Park Winch??? (Small and Cheap?)

[Pfitz]

Hi all,

I am wondering if anyone has plans for a very inexpensive electric winch? I mostly fly electric planes but also small gliders, mostly under 2 meters. I currently have a GP fling (48" wing span and just over 7 onunces) I have been using a small hi-start but the latex is going bad and I am thinking of a winch.

All the plans I have found are suited better for large sailplanes and run into several hundred $$$ to even build myself. Does anyone have plans or designs for a simple cheap winch, say under $100?

Thanks

[rdwoebke]

There have been a few, over the years. Some have shown up in modeling magazines. One was built by a guy that took a RC glo plane starter setup, put a drum on it, and then used a 12 volt gel cell as the battery.

Ryan

[vintagesailplnr]

Hello:
I have a small winch that I have not used, about 1/4 the size of a sport winch. It is nearly complete, drum, frame and motor mounted, about 8-10 lbs I think I have selenoids. I was going to use "spyder wire," Kevlar, for winch line. I think I have at least one or two spools. If interested write to me at jle15@psu.edu. I have $130 invested. I can send a picture late tonight.
cheers,
Jim

[bobby legue]

Wasnt there something called the Grasshopper winch? It had a coil spring instead of an electric motor.
Bob

[Pfitz]

I have seen one web site showing the glow engine starter design. Right now that is probably the route I would look into. Can anyone provide rules of thumb on winch pull force / torque requirements and most importantly winch line speed to help me develope the proper spool diameter. Remember I will be flying small sailplanes up to"Bird of Time" sized ship.

-Pfitz

[spinolio]

Here is a link to the Grashopper winch:

http://www.grasshopperwinch.com/

They are sold out and not making any more. He's looking to sell out for $5,000

[DeeSmith]

Here is a link to a cheap small winch for dlg and smaller class planes.

http://www.slnt.org/hl15.htm

Dee

[Curare]

No offence, but this does remove itself from the KISS principle.

My little hi start fits almost in my pocket and is good for 200' launches.

Carting a winch and battery around for a DLG makes something that's easy and simple kinda hard.

[Pfitz]

Yes, I agree Curare a high start is very simple to use and has been working for me. My current tubing in my high start is going bad and I am thinking that I can spend $50 to $100 every 2 years to keep a good high start around or build a winch for less than $100 once and have it for many years.

-Pfitz

[Pfitz]

Dee Smith,

That link shows exactly the type of winch I am considering. do you know any details on how it performs or possible improvements?

-Pfitz

[rdwoebke]

I don't know what kind of rubber you use and how often you use your highstart, but the rubber on my NSP high start has been fine for a decade now...

ryan

[DeeSmith]

Pfitz,

I have no experience with small winches like that in the link. I did find another article about a similar winch in the January, 2003, issue of RCSD. The link below points to a pdf of the issue. Look on page 14 for the Ronnie Winch.

http://www.rcsoaringdigest.com/pdfs/RCSD-2003/RCSD-2003-01.pdf

Dee

[BMatthews]

I'm also not sure about your rubber source. My highstarts lasted for a good 6 to 8 years before I noticed that they were losing it and that the surface was starting to get little cracks in the rubber.

Even if it does only last a couple of years down where you are I would think that the extra bulk and weight of a winch would be more trouble than it's worth.

Look into the stuff that has the UV protective outer coating.

Also look into how you roll it up and store it. Storing it while wet from dew or where the sun can hit the rubber directly or the container it's in is very bad as well as storing it near electric motors. In a cool dark place with some ventilation so that it can dry properly yet stay cool and away from the sun is very important to any rubber product.

[Pfitz]

Well, my current high start was the "mini high start" that came with my GP Fling. It lasted about 2 years and was not flown that much. I always stored it in the basement in a metal storage cabinet with my other RC stuff. This year it had noticeably degraded to the point I just threw it out this last week end.

While I am still interested in building a "Ronnie Winch" from a nitro plane starter someday several of you have made me reconsider a home made high start.

