Blade CP or Honey Bee King 2

[Gebhardt]

Hi

i have a lama V4 for indoors but want to get one for outdoors and 3d..

witch is the better one Blade CP or Honey Bee King 2 or should i look at sumthing els?

the blade cp seems to have a better motor..

any sugestion would be nice!!

Thanks

[ducatirdr]

Neither one of those can do decent 3D without upgrading to a brushless motor. If I had to choose between the two I'd pick the HBK2 with a 3900 motor and a decent Head Hold gyro. I have both and love my HBK2 for 3D.

The Blade CP Pro I use stock and it can just barely handle flips without falling out of the sky.

[Gebhardt]

the specs on belt cp is a brushless motor will that help.. i am in South Africa and heli's ar not that easy to get and the parts are even harder to get butt i will keep looking.

Belt CP

Fully aerobatic heli at an affordable price.

Rotor span: 680mm, Weight: +-670gm

Full CCPM head assembly

Belt drive tail rotor

Comes with:

450 size 3800KV brushless motor

25A brushless speed controller

Tail lock Gyro

4x 1.3Kg 8gm servos

[rockrand]

I have a Belt and love it and it did come with a brushless motor.

[Gebhardt]

rockrand how long can u fly with a battary
and how is the 3d flying? upside down and everything..

what is the best aspect of the belt for u?

[DriveWRX]

Gebhardt,
Go with the King2.
I have a HB CP2 (similar to the Blade CP) and a King2. Although I don't do 3D yet, I can tell you that the King2 is much more responsive and agile, especially with the right motor and gyro.

I run a JGF 400DH motor with a Phoenix 25 ESC and a E-Flite HH gyro on my King2. Tons of power!
Also, it has a belt driven tail. I'm really tired of having to replace tail motors on the CP2...

[kt74]

Hi

i have a lama V4 for indoors but want to get one for outdoors and 3d..

witch is the better one Blade CP or Honey Bee King 2 or should i look at sumthing els?

the blade cp seems to have a better motor..

any sugestion would be nice!!

Thanks
Hi Gebhart!
Honestly, if all you have flown is co-axial helis, you might want to go with the Honeybee FP That's what I did. I now have a Belt CP and I am so glad I did it that way. I haven't crashed the Belt once! The HBFP is a great heli to learn on and it's tough as nails. When you crash you mostly just have to straighten out the blades and take off again. With the Belt CP you'll be headed to the parts store :p
So check out the Honeybee FP. I know you'll be really happy if you do. http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=W262062
Most of these places will deliver internationally.

Then, when you are ready to move up to a CP heli, the larger size of the Belt-CP means that it's much more stable in the air and less susceptible to wind. That's just my two cents. If you're interested I have a bunch of videos of the Honeybee FP and then a couple of the Belt CP. I made a video of my maiden hover with the Belt CP... straight from the HBFP... just to show how much flying the FP helped.

Just my 2 cents. Good luck with your choice.

Shaun

[Gebhardt]

whats the dif between fp and cp??

[kt74]

whats the dif between fp and cp??
FP = Fixed Pitch
CP = Collective Pitch

Fixed Pitch helicopters usually use 4 channels which control throttle, pitch (forward/backward), roll (left/right), and yaw (rudder/tail rotor). You control your altitude by how much throttle you apply. So, faster headspeed = greater lift. FP helis require much less setup than CP helis and so you are in the air quicker. An FP rotor head is also much less complex and so there is less to break in a crash. Usually, if you cut the throttle before you hit the ground, you won't break anything in the head.

Collective Pitch helicopters use 6 channels and up. With a CP your altitude is controlled by a mix of throttle and collective. Collective means you are changing the actual pitch of the main rotor blades which of course will generate more lift.
You have the option of flying a CP heli in two modes: NORMAL and IDLE UP. In NORMAL mode your stick operation is similar to an FP. With the throttle stick at the lowest position you have 0 throttle and 0 degrees pitch. Moving the throttle stick up will apply throttle and the blade pitch is mixed in to generate your lift. So moving the throttle stick up from the lowest position will change your pitch from 0 to between 8 and 11 degrees, depending on your setup.
IDLE UP mode is used for aerobatic and 3D flying. In IDLE UP your throttle is held at a constant level (80-90%) and your altitude is controlled by varying the pitch of the blades. The difference here is that your blade pitch now goes from, for instance, -10 degrees (at lowest stick position) to +10 degrees (at highest stick position). So, 0 pitch is now at mid-stick on the throttle instead of the lowest position as with an FP. Negative pitch allows for inverted flight, rolls, loops, etc.

