Capt. Crunch
Sep 23, 2007, 12:53 PM
“UAV FUN-FLY IN S. CALIF.”
( This is continued from an earlier Thread, "UAV Challenge this week in Australia", Hopefully someone will transfer those post to here )
I say Chaps, why not bang together a little Rally for UAVs here in the Colonies?
Some very nice areas in Southern California, and some awesome talent lurking about too.
Don't really need a big prize, but some donations from the Aerospace Industry is very do-able.
I think a basic UAV Fly-In sometime in the early summer after school lets out for starters.
If it's a hit, year 2 could have actual classes and competition similar to the Outback Challenge. Separate divisions for High School, College/University, Hobby, Professional, or based on tasks, etc.
If interested, just post to this Thread and I'll try to keep it going, and I'll volunteer to get a site and date together in January when I'm home. I'm thinking of an area where RVs and camping can be done as well as regular motels. Should have a General Aviation airport near or for the base camp.
Make comments to show interest to see if it's feasible please.
Wayne "Capt. Crunch" Walker
Today, 04:27 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #4
mlbco
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Palo Alto, California, United States
Distance from you: 11759 km
Posts: 338 Wayne,
It sounds good, but you might want to check with the FAA first to see if they'll allow amateur UAV operations without a COA. If they do, it will help set a precedent for more amateur UAV activities. Maybe one day the AMA will even support this!
Steve
Today, 05:01 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #5
Tom Harper
Tom
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Socorro, NM
Posts: 1,609 Crunch,
Great idea, but with gas at $3 a gallon, and time constraints what they are, it may be difficult to have all of the colonials drive to Calif. Then there's the population density problem for UAVs.
Now, when I was a kid, we flew FF on Camp Kearny Mesa. Miles and miles of nothing. Now it's miles and miles of houses.
Some thoughts:
Could we start with a distributed event? Set up a day when participating clubs hold competitions on their fields, but competing with other groups across the US. 'Papers' could be submitted to San Diego to be read by proxy.
Once established, a big event could be held at a different place in the US each year. Like the AMA used to do with the Nationals.
The high population density areas are an obvious choice because that's where the people are. But UAV needs space.
In New Mexico we have space. Socorro County is the size of NJ. It has two incorporated towns. Each with less than 10,000 population. White Sands Missile Range has allowed long distance RC competitions on the base. There's a gillion square miles of BLM land. We have a universtiy with a world class meeting facility, lot's of motel rooms and sufficient fast food joints to feed and army.
Another thought is Las Vegas. Before I retired I held all of my management meetings in Vegas. It cost 1/3 of anyplace else because of the cheap airfare and hotel rates. There are some great sites around Vegas. North around the Valley of Fire. Seems I remember a dry lake bed up there. Or, there's always the huge dry lake the locals use south of Railroad Pass.
Anyway, I think it's a great idea. Let's work on it.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Tom Harper : Today at 05:19 PM.
Today, 05:17 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #6
Tom Harper
Tom
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Socorro, NM
Posts: 1,609 Steve,
Getting permission from White Sands Missile Range might establish and interesting precedent. It's an obvious place to hold a UAV competition.
An alternative would be to hold it on a large ranch. All flights over private property at under 400 feet height above ground.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Tom Harper : Today at 05:41 PM.
Today, 06:00 PM
Capt. Crunch
I nerver joined, I started this!
Executive Member
Over 100,000 views/post
Location: 100km NNW of Bad Bad Bagdaddy
OK, as long as it's under 500 ft AGL and within VFR limits, it would appease the AMA and FAA.
I'm not a fan of red tape and filling out forms so I'll let someone else do that.
I think with those limits we could at least have a start with some modest performance. Later it could be expanded to include the FAA approval version. It would be good to find “Flexible” FAA office to “Float” the first one by and set a precedent. There’s no reason to involve the AMA unless one really wants to. I’ve worked with them before, they’re not easy to work with on new ideas, e.g. if you want to do a rubber band or spin-dizzy contest they’re great. Just getting them to accept Electric Powered competition as a valid discipline has been hard enough!
I was thinking of a rural/desert area with no population to disturb, lots of that within 2-3 hrs drive of San Diego-Los Angeles area.
