tool f3b repair advice

[gingin]

had a bit of a mishap - friday. my tool f3b v-tail was caught by the hatch-back of my volvo and pulled out the blind nut and split the v-tail cradle.
the v-tail itself is fine.

i need some advice on repair - i've attached a youtube video.

val

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuzsLZ9f5iU

[jofo1]

Val, did it pull through the surface or just come loose from the inside of the fuse? You will probably need to open up he underside of the fuse with a small hole to access gluing it back in place. I will take a look at mine and see if any ideas come to mind. Wait one.

jwf

[target]

After you glue the nut back in, then you can add a layer of glass to the v-tail saddle to tie it all back together. Put zagi tape on the underside of the v-tail, wet out the glass on the saddle, and bolt her down. Put vaseline on the bolts so they don't stick.

G/L,

Target

[gingin]

Val, did it pull through the surface or just come loose from the inside of the fuse? You will probably need to open up he underside of the fuse with a small hole to access gluing it back in place. I will take a look at mine and see if any ideas come to mind. Wait one.

jwf


yeah the blindnut split the v-tail cradle and actually broke loose from it's mounting from within the fuz.

miraculously the v-tail is a-ok.

vt

[djklein21]

This is a common problem with the Tool. I had a long conversation with Tom Kiesling about it at the F3b WC this July. The lack of composite fiber in more directions in the tail saddle caused a few F3b Tools to loose their tale on launch. To fix this problem, reinforce the underside of the saddle with some bias ply carbon fiber, the reinstall the tail hardware.

The tool is an awesome plane. It would have really caught on if it didnt shed its tail on a few influential pilots in Europe.

[infopimp]

Would have? Wow... the trends/fads really move fast... I thought the Tool just came out...

[timmig]

I've seen the plane-- I don't like it's ballast system-- having to remove a major part of the plane to change weight seems old hat. One piece V-tails on LOT'S of planes are weak and hard to transport--like the Viking for example-- I broke mine IN THE AIR! It was a good day--full ballast--but still-- it should be stronger than that. I like the plug-in V's like the Race M and Wizard, afer that--Xtails work very well.
Still--only IMHO--- fly what ya like! ;)

It did just come out---long enough to be the benefactor of some re-design work.
T

It's OKAY Val--- it's only one old man's opinion :D -- and it's worth all ya paid for it!! :p
Bring yer tool--- I'll get ya with my Viking!! ;)

[gingin]

the tool is a fast plane while the v-tail has never been a problem in flight - the only problem i have had is putting it into my car; which resulted in breaking the v-tail

i've fixed the damage, and performed a test flight all is good.

[jofo1]

The Tool has other problems besides the V-tail coming off easily.
FWIW
and It did just come out---long enough to need re-design work.
T
what other problems???

[gingin]

tim - what problems are you referring to? have you seen a tool f3b in person, watched it fly - even seen the ballast system - or have you gleaned all your knowledge from rcgroups and idle chat?


The Tool has other problems besides the V-tail coming off easily.
FWIW
and It did just come out---long enough to need re-design work.
T

[WOODY1]

Hi Val,
I have never seen this plane, do you have any pictrues of the plane you could post?
Woody

[glderguy]

You are catching on Steve, about trends/fads coming/going fast. I mean after all the manufacturers/importers ARE in the business of selling planes! Kinda reminds me a little how it used to be(maybe still is to some extent??) w/computers.....buy one and before you can blink an eye its out dated. Find yourself a good competitive plane and stick with it for a while as regardless of all the plane hype a good plane can stay competitive in practiced hands a lot longer than many realize.
Walter

[target]

From what I can tell, there is a BIG difference in the strain on an F3B plane launched on Mono line, and a plane flown in F3F...
F3F is much easier on planes, EXCEPT for some of the landing zones...

I'm sure your plane will be fine, Val.
Maybe you could post a picture of your repair?

Woody-
Jantar 1 did a build thread a while back on the Tool. Do a search, you'll find it.

Target

[djklein21]

I don't know of any other problems with the Tool. The V-tail structure issue has been improved, and the plane really impressed me in the Air. It is top of the line, it is built stiff, and it flies great. I would be happy to own one. You will never be at a disadvantage with that plane.

