Upgrading to Dean's Ultra Plugs...Advantages?

[tim slocum]

I've been thinking of upgrading all my connectors to Deans Ultra's,but before going to all that trouble, I want to know exactly what benefit's I'll see. I know less resistance,but is lower battery,esc,motor temps all the benifit I will see? Is there a chance I might see improvements in run time or top speed? Discusion please.

[Rex R]

depends on what you're upgrading from :). if you're going from the white tamiya plugs it is quite likely you'll see some improvement in top speed. also temp drop simply because the deans plugs (in general) stay connected (electrically). deans are also smaller(that might not be an issue with scale boats). things to watch out for; let the plugs cool down between tinning and soldering, if they get over warm the spring portion of the connecter will fail. put the shrink tubing on the wire 1st(as far from the solder job as possible). on 12ga wire you should consider a 40w iron. hth
rex
I only just got good at soldering deans plugs now I gotta pratice up on 5.5mm bullet plugs.

[Kmot]

First of all, I HATE DEANS PLUGS! http://www.fototime.com/BC22C91E33CDEF3/orig.gif

Now that I got that out of the way...........

By using a better connector you lower the resistance. That in turn will equate to longer running time. Case in point: I have four brand new 4200 batteries. I soldered Powerpoles on two of them and left the standard connector on another two. I used an adapter to go from standard to Powerpoles so I could use them. (I was out of stock of Powerpoles)

I got 90 minutes run time on the batteries with the hard wired Powerpoles. I got 45 minutes run time on the batteries with the standard connector. So there you have it. A 100% increae in run time by changing the crappy standard connectors to Powerpoles. Deans may give you similar results.

As for lower temps, unless you like your standard connectors melting together sometimes it is advisable to change them before you get a high current load. :p

[785boats]

Hello Tim
Both Rex & Tom have answered your questions, but here's a tip. As Rex said tin the tabs but also the wire. Hold the plug in a vice or clamp (gently).Place the wire on the tab. place the iron on the wire . As SOON as the solder melts (1-2 secs) remove the iron. You'll have to hold the wire still for some time while the solder "sets" because those pins retain a lot of heat.
As an aside... Tom HATE is a very strong word for an innocent little connector. :D Would you care to share your, presumably, bad experiences with them.
Regards,
Paul.

[patmat2350]

Me! Me! Call on me!
I'll never bother with the big Deans again either (but I do make use of their tiny little connectors for lighting circuits and such). Yes, they are rated for a bit more current than the common Powerpoles (but you can get bigger PP's), and they are a bit shorter. But as a mechanical engineer, I ABHOR the idea of soldering big wires onto those short little tabs and merely covering them with a bit of shrink. And it's easy to melt the plastic bodies with the heat needed to solder a big wire. And then the tabs get hard to align. And even if not misaligned, they're still a pain to get apart. A sadly simple design.

PP's have proper solder "tubes" on the connector to solidly position the wire, and these are slid into the plastic shell after soldering, no need for shrink, no melting either. MUCH easier to assemble/disassemble. The springy contacts assure good, well, contact, with low assembly effort. And the housings are keyed to allow pairs to be assembled in various orientations.

Pat M

[retoabcr]

Disadvantages; reliability; if soldering to PERFECT! The small Deans are easier to work with but i use Sermos cause i'm in the 540-05 arena where amps aren't high. I also use tape over connectors, just in case one decides to come loose which only adds 2 minutes in setting up the equipment. I'm in no hurry!

[patmat2350]

BYTW: Powerpoles are made by Anderson:
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/standard-powerpole.html

although you'll find them sold in the hobby trade under various names, including Sermos.

We hobbyists use their 15/30/45 amp shell, usually sold with the 30 amp connector (12-14 gage wire), although I'd prefer the 15A connector, sized for smaller wires that I use for scale applications.

One source which sells them in bulk at a good price is:
http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=3016&CtgID=3014

Pat M

[tim slocum]

Thanks for the info folks, maybe I should have titled the thread, What's the best connector and why. My soldering skills are novice. I think I'll investigate the Anderson Powerpoles. Question, could you just use bullet type connectors? I would'nt be using anything more than 9.6v.

[patmat2350]

It's not the volts, it's the current they pass. Cheapo Tamiya connex may be the worst... cheapo bullets are not likely much better.

The power (watts, or HEAT) dissipated in a joint having some level of resistance goes with the SQUARE of the current... double the current from 10A to 20A, you'll generate FOUR times the heat in watts.

