Saito engines?

[Timmy]

Are Saito engines pretty good? I wanted to put the FA-80 on my Sig Somethin' Extra, is that too much motor? Would the plane be able to torque roll and hover with is setup?

Tyler

[Gerald]

I don't have any direct experience with Saito engines but I hear that they are lightweight for their size and make good power.

I have a Somethin Extra with an ancient (but new condition) K&B .61 which will hover and torque roll (though I'm not any good at it.) It can go from a hover at about 2/3 throttle back to vertical climb by giving it full throttle. It will climb vertically as high as I can still see it, even on a full 10oz tank of fuel. I use a 12x6 prop with 12" being the max size for the SE without giving it longer landing gear. Even then you'll need to bend the gear slightly down to get a little better clearance for the 12". An 11" prop will not give you the right thrust for hovering.

The FA-80 is rated at 1.3HP and weighs about 19 oz. This is very close to my K&B .61 which is about 1.3HP and 17.5oz. The Saito should be able to run a 12" prop also, so I'd expect it would perform similarly to my setup. I'd suggest a 12x6 or 12x7. The extra 1.5oz engine weight doesn't seem like too much but you'll probably need to adjust components more to the rear to get the CG correct. The SEs tend to come out a little nose-heavy anyway. You should be fine with an 8oz tank since the four stroke Saito should have better fuel consumption. Even with my K&B I can fly 20 minutes on the 10oz tank with continuous aerobatics.

[gregg f]

saito's are excellent engines. as gerald mentioned they are lightweight and make good power. a very reliable product......gregg

[Ladyflyer]

The 80 came in two versions .The older high compression 80 was a bit of a bear. I used a .015" shim under the cylinder to reduce the compression. The new version is a powerful engine that is a lot of fun to run. You should have a lot of good flying ahead.

[John_R_C]

Saito engines are excellent. I've had at least 6 of them and I'm still flying a .45 Mk. II that's about 10 years old. For your plane I'd go with a Saito .72. It's a newer design than the .80, and a smaller case to boot, so it should be lighter.

The orginal Saito .65 and .80s I had were on an Astro Hog and taught many folks to fly. My recently departed .56 - lost in a crash in my Aresti .40 had many gallons of fuel through it, and I was amaized at how good it was internally - unfortunately I broke the cylinder fron the crankcase in the crash, so it was easy to checkout the internals :D

[freefl2]

I have first hand experience in what you are looking for and here it is in a nutshell.
The Saito 72 is a great motor I have 2 of them one in my Somethin Extra. One in a 300s 40size

Then there is the bad news. On the SE there is very little room for more fuel. So flight times are short unless you modify the fuel area for a larger fuel tank. The next bad news SE have very short gear. so I went to the V style gear from Great Planes it is taller with taller tires too I can spin the 13-14"props without eating dirt.
Saito's will start and RUN backwards until broken in. Which takes well over a gallon to really break them in. So watch for this it can shock you and pull your plane backwards too!.

They need to be WET to start, that means almost flooded.

Yes it will hover, and it will even pull out of a hover if you are straight. I do suggest you plan ahead on the motor mounting you need it as close to the fire wall as you can without hitting the carb. control arm and still get full travel. If you want pics let me know. PS the 80 has a BIG case, the SaitoFA71 is 1.2hp and fits in a 40 motor mount.

If you are building from a kit here are the mods I suggest
1 more fuel
2 bigger gear and wheels
3 lose the stock tail wheel
4 Modify the Elevator with large angles for more Rudder Travel
5 Convert Rudder to counter balance type add about 1/2-3/4" of length to the rudder.

OH one more thing the stock push rods bind, I have a GREAT tip if interested drop me a note it is too long to type here.

[canadagoose]

The Saito 80 is a great engine, same size but lighter than the 65, quite abit more powerful. I have the old high compression 80 and i have not found it to be a bear to run. Mine is the best running 4C i have,it's 12 yrs old with approx 400 flights on it and still runs strong. It swings a 14x6 MA at 9200 rpm and a big 15x6 Dynathrust at 8000 and has never thrown a prop. :D

[Ladyflyer]

Hello Canadagoose . My reference to "bear" was to the power rather than difficult operation . However having run them BOTH ways , high and low compression I do prefer the low compression version. I have also seen more Saito 80s with broken cases than almost any other engine with the Saito 180 a close second .
They did put out good power for their day .
I still prefer the 65 for smooth ,easy running and excellent durability. When looking for more power I move up to the YS line.

