Learning to Winch

[Tank52]

I'm building a Tim McCann Winch (http://www.superskeg.com/wn-cart-freeman.html) right now. This is my first winch and unfortunately, I don't have a lot of help available to me here in North Dakota. Most of the locals I know fly gassers. I'm looking for some recommendations in the 2M range to cut my teeth on with the winch? An Easy Glider or a Spirit ARF perhaps?

About me: I've been flying smaller electrics & slope aircraft for the past 2 years. My crashes are very few and far between and can be isolated mostly to equipment failures and mild frostbite. I built and flew my first Gentle Lady a couple dozen years ago in high school I'm looking to get back into thermal gliders.

My Plans: I have a couple kits on the bench--a Tower Vista ARF that I peeled clean for a new covering job. It looks a lot like the old GL I used to have. The quality of this ARF build is clean and impressive--at least the one I got. I'll be dusting off my 2M building skills with a Skybench 2M Lil Bird over the winter and my move on to a larger RES aircraft in the Spring...perhaps even a EZ Bubble Dancer next summer.

The winch itself is build with a 12V Ford Longshaft for a relatively "mild" setup.

Any tips you can offer would be greatly appreciated...

~Tank

[Wazmo]

Not that I'm any sort of winch expert, but so far I've learned:


Throw the glider up and forward when you launch. You want it to be at flying speed when it leaves your hand under tension. Don't just throw it forward, because the line speed will likely cause it to pitch up rapidly and load the wings too much. Don't try to pre-tension the line and just let it go. That'll fold the wings on gliders that aren't built strong.
Tap the foot switch. Try to maintain enough tension to keep it on the line and flying. Watch for the wings flexing and ease off the rate, but don't stop or it'll fly off the line.
Be ready for it to pop off and push over hard, or if you have enough altitude and it's pitching over the top, pull into a loop to return to level flight.
If you can, use lighter line for the 2M gliders. They don't like to lift the extra weight.
Go easy on the zoom, until you find out what your wing can do. Initially, just stop tapping and let it fly off the line once it doesn't seem to be gaining any more height.

[aeajr]

Congratulations on your winch build.

Keep in mind that the value of the winch over a hi-start is power. With that power comes the need to control it.

GLs, Spirits and the like can not typically take the power of a full pedal winch launch. You have to "tap" them up or the winch can snap the wings. These birds can be winch launched but you have to be somewhat gentle. I had a lot of trouble learning to do that. I have no problems now.

These planes can be very successfully launched on the winch with careful control. However, if you have a wing open, you might want to add carbon caps on the spars to give you more strength for the winch. You will be less likely to break a carbon reinforced spar and you can get more agressive, though full pedal might still not be advisable.

On a personal note, I had a terrible time learning to use the winch. I snapped 2 or 3 Spirit wings and a couple of Sagitta 600 wings by over powering them on the winch. Other people pick it up quickly but I did not. It took months.

I have found the Easy Glider to be an excellent winch training glider. The stock hook position is too far forward to provide optimum launch angles, but it also helps prevent you from over overloading the wing. The wing has a lot of give and flex so you can see when you are applying too much power. The typical, early wing snapping that is often part of learning the winch, can be avoided.

Once you have the winch under control you can get some pretty good launches off the winch with this plane. As you learn to control the winch by tapping it, you can move the hook back for optimum lanuch angles. Then Spirits, GLs and the like are easy to winch.

If you are building the LilBird, an excellent plane, ask sky bench about reinforcement of the spar so you can take best advantage of the winch. They may recommend carbon, or they may tell you it is strong enough as is.

Another thing to keep in mind is that, as wind speeds go up you may have to soften your touch on the winch pedal. A plane that can handle full pedal in a 5 mph wind might snap a wing at 12 mph, so again you have to apply some control and watch the wing for stress.

The winch can be gentle or it can be brutal. The control is yours to learn and to use.

[aeajr]

This is something I had posted in another thread a while back that may be helpful.


Video of a winch launch
http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/7716mono.mpg

Winch throw
http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/500/7716throw.mpg

Winch launching
http://www.soaringissa.org/tech_tips/winch_launching.htm

Zoom off the end
http://home.comcast.net/~bsli40/3MGnome_Launch.MOV

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=51188&highlight=using+a+winch

The joy of the winch is that you can control it. The challenge of the winch is
that you MUST control it, so you have to think about flying the plane and how
much force to apply with the pedal.