I really do recommend starting with an FP heli. Sure, you can learn on a CP... but unless you are some flying prodigy you will crash. Repairs on a CP are more costly... not because parts are more expensive, but because more parts break at one time during a crash. While learning to fly I crashed the FP several times with zero damage! I must have jinxed myself by telling you in my first post that I have never crashed the Belt-CP... because I crashed this weekend. The damage... a stripped main gear, bent flybar, bent feathering shaft (goes between the blade grips). And I have been told that this is "light" damage compared to a usual CP crash. I have had to take the whole head apart just to be sure that nothing else broke that I couldn't see. Then, once the new parts arrive and get installed I'll have to do the setup all over again. So, there is a lot more tinkering to be done on a CP heli than with an FP. And while tinkering is fun, it's not quite as fun as actually flying! :D

This is a long post, but I didn't really know how a CP worked until I actually got one. So I thought a simple explanation would be in order. Please feel free to ask as many questions as you want... With helis, there are no stupid questions.

Later,
Shaun

[Gebhardt]

Thanks a million!!

now i understand a bit better.. :D

i got myself a esky simulator just do get the basics down before i crash the new heli i am planning to by on fryday..

one thing i need to know is it seems that the sim is 8 channel and the heli's i am lookin at is 6.

so how do i setup the sim so that it would be the same as the real heli controller. :confused:
i have the following in the setup

http://img527.imageshack.us/img527/3586/channelsmb3.th.jpg (http://img527.imageshack.us/my.php?image=channelsmb3.jpg)

[Gebhardt]

lol i am going to crack myself... sh*t the sim controller i got only work the 4 channels!!!

now i wanna cry... y dont they have i smiley for that.???

so the honey bee mkII is a fp helli?? or not? what is the best fp heli?

and they cant do inferted flying?

[kt74]

lol i am going to crack myself... sh*t the sim controller i got only work the 4 channels!!!

now i wanna cry... y dont they have i smiley for that.???

so the honey bee mkII is a fp helli?? or not? what is the best fp heli?

and they cant do inferted flying?
Learning to fly the FP with the 4-channel tx in the simulator is fine too. Once you can fly the FP, and get a Belt-CP or whatever, you can hook up your 6-channel tx to your pc.
Yes, the Honeybee Mark II/III is a fixed-pitch helicopter. I haven't flown any other fixed pitch helis, but I absolutely love the Honeybee FP. The electronics are decent and I haven't had any problems.

[Gebhardt]

hi

i spoke to a instructor at a rc school here and he told me that its basicly the same to fly a lama 4 4channel and any other fp heli coz the controls are the same.

so im going to buy a cp heli on fryday. in that case i am going for belt cp.. will take it really slow and one step at a time.

thanks for all the feedback ppl :)

[kt74]

hi

i spoke to a instructor at a rc school here and he told me that its basicly the same to fly a lama 4 4channel and any other fp heli coz the controls are the same.

so im going to buy a cp heli on fryday. in that case i am going for belt cp.. will take it really slow and one step at a time.

thanks for all the feedback ppl :)
:eek:
Yes, the controls are the same in that each has 4 channels... but a lama will hover itself while a single rotor heli has completely different physics and needs constant input. Within 5 minutes of opening my brand-new FP I broke a part that grounded me... :o
It's not the controls that are the issue, it's the way the heli flies that makes it tough. Can you learn to fly single-rotor helis on a CP... yes you can. But you can't just pick up a CP, straighten the blades and keep flying... Due to the nature of a CP heli every time you crash, something WILL bend/break/need to be re-setup.
I respect your decision though. The Belt-CP is a great heli and you will love flying it. Take it really slow, get training gear and be patient. Join the Belt-CP forum and let us know how you're doing. ;)

[Blade_Killer]

LOL, a Lama 4 flies NOTHING like a single rotor 4ch fp......and a CP is even harder to fly....I would strongly suggest you re-evaluate your choice and get a Honey Bee FP and learn on that.

