How long did you take to do some advanced 3D/inverted maneuvers?

[mc_heli]

Hello guys,

I'm a beginner on the RC/Heli world, but I'm definitely hooked for life.
With only 4mo. playing with the G3.5 and a Blade CP Pro, I can't wait for some extreme 3D action (I'd take some mild 3D action too for now).

I was hoping to hear from everyone on how much time it took to see some great maneuvers since your very beginning on the hobby...

I'm aware (thanks to all your postings) that the BCPP stock is not the most powerful machine for 3d, but my issues are mainly in mastering inverted orientation on the SIM. I can hover and move around fairly well while inverted nose-in ONLY, I'm also OK with most if not all maneuvers not-inverted... and if you discount the fact that my BCPP has no HH Gyro, I'm crashing once every 2 or 3 flights (I do risk a lot on my flights) which I think is a fair crashing rate for my experience...

Mc_Heli

[PG 378]

I have been flying for alittle over two years.
This vid was shot back in September.
I am flying a Miniature Aircraft MXR Razor 600E.
Enjoy. :)

http://creationseminar.net/images/PG%20and%20CY%20Sept%2007_0001.wmv

[mc_heli]

Wow!!! That is some great flying... and what a powerfull heli!!!

[jgoodwin]

I was flying for 11 months before hovering inverted. Flips, rolls, Tic-Tocs, etc a couple of months before that. Spent two weeks on the sim hovering inverted before trying it for real!

[Paul Susbauer]

It took me 2 months for flips, inverted hovering....did that for a month, took a year and a half break from helis...came back and was 3Din' in about another 3 months...

Honestly if you take your time, practice up high, etc.. you won't crash. Just do not fly beyond your skill level. Thats what I did and I had a very painless 3D learning curve. I learned initially on a borrowed Hawk 4, then after my 1.5 year hiatus put a Sceadu Evo .50 in the air. 31 gallons of fuel later, I had my first crash when someone flipped on a transmitter.

--Paul

[cudaboy_71]

it took me 8 months before i inverted. but, it was well into the 3rd year before i was confident in all orientations (fast forward, fast forward inverted, fast backward, fast backward inverted)

IMO this is absolutely necessary before moving into the true 3D maneuvers and staying in control.

[mc_heli]

Thanks for your input guys, that is what i was thinking it should take... about a year depending on how much you "train". It has been a month since I started this thread and I can tell you that I made some great improvements. I'm now very confident with FF on both my BCCP and King2 and I'm doing much better inverted on the sim (a month ago I couldn't hover for 10 seconds). Right now I'm training inverted backwards on the sim, and as soon as my new motor comes in, I'm be putting all this inverted training to the test...
I'll post the future crash pics (that is the only constant in this hobby, everything else is a variable)

[medtech]

I'm amazed at some of you guys flying inverted after months. I've had my turd box corona 120 for a year and a half and can barely hover normal in all orientations. Granted i don't fly alot and rarely use the sim. I'm going to be buying a new heli this spring, either a hurricane 550 or trex 450/500. Do you think the learning is quicker on a good cp heli or are you guys just born experts?

[cudaboy_71]

I'm amazed at some of you guys flying inverted after months. I've had my turd box corona 120 for a year and a half and can barely hover normal in all orientations. Granted i don't fly alot and rarely use the sim. I'm going to be buying a new heli this spring, either a hurricane 550 or trex 450/500. Do you think the learning is quicker on a good cp heli or are you guys just born experts?

you're not giving the sim enough credit. i'm definitely not what you'd call gifted. i suck at video games, and can be kinda clumsy. but, i have logged well over 1000 hours on the sim in the past 4 years. it took me about 8 months to get inverted. at year 2 i was completely comfortable with all aspects of forward flight and upright hovering. year 3 i started inverted circuits and backward flight. now i'm working on inverted backward flight (i do it regularly...just getting comfortable with it will take some more time).

you can do it. but, it's a commitment of will and a little bit of stubbornness....and definitely an investment of time.

[matvy]

I'm flying from April 2007
Summer: FFF and stall turns
Autumn: loops, flips and rolls
Now: learning inverted hovering, stall 540
Next to learn: tic-tocs, inverted flights, backward flits, funnels...

[RobinBennett]

Instead of measuring it in months and years, how about hours of flight time?

I've been flying my MiniTitan for about a year but that's only 150 5-minute flights, or 12 hours. I can now do a pretty good inverted hover (nose-in only) but was doing loops, rolls and flips about 6 months ago.

By comparison I learn to hover (all orientations, the normal way up) in about a month, but I was flying half an hour each evening (HBFP in my garage) so that month was about 15 hours of flight time.

