RealFlight/KnifeEdge Forums

[Johndou]

I apologize in advance if this is the wrong place for this topic. But, I felt it related to “Simulators” and is important enough to discuss.

I own RealFlight G3.5 and have been a member of the Forums on KnifeEdge Software’s webpage since Aug. of last year.

Jim Bourke had responded to a reply that I had made on the KnifeEdge forums webpage. I had noticed that one particular user seemed to yield more power then even some of the admins and I essentially questioned him as being affiliated with KE Software. As an example he had known that the IP address of one User was the same as another - one user with two different user names. Jim had responded to say that the particular User that I had questioned had no affiliation with KE. Something quite unusual for the General Manager to response to a post. I then asked Jim how this person could have the information that he did and be capable of doing what he had done on the site if he was not affiliated with KE. Jim's response was short, not at all to the point, sarcastic and a bit disrespectful - although he did suggest that the discussion be taken off-line. To which I responded with a PM (private message) directly to Jim Bourke asking him essentially what I had been asking all along - how could this user know ... if he was not affiliated with KE?

I was immediately banned from the site.

A very immature response and completely unprofessional. Although I guess it pretty much answered my question.

To be lied to by Jim Bourke and then when called on his lie to be retaliated against is so far beyond professional that I would consider it childish.

I may be only one person but the people that I fly with, the clubs that I belong to and the new people that I meet and train represent far more then just one person.

Why would the President, General Manager of a company want to retaliate against a customer and place the reputation of his company in jeopardy over such a trivial matter?

By the way when I asked why I was banned this was the response:

Hi John.
The reason your account was removed from the Knife Edge Forums is because it was determined that trying to convince you that a fellow forums user is not affiliated with us is not a worthwhile use of our time. You are "representing" Knife Edge just as much as anyone else on the forums is, except that when you repeatedly make false claims and accusations despite our efforts to correct them and treat other users (including Jim Bourke) with disrespect and sarcasm, you are misrepresenting Knife Edge.

Adam Taylor
Software Developer
Knife Edge Software

There was never a response to my allegation. Okay, maybe I was a bit sarcastic. “Sure Jim, rrriiiigghhtt, he’s not affiliated ... so the how did he know ...”
As I understand it now, I was to take Jim’s word for it and just drop it... even though I “knew” otherwise. It’s obvious that the guy’s a “spy” hired by KE to watch the Forums. If I’ve noticed it, then I’m sure several others have too. But, why? Why jeopardize your job, your career, your company over something so trivial, when a simple response would have sufficed? “He’s not affiliated with KE he got his information from .... an admin at KE when he called to complain ...” or whatever the truth is. Instead I got “... is not affiliated with KE ...”; “I’m not here to change your ‘feelings’ about another user ... take it offline ...” When I followed those instructions I was banned from the site ... strange. Or, is this normal for Jim Bourke?

[RickDelten]

Jim Bourke is also the owner of "RC Groups.com" (this forum) so good luck with that!!

[Johndou]

Jim Bourke is also the owner of "RC Groups.com" (this forum) so good luck with that!!

I know. :D



oops, more sarcasm ... ;)

[LouieB]

Sounds like sour grapes on your part... so what is your purpose in posting your gripe here?

I have never had a problem with KE or RCG ... airing your gripe here resolves nothing for you and brings into question your motives.

You could have just let it lie .... but YOU decided to bring your complaint here.

Leave it at KE ..... your moaning is not needed here.

[Johndou]

Sounds like sour grapes on your part... so what is your purpose in posting your gripe here?

I have never had a problem with KE or RCG ... airing your gripe here resolves nothing for you and brings into question your motives.

You could have just let it lie .... but YOU decided to bring your complaint here.

Leave it at KE ..... your moaning is not needed here.

Thanks for your perspective Louie. I didn't mean to sound like I was griping. What I wanted to do was to show how a customer was treated by the President of one of our R/C simulator software developers.

I have no sour grapes towards KE or RealFlight. Actually I hold no animosity towards Jim Bourke, I'm sure to some people he's a nice guy. I just thought that his actions where totally unprofessional and I that others might be able to learn from my experience.

By the way, I need to clarify that KnifeEdge has no affiliation with Great Planes, RealFlight or Hobbico except as a vendor. Jim Bourke holds no management position (or any other position for that matter) in the Hobbico corporation. That information came to me today directly from Art Pecsh, Senior Manager, Service and Support, Hobbico.

[Jbull]

Johndoe,

Everytime you make a post it seems it is too offend someone, here and on Knife Edge. There are page after page of examples of this on Knife Edge. Maybe you should look in the mirror for the problem. :rolleyes:

Jbull

[Johndou]

Johndoe,

Everytime you make a post it seems it is too offend someone, here and on Knife Edge. There are page after page of examples of this on Knife Edge. Maybe you should look in the mirror for the problem. :rolleyes:

Jbull

I'm sorry that you feel that way Jbull. I have to tell you, I don't feel as though I have a problem. My intent here was not to offend but to inform.

