS, or perhaps you know someone that does? I'd like to find out more information about the field before I enlist. I love the technology in the UAVs, and this MOS will complement my college education for post-Army employment.

Many thanks,

Mike

[Michael_UAV]

Hello everyone,

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I'm thinking about joining the Army as MOS 96U / 35K UAV Operator. I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has any experience with this MOS, or perhaps you know someone that does? I'd like to find out more information about the field before I enlist. I love the technology in the UAVs, and this MOS will complement my college education for post-Army employment.

Many thanks,

Mike
I was a Civilian Instructor Pilot for the 96U course at Huachuca a few years ago (I taught the soldiers how to fly the Shadow 200)...

What would you like to know?

[ranger1942]

I was a Civilian Instructor Pilot for the 96U course at Huachuca a few years ago (I taught the soldiers how to fly the Shadow 200)...

What would you like to know?

Hi Michael UAV,

I'm interested in knowing...

What are the requirements for MOS 96U / 35K (ASVAB, medical, etc)

What is the AIT (training) for the MOS like? Can you pick your airframe, or is it selected for you?

What is deployment like? What does the soldier do when he/she is not flying?

What are the civilian equivalents of the Army UAV operator...does this MOS transition well into the civilian world?

I'm interested in the FBI or Secret Service after discharge. Will this Army MOS provide experience for this type of job?

Many thanks for your thoughts and insights!

Mike

[Michael_UAV]

Hi Michael UAV,

I'm interested in knowing...

What are the requirements for MOS 96U / 35K (ASVAB, medical, etc)
You'll be required to obtain a US Army Class III Flight Physical.
I'm not sure of the total ASVAB score, but you need a GT (general technical) score of at least 110 to qualify for the course (this number may have changed over the past few years)

What is the AIT (training) for the MOS like? Can you pick your airframe, or is it selected for you?
They'll select the airframe. 99% of students get rolled into the Shadow 200 AVO/MPO course. There aren't many Hunter classes anymore. The course is somewhere in the neighborhood of 23 weeks long and includes Ground School, a common core class, target identification class, equipment assembly/prep / disassembly class, simulator work, and aircraft flights.

What is deployment like? What does the soldier do when he/she is not flying?
Rank dependent, but...
1. Cleaning things
2. Burning the latrine barrels (55 gallon drums of human excrement)
3. Guard duty
As an operator, you are subject to crew rest requirements, so this will help you not get slammed with too much extra duty such as KP, etc. However, if you're not on the flight schedule, they'll have you do whatever they need.

What are the civilian equivalents of the Army UAV operator...does this MOS transition well into the civilian world?

Currently there isn't a civilian license from the FAA or anything like that. Go to Australia or Israel for one of those... haha :D It transitions well into a civilian job, as long as you do the right networking and are a good pilot. Keep in mind that there will be many co-applicants when you get out as there are many many UAV pilots in all branches of the service.

I'm interested in the FBI or Secret Service after discharge. Will this Army MOS provide experience for this type of job?

Potentially, however out of the 3 letter agencies I know of flying UAS, those two aren't included currently. With regards to a normal agent position, I know a former LtCdr from the Navy who is now an FBI field agent, so military training does help to some extent.

Hope this helps!

[rclinks2002]

Hello, I am currently deployed to Afghanistan. There is a larger base about 60 miles south of mine that flies predators, and shadows. During the summer months (the most active) I spent a week down there in the building next to where the army uav folks stayed. For the week I was there, I maybe saw the shadow fly 3 or 4 times, and most of those flights were pretty short. The predators on the other hand (flown by the airforce) took off real early just about every day and flew for quite some time. I would try to go airforce if I were you.

As for extra duties and such. The army puts you where they need you. We call it the "detail landmine" You can be in the wrong place at the wrong time just about all the time.


On my base they took the field artillery unit, cut it in half and sent them to train the Afghan Army. Sort of frightening knowing that the folks that have never left the base are going to be training the Afghans, but oh well. Additionally, as a new soldier, you will most likely be pulling guard shifts regardless. Since UAV folks are always at larger bases, you may have to pull one or two, 8-hours a week shifts.

Have you graduated college yet? If you haven't I would go ahead and finish it. Maybe do ROTC and become an officer, the branch for UAV stuff is MI. I had to put school on hold in order to come here. (I am in the national guard)

If you have any questions please feel free to send me a PM or email.