[edible_engine]

i had 5 years on the sim, then 4 months with the real thing and this is where i got to:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efuRikOMHgQ

Unfortunately that also includes 11 crashes, so i gave up for a while! my new heli is built but is currently at Nurnberg toy fair waiting for a good thrashing when its back!

[mc_heli]

From my last post almost 2mo ago, I'm hovering inverted in all orientations (but not too comfortable when tail in), inverted stall turns,inv figure 8s, have done a few inv backward circles, got pretty good at backward flips but still not too confident at side flips. I started the hobby about 1y and 2mo ago. I've been averaging 3 to 5 flights a week with 4 packs = 8 hours avg of flight in 2mo. But I'm in front of the sim every chance I get, 30min every day of the week and up to 4 hours on a weekend = 52 hours in 2mo.

My first 8 months were on a Blade CP Pro, then the King 2 and 3mo ago I got the Trex450s. I would never recommend anything other than the Blade CP for the beginning (with a HH Gyro on it, of course), mainly because you can repair almost any crash in 15 minutes flat, main blades can be in really bad shape before you need to replace them, and bigger helis are somewhat overwhelming.

IMO, flying helis require training your reflexes, and that takes time and practice.

[Paul Susbauer]

Yup....the old adage, practice makes perfect is true...after a while, a lot of it is muscle memory. You'll find you'll do one maneuver, then transition to another one, and always do that same routine. I do the same off angle roll/forward flip to nose in inverted, with an immediate push out to a backwards upright....

--Paul

[StorM_GmA]

interesting topic! I'm not at the 3D stage yet, just trying to fly the King 2 but I noticed that most ppl is talking about the sims. Are the sims so good for learning 3D? If yes, which sim you're using? I don't want to interrupt the topic but I think it will be a valuable information for everyone like me who might read this topic and wants to practice in 3D flights! Just include the sim you're using in your replies (if you want of course!)

[cudaboy_71]

IME the sims are absolutely imperative to accellerating your learning curve. I've only been flying 3.5 years...but, without the simulator i guarantee i'd only be hovering around and doing basic circuits still. i just wouldnt have the courage (or bank account) to try anything more aggressive without some prior training.

I learned to hover/orientations on RF G2...then upgraded to G3/3.5 which has taken me all the way through upright and inverted backward flight. But, i'm finding the realflight lacking in the physics department in giving good training on funnels and other knifeedge maneuvers...especially maneuvers with transitions (it's too easy on the sim).

for that reason i've recently changed to phoenix, which is a lot more realistic...and, i find myself progressing at the field much quicker.

good luck.

interesting topic! I'm not at the 3D stage yet, just trying to fly the King 2 but I noticed that most ppl is talking about the sims. Are the sims so good for learning 3D? If yes, which sim you're using? I don't want to interrupt the topic but I think it will be a valuable information for everyone like me who might read this topic and wants to practice in 3D flights! Just include the sim you're using in your replies (if you want of course!)

[jgoodwin]

interesting topic! I'm not at the 3D stage yet, just trying to fly the King 2 but I noticed that most ppl is talking about the sims. Are the sims so good for learning 3D? If yes, which sim you're using? I don't want to interrupt the topic but I think it will be a valuable information for everyone like me who might read this topic and wants to practice in 3D flights! Just include the sim you're using in your replies (if you want of course!)I am using Reflex and I have 14 months under my belt and am doing inverted tail first circuits / funnels. I did not have a good sim for about 6 months of that and regret it. I would never have gone to inverted hover if I had not been able to practice on the sim for 2 weeks before hand...

J

[subarus]

I think to achieve reasonable progress I need to make conscious distinction between Training Session and Performing Session. A training session is very boring to watch but fruitful, for eg. only inverted hovering tail in from side to side for hours. Don't expect applause when training. The objective of these sessions is to familiarize the pilot with a particular maneuver/orientation he is weak at. Find a weak spot, train until the weak spot is eliminated. Training sessions can be risky and prone to crash, don't train at crowded place, nobody is interested to watch you mime for hours anyway. :)

A performing session is the time when you show people what you can do. Impress people, sometimes amuse them :), exchange ideas, learn from each other.

I noticed its harder for experienced pilots to indulge/invest in training sessions because of the expectations set upon them to perform everytime they go to the field.

it goes without saying, simulators training is essential. Your ability on the field will lag sims. Set reasonable lag time as goal. For eg.. if you can do clockwise circle at field, and you are able todo CCW in sims, push yourself todo CCW at field within a few weeks. This is a reasonable expectation and upon achieving it, you will immediately feel motivated and hungry for more progress.

for some maneuvers, the lag time will be very long for whatever reason. Don't be discouraged.. read-up, ask questions, observe.. email questions to experts all over the world. In this case, most likely you have not mastered the pre-requisite for the maneuvers. when met with learning plateau, ask questions and discuss with fellow flyers.. it will take a very long time if you try to do it on your own. you need to maintain your motivation for training, once you lose it, you won't progress.