Could you give me an example of a post where I've offended?

Do you consider this posts intent to offend?

Do you consider J. Bourke's actions appropriate for a company President or General Manager?

If so, PM me and we can talk about it.

This "community" that we share is a very small one. It has a rather small amount of buying power that over the past several years has been monopolized by two companies. Customer support is already very important and as that monopoly takes a stronger and stronger hold it will become even more important.

[jbourke]

It's unfortunate that you are no longer welcome at Knife Edge's site. Your slate is clean here at RCGroups, John, and I hope you can keep it that way.

Jim

[Johndou]

It's unfortunate that you are no longer welcome at Knife Edge's site. Your slate is clean here at RCGroups, John, and I hope you can keep it that way.

Jim

Yes, it is unfortunate that I'm no longer welcome at KnifeEdge. But, I'll get over it. I never posted much there anyway ... nor have I posted here much.

I have no intentions to "dirty" my slate here, anymore then I intented to dirty it at KnifeEdge. Of course, as far as I'm concerned I didn't dirty it there either.

My understanding of the events and subsequent actions are posted here. If and or when you'd like to address those events and actions I'd be more then willing to listen.

"With communication there is understanding..."

john

[Cheekers]

I have many hobbies and interests and spend a lot of time on forums and message boards dedicated to them. It is not unusual for forum moderators to have policies governing what you can and cannot say on their boards and to other members of said boards nor is it unusual for them to ban individuals for certain things they say. Presumably the main reason for the management or content is to prevent the eruption of flame wars which is common in these cases.

But we should all be reminded that these forums are not a public venue where freedom of expression is unlimited. They are owned by individuals, or companies, or associations. An internet forum is not the same as a public square where you can stand and say whatever you want to whomever is willing to listen.

[Johndou]

I have many hobbies and interests and spend a lot of time on forums and message boards dedicated to them. It is not unusual for forum moderators to have policies governing what you can and cannot say on their boards and to other members of said boards nor is it unusual for them to ban individuals for certain things they say. Presumably the main reason for the management or content is to prevent the eruption of flame wars which is common in these cases.

But we should all be reminded that these forums are not a public venue where freedom of expression is unlimited. They are owned by individuals, or companies, or associations. An internet forum is not the same as a public square where you can stand and say whatever you want to whomever is willing to listen.


Cheekers, I realize I'm a bit late in reading your comments, I don't come here and read this forum very often.

You make some very good points, points that everyone should be aware of.

The reason that I was banned from the KnifeEdge Forums had nothing to do with their "Rules of Conduct". Those rules exist for a reason and like most people I understand that reason. I broke no rules, insulted no other users and incited no "flame wars".

What I did was to ask the owner of the forum, (the manager of the company) a question that to this day he still refuses to answer. Other then to say, "...he is not affiliated with KnifeEdge...". In other words, take my word for it.

What's interesting in this particular case is that Jim has apparently taken this personally. In virtually every case where an individual has been banned from the KE Forums, they have been reinstated within a week or so of being banned ... that's not the case here.

No rules were broken! Yet, this user was banned by the owner of the site - I think the message that Jim is sending is pretty clear ... :D

[Ade]

John i am 100% sure you are not the only one to feel that there are people in this world that have not comply with their own rules.

Ade

[jbourke]

John, I was clear as day. You don't have to believe me. But I don't have to let you clutter up knifeedge.com or rcgroups.com with ridiculous paranoid assertions, either.

Jim

[Johndou]

John, I was clear as day. You don't have to believe me. But I don't have to let you clutter up knifeedge.com or rcgroups.com with ridiculous paranoid assertions, either.

Jim

There's no need for insults Jim. Stooping to that level only validates the impression you leave with most people as being ... well, you know.

I made a simple accusation: "OpXXXX is obviously affiliated wih KnifeEdge."

You responded to that post stating that: "OpXXXX was not affiliated..."

So, I asked the obvious questions; "How could he know that two users shared the same IP address? How could he have an entire thread removed from the forums? How could he be the only person with a negative veiw of an individual and suddenly that individual was banned?"

To which you responded; "I'm not here to resolve your feelings about another user. I ask that you take them offline."

When I took it off-line, you banned me...

That's what you consider: "...as clear as day"?! You're avoiding the question. I know it, you know it and most of the people reading this know it. You're so afraid of the obvious answer that you've banned a user from one of your forums, and taken four times the bandwidth and time to clutter your websites - the very reason given as to why you banned the user. It's obvious that I wasn't banned for fear of cluttering your site. You've done that more then I could ever hope to. This is retaliation, pure and simple.

And now, you call me paranoid?

It's not just obvious to me, Jim. It's obvious to a great many ... or at least it was. I see that OpXXXX has toned down quite a bit since my accusations. I've had a number of emails and PM's from a large number of people agreeing with my statements. (maybe not large in your circles - about a dozen KE users) Unfortunately - or fortunately as far as you're concerned - they won't say anything for fear of retaliation. The same retaliation as you've shown in this case.