Tom, your Las Vegas idea sounds totally awasome, I've been to many full size glider events there, lots of good points for using it. Because of the heat, you'd have to have it earlly in May or April or in the Fall, and of course there's the wind! A careful look at the average weather conditions might give a good time slot for having it there. Although that reminds me that the weather in Arizona is really great in Nov. around Thanksgiving time, hmmmmm.
IMHO if you can't afford $3 a gallon gas you can't afford these types of hobbies, and my experience with the MWE over 10 years of running it or participating in it, is that we'd only draw from the 3 or 4 SW states, CA, AZ, NV, CO or so.
That being said, a "Distributed" or "Postal" event as they were called in the really old days, would be in order. I'll set up a meet for S. Calif., maybe someone else in another region? etc.
Next step/year if it warrants it, would be a location like White Sands or Edwards AFB, or Ellis AFB in NV. Again it could be Postal for those out of area so long dist. travel wouldn't be required. Probably just have a local flying club verify the results to keep everyone from “exaggerating” their performance. With a cell phone internet link we could post results as they happen and at 5PM PST we’d have the winners before Monday! Cool, eh? rotating it qround would be agood idea too, let's see what the thoughts are after Year 1.
Now I just realized I have inadvertently Hi-Jacked this thread. I'd like it to continue with the information of the Oz Outback Challenge. Having been to several AIAA Design, Build, Fly events, I'm very curious as to how this come out. I'm hoping for the best, but have seen so many un-prepared entries in such events before that the possibility for mass carnage and incredible humor is beyond comprehension, or should I say, inevitable?
Does anyone know how we can get a moderator to tranfer these posts to a new thread? I've never done anything like that before, and being in GMT+4 I sleep while you guys are up all day posting to these silly forums!
BTW, one of the reasons for a remote area is so that the “Button of Death” doesn’t have to be required like in OZ. AIAA has the same thing, but it’s never really had to be used, but they hold their events on a Military base and at an airport owned by Cessna Corp. with a lot of open space.
I’ll start a new thread and call it “UAV FUN-FLY IN S. CALIF.” So if someone could see about transferring these post to it, I’d be eternally grateful, well for at least an hour or so.
Time for bed for me. I'll Check in tomorrow AM here.
Capt .Crunch Wayne
( This is continued from an earlier Thread, "UAV Challenge this week in Australia", Hopefully someone will transfer those post to here )
I say Chaps, why not bang together a little Rally for UAVs here in the Colonies?
Some very nice areas in Southern California, and some awesome talent lurking about too.
Don't really need a big prize, but some donations from the Aerospace Industry is very do-able.
I think a basic UAV Fly-In sometime in the early summer after school lets out for starters.
If it's a hit, year 2 could have actual classes and competition similar to the Outback Challenge. Separate divisions for High School, College/University, Hobby, Professional, or based on tasks, etc.
If interested, just post to this Thread and I'll try to keep it going, and I'll volunteer to get a site and date together in January when I'm home. I'm thinking of an area where RVs and camping can be done as well as regular motels. Should have a General Aviation airport near or for the base camp.
Make comments to show interest to see if it's feasible please.
Wayne "Capt. Crunch" Walker
Today, 04:27 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #4
mlbco
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Palo Alto, California, United States
Distance from you: 11759 km
Posts: 338 Wayne,
It sounds good, but you might want to check with the FAA first to see if they'll allow amateur UAV operations without a COA. If they do, it will help set a precedent for more amateur UAV activities. Maybe one day the AMA will even support this!
Steve
Today, 05:01 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #5
Tom Harper
Tom
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Socorro, NM
Posts: 1,609 Crunch,
Great idea, but with gas at $3 a gallon, and time constraints what they are, it may be difficult to have all of the colonials drive to Calif. Then there's the population density problem for UAVs.
Now, when I was a kid, we flew FF on Camp Kearny Mesa. Miles and miles of nothing. Now it's miles and miles of houses.
Some thoughts:
Could we start with a distributed event? Set up a day when participating clubs hold competitions on their fields, but competing with other groups across the US. 'Papers' could be submitted to San Diego to be read by proxy.
Once established, a big event could be held at a different place in the US each year. Like the AMA used to do with the Nationals.
The high population density areas are an obvious choice because that's where the people are. But UAV needs space.