Find ways to motivate your own self to go through the rigorous training. reward yourself with upgrades :) , new birds etc

always tell your good self.. if people can do it, why can't I?

[jgoodwin]

subarus, Very well said. I think that information applies to pilots at all levels.

I always tell the guys to only step out of their comfort zone a little when progressing. Like when practicing something they are not good at. If they are not feeling it (we all have off days) I tell them to just fly in their comfort zone and enjoy it.

J

[Jet Mechanic]

I started flying RC in 2000 and got RealFlight Deluxe very soon after. I have only flown airplanes up until 2006 when I bought a T-Rex 450 SE. In the past I would mess around with helis on the sim every once in a while but mainly flew airplanes. At that point I could hardly hover a heli. One day I had a long talk with one of the heli guys at my feild and after that practiced hovering the helis on my sim for 2 hours every day for a week. After I was able to hover, I was on the sim alot practicing flying the helis around and soon got into flips. Thats when I bought the T-Rex. It all really progressed since then. Now I can do tic-tocks, rolls, loops, flips, and inverted hovers an inch off the ground. The sim is absolutely crucial for learning to fly a heli. If you want proof, I saw a kid who could not have been any older than 8 years old who was flying a T-Rex SE V2 at a skill level not very far below me. When I read about these kids that can to that in magazines I couldn't believe it and thought the writers were exaggerating. Until I saw it with my own eyes. I asked the kid if he plays alot of video games and he says not anymore but he did when he was younger. He also had only been flying helis for just about a year. I asked him how he was able to fly like that and he said, and I quote "Sim"

Ohh I forgot to mention, I use RealFlight G4 now.

[vespera]

Kids of course learn everything way faster.. I'm only 24, and I'm quite jealous of what teenagers in this hobby are able to accomplish in short periods of time. Everything past inverted flight is still a dream to me after 2 years of flying practically every day.. but I met someone only 6 years younger than me that was doing inverted flight by his 6th month, and now after a year of flying can do tick tocks and nose-in/nose-out funnels with ease.

Damn kids :)

[airsoft1779]

Kids of course learn everything way faster.. I'm only 24, and I'm quite jealous of what teenagers in this hobby are able to accomplish in short periods of time. Everything past inverted flight is still a dream to me after 2 years of flying practically every day.. but I met someone only 6 years younger than me that was doing inverted flight by his 6th month, and now after a year of flying can do tick tocks and nose-in/nose-out funnels with ease.

Damn kids :)


don't be jealous... you had your chance when you were a kid. im 14 and was doing figure eights on the 3rd battery on my first cp heli. my 7th battery i was performed my first loop and roll.. without crashing. Like i said... you had your chance!

[Jet Mechanic]

No, we didn't have a chance the way you kids do now. You have the simulator to practice on whenever you want. So you are able to learn quickly and become better pilots much faster.
When we learned to fly, there were no simulators and when there were they were useless because the physics were way off and the graphics were horrible not to mention the POS transmitter that it didn't come with.

[jeepson33s@yahoo]

And we didnt have heils that were 200 bucks...

[beeflyer2]

The sim is absolutely crucial for learning to fly a heli.

No, it's not. I've been flying helis for about 2 years, started with a Blade CP. I am currently working on tail-in inverted hover with my T-Rex 500. I can do tic-tocs, piro-rainbows, rolling tail-slides, low level flips...NEVER used a sim. I logged just under 1000 flights last year.

You just have to advance slowly. I'm sure a sim would help you advance faster, but I would rather put in "real" stick time than sit in front of my computer at home. Maybe it's because I do that all day at work?

[clicky]

I wouldn't make hard role of using sim or not.

I am sure that everyone agrees that sim can be 'cheaper' and 'quicker' option - but what is the point? Some people just enjoy flying and that is how it should be. Other would like to achieve something incredibly complex(*) quickly and for them sim is much better option.

(*) hovering is very complex thing to do and sim did help me achieve it (same as loops, inverted hover, etc...) But I am old enough not to learn quickly and easily as kids can do... Also, I do not have enough time to spend flying it (15 mins to field, 15 back, 4-6 batteries - 20 - 40 minutes easily if nobody is on the field - much more when someone is there :D ) - while with sim I have 10 minutes of instant playing with 'what if'...

[Jet Mechanic]

No, it's not. I've been flying helis for about 2 years, started with a Blade CP. I am currently working on tail-in inverted hover with my T-Rex 500.

I logged just under 1000 flights last year.

You just have to advance slowly.