In efforts to come across a inexpensive latex tubing source I have come across exercise tubing called Thera-Band Tubing. It comes in several different strengths and is color coded. I can get 100' for around $30 to $40. Has anyone tried this material?

-Pfitz

[Robglover]

Pfitz -

Cheap high start tubing will cost you more in the long run. Go to http://www.aerofoam.com/ and get hosemonster tubing of the appropriate size. It will last substantially longer than anything else out there, and it works better while doing so.

A winch is not free for life once it's bought. You will need to replace string, batteries, motor brushes, solenoids, and other incidentals occasionally if you actually use it. Quality pays off in the long run here as well.

[kitebugy]

Hi Phitz, I use 100ft of the thera band blue, and 350ft of mason line and I have launched every thing from 2-3.5 mtr gliders.
Chilliwack Dan

[Pfitz]

Kitebugy

How is the Thera-Tubing holding up? Where did you buy it? Did it come in one continuouse piece or did it have splices?

-Pfitz

[kitebugy]

Hi Pfitz, I got it at an exercise store in Calgary AB canada called Fitter.
After 4yrs it is still going strong.The blue came in 2-50ft lenghts. The lighter stuff, green I think, only comes in 30 ft lenghts. Not too hard to splice.
Have not used the green but it is same stuff just thinner. I think I paid 80.00 Canadian. Chilliwack Dan

[Pfitz]

Well, I think I will try the Thera-band tubing. If the material holds up as well as i think it will it should be a good method of making high starts as you can get it in many different strengths. For my little Fling I am going to try the Red.

Thanks all for your help.

-Pfitz

[bobthenuke]

Well, my current high start was the "mini high start" that came with my GP Fling. It lasted about 2 years and was not flown that much. I always stored it in the basement in a metal storage cabinet with my other RC stuff. This year it had noticeably degraded to the point I just threw it out this last week end.

While I am still interested in building a "Ronnie Winch" from a nitro plane starter someday several of you have made me reconsider a home made high start.

In efforts to come across a inexpensive latex tubing source I have come across exercise tubing called Thera-Band Tubing. It comes in several different strengths and is color coded. I can get 100' for around $30 to $40. Has anyone tried this material?

-Pfitz

A flying buddy built his hi start using blue exercise tubing and it works as well as, or better, than the commonly used "hi start" tubing. It cost a lot less, too. We're using it for 3 meter plus size gliders.

...bob

[Pfitz]

Is there any rules of thumb on how cold is too cold for the rubber on a high start? Since we are heading into fall and winter in Iowa I am wondering how long my flying season will last.

Pfitz

[Mangus]

A flying buddy built his hi start using blue exercise tubing and it works as well as, or better, than the commonly used "hi start" tubing. It cost a lot less, too. We're using it for 3 meter plus size gliders.

...bob

Thera-band blue (for launching 2-3m ships) is $48 shipped (100 ft) here:
http://www.amazon.com/Thera-Band-Exercise-Tubing-Latex-Yellow/dp/B00066D69A/ref=pd_bbs_6/002-1967238-8389631?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1192635571&sr=8-6

Black (3+ meter ships) is ~$59 shipped (100ft).

[Pfitz]

I ordered the Red online for $39 shipped. Hope to see it by early next week if not by the end of this week.

-Pfitz

[Pfitz]

Well my Thera-Band Red tubing arrived today!! This tubing came well packaged in a box and the 100 foot length came in 2 sections. One section was about 43 feet and the remainder was in the other section. I used the 43' piece for my first high start in conjunction with about 250' of string. As soon as it stops raining and I have time to fly I will try it out. The tubing itself has a .2" ID and a .05" wall producing a .3" OD.

-Pfitz

[Pfitz]

Well I had a chance to get out last night and try out the hi start made with Thera tubing. The temperature was about 50 degrees and the wind was blowing about 15 mph which is a little more than I like for my 7.5 oz Fling.