Almost any 2M+ plane can be winch launched. The trick is in controlling the
force of the pull. On all winches I have ever used, this is done by pulsing the
pedal/button that operates the winch. Full on gives you maximum pull and
maximum speed but also puts maximum strain on the wing spars. Most light built
up wood wings, can not take the full force, so you tap the winch pedal to
moderate that force. The trick is to learn how to do this WHILE time the throw
AND while you fly the plane AND you watch the wings for signs of stress.

I had tremendous coordination problems. If the plane went off angle I would
freeze on the pulses, causing full pedal force, braking a wing. The next time I
might not have enough tension on the line and when I threw the plane the plane
would stall before the winch had enough pull to fly it. CRASH.

Now, for many people this coordination issue is not such a big deal. For me it
was.

If you have an experienced winch pilot around, get them to help you. Have them
launch the plane for you so you can see how it is done. Then have them launch
and pedal while you fly the plane up. Then switch places so you operate the
pedal and they fly it so they can coach you. Then you take the radio and the
pedal and have them throw the plane. This way you only add one operation at a
time. When those operations are comfortable then you can do it all.

I have found that faster shorter, evenly timed taps provide a more even, less
stressful load on the wings. Long pulses followed by gaps seems to put more
stress on the wings as you build force, then let it off. This seems to flex the
wings more than short fast taps. Those long on long off tend to flap the wings,
so to speak.

If you have a covered wing, you can look at the flex of the wing but another
indicator of stress is wrinkles in the covering. On my Spirit wing, when I
launch it off my very strong hi-start, at 14 pounds of pull I get some wrinkle
in the covering. At 10 pounds of pull, I don't see it. If you start to see
wrinkle on the covering back off a bit.

The other thing that is tricky is the throw/release. On a hi-start, there is
tension all the time so when you throw the plane it is under constant pull
immediately. With the winch you have to control how much tension, how much to
build up before you throw the plane and when to start tapping. If you don't
have enough tension, the plane will stall. Too much and .... CRACK... :(

Naturally you also have to keep the plane straight. With a hi-start it is
easier because the tension is there, you can take a comfortable stance, then
throw the plane with flat wings. With the winch you are pulsing, judging the
tension, preparing to throw AND making sure the wings are level. Easy.

I might be making this sound too complicated, but I will tell you that I had a
LOT of trouble learning to use the winch. Now it is my main launch method.

With my Spirit and similar light planes, I do not tension the line very much. I
feel pull on the line but I do not build it up enough to pull much of the line
off the ground. This way the curved line provides some cushion for the pulses.
For my Thermal Dancer and my Legend, I build up a lot of force before I throw
the plane. Much of the line is off the ground and I have a very very strong
force, but these planes can take a full pedal launch.

OLLIE's SUGGESTION

Here is a practice exercise in controlling the winch that does not endanger a
plane. This was suggested to me by Ollie, an extremely knowledgeable sailplane
pilot.

Hold the launching ring in your hand so that if it is pulled hard it can leave
your hand it without taking any flesh with it or jerk you off your feet. You
might consider using a glove. Don't put your finger through the ring. Don't
wrap the string around anything. When I do this, I usually hold the chute or
the ring between my thumb and index finger so if I over pulse, the line will
just be pulled out of my fingers.

At first, tap the pedal so lightly that the winch doesn't even turn. While
maintaining the rhythm of the tap, gradually increase the length/strength of the
on cycle until the briefest contact is made and the winch starts to pull. Keep
the taps as short and light as you can. Do this so you have no trouble holding
the line.

Vary the rhythm to control the pull on the line. You vary the pull by the
frequency of the pulses. Feel the cycles of pull and imagine this force on your
plane. If you use a hi-start, try to control the pull so that it is like the
pull on your hi-start. Long bursts with long gaps tend to jerk the plane but
they do prevent the pressure from building up too much. Feel what the plane
will feel. Short frequent pulses will give you a more steady pull. You vary
the force by how much on time you give it.

Practice until you can maintain a constant pull without having to release the
ring. Then practice some more until you can maintain the constant pull while
holding a
conversation with someone else. Then practice some more until you can do it
while working math problems in your head or any other mental exercise that
requires your full concentration

If you are new glider pilot, this is a great resource:
http://forums.flyesl.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=224

[DACeller]

I use the same winch in Minnesota and fly nothing but 2M. Here, there is nominally a wind, which actually makes launching easier but you have to use less pedal and 'kite' it up. Windless days are actually more challenging. Also, do 'tapping' as was suggested but with the parachute on the ground and watch it inflate and drop as you tap. Try to keep it from inflating by making the taps light/smaller and the chute will simply drag along the ground. It doesn't take long to get a rhythm remembering that the particular day & wind is what you are optimizing for; And if you use too much pedal, their may be a backlash on the winch even with the belt brake when you get off the tap. If you do this light enough, that won't happen. I find tapping a 2-3/second nominal on a day with >10 MPH wind, less on more wind days, and more on windless days. If the chute comes off during an actual launch(popoff), you may need to speed up your tap; make sure you aren't trying to climb to steeply as that too will cause a popoff; and make sure you toss the plane with the first tap. Forget the Zoom until much later!!