Power (watts) = current squared (amps ^2) times resistance (ohms)

10A through just 1/2 ohm resistance is 50 watts... put your finger on a 50W light bulb and tell me how you like the sizzle!

[tim slocum]

What about these gold ones.The description says,"less resistance than the Dean's Ultra plugs"

[woodybob]

They used to be called Sermos connectors. Been using them for years. Great stuff. I like them because you can heat the metal part with a torch, stuff your solder in the hole, and then stuff your wire into the hole, done. Go into a hobby shop and ask for them, it's really a hoot. :confused: BTW, Just bought ten pairs on eBay for $10.99, such a deal.

[tim slocum]

Stupid question alert.......what is a roll pin on an Anderson Powerpole???

[Kmot]

The roll pin keeps the pair of connectors together so that they don't slide around.

Powerpoles also do not need to be soldered. They can be crimped and be just as efficient as a solder connection.

As for Deans being smaller, that is only true if you leave the Powerpole housing untouched. If you cut off the excess housing at the rear starting at the 'dimple' you will end up with an insulated connection the same length as a Deans.

Another trivia: did you realize a Powerpole connection is shorter than a Tamiya connection?

[patmat2350]

Stupid question alert.......what is a roll pin on an Anderson Powerpole???
The shells slide together on little tapered keys, to create either side of a paired connection ... they hold together pretty well, but you can lock them solid with the roll pin. I never bothered.

[Brooks]

Great thread, thanks Tim and all the respondents!

[woodybob]

Powerpoles also do not need to be soldered. They can be crimped and be just as efficient as a solder connection.

Crimping could make it tough to stuff the metal into the plastic.

[Aerominded]

I'm a Deans fan myself... ;)

[toesup]

After having a Tamiya plug 'weld' itself together, i wont use anything other than Deans on my Boats, Cars or Planes...

Take your time with the soldering wires / plug together and its an easy job...

[Kmot]

Crimping could make it tough to stuff the metal into the plastic.
You need to use a good crimping tool and be careful, yes.

[H.Lauer]

I'm with Aero and Toes. Once you do a few, they are really quite easy and LAST. Harry

[patmat2350]

One trick I've heard of for dealing with stubborn Deans connex: Grind a relief on the mating end of one so that a pry tool can be inserted and twisted in order to separate them. You'll want to be careful though not to short a live battery connection!

Of course, this is totally unnecessary with Powerpoles.

[Kmot]

Ever seen someone try to seperate a Deans plug after a high current situation? Smoke is coming out of various components, the plug is hot as he!! and it is quite funny to watch someone try to get them apart.

Of course, this is totally unnecessary with Powerpoles. :p

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I use deans plugs.
Soldering those short tabs can be a pain, Leaving the pair mated when soldering will prevent the tabs getting misaligned if you over heat the connector.

[tim slocum]

I didnt think this discussion would go like this. Hmmmm.....brand loyalty I guess. I remember seeing where someone used small rubber O rings to make Dean's easier to seperate. Seems both types have their supporters, what to do? How many amps is required to melt a Tamiya plug? I've melted the plastic covers on bullet plugs before amd I've gotten a motor so hot I melted solder.

[tsenecal]

Almost every connector known to man, and its amp rating...

http://www.onlybatterypacks.com/items.asp?db=14


highest continous rating I have yet seen:

http://astroflight.com/store/store-type-tem.html?item=products:af-525&sid=0001pE6IQBsSNdcvMQ2L2L7

[woodybob]

The great thing about Powerpoles is the plastic is not an issue in the soldering phase. You can get the metal as hot as it needs to be to get the wire to stay, once it's cooled, just stuff the metal into the plastic. Never had a meltdown with this connector.

[tim slocum]

tsenecal, GREAT LINK !!!! Thank you very much. Do you solder gold plated bullet connectors any differently from soldering other materials?

[Steve Guinn]

I've found a micro torch to be best for bullet connectors.
I tin the wires with the iron, then use the torch to fill the bullet 3/4 full with solder.
Holding the bullet with a clothes pin, I then reheat the bullet and insert the wire.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

I wouldn't mark me down for brand loyalty, so much as less hassle.

It would be a pain to change out 30 plugs, maybe spendy too, to get all my esc and battery and motors. Oooh, I forgot motors, probably that might be seven more plugs.
Right now, any motor set can be plugged directly into a battery, and any ESC I have can be swapped into another boat. Just unplug, and plug it in where I need it.