Overall the new hi start worked well. The pull force was definately stronger than the Mini Histart the fling came with and the over all length is longer so I hoped for higher launches. For the first launch I walked back about 20 steps and let it rip. Plenty of power and speed but the height was only average. I feel that the high winds may be having a negative affects on the overall height of the launches. Eventually I was stepping back about 35 steps and the launches did get higher.

Overall I am happy with the results but am interested to find out how well it performs on a calm day.

-Pfitz

[rdeis]

Cheap, no. Convenient, maybe.. Battery, line, brake, etc all ready-built and in a carry box. http://www.grimnergreyhounds.com/GRIMNER_BLACK_BOX.html

It's from a dog coursing site, but it turns out that the hound drag-lure coursing machines are basicly indistinguishable from soaring winches in most respects.

[Norm Furutani]

FWIW we've been using the green Theraband tubing for over a year. Twice a week, about 4 hrs. a day. It's holding up very well and we use it for old school 60" HLG's and 2M's. The club is the Soaring Union of Los Angeles, senior div. over the hill gang. Here's some pics.

[flystoolow]

My flying buddy (a real thinker) made himself an excellent little winch for small gliders (like the GP fling).

He took an old spin-casting fishing reel (they are geared about 6:1), cut the handle mostly off and mounted the remaining stub into the chuck of a cordless drill. The set-up is mounted on a little plywood board and uses very light line. A simple bent lever is mounted in such a way that when you step on one end, the other end depresses the drill's trigger.

Very nice little winch, the plane zooms right up.

[uh60ce]

just out of curriosity, what size/color of thera band would be good for an open class glider (120" wingspan) ? I'm looking to replace the tubing on my old hi start and that stuff looks/sounds like it might be a good replacement, I just don't know for sure what size to get, and I certainly don't want it to be too powerfull and end up folding the wings up on a launch! any suggestions?

[Alexandre Cruz]

We in Brazil are using a regular latex 200 (5mm od and 3mm id), they last about two years but you can buy it for U$5,00 (30ft). We, and people from Argentina, use the hi-starts (30ft rubber and 130ft nylon) a lot, specially during competitions, in mini-thermics category. I do not see the need for a winch but it maybe fun to try.

[Will M]

One of my upstarts for 60 inch HL gliders is red Theraband. The Theraband seems less elastic than the "regular" (Tower Hobbies 7/32" od) tubing. So, when pulling back to 5 lbs or so, there is less stretch and distance with the Theraband. To me, the launch seems quicker, but the height of the launch seems less than with the regular tubing. Both of the upstarts have 25 ft of rubber and 139 ft of 30 lb mono. Anyone else notice this, or is just my perception?

[dephela]

For my ol' HLG[Vertigo] the rubber is a 2M version from Aerofoam (http://www.aerofoam.com/). Fifty feet long, no extra line attached, just a stake at one end and a chute at the other. Run back 100' or so and toss. This is the easiest highstart of all to retreive! Really nice zooms off the top too!

[bobby legue]

Will,
When you have a tube that unloads so quickly add more line to it and you will get longer as well as higher launches.
Bob

[dephela]

Right Bobby, the short tube will give up all its energy before the plane gets very far up the line.

BTW, my setup is for launching to heights of only about 100-125' about what you would toss it to.

[Vince inTX.]

Strange that no one has mentioned the little big winch

http://www.irfmachineworks.com/lbwinch/

Its small and powerful and the workmanship is top notch from everything I have heard

Vince

[Will M]

Will,
When you have a tube that unloads so quickly add more line to it and you will get longer as well as higher launches.
Bob


Thanks, Bob.

The upstarts we use for Class A competition are standardized. Thus, the precise length of my two practice upstarts. I was mainly trying to point out the quick unloading characteristic of Theraband vs "regular" histart tubing since some folks are using Theraband as an alternative to regular tubing.

[Double Pappa]

So What is the general consensus ? Is the Theraband worth looking into for launching my Cularis and my EG? I was thinking about getting the blue for those two and maybe the yellow for a smaller bird I have in mind.