[Fly2High]

MY best suggestion is to find a local pilot experienced in winch launching to help you with the technique.

I found that there is too much to be taught that are better handled by hands on tutillage. An experienced can help you with all the nuances best.

Everyone here can offer pointers but this is more of a black art. You will learn it faster with assistance and probably have less damage that way as well.


IMHO...

[Tank52]

Thanks for the inputs guys...please keep them coming.

Tank

[Tank52]

Fly2High,
I appreciate the suggestion (that is great advice) but you may not have read my first post...
As far as I know I'm a one-man show for winch launching here in this part of the Northern Tier. I'd be more than happy to ask for a hand with if I could find someone else with the same interest and more experience. I'm not too concerned about the technique. I taught myself to fly electrics, slope, and way back when...thermal with a GL. I know that winch launching is a completely different animal and I agree completely that it would be best to find some help. However, barring that I'm on my own and I certainly appreciate everyone's inputs...

Right now I think I'll go with the cheap and sturdy Easy Glider to build technique.

Thanks again guys,
Tank52


MY best suggestion is to find a local pilot experienced in winch launching to help you with the technique.

I found that there is too much to be taught that are better handled by hands on tutillage. An experienced can help you with all the nuances best.

Everyone here can offer pointers but this is more of a black art. You will learn it faster with assistance and probably have less damage that way as well.


IMHO...

[Fly2High]

WE have a few guys flying that plane and they broke the tow hook on it winch launch it (I think it was rather carefully, too.).

I would suggest beefing it up and put a midline plate or something to put in a real hook on it.

I don't have a clue what is best but I do know that hook is rather poor.

Oh yeah, I will give you the advice a very smart man told me about winch launching

" JUST CHUCK IT!!!"

When you are at the winch, build up a bit of tension and don't second guess doing it. When it is time to launch, throw it and throw it hard!! You have no air speed and need all the help you can get.

That is it. Good luck. You might send out an APB on other sections here as well as on Yahoo groups. I am sure you will find someone.

Let us know how you do.

Frank

Sorry I didn't read your original post more closely but my advice would still stand even in light of that. We all spend too much on planes and time on building to chance them. If there is a contest anywhere in driving distance, go there. You can learn the ropes from them.

Good Luck

[Fly2High]

So far I have found these clubs. Maybe they know some glider guiders

Bismarck Aircraft Modelers (BAM) - AMA-chartered club based in Bismarck, ND.
Valley R/C Flyers - Fargo, ND

Minot Aircraft Modelers - Minot, ND **do mention gliders

[Fly2High]

Tank52,
I went ot AMA and found this list - some may have glider guys!!!