Right now, swapping that interchangablity for a new better plug set up in one boat is a bit of a sacrifice. :(

[H.Lauer]

How true!!

[norgale]

You mean to tell me my Tamiyas are not as good as other stuff? Can I get "Y"'s already made up in the PP plugs and other wires too?

[tsenecal]

ditto to what Umi said.

for high amp situations (at the time it was one boat) i started using sermos, so I had one set of batteries using sermos, and all the others using tamiya. that was a pain in the arse.

then lipos came out, and they all had deans ultra connectors pre-installed. It was a matter of: do i rewire all my batteries, every time i buy a battery, or do i rewire the esc once.

now, all my boats except the jumbos use lipos, and all my connectors are deans.

[CG Bob]

Radio Control Boat Modeler Magazine had an article about a year ago comparing Tamiya, Dean's Ultra Plugs, and Power Poles to 8" of 12 gage wire. A pair of each type of plugs was attached to 12 gage wire. The plugs were mated firmly together, and the wire was trimmed so the total length including plugs was 8". 8" of 12 gage wire was used as a standard length for the testing of resistance. IIRC the results were:
8" of 12 gage wire - 0.4 Ohms
Ultra Plugs - 0.4 Ohms
Power Poles - 0.6 Ohms
Tamiya Plugs - 1.6 Ohms

They also have this tip (http://209.196.57.97/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=CF752813E43F429494816D69016F2E9B&nm=Site+Features&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=EE2FA91BAC624D5C82FE5F8FA9B5D4C5) for getting a grip on Ultra Plugs.

[Boatfox]

Good prices, bulk order and other colors available in Sermos (Anderson) power poles here (http://www.powerwerx.com/product.asp?ProdID=3016&CtgID=3014)
Better prices dirrect from Anderson and same colors available here (http://store.andersonpower.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=2)
Colored housings only CHEAP here (http://www.connex-electronics.com/?url=/html/products/anderson/powerpole/pp_main.html)
Just the contacts sold loose CHEAP here (http://www.connex-electronics.com/?url=/html/products/anderson/powerpole/pp_main.html)
Power pole distribution box here (http://www.147300.com/projects/powerpoleproject-revisited.htm)
Powerpole uses outside of model boats (Hams will like) clicky (http://home.comcast.net/~buck0/app.htm)

Hope this wasn't overwelming ;) :D

[tim slocum]

Norgale, do you mean these?

[patmat2350]

What's bad about the Tamiyas is that the connectors get wallowed and lose tension, and resistance can go way up from the baseline.

[Kmot]

norgale, Y-harnesses are very simple to make. If you have wire, and you have connectors, it's a piece of cake. ;)

[woodybob]

Cool links Boatfox. :)

[quicksilver]

only deans for me. cant imagine using anything else.

[tim slocum]

Does anyone have a picture of what a Deans looks like with the shrink wrap off? I'd like to see exactly how the wire is soldered to the tabs.

[Steve Guinn]

from http://www.wsdeans.com/

[norgale]

I like to buy my electrical stuff ready made. It's usually far better quality than what I can make myself. I like the looks of the Power pole plugs. They are big enough for my fingers and thats my biggest problem. Hard to handle the little stuff. Also another reason for bigger boats.

[Steve Guinn]

With PP's and a crimping tool you could make them as well as anybody.

What am I doing in the boat forums? :confused:

[tim slocum]

Steve, I meant I would like to see a Deans with the wire soldered on without shrinkwrap, so I could see how the wire is soldered on. Thanks

[Steve Guinn]

I'm charging the camera ;)

[Steve Guinn]

I'm no Ansel Adams...

[785boats]

Hi Tim.
It's Deans for me. They're easy to solder & easy to pull apart. Just grab the wires & pull. If a wire comes off, you had a ''dry joint". That means a high resistance joint and needed to be re soldered. At least you find it.
With all the swapping of ESCs & batteries between boats that I do I've never had a failure. With regard to Y harnesses... Don't bother. When you add the Deans , add 2 as per the pic with a short length of wire between them to make the series connection. This also works for power poles, or tamia, or any other type of plug. It takes a connection out and some wire. Less resistance
Regards,
Paul.

[green-boat]

I have converted all my Tamyia's to Deans years ago after a Tamyia connector burned up leaving my boat stranded in the middle of the lake. There was only 4 amps of current flowing thru it at 6 volts.