[AndyOne]

The 80 came in two versions .The older high compression 80 was a bit of a bear. I used a .015" shim under the cylinder to reduce the compression. The new version is a powerful engine that is a lot of fun to run. You should have a lot of good flying ahead.

The new one is actually referred to as the 82 and it is a bored out version of the 72. I have an 82 in my freestyle aerobat (Weston UK Groove) and it's adequate+++ with vertical climb on 1/3 throttle.

Go for the 82 it's a new geneation engine.

Andy

[Ladyflyer]

Actually when the posting you quoted was listed there was no 72 nor 82 Saito .

[canadagoose]

Hello Ladyflyer, that's exactly what i had thought you meant by it being a 'bear' to run was an engine that gave a lot of difficulty to the operator. How does the power compare between the two? does it seem that maybe the older one is able to take more of a load at lower rpms than the low compression version ? Where do most of the cases seem to break on them? I have driven my 80 into hard gravel ( learning to fly ) and damaged the intake tube and back plate but it didn't sustain any damage to the case. I've also had the rear bearing's ball cage blow apart when running it at full throttle, badly scoring the inside of the crankcase. and piston skirt. :( My experience with my 80 is that it is tough. (The only parts i have ever replaced on it have been two sets of bearings, the intake tube and conrod). I must have a good one! :)

[Ladyflyer]

Sounds about average to me . The bearings from Saito leave a bit to be desired . There are better bearings out there . The bearing problem is just one of the symptoms from the size to power ratio . I don't think I said or inferred that every single one nor did even most of them break . I was just commenting that a LOT of them break, more than just about any other. They are a powerful engine for the weight ,no doubt .
BTW ,the lower compression version is able to handle larger props at lower RPM than the HC version . A lot less fussy to boot . Again, I liked the HC version but I loved the loe compression version .

[AndyOne]

Actually when the posting you quoted was listed there was no 72 nor 82 Saito .

Oops, I didn't look at the date I guess this thread has been revived.

Andy.

[canadagoose]

I don't think I said or inferred that every single one nor did even most of them break . I was just commenting that a LOT of them break, more than just about any other.
I meant where have most of the cases broken on the engines with broken cases? Is it around the mounting lugs? The crankcase area does seem to be on the thin side. I agree with you on the bearings, they should have used bearings that are not so prone to corrosion. The last set i bought are a high speed crossmatch (don't know the make) that i bought from BC Bearing. These ones have lasted quite a long time now (8 yrs) with no signs of corrosion on them.
I would like to try the newer version,although i know i can't think of anything that could make mine less fussy. It starts up almost every time on the first flip, has a great idle with 15% nitro fuel and an OS F plug, and is very tolerant to a wide range of needle settings (from lean to very rich).

[Ladyflyer]

Most of the breaks are just behind the bearing , all the way around . Part of the "clean" look of Saito castings is the lack of fillets in corners. It give a precision clean look and a miniscule savings in weight but it really weakens the cases.

[canadagoose]

Oops, I didn't look at the date I guess this thread has been revived.

Andy.

Don't feel bad, i didn't look at the date the thread was started when i first replied. Looks like i had probably brought it back out of the archives.

Thanks for the info Ladyflyer, i'm just wondering what things might help to crack a case other than crashing ( maybe running unbalanced props or trying to swing too big a prop ).

[ivanc]

Or running too lean or using fuel with low oil contents...

[Ladyflyer]

I have seen a very good friend , one of the most careful flyers I know break a Saito 80 in two . He is fastidious about prop balancing , mixture and prop size . Whatever the "other " causes the Saito 80 remains the champ for sheer numbers of broken cases . The later version holds up better with the smoother firing pulses from the reduced compresssion ratio . After I broke a case I resorted to the shim I spoke of . My husband made some from brasss shim stock . The engine became a lot more fun to run . I even use the shims on 91 Saitos in the bigger planes to spin larger props nicely.

[MarioM]

Hello,
I've been in the hobby for 2.5yrs... After a crash, my motor is making some funny sounds. An older club member said "its the bearings". I bought a replacement bearing set... Are there instructions, or issues I should be aware of before attempting to replace the bearings on my motor? I would hate to trash it or do a bad job out of ignorace and lack of instructions. Any info for me?