Name Number Members Contact Address District Intro Pilots
BASIN MODELERS ASSOCIATION
1666 12 ROBERT SCHREIBER
Email Contact 425 14TH AVE WEST
WILLISTON ND 58801
Phone: 701-774-1117
9 No
BISMARCK AIRCRAFT MODELERS
Flying Site Details
4548 14 BRUCE PENNINGTON
Email Contact 1427 PRAIRIE VIEW DR
BISMARCK ND 58501
Phone: 701.471.7156
9 Yes
BOTNO BALSA BUSTERS
Flying Site Details
2264 13 LOREN MOEN
Email Contact 607 VERA ST
BOTTINEAU ND 58367
Phone: 701/228-3825
9 Yes
BUFFALO CITY RC SQUADRON
109 13 DAVID NELSON
Email Contact 915 9TH ST SW
JAMESTOWN ND 58401
Phone: 701.252.5438
9 No
DAKOTA SKYMASTERS
Flying Site Details
3221 31 BERNARD BAUMLER
Email Contact 3935 149TH AVE SE
WHEATLAND ND 58079
Phone: 701.347.4035
9 No
F-M SKYLARKS INC
Flying Site Details
491 15 PAUL KEGEL
Email Contact 910 12TH ST N
FARGO ND 58102
Phone: 701.237.3901
9 No
GRAND FORKS AFB FLATLANDERS RC MODELERS
2347 12 KENNETH SCHULER
Email Contact 2423 9TH AVE SOUTH
GRAND FORKS ND 58201
Phone:
9 No
MINOT AIRCRAFT MODELERS
1195 45 ROGER LEE
Email Contact 1616 1ST AV SE
MINOT ND 58701
Phone: 701-839-5294
Visit Website
9 No
MO SLOPE MODEL AERO CLUB INC
Flying Site Details
407 39 ROD MATZKE
Email Contact 1316 ALBANY DR
BISMARCK ND 58504
Phone: 701-255-3893
Visit Website
9 No
SLOPE AREA GOLDEN EAGLES
Flying Site Details
1650 10 RYAN JILEK
Email Contact 3671 114R AVE SW
DICKINSON ND 58601
Phone: 701-483-9339
Visit Website
9 No
THUNDERBIRD FLYING CLUB
Flying Site Details
1060 8 ANDREW TIBERT
Email Contact 6030 145TH AVE NE
MINTO ND 58261
Phone: 701-248-3713
9 No
VALLEY RC FLYERS
767 74 PAUL LENZMEIER
Email Contact PO BOX 7272
FARGO ND 58106
Phone:
Visit Website
9 Yes

[Jose E Bruzual]

Tank52,

Here is an article on launching technique, written by one of our ESL members -

Edit: wrong link removed

Jose

New link: http://www.flyesl.com/News-y-Articles/featured_article.asp?FORUM_ID=7&TOPIC_ID=112

[ThermalBuster]

If you've never used a winch before and you don't have someone to teach you (or even if you do) here is an exercise that can significantly improve your chances for early success.

String your winch with relatively light line. No heaver than #21 and #18 might be better. The intent here is to put some stretch in the system and make the pulsing easier on the plane.

Put your turnaround out as far as you can 900 feet would not be too much. This again makes the line stretchy and gives you more time to react to your pulsing.

Then take and hold the tow ring in your hand and practice pulsing the winch with the foot switch to keep a nice even tension on the line without pulling yourself off of the pedal or backlashing the winch. When you have the knack of taking up the slack line and tapping where you can hold a nice even tension on the winch line you have mastered most of what it takes to launch a plane.

This is not as easy as it sounds. The first few trys you'll probably pull yourself off of the pedal. Then you will stop pedalling for too long to keep from pulling yourself down the field and the line will go slack. But once you get the knack you will be able to hold an even tension with a nice even tapping of the pedal. Then you are ready to try it with an airplane hooked up.

Hope this helps.

Rick

[rdwoebke]

I'm building a Tim McCann Winch (http://www.superskeg.com/wn-cart-freeman.html) right now. This is my first winch and unfortunately, I don't have a lot of help available to me here in North Dakota.

Nice! Good on you for building a winch.

The plane you are re-covering will be fine. Just tippity tapp the thing up the line and you should be OK.

If you are really, really worried about breaking the thing, you could run the winch through jumper cables. Jumper cables will really drop the voltage to the winch (and they will get hot) and that will limit the power you can get into the motor.

Ryan

[Jose E Bruzual]

I gave the wrong link on the launching article; here is the correct one again

http://www.flyesl.com/News-y-Articles/featured_article.asp?FORUM_ID=7&TOPIC_ID=112

Thanks

[Tank52]

Wow, that's quite a list! Thanks for putting that together, I'll contact a couple.

Tank



Tank52,
I went ot AMA and found this list - some may have glider guys!!!