[tim slocum]

Thanks for the pictures and info guys.Very informative. These posts keep adding important info to the memory banks of all modellers.

[E-Challenged]

Pros: Deans Ultras are very commonly installed by hobbyists on battery packs, chargers and test equipment because they are compact, reliable, and carry moderate amperage well. This means you can swap packs etc with others without adapters. Soldered connections have better conductivity/less resistance than crimped connections

Cons: It is not unusual for solder stiffened wires to break right next to the terminal inside the heat shrink tubing after flexing a number of times.
Deans Ultras are hard to grasp, and when new, hard to separate. You can modify Ultras externally for better grip ( why doesn't Deans do this). It is
not really hard to solder wires to connectors on the bench but inside a boat, etc, making good soldered connections requires more soldering skill.

It is a really good idea to practice soldering wires to old connectors until you develop necessary habits and techniques, observe proper solder flow.

WARNING: Prevent shorting battery wires together when soldering on a connector as follows: Slide heat shrink tubing onto the wire
Strip, tin and solder only one battery pack wire at a time, slide heat shrink tubing over connection and shrink with heat gun over the connection before
doing the other. Also observe polarity of Deans Ultras, the positive wires
go to the top of the terminal at the top of the "T".

It helps to have someone with steady hand feed the solder and while you hold the tinned wire against the connector terminal and apply the iron tip.

1. Use at least a 37-47 watt soldering iron preferably with a chisel/screwdriver shaped tip. Continuously wipe tip of iron on damp paper towel and apply fresh solder to keep it bright and shiny.
2. Pre-tin the wire end, and slide heat shrink tubing well away from end.
3. Hold connector steady in a pair of vicegrips or pliers with rubber bands.
4.Apply tip of iron to terminal, feed small amount of solder between tip and terminal to form a heat transfer bridge.
5.Apply solder to terminal to form a slight bubble of solder.
6.Apply dab of soldering paste to the terminal and wire end.
7. Have a helper with steady hand ready to feed solder.
8. Reheat the terminal to reflow solder and hold wire against terminal while helper feeds a little more solder.
9. Remove heat and hold wire steady as solder solidifies.

[patmat2350]

Of course, this is totally unnecessary with Powerpoles. :p

:p :p :p

[CG Bob]

It helps to have someone with steady hand feed the solder and while you hold the tinned wire against the connector terminal and apply the iron tip.

1. Use at least a 37-47 watt soldering iron preferably with a chisel/screwdriver shaped tip. Continuously wipe tip of iron on damp paper towel and apply fresh solder to keep it bright and shiny.
2. Pre-tin the wire end, and slide heat shrink tubing well away from end.
3. Hold connector steady in a pair of vicegrips or pliers with rubber bands.
4.Apply tip of iron to terminal, feed small amount of solder between tip and terminal to form a heat transfer bridge.
5.Apply solder to terminal to form a slight bubble of solder.
6.Apply dab of soldering paste to the terminal and wire end.
7. Have a helper with steady hand ready to feed solder.
8. Reheat the terminal to reflow solder and hold wire against terminal while helper feeds a little more solder.
9. Remove heat and hold wire steady as solder solidifies.
I solder the connections by myself, but I use a specially made jig for the job. By holding both the connector and the wire in the jig, I have no need for an assistant in the shop for this job.

[Kmot]

None of the above is necessary with Powerpoles. :D

http://www.flyrc.com/articles/using_powerpole_2.shtml

[keith S]

CG Bob, nice universal rig for sodering terminals and plugs! Simple, yet effective for both.

[patmat2350]

Ford, Chevy.
TomAto, tomahto.
Deans, Powerpole...

[tim slocum]

CGBob, nice wiring rig.Just might have to make one of those.

[woodybob]

Like the link Tom, thanks...from a Powerpole user. :cool:



None of the above is necessary with Powerpoles. :D

http://www.flyrc.com/articles/using_powerpole_2.shtml

[quicksilver]

Ford, Chevy.
TomAto, tomahto.
Deans, Powerpole...

thank god you put deans on the same side with Ford's, I didnt want to have to start a fight with you implying deans were like Chevy's :D

I really dont find soldering deans connectors hard, takes like a second, like a second faster in the 1/4 mile between a mustang and a ........ ;)

[tim slocum]

When I started this thread I never though it would be like this!! :) Who would have thought people could be so pasionate about the type of connectors they use? :confused: I will carefully consider any topic I decide to bring up in the future. :rolleyes:

[CG Bob]

Ford, Chevy.
TomAto, tomahto.
Deans, Powerpole...
Availability, ready to use

More and more battery companies are selling bateries with Dean's plugs already attached (for an extra $5-10).
Duratrax (http://www.duratrax.com/caraccys/dtxc2102.html) lists 3800 & 4200 NiMh packs with Dean plugs.
Great Planes has NiMh (http://www.electrifly.com/powersystem/batteries/batteries-nimh.html) and LiPo (http://www.electrifly.com/powersystem/batteries/batteries-lipo.html) packs with Deans plugs.