Later
Ben M

[Michael_UAV]

Keep in mind that to fly a UAV in the AF, you must be a rated pilot / officer. The Army and USMC use enlisted folks to fly the aircraft.

The Navy has recently adopted warrant officers into the UAV field (WO's are "technical experts.")
(http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htatrit/articles/20080105.aspx)

As for hours flown...
The Army has a total of 361 unmanned aircraft in Iraq alone — including Shadows, Hunters and Ravens. And in the first 10 months of 2007, they flew more than 300,000 hours.

Army officials have fought to maintain control of their unmanned vehicle usage, saying their unit commanders can quickly launch the smaller systems, and respond to the immediate needs of soldiers who may be pursuing insurgents or trying to avoid roadside bombs.

When the Raven's massive numbers are not included, UAV usage across all the military services jumped from nearly 165,000 flight hours in the 2006 fiscal year, to more than 258,000 for the fiscal year that ended Sept. 30, 2007.

Those figures, compiled by the Pentagon, include some training flights, but the overwhelming majority was on the warfront. A majority of the flights are in Iraq, which has seen the biggest increase. But they are also used extensively in Afghanistan.

There, for example, the Air Force has hovered around 3,000-3,500 flight hours for the Predator each month.
(http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i_7otabxw8XLB8yCGhhlMhX7Vs7QD8TTEH400)

I'm not trying to sway you in either direction. Heck, I was in the Army for 5 years (air traffic control) and always said that I should've joined the Air Force. The AF has it "easy" according to the other services. If you have physical limitations that would prevent you from obtaining and maintaining a Class I flight physical for the AF (for manned flight), I would look into the USMC or Army as the medical standards are less for UAV pilots versus Manned pilots.

[UAV_PILOT]

Hello everyone,

Perhaps a bit off topic, but I'm thinking about joining the Army as MOS 96U / 35K UAV Operator. I'm wondering if anyone in this forum has any experience with this MOS, or perhaps you know someone that does? I'd like to find out more information about the field before I enlist. I love the technology in the UAVs, and this MOS will complement my college education for post-Army employment.

Many thanks,

Mike
I am currently a shadow pilot and the MOS is now 15W not 35K. This is the field to get into. It is constanly growing and growing. I am also certified to fly the Raven RQ-11B. What you learn in the school house is basics to give you general knowledge of how to operate the plane and setup equiptment. When you get to your actual unit is when you will really learn to fly, be a mission commander which can be a lot of work, have an oportunity to become an instructor operator (IO), or an standardization operator (SO) and mission planning. The field is no longer part of Military Intelligence but is now part of the Aviation Branch, that is why we are now 15 series MOS. Enlisted run the show and warrants pretty much handle freqs, airspace, notams and things to that nature. They don't fly. My advice to you is if you are planning on joining the army TAKE THIS JOB!! It's awsome!! Oh and even as a private or specialist you won't be doing a lot of crappy jobs on the side like gaurd duty or any of that stuff because of the nature of you job. There are regulations that governs how much time you get off after a duty day and how long you can fly. Now don't think that is always the case because depending what unit you are in you might have to do a lot of extra details.

What are the requirements for MOS 96U / 35K (ASVAB, medical, etc)
--Class 3 flight physical
--GT score is not what they are worried about it is one of the other areas you have to have a 110 or higher in and I can't remember which one
What is the AIT (training) for the MOS like? Can you pick your airframe, or is it selected for you?
--AIT is about 5 months long with 2 phases and you get FAA ground school
--Everyone that goes through learns Shadow and then if you are selected to train on a different airframe the you can
What is deployment like? What does the soldier do when he/she is not flying?
--Deployments are not bad you just fly A LOT depending on where you are located and what unit you are with and supporting
What are the civilian equivalents of the Army UAV operator...does this MOS transition well into the civilian world?
--Instuctors
--Field Service Reps and things to that nature
I'm interested in the FBI or Secret Service after discharge. Will this Army MOS provide experience for this type of job?
--Yup you can work for agencies like that flying UAS's like CIA on down to Border Patorl, there is a lot of job oppourtunities in this field

[UAV_PILOT]

Oh yeah and by the way, the army now has the warrior which is pretty much a predator and enlisted fly it. What I think is funny is Air Force predator pilots are mad cuz they are officers and an elisted guy is doing the same thing they are doing.

[William Bosco]

Someone told me that UAV pilots are responsible for many innocent lives being taken all because someone thought there was a target. How lame to fly rc weaponry against supposed targets. Think about another profession. Don't join the military establishment unless you can accept killing innocents.