Name Number Members Contact Address District Intro Pilots
BASIN MODELERS ASSOCIATION
1666 12 ROBERT SCHREIBER
Email Contact 425 14TH AVE WEST
WILLISTON ND 58801
Phone: 701-774-1117
9 No
BISMARCK AIRCRAFT MODELERS
Flying Site Details
4548 14 BRUCE PENNINGTON
Email Contact 1427 PRAIRIE VIEW DR
BISMARCK ND 58501
Phone: 701.471.7156
9 Yes
BOTNO BALSA BUSTERS
Flying Site Details
2264 13 LOREN MOEN
Email Contact 607 VERA ST
BOTTINEAU ND 58367
Phone: 701/228-3825
9 Yes
BUFFALO CITY RC SQUADRON
109 13 DAVID NELSON
Email Contact 915 9TH ST SW
JAMESTOWN ND 58401
Phone: 701.252.5438
9 No
DAKOTA SKYMASTERS
Flying Site Details
3221 31 BERNARD BAUMLER
Email Contact 3935 149TH AVE SE
WHEATLAND ND 58079
Phone: 701.347.4035
9 No
F-M SKYLARKS INC
Flying Site Details
491 15 PAUL KEGEL
Email Contact 910 12TH ST N
FARGO ND 58102
Phone: 701.237.3901
9 No
GRAND FORKS AFB FLATLANDERS RC MODELERS
2347 12 KENNETH SCHULER
Email Contact 2423 9TH AVE SOUTH
GRAND FORKS ND 58201
Phone:
9 No
MINOT AIRCRAFT MODELERS
1195 45 ROGER LEE
Email Contact 1616 1ST AV SE
MINOT ND 58701
Phone: 701-839-5294
Visit Website
9 No
MO SLOPE MODEL AERO CLUB INC
Flying Site Details
407 39 ROD MATZKE
Email Contact 1316 ALBANY DR
BISMARCK ND 58504
Phone: 701-255-3893
Visit Website
9 No
SLOPE AREA GOLDEN EAGLES
Flying Site Details
1650 10 RYAN JILEK
Email Contact 3671 114R AVE SW
DICKINSON ND 58601
Phone: 701-483-9339
Visit Website
9 No
THUNDERBIRD FLYING CLUB
Flying Site Details
1060 8 ANDREW TIBERT
Email Contact 6030 145TH AVE NE
MINTO ND 58261
Phone: 701-248-3713
9 No
VALLEY RC FLYERS
767 74 PAUL LENZMEIER
Email Contact PO BOX 7272
FARGO ND 58106
Phone:
Visit Website
9 Yes

[Tank52]

That all sounds good. Thanks for the advice Frank.

~Tank

WE have a few guys flying that plane and they broke the tow hook on it winch launch it (I think it was rather carefully, too.).

I would suggest beefing it up and put a midline plate or something to put in a real hook on it.

I don't have a clue what is best but I do know that hook is rather poor.

Oh yeah, I will give you the advice a very smart man told me about winch launching

" JUST CHUCK IT!!!"

When you are at the winch, build up a bit of tension and don't second guess doing it. When it is time to launch, throw it and throw it hard!! You have no air speed and need all the help you can get.

That is it. Good luck. You might send out an APB on other sections here as well as on Yahoo groups. I am sure you will find someone.

Let us know how you do.

Frank

Sorry I didn't read your original post more closely but my advice would still stand even in light of that. We all spend too much on planes and time on building to chance them. If there is a contest anywhere in driving distance, go there. You can learn the ropes from them.

Good Luck

[Tank52]

Thanks Jeb...good tips and photos of launch methods there...

I gave the wrong link on the launching article; here is the correct one again

http://www.flyesl.com/News-y-Articles/featured_article.asp?FORUM_ID=7&TOPIC_ID=112

Thanks

[Tank52]

Thanks Rick...that sounds like a good exercise. I haven't ordered line yet...I guess the #18 should be fine for a while with my 2M aircraft.

~Tank

If you've never used a winch before and you don't have someone to teach you (or even if you do) here is an exercise that can significantly improve your chances for early success.

String your winch with relatively light line. No heaver than #21 and #18 might be better. The intent here is to put some stretch in the system and make the pulsing easier on the plane.

Put your turnaround out as far as you can 900 feet would not be too much. This again makes the line stretchy and gives you more time to react to your pulsing.

Then take and hold the tow ring in your hand and practice pulsing the winch with the foot switch to keep a nice even tension on the line without pulling yourself off of the pedal or backlashing the winch. When you have the knack of taking up the slack line and tapping where you can hold a nice even tension on the winch line you have mastered most of what it takes to launch a plane.

This is not as easy as it sounds. The first few trys you'll probably pull yourself off of the pedal. Then you will stop pedalling for too long to keep from pulling yourself down the field and the line will go slack. But once you get the knack you will be able to hold an even tension with a nice even tapping of the pedal. Then you are ready to try it with an airplane hooked up.

Hope this helps.

Rick

[Tank52]

Nice! Good on you for building a winch.

The plane you are re-covering will be fine. Just tippity tapp the thing up the line and you should be OK.

If you are really, really worried about breaking the thing, you could run the winch through jumper cables. Jumper cables will really drop the voltage to the winch (and they will get hot) and that will limit the power you can get into the motor.

Ryan

Thanks Ryan.

~Tank

[aeajr]

Jeb,

That is an awesome article. I had not see that before. Thanks for posting the link. I am adding it to the club weekly newsletter and the next edition of the ESL newsletter.