In New Mexico we have space. Socorro County is the size of NJ. It has two incorporated towns. Each with less than 10,000 population. White Sands Missile Range has allowed long distance RC competitions on the base. There's a gillion square miles of BLM land. We have a universtiy with a world class meeting facility, lot's of motel rooms and sufficient fast food joints to feed and army.
Another thought is Las Vegas. Before I retired I held all of my management meetings in Vegas. It cost 1/3 of anyplace else because of the cheap airfare and hotel rates. There are some great sites around Vegas. North around the Valley of Fire. Seems I remember a dry lake bed up there. Or, there's always the huge dry lake the locals use south of Railroad Pass.
Anyway, I think it's a great idea. Let's work on it.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Tom Harper : Today at 05:19 PM.
Today, 05:17 PM Report This Post to a Moderator · #6
Tom Harper
Tom
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Socorro, NM
Posts: 1,609 Steve,
Getting permission from White Sands Missile Range might establish and interesting precedent. It's an obvious place to hold a UAV competition.
An alternative would be to hold it on a large ranch. All flights over private property at under 400 feet height above ground.
Tom
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Tom Harper : Today at 05:41 PM.
Today, 06:00 PM
Capt. Crunch
I nerver joined, I started this!
Executive Member
Over 100,000 views/post
Location: 100km NNW of Bad Bad Bagdaddy
OK, as long as it's under 500 ft AGL and within VFR limits, it would appease the AMA and FAA.
I'm not a fan of red tape and filling out forms so I'll let someone else do that.
I think with those limits we could at least have a start with some modest performance. Later it could be expanded to include the FAA approval version. It would be good to find “Flexible” FAA office to “Float” the first one by and set a precedent. There’s no reason to involve the AMA unless one really wants to. I’ve worked with them before, they’re not easy to work with on new ideas, e.g. if you want to do a rubber band or spin-dizzy contest they’re great. Just getting them to accept Electric Powered competition as a valid discipline has been hard enough!
I was thinking of a rural/desert area with no population to disturb, lots of that within 2-3 hrs drive of San Diego-Los Angeles area.
Tom, your Las Vegas idea sounds totally awasome, I've been to many full size glider events there, lots of good points for using it. Because of the heat, you'd have to have it earlly in May or April or in the Fall, and of course there's the wind! A careful look at the average weather conditions might give a good time slot for having it there. Although that reminds me that the weather in Arizona is really great in Nov. around Thanksgiving time, hmmmmm.
IMHO if you can't afford $3 a gallon gas you can't afford these types of hobbies, and my experience with the MWE over 10 years of running it or participating in it, is that we'd only draw from the 3 or 4 SW states, CA, AZ, NV, CO or so.
That being said, a "Distributed" or "Postal" event as they were called in the really old days, would be in order. I'll set up a meet for S. Calif., maybe someone else in another region? etc.
Next step/year if it warrants it, would be a location like White Sands or Edwards AFB, or Ellis AFB in NV. Again it could be Postal for those out of area so long dist. travel wouldn't be required. Probably just have a local flying club verify the results to keep everyone from “exaggerating” their performance. With a cell phone internet link we could post results as they happen and at 5PM PST we’d have the winners before Monday! Cool, eh? rotating it qround would be agood idea too, let's see what the thoughts are after Year 1.
Now I just realized I have inadvertently Hi-Jacked this thread. I'd like it to continue with the information of the Oz Outback Challenge. Having been to several AIAA Design, Build, Fly events, I'm very curious as to how this come out. I'm hoping for the best, but have seen so many un-prepared entries in such events before that the possibility for mass carnage and incredible humor is beyond comprehension, or should I say, inevitable?
Does anyone know how we can get a moderator to tranfer these posts to a new thread? I've never done anything like that before, and being in GMT+4 I sleep while you guys are up all day posting to these silly forums!
BTW, one of the reasons for a remote area is so that the “Button of Death” doesn’t have to be required like in OZ. AIAA has the same thing, but it’s never really had to be used, but they hold their events on a Military base and at an airport owned by Cessna Corp. with a lot of open space.
I’ll start a new thread and call it “UAV FUN-FLY IN S. CALIF.” So if someone could see about transferring these post to it, I’d be eternally grateful, well for at least an hour or so.
Time for bed for me. I'll Check in tomorrow AM here.
Capt .Crunch Wayne