Some questions...

[Jettaheizer]

Hello guys,

I just got an fiberglass hull (not original) from the Billing Boats Banckert. Now I'm trying to build in the engine and steering, but I need some help. Everything I have is the building manual from Billing Boats. Unfortunately there are no plans in this manual. Could anyone give me the following details:

- shaft angle
- kort nozzle dimensions
- rudder dimensions and shape
- motor size (and type?)

Another question: how can I get the shape of the deck parts from the hull most easily? I think I have to build in a deck at least to avoid getting a submarine at the first wave...

I'm sure I will have some more questions, but this should be enough for the present...

Greetings,
Franz

P.S.: it will not yet be a scale model, but a "rescue boat" for my seaplanes. At the moment water temperatures are not suitable for swimming to get back a damaged seaplane from the lake...
Maybe I will mae the boat more scale-like later.

[LtDoc]

Franz,
Since this isn't a 'scale' boat the 'scale' sizes for rudder, shaft angle, etc, just aren't that important. Almost anything will 'work'.
The particular use you have for it benefits from more 'control' rather than less 'control', making the rudder larger than 'scale' isn't exactly a bad idea, sort of.
Motor size is very variable. I used the motor from a hand-drill, worked fine. Certainly had more than 'scale' qualities (power), sort of.
Keeping the shaft 'angle' sort of 'flat' is nice. The 'best' shaft angle is the one that 'fits' best, sort of.
The deck is a necessity! Depending on all the other variables, you can count on there being water over the railings. Keeping that water out of the boat is the idea, how you go about it is up to you (within reason! :)). If there's a hole and it's not sealed in some way, water loves to get into things. An 'empty' deck leaves lots of 'room' for things that can make rescue easier (and also a few things that can make rescue almost impossible :)). Never seen a boat that looked like ~that~ before? If it does it's job right, who cares? Another one of those 'within reason' thingys.
Hmm... not many specific answers here, right? Oooo, that just means you can do it any way you want/can!
- 'Doc

[Jettaheizer]

Hi Doc,

sure you're right, but in the case of making the Tug more scale someday at least I want to build a scale-like rudder and drive in, because this would be difficult to change later. And also the decks should be the right sizes in the right positions. Everything else I can do when I decide to build it scale.

Greetings,
Franz

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Dig a little through these threads to see the running gear...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=457900
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=479228&page=2

Cut a practice deck out of cardboard, Trace it off the top of the hull, cut it out, then fit and trim it into the hull. Once the cardboard is fitted, use it as a pattern to mark out a piece of plywood for your deck.

[Jettaheizer]

Hi Umi,

I allready searched this forum for the Banckert (yes, there ARE people that use the search button! :rolleyes: ).
There´s one pic where I can see that the shaft actually has an angle but I can´t measure it.
Anyone out there who could send me some plan or sketch to F.Osten<at>powerpreis.com or write here the details I gotta know?

Greetings,
Franz

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

PM, or maybe e-mail the people with Banckert then and see if they can photo copy or scan the area you need.

Millertime is in and out of here, so hopefully he will stop in with a solution for you.

LTdoc isn't wrong though,... If you make the shaft as flat or level to the water line as possible, you really can't go wrong. Beyond that, it is just a matter of propeller clearance.

:)

[waboats]

Could always try here..

Billings Instructions. Has a fairley good drawing & photos which can be scaled up..

http://www.billingboats.com/instructions/BB516%20Banckert_Instruction.pdf

Prop is 40mm

Here is an extract

[Jettaheizer]

Hi waboats,

thanks for the documents, but as I mentioned in my first post I've got the complete manual allready. Maybe I'll be able to measure out the shaft angle from the pic with the parts shown, there's the cover of the shaft on this pic. My prop is also 40mm, so at least I have the right size of this part.

Greetings,
Franz

[waboats]

When I built mine some years ago I used a geared down 540 (MFA/COMO), 919D I think.. It was a tight fit..

Anyway, the Shaft was dead level as it wouldn't fit my Prop any other way, without striking the knozzle.. Internal Diameter was very tight to the Prop.. I wouldn't say it was much more than 43mm as a max..

It is quoted as a 45mm Knozzle but if I remember correctly this was Outside Diameter.. I could be wrong. :o

You might get away with 2-3 degree lift but that will depend on the Knozzle you build..