Ed

[John Walter]

I don't know if it is mentioned in the articles referenced in prior posts, but NEVER put your finger through the tow ring while retrieving. If someone accidently steps on the foot pedal, you will lose a finger.

Also, when you retrieve the chute, fold the chute in half with the ring toward the turnaround. If some accidently steps in the foot pedal, the chute will pull out of your hand without dragging the ring through your grip.

[Tank52]

I don't know if it is mentioned in the articles referenced in prior posts, but NEVER put your finger through the tow ring while retrieving. If someone accidently steps on the foot pedal, you will lose a finger.

Also, when you retrieve the chute, fold the chute in half with the ring toward the turnaround. If some accidently steps in the foot pedal, the chute will pull out of your hand without dragging the ring through your grip.

Safety advice is always good. Thanks for posting this...

~Tank

[Tank52]

I'm looking for a quality tow hook to replace the stock hook that came in my Easy Glider Kit. Any recommendations?

~Tank

[aeajr]

Where do you plan to mount it? The antenna runs down the bottom center of the plane on my EGE. Where is it on your EG? Can you mount a hook without hitting it?

[Jose E Bruzual]

Tank, look at Kennedy composites; it's the same tow hook the Supra uses and AVA so at least when you are hooking your glider to the winch it will feel as if you where hooking a Supra...

I have one, and by far the best

http://www.kennedycomposites.com/accessories-towhook.html

J

[Tank52]

I made some progress on the McCann winch this week. Installed a set of "REALBALLS" and started on the wiring package provided by the folks at Injoy Lure Coursing (http://www.injoy-1.com/catal_sail.htm). More to follow. Here are a couple of photos...

~Tank

[Tank52]

I finished the McCann Winch this weekend. This thing purrrrrs like a kitten. I picked up the LED solenoid indicator kit from Cal Posthuma here (http://www.altelco.net/~calplsf/solenoid_led.htm). Now I just need to get a deep cycle battery and some braided twine and I'll be ready for a test run. Here are a few more shots of the completed winch...

~Tank

[Hostage-46]

Realballs looks smokin'

Did about 15 launches on a McCan setup today, total of at least 40 launches...optima battery never even flinched

[Tank52]

Realballs looks smokin'

Did about 15 launches on a McCan setup today, total of at least 40 launches...optima battery never even flinched

Thanks Dan. The quality of the McCann kit is truly impressive. A machinist friend of mine said "the guy who designed this kit has some skills." Doug Boyd's "RealBalls" are a work of art as well. I'm very pleased with the way this project went together.

I think I might go with the Optima D34 or D34/78.

~Tank

[aeajr]

Until you get your deep cycle battery, use some jumpers and run it off the car battery. I have done this many times.

I would not recommend 6 hours of hard launching, but 10-15 launches will not drain your battery enough to be a concern.

[Hostage-46]

Thanks Dan. The quality of the McCann kit is truly impressive. A machinist friend of mine said "the guy who designed this kit has some skills." Doug Boyd's "RealBalls" are a work of art as well. I'm very pleased with the way this project went together.

I think I might go with the Optima D34 or D34/78.

~Tank

Oh and we were also charging airplanes and xmitters... go Marine Blue!

[rdwoebke]

Until you get your deep cycle battery, use some jumpers and run it off the car battery. I have done this many times.
.

I must have crummy jumpers, because I tried that a few weeks ago and the jumpers got hot but the winch pulled weakly.

Ryan

[aeajr]

You must have crummy jumpers. I have done it myself with good success. Just make sure you get a good BITE on the battery and good contact on the winch and you should have plenty of power to drive a winch using jumper cables.

[rdwoebke]

I guess I'll try better jumpers then sometime...

BTW, congrats on eclipsing 10K posts...

Ryan

[aeajr]

I am just more full of BS than most. Between all the other boards I must have another 7K or more.

I need counceling. Maybe there is a discussion forum for people with over 10K posts on one board.

[Mchone, Jake]

Subscribed

[Tank52]

Update: I bought the largest WalMart Deep cycle Marine battery that they had (EverStart Marine Maxx-29) Couldn't pass as it was on sale for $45+core. Also picked up a Marine battery case and a Battery Minder to keep her topped off this winter. Ready for some Spring flying weather....temps have been in the single digits above and below zero here lately.

~Tank

[Tank52]

Here's a review (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142474) of the Battery Minder in case anyone is interested. I've been using one for a couple months now and it works great.

~Tank