[Gebhardt]

Thanks guys!!

where is the belt cp forum.. and i will keep u up to date on my progress.
i cant wait till vryday. i feel like a little boy with a new toy.. only difs is iam a big boy and biger toy lol i think im worst than a little boy lol

the thing about fp heli is.. im in south africa and i phoned every hobby shop in SA that i could find throug the phone directory and friends who know of shops.. the only fp hellis they stock is the multi roter. like lama's!!
i know and i dont have a credit card to bey over the net!!

i ges in sum way its bad but in a nother i will be forced to learn and fly the belt..
i will for sure get training gare and take one step at a time.. sure i will crash and brake stuf. its like saying one will learn to ride a bike or walk without falling... lol

but with the sim and the training gare i hope that the crashes will be minimum..

thanks poeple.
i hade a look at the sim i showed above and i can putt all 8 channels on it. can anyone please tell me how are he's belt controlles and maybe i can set it up the same and get a feelin.. coz i set it up in a dif way than the lama. like: where the lama throttle was left stick and up its now left stick and center right. if i move left stick up or down on hover the heli tilt left or right. is that right or do i have it all wrong. coz i have negatif pitch when left stick is pushed to left and on the sim i can hover upside down on negative pitch when left stick are on left side. :confused:

thanks

[Tweekster]

i spoke to a instructor at a rc school here and he told me that its basicly the same to fly a lama 4 4channel and any other fp heli coz the controls are the same.

That doesn't seem like an instructor with much heli experience!

[kevs182]

From the Lama 4 I went straight to a CP heli (the Honey Bee King 2). Nonetheless, a Honey Bee FP as the next step up from a coaxial is sound advice. If you go with the CP heli, just make sure you put in a lot of sim time first before even trying to hover (I know it's difficult to resist).

Just make sure you stock enough parts--stuff like main rotor blades, feathering shafts, main gear, main shaft, drive belt, tail boom, flybar, etc...--that you won't be grounded for days or weeks after every crash. Individually, the parts don't cost much, but it all adds up. Pretty soon, you'll find you've invested just as much in parts as in the heli itself. :p

[Gebhardt]

lol

yess first flight was ok... but second one was ok until came down for landing... cut the power to much to fast (will not happen in sim) and the main blade hit the fin on the tail boom... and boom the blade and fin went lol

owel now new blade and balancing and tracking and maybe 2morrow will try my 3d hover...

id did alot of sim time.. and in sim i can even fly the thing upside down... but not atall the same as real thing... or my home made training gaer is of ballance..(think thats it.) gona go check the balans before i try the next time..

maybe thats it.

WOW heli got alot of power with brushless motor!!

can anyone tell me where is the best belt-cp forum..?

[kt74]

can anyone tell me where is the best belt-cp forum..?
This is where we hang out: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=569550

[misfire]

:eek:
Yes, the controls are the same in that each has 4 channels... but a lama will hover itself while a single rotor heli has completely different physics and needs constant input. Within 5 minutes of opening my brand-new FP I broke a part that grounded me... :o
It's not the controls that are the issue, it's the way the heli flies that makes it tough. Can you learn to fly single-rotor helis on a CP... yes you can. But you can't just pick up a CP, straighten the blades and keep flying... Due to the nature of a CP heli every time you crash, something WILL bend/break/need to be re-setup.
I respect your decision though. The Belt-CP is a great heli and you will love flying it. Take it really slow, get training gear and be patient. Join the Belt-CP forum and let us know how you're doing. ;)
Shaun, thanks for your posts here, very good, thorough - and patient. I'm just started on an FP, but not too far down the road I hope to be ready for a Belt CP.