Its all about "practice time" the more practice the better. In your case you spent a large amount of your time actually flying to get experience. But you can get just as much experience with a simulator. I'm not saying thats where I get all mine from but most people these days get it that way. Either way you get experience which is what makes a good pilot.

[Skarn]

The sim has GREATLY improved my learning curve. It's much cheaper to crash on a sim as well!

Yes, nothing takes the place of actualy flying/stick time, but the sim is invaluable!

Skarn

[clicky]

BTW - let me return to the topic:

Looooonnnnnggg....

And I am still not really there... But even the process of getting there is wonderful fun! :D

[TommyB]

I flew helis exclusively for a little over a year but probably on average only a few packs a week. Maybe 15-20 hrs or so total progressing to ff flight, circuits, roles and loops before becoming frustrated with the amount of bench time. Returning from a two month trip with no flying, I got started on planes and didn't touch the helis for well over a year. Twenty some planes later, I'm getting back into helis, and am looking forward to alot of flight time this summer. Did my first flight in an open area tonight and had a real good session. Fast flying and maneuvers in all upright orientations, plus plenty of nice stationary back flips. I think I'm getting some confidence back.

I've put in alot of sim time over the winter, and am comfortable in all orientations, upright and inverted, as well as backwards flight, so I am pretty confident that this will be my breakout season.

I'm debating on moving up to an 450 SE, or maybe moving up to something bigger like the 500. I'm flying mainly an old xl and am ready to go with some addtional performance.

[mc_heli]

I flew helis exclusively for a little over a year but probably on average only a few packs a week. Maybe 15-20 hrs or so total progressing to ff flight, circuits, roles and loops before becoming frustrated with the amount of bench time. Returning from a two month trip with no flying, I got started on planes and didn't touch the helis for well over a year. Twenty some planes later, I'm getting back into helis, and am looking forward to a lot of flight time this summer. Did my first flight in an open area tonight and had a real good session. Fast flying and maneuvers in all upright orientations, plus plenty of nice stationary back flips. I think I'm getting some confidence back.

I've put in alot of sim time over the winter, and am comfortable in all orientations, upright and inverted, as well as backwards flight, so I am pretty confident that this will be my breakout season.

I'm debating on moving up to an 450 SE, or maybe moving up to something bigger like the 500. I'm flying mainly an old xl and am ready to go with some additional performance.

Hey TommyB,
I've considered the 500 as well, but I've decided to use my funds for more flight time, so only more batts and chargers for now. Yet I don't think I'll be able to resist getting a 450 SE/V2 by mid summer... and a 600N the year after...

[vic20owner]

I don't think you'll notice a lot of improvement unless you are going from mechnical mixing to ccpm... I went from an HDE -> CDE with CNC head and there was a big difference. Then I went from the CDE to an all carbon fiber SE (direct CCPM) and there was no noticeable difference at all aside from the bling (which only made bad crashes more expensive).

[mc_heli]

I'm trying A123 batts now. They can be charged at 12C or 5 min max, so no down time, and more $$$ to pay for worn parts and crashes.... (from way more flight time!!!)
I'm waiting for a couple parts to acomodate the new setup, and hopefully next saturday will be the first "all day flying" ever.... I didn't think I could ever do it, unless I took a 2nd mortgage in the house to buy batts and chargers or a Trex600 Nitro.

[asm_]

I got my first 450XL heli last November and went through about 50 cycles between my two trusty 3S lipo and learn to hover tail in in my house. That roughly translate into 300 minute of flight time. That took about 4 weeks.

I then move on to FFF and figer-8. That took only about 20 cycles of battery. This is probably due to the fact that I already know how to fly fixed wing, and I fly my fixed wing using both rudder and alieron. So, the require use of rudder in heli FFF seems easy. However, this process took longer then hover as I can only fly FFF in open area, instead of in my house. By this time two months has pass.

Then I goof off for the next couple months flying warbird... :) I was waiting for new 20C battery to arrive as my 10C pack wasn't cutting the muster in a flip.

Once the new 20C packs arrived, I am now doing flip in all direction, pin wheel, some time invert hover at 100 feet off the ground.

This is taking me a while, but I will get there... :)

Brian

[mc_heli]

[QUOTE=marcolong2005]I think the beginner on the RC/Heli world,they need more more Carbon fiber blade and fiberglass blades.we are made the blades factory.We have 325.330.430.550.600.700 blades.
if have some one need it.please contact us.

Sorry Marcolong, I've submitted your post for removal. This is a simple and clean thread with people experiences, I'd like to keep it that way (if possible). I'd be happy to hear your experiences, but not what you're selling, there are appropriate threads for that... BTW, beginners need woodies, so crashes won't damage the heli or the wallet as much, so they can keep on flying... just my opinion...