[patmat2350]

Hmmm, RTR or scratch build... the despised Tamiya plugs come preinstalled too! :D

[Steve Guinn]

... and the Yugo came with an engine installed. :rolleyes:

[Kmot]

That's because Deans has been promoted heavily by the car racing crowd and those batteries are aimed directly at r/c car guys.

[retoabcr]

post #35 is for increasing voltage and not for increasing mah!

[CG Bob]

That's because Deans has been promoted heavily by the car racing crowd and those batteries are aimed directly at r/c car guys.Not necessarily, a lot of the Great Planes NiMh batteries (http://www.electrifly.com/powersystem/batteries/gpmp0362-lg.jpg) are marketed towards aircraft. In the LHS where I work most of the e-power airplane guys are using Deans over the various bullet plugs or Power poles. The model RR guys are buying lots of Power poles for the electrical connections between the modules.

[AndyKunz]

I work in the telcom power industry. We use Andersen products all over the place - for big cables with 1" dia copper all the way down to 5A battery connections (different sizes of course). They are much easier to work with than the other types and far more reliable.

The biggest thing I have against Deans is the large percentage of "my ESC doesn't work reliably" repair returns for ESCs (I am RC-Hydros.com) that are really the poor soldering of Deans connectors. On the old red board I posted several times the proper technique for soldering Deans. Just the fact that one has to go and do a work instruction for properly soldering them should be warning enough that they aren't up to the task for most folks.

That said, I'm in the process of converting all my stuff over to Deans because it will allow me to more easily swap packs between my planes and boats. Most of the guys in my club are using Deans so we can share easier too. Hang on, Tom, I'll get that box out to you as soon as I can!

Andy

[Kmot]

They are much easier to work with than the other types and far more reliable.
:cool:

Just the fact that one has to go and do a work instruction for properly soldering them should be warning enough that they aren't up to the task for most folks.
:D

That said, I'm in the process of converting all my stuff over to Deans
:confused:

[woodybob]

Well quoted Tom! :)

[AndyKunz]

:confused:

We share a lot at our field. Most of the other guys have Deans.

You should be smiling - all those old Sermos are going into a box for you.

Andy

[Kmot]

I have gotten lots of the Hansen guys to start using Powerpoles and they not only appreciate them but have been able to use my batteries on several occasions when they have had charging problems on their own batteries. :)

[Shaun Hendricks]

I have used powerpoles, I didn't like the feel of them as it just wasn't as positive of a connection as deans, but they were far superior to tamiya's.

For those that have problems soldering deans plugs "What the heck nuclear setting do you have your irons on?"

I have a cheesy 30 watt iron that can solder these plugs to 12ga wire in a jiffy if you tin the wire and the plug FIRST. My nice iron does these connections perfectly. I'd hold the connectors in my hand if I wasn't risking touching the other end of the metal leads! OW! So I use one of those 'spare hands' with the magnifying glass to do my plugs... or a vice. Either one works perfectly.

If you are concerned about heat, attach a pair of flat jaw alligator clips (any electronics store will have them) to each of the other side of the metal leads. Works like a heat sink and you could leave your iron on the metal for a LOOOONG time before the plastic would melt.

BTW, if you don't like the heat shrink, tape off the 'business end' of the plug and spray or dip in tool handle grip 'latex'. Makes for a nice single pull off grip and good stress relief. Cut around the edge of the tape a remove for a 'clean' line.

If your need is light weight, don't use heat shrink either. Use clear fingernail polish. Makes a decent insulator.

[Steve Guinn]

If your need is light weight, don't use heat shrink either. Use clear fingernail polish. Makes a decent insulator.
How do you know when it's worn off? :)

[lowdive]

bright red nail polish for you, then!

[Steve Guinn]

I was thinking more along the lines of a nice mauve. :D