[kd7ost]

Don't join the military establishment unless you can accept killing innocents.

I joined the Military and after my first enlistment, I joined again. I'm proud to have two honorable discharges. I was a Ground Station Satellite Equipment technician. In ten years of active duty, I never killed anyone. Innocent or otherwise. Never wanted to either.

When I joined I had to quit my job cooking hamburgers. College? Not an option for me. But I wanted an education.

Now I make good money. Real good. And that is because I joined the Army and applied myself. Somewhere between extreme viewpoints is reality. Anything in life is what you make it. You are in control of your own choices and your destiny.

Dan

(I know, this doesn't belong here. My apologies if I have offended anyone)

[rclinks2002]

Now I am sure that this is the wrong place to post this but oh well. I was in Afghanistan as an Infantryman. (If you dont know what I did, google it) I can say that yes innocent people occasionally end up getting hurt. That is the very nature of a war and being in the Military. Along with my stated job we conducted significant amounts of counter-insurgency operations. These included building mosques, schools, health clinics, and roads/infrastructure. I can tell you that the VAST VAST majority of civilians in Afghanistan believe the Americans and NATO are there to protect and help their country. I remember on mission in particular where we piled onto a chinook to go grab civilian casualties from a confrontation between two insurgent factions. I also remember off-loading and providing initial first aid (IV's NPAs and such) to injured civilians who were in fact in the cross fire between Americans and Insurgent troops. (With the help of a translator) we would ask them what happened, and lots of times they would state that they were forced to let the insurgents stay in their village because if they refused they would have been executed. Then you ask those same people, "Do you think the Americans did the right thing?" A good amount of the time they would say yes, "My child's wounds will heal, whereas if I (the civilian) refused I would be dead"

So off the tangent, Bombers, rocket launchers, artillery pieces, UAVs still have to have approval from higher to attack targets. The vast majority of the time a soldier on the ground has eyes on the target, and knows the true nature of the target. Also notice that usually high ranking (terrorists) are the ones who are the primary target of bombings. Put this into perspective, If you could go back in time and kill Adolf Hitler at a open gathering or meeting during WW2, would you potentially killing the people around him (within reason) in order to wipe him off the planet? I know I would.

I know this message is a little harsh or graphic, but that is the way it is. I would rather risk killing a few innocents rather than let them (the enemy whoever it may be) kill thousands of other innocents.

[kd7ost]

Sounds about right to me.

I was happy and am proud to have supported you guys. ;) I had the easy job. In fact, pat yourself on the back and imagine that it's from me. Thank you for your service.

Dan

[rclinks2002]

You are welcome, but remember, without the support MOS's there is no military. Its hard to call for help when the radio is not working. Thanks for your service.

[kd7ost]

You too are welcome my brother. Don't we all hope for a time when all people of the world can live at peace with one another?

Sgt Daniel Paulson
Signal Corps
525 MI Brigade
319th MI Battalion

But Argggggggg, I was in before the day of predominant UAV's. I would have had a different MOS.

[rclinks2002]

Haha,
If only the UAV operator school could have fit between 2 semester of college (summer) I would have done it. But then again, the job I had (in the guard) was a good experience, very, shall we say "enlightening."

SPC Ben Mitchell
1-158 IN
29 SIB

deployed with
1-32IN 10th Mountain
2-503 173rd Airborne

[JustinONE]

just curious, but is there really any future for UAV pilots?

I know many future UAV will be operated by computers, maybe your better off getting certified in computer programming instead.

[UAV_PILOT]

Someone told me that UAV pilots are responsible for many innocent lives being taken all because someone thought there was a target. How lame to fly rc weaponry against supposed targets. Think about another profession. Don't join the military establishment unless you can accept killing innocents.
What the hell are you talking about? How lame to fly rc weaponry? Loser.

[UAV_PILOT]

just curious, but is there really any future for UAV pilots?

I know many future UAV will be operated by computers, maybe your better off getting certified in computer programming instead.
Oh let me tell you, YES there is a big future for UAVs. Especially in the next 10 years they will be a hot item. The civilian job market for them will be very good. I wish people didn't talk so much crap about them. It's only because they don't know a damn thing about them but there is a lot of stuff that goes along with flying these machines. It's not just sitting behind a screen and flying a rc plane, it's not that simple. There is a lot of computer skills needed to fly and being as smart as a pilot to fly them as well. We have to go by the same rules and regulations manned pilots do. The only differance is we are not flying in the actual plane.