Gebhardt, everybody's trying not to put a fine point on this, but go with the FP, mail order if necessary, and be patient! If you by the Belt you are going to hemorrage money, spend all your time waiting for parts, and either quit in disgust - or buy an FP :)

That's not my personal knowledge, but the same thing has been said a thousand times on this site and elsewhere. Of course there are many who have been successful with the big jump straight to a CP, but they are the (strangely gifted) minority. I can fly the heck out of my Lama; I have it back under standard rotor blades without a single nick in a month. But frankly, a coax is not a real helicopter. The the tail-rotor bird will be like starting over. It is very hard at first, and crashes will happen. The FP is just so much more suitable for this kind of abuse. And incredibly fun to fly!


I have a question. I read the manual for one of the CP's online a few weeks back, forget which. And I got the impression that even in Idle Up mode, advancing the throttle stick above neutral gives you a mix of throttle and collective pitch, rather than just collective. At the time, it seemed to me that increasing the throttle sort of defeated the purpose of CP control? Did I read the Chinglish wrong? Or is it different on different models?

Your explanation above made sense, saying that the throttle remains constant at 80-90%. Where is the throttle control on the 6+channel TX?

Thanks,

Misfire

[kt74]

Shaun, thanks for your posts here, very good, thorough - and patient. I'm just started on an FP, but not too far down the road I hope to be ready for a Belt CP.

Gebhardt, everybody's trying not to put a fine point on this, but go with the FP, mail order if necessary, and be patient! If you by the Belt you are going to hemorrage money, spend all your time waiting for parts, and either quit in disgust - or buy an FP :)

That's not my personal knowledge, but the same thing has been said a thousand times on this site and elsewhere. Of course there are many who have been successful with the big jump straight to a CP, but they are the (strangely gifted) minority. I can fly the heck out of my Lama; I have it back under standard rotor blades without a single nick in a month. But frankly, a coax is not a real helicopter. The the tail-rotor bird will be like starting over. It is very hard at first, and crashes will happen. The FP is just so much more suitable for this kind of abuse. And incredibly fun to fly!


I have a question. I read the manual for one of the CP's online a few weeks back, forget which. And I got the impression that even in Idle Up mode, advancing the throttle stick above neutral gives you a mix of throttle and collective pitch, rather than just collective. At the time, it seemed to me that increasing the throttle sort of defeated the purpose of CP control? Did I read the Chinglish wrong? Or is it different on different models?

Your explanation above made sense, saying that the throttle remains constant at 80-90%. Where is the throttle control on the 6+channel TX?

Thanks,

Misfire

I guess I could have stated that a little more clearly. Yes there is some throttle mixing going on when in IDLE UP. The stock Esky transmitter does this for you. If you have a computer tx then you can set your throttle curves. From what I have seen, throttle curves in IDLE UP for 3D flying are between 80% and 90%... sometimes up to 100% depending on how aggressive you set you pitch end-points.
For instance... here is a throttle pitch used by a particular pilot:
Throttle 100, 95, 90, 95, 100
Pitch -10, -5, 0, 5, 10
So for each pitch setting the throttle will follow based upon the program. Obviously, as more pitch is added the throttle increases to keep the RPM constant.

I hope that makes a bit more sense. ;)
Shaun

[Gebhardt]

misfire i did get the blade cp but i turned off CP and i am learning on FP.. wound even try to go CP now.... lol wound dare it...

can any one tell me the best Simulator (closes to real rc heli flying) coz the one i have is SH*#TY!!! not even close to the real thing.

i hope i can get a better one coz i dont have a credit card to order online and to get that in SA maybe imposible. :eek:

is it posible to make a connection for my 6ch controller to connect it to a pc?

[kt74]

misfire i did get the blade cp but i turned off CP and i am learning on FP.. wound even try to go CP now.... lol wound dare it...

can any one tell me the best Simulator (closes to real rc heli flying) coz the one i have is SH*#TY!!! not even close to the real thing.

i hope i can get a better one coz i dont have a credit card to order online and to get that in SA maybe imposible. :eek:

is it posible to make a connection for my 6ch controller to connect it to a pc?
FMS isn't the best sim out there but it definitely helps you learn orientation and how to work the sticks. I have tried out some higher-end sims and even those are not exactly like the real thing.
Here's a thread that explains how to make a cable that connects your tx to your pc. It's pretty simple to do and works great. Let me know if this helps out.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=518511

[Gebhardt]

kt74 Thanks !!!!!!!!

i will make a cable and try te new controller on the sim.