Tim N- Your opinion about planes has been very diminished in my eye. You seem to offer a negative opinion about many planes you have never flown/seen. I have high opinions about SUSA and many of the planes they carry. I also feel that I would rather own a plane if I get to buy it from Bob, but that doesn't mean other planes are any less great. In the future, please reserve your opinion to something you might actually know something about. I used to really enjoy listening to your opinion.

[timmig]

Ok Dave-- what's new on the V-tail? IF it's something simple--maybe I can do it to my Vikings tail. I've repaired the one I broke--and discovered that the shear web in it is balsa wood. It seperated lengthwise during a pylon turn in the air! I was luckily close to me that a friend and I heard it snap--managed to land without mis-hap-- and had a new V tail to use while I repaired the old one. I was able to seperate the leading edge and run carbon cloth down the balsa on both sides to attache the skins top and bottom around the front of the balsa shear web. That made it MUCH stronger-- and didn't add enough weight to change the CG-- simple fix--if you're lucky enough to be able to seperate the skins!
T

[djklein21]

That should be a great fix for your Viking. I am not familiar with the Vikings tail, I have repaired a set of wings for Rey, and I was impressed with the internal structure of the wing. The Tail on my Estrella is the same as the one on the V-tail Europhias, it should be the model for a one piece tail structure. You can't even break the tail over your knee.

The week link in the Tools tail is in it's attachment to the fuselage. The tail saddle is composed of mostly unidirectional fiber. This makes it really easy to rip the mounting hardware out of the tail's saddle. Val found this out in a mishap with his car. To my knowledge, the Tools have had this area beefed up and the mounting hardware has evolved. It is an extremely stiff airframe, ready for anything you can throw at it.

[jofo1]

It is an extremely stiff airframe, ready for anything you can throw at it.

Tool wing is super stiff, its aptly named.

[timmig]

It's a great flying plane and yes--I've seen it in the air and held one. The "problem" I referrred to is the wing/ballast design-- and the weak V-tail mounting points-- it's a PIA to take your plane apart to change ballast--or have they changed that as well?
The Viking has weak Vtails- but I'd love to see all those V's become plug-in for transportation purpose's. (Like the Wizard Compact) If you want to fly overseas and travel-- packing IS a consideration.
I'm not a fan of "super skinny" Euro fuses that can't hold ballast well-- it just seems there have been many ships over the years that proved ya didn't have to go "Skinny" to be fast-- first and foremost--the Acacia's come to mind. STRONG fuses that never broke--and the ability to hold HUGE ballast tubes. Simple/fast/strong. KISS method of design. If it works well-- why go away from it? Must be the "sexy sleek look"!
FWIW
Tim

[jofo1]

It takes just a few seconds longer to change ballast in the Tool, not really a PIA. Actually no different than any other wing carrying ballast solution. I agree that the big ballast tube in the fuse is easier, I'm not sure it's better though from a weight distribution standpoint. Having the weight in a fuse tube can dampen pitch response, just as spanwise weight effects roll rate, all design trade-offs in the end. I do like the plug in v-tails over the single piece v-tails for both convenience of transport and strength, I also prefer the canopy instead of the nose cone for same. All that said, the Tool is really engineered well; the details of the wing construction are novel and of high quality, a well executed effort by the design team. Soon we'll have all these great planes flying F3F head-to-head here in the US, that will provide some data to go with all of our opinions.

[target]

There is at least one other ballast set up; the F3B trinity and some others utilize a center panel with a top loading ballast hatch on a 3-piece wing. This is a bit more convenient...
My old APEX has a ballast tube in the center panel; I have to un-plug just one wingtip panel to load the slugs....That's a bit easier than the CERES, on which I'll have to load from each wing root; oh well. Such are the design fads/considerations.
I have 4 F3F planes now, and they all have different setups!

T

[djklein21]

I here you guys on this one. The skinny fuse thing is more than a fad. These planes are looking for every last bit of go fast power. That means skinny fuses, to reduce both frontal and wetted area, as well as sharp tail cones. This is a good thing in the air. My Estrella has a very skinny fuse, but it has square ballast slugs in the fuselage with a brass retainer pin. This is my favorite method to date. But between the tow hook and joiner, there isn't much room for adding ballast tubes without increasing frontal area. We will be seeing more and more planes going to wing ballast loaded from the wing root. It is free space.

[target]

"What's a tow hook?"

Kidding!

T