[Jettaheizer]

Hi waboats,

I think I found a way to get allmost the right angle. On the last page of the manual there's the shaft cover (part F579A) shown. The lower end of this cover is fixed to the brass piece that holds the kort nozzle to the bottom of the hull (I forgot the right word for this piece :( ). So if I assume the lower edge to be mounted to this brass piece with an angle of 0 degrees, the shaft would have an angle of about 7 degrees down. So I cut out a small piece of poplar ply with this angle and fixed it provisional inside the hull between bottom and shaft and the angle of the shaft looked good to me. So I will just take this piece of ply as a support for the shaft.
But I'm still not sure how to make the kort nozzle. I think I will take anything with the right diameter and form (it has to taper a bit backwards).
Possibility 1: I take the shape for the nozzle from the forming thing with cardboard and cut it out of thin Balsa (1mm should work) twice, then I bend it around that thing and the second one over the first with opposite joints and glue it with epoxy.
Possibility 2: I make the nozzle with glass and epoxy on the forming thing.
Possibility 3: I take any kind of shrinking material (PET bottle, pudding cup, maybe shrinking tube (is that the right word?) or something) and shrink it around the forming thing.
But which possibility I should take? Any other suggestions?

Greetings,
Franz

[Tugboat Andy]

Hi waboats,

But I'm still not sure how to make the kort nozzle. I think I will take anything with the right diameter and form (it has to taper a bit backwards).
Possibility 1: I take the shape for the nozzle from the forming thing with cardboard and cut it out of thin Balsa (1mm should work) twice, then I bend it around that thing and the second one over the first with opposite joints and glue it with epoxy.
Possibility 2: I make the nozzle with glass and epoxy on the forming thing.
Possibility 3: I take any kind of shrinking material (PET bottle, pudding cup, maybe shrinking tube (is that the right word?) or something) and shrink it around the forming thing.
But which possibility I should take? Any other suggestions?

Greetings,
Franz

If you're willing to build your own nozzle, I might suggest you check out the Springer thread. Toesup got me on the right track, check out his work. I built my own quick and dirty tapered nozzle using a childs tapered drinking cup as a form. Two parallel lines were drawn around the cup with a permanent marker to approxmate the nozzle size I wanted, then a piece of tracing paper was wrapped around the cup. The lines were traced on the paper carefully noting where the paper crossed itself on the cup. The paper was removed and the two curved lines were cleaned up a bit. This gives a fair representation of the expanded shape the ply will make as it wraps around the form (cup). I cut the paper shape out and traced in onto microply which is cut out. It is important to allow each layer to be a little bigger/longer than the preceeding layer as the circumfrence grows. Dry fit and then glue (epoxy) these layers around a tippy cup form using rubber bands to hold the laminations tight to each other, staggering the joints. It helped to soak the microply in hotwater for 15 minutes, then clamp them around the form and leave them to dry overnight. The ply will hold some of the shape and you won't fight it as much during the final laminating. I actually used the shoe drying rack for the clothes drier and "baked" the ply dry on permanent press. ;)

I hope this is clear. Please let me know if you have questions. :)

[Jettaheizer]

Hi Andy,

how could I forget the springer thread? :o
Okay, there are more than a thousand pics in this thread so it lasts a pretty while to find the right ones... ;)
I think this will be the way. But I won´t use ply but balsa so I can sand it into the right shape more easily befor I put glass on it. Unfortunately I still did not find a matching form. Everything I found was either to big or tapered too much.
Anyway, I will report how my "rescue boat" goes on and I sure will annoy you with more questions... :p :D

Greetings,
Franz

[Jettaheizer]

Hi guys,

with a little pride I can report from my first success with my banckert hull.
Yesterday I glued in the wooden support and the shaft with compound glue. That glue (UHU Endfest 300) takes up to 12 hours to dry. Today I found it hard and dry so I made the first test. I set the hull into my bathtub with about 3 inches of Water in it and it kept dry inside. Then I added a ballast of about 3 pounds of stainless steel (just to prevent rust marks inside the hull ;) ) and let it in the tub for one hour. Not even one single drop of water inside!
If I get the same result with the rudders I will be happy.

Greeting,
Franz

btw: did I mention that it´s the first ship I build? :o

[Jettaheizer]

Hi guys,

next questions... :o
How do I manage to get the rudder post block even with the water line? And how do I get in the holes for the rudder exactly vertical?
I think I have to learn a lot more about building boats...

Greetings,
Franz

[toesup]

next questions... :o
How do I manage to get the rudder post block even with the water line? And how do I get in the holes for the rudder exactly vertical?

Turn the hull upside down and support it on 'something' so that the waterline is level with the building board. Use an engineers square (or set square) to 'eye' the rudder tube vertical in line with the set square.