[JustinONE]

yes, I also know UAV's will be replacing a lot of manually flown craft, but I think a smarter student should focus on computer programming, aye?

[Michael_UAV]

What are the requirements for MOS 96U / 35K (ASVAB, medical, etc)
--Class 3 flight physical
--GT score is not what they are worried about it is one of the other areas you have to have a 110 or higher in and I can't remember which one
SC of 105 or greater (SC = Surveillance and Communications—VE+AR+AS+MC)

What are the civilian equivalents of the Army UAV operator...does this MOS transition well into the civilian world?
--Instuctors
--Field Service Reps and things to that nature

Jobs are out there, but I must say that since the beginning of the war, many 'operators' have been trained. Those that have chosen to ETS have been filling the job ranks with manufacturers and contractors.

My advice is: Don't burn your bridges -- be nice to your FSR's -- always strive to learn more -- impress your Civilian counterparts. If you're a dirtbag and burn your bridges with attitude, you'll be hard pressed to find a position as a civilian.

Many employers are requiring Private Pilot Licenses for their UAV operators. (notice I keep saying 'operator?') Many are also requiring Bachelors degrees as well. Simply having trained in the Army as a Shadow 200 AVO doesn't get you very far in 2008. You'll need to distance yourself from your peers, such as becoming a unit SP.


I'm interested in the FBI or Secret Service after discharge. Will this Army MOS provide experience for this type of job?
--Yup you can work for agencies like that flying UAS's like CIA on down to Border Patorl, there is a lot of job oppourtunities in this field

Technically it's GA-ASI Contractors flying the aircraft with DHC CBP agents operating the payload. The requirements to fly for GA-ASI are: (1) FAA Commercial Certificate with a current instrument rating and ability to maintain instrument currency; (2) three hundred (300) hours as PIC; etc.

Oh yeah and by the way, the army now has the warrior which is pretty much a predator and enlisted fly it. What I think is funny is Air Force predator pilots are mad cuz they are officers and an elisted guy is doing the same thing they are doing.
Not technically true -- the AF Pilots may be upset that the Army is flying a fixed wing aircraft above 6,000 feet but not because their officers are doing the same thing an enlisted guy is doing. The Warrior (as delivered under LRIP1) will be auto take/off and land - point and click flight from a One Station GCS. The AF Predator Pilots have stick & rudder and utilize this to accomplish take-off and landing. Reports have also indicated that the majority of Predator Pilots only switch to manual mode periodically in order to rest -- they prefer to fly the aircraft with the stick. Now the GA-ASI GCS is capable of point and click waypoint navigation, but many choose not to fly it as such.

It's not just sitting behind a screen and flying a rc plane, it's not that simple. There is a lot of computer skills needed to fly and being as smart as a pilot to fly them as well. We have to go by the same rules and regulations manned pilots do. The only differance is we are not flying in the actual plane.

Actually, that's pretty much it. As UAS progress, they are getting easier and easier to operate. Imagine -- you're flying a system that won the TUAV contract in 1999. A few things have changed since then, but I wouldn't say ease of flight has changed. Now don't get me wrong -- a monkey could fly a Shadow. It's a very simple system to operate. My point is that the systems are becoming easier to fly. There are things on the horizon that will blow your mind, young lad.

Now, you're absolutely correct in that you need to know the 'rules of the road' with regards to airspace and flight.

yes, I also know UAV's will be replacing a lot of manually flown craft, but I think a smarter student should focus on computer programming, aye?

yup... :D

[UAV_PILOT]

Michael UAV, Yeah I know about the warrior and I know how it works and everything. I have been to the site where they train and right now they are using downed helicopter pilots and civilians to take off and land. Soon enough when the new block comes out it will be automated take off and landing. I know a few people that fly it. And I found out a lot of info on how to fly predator for border patrol and yes you do need a certain amount of flight hours, IP time and commercial or private pilots license. And yes AF pred pilots hate that army enlisted fly UAV's bigger then a raven. lol

[Kwesdog]

I have been a UAS operator (primary airframe shadow 200) since 2004. I been down range and have also been flying them CONUS in restricted airspace. I am IO qualified and recently went warrant. If you have any more questions let me know.

Harry

[ghee-grose]

Hey folks, just stumbled on this thread. Very interesting! It's good to see so much traffice about Army UAS on here. Shadow's rule!!!! :D

Love the UAS program. Love what it's doing to save lives in OIF/OEF. Love you folks that are operating and supporting these systems!