UAV Challenge this week in Australia

[phubner]

The (much anticipated by me) UAV Outback Challenge is this week in Australia - Anyone going to be there to report?


http://www.uavoutbackchallenge.com.au/

Heres the previous RCGroups thread:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=657197


Paul

[AXI Motor Models]

Hopefully someone will take lots of videos - I'd like to see all the UAV's doing their thing.

[Capt. Crunch]

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I say Chaps, why not bang together a little Rally for UAVs here in the Colonies?

Some very nice areas in Southern California, and some awesome talent lurking about too.

Don't really need a big prize, but some donations from the Aerospace Industry is very do-able.

I think a basic UAV Fly-In sometime in the early summer after school lets out for starters.

If it's a hit, year 2 could have actual classes and competition similar to the Outback Challenge. Separate divisions for High School, College/University, Hobby, Professional, or based on tasks, etc.

If interested, just post to this Thread and I'll try to keep it going, and I'll volunteer to get a site and date together in January when I'm home. I'm thinking of an area where RVs and camping can be done as well as regular motels. Should have a General Aviation airport near or for the base camp.

Make comments to show interest to see if it's feasible please.

Wayne "Capt. Crunch" Walker

[mlbco]

Wayne,

It sounds good, but you might want to check with the FAA first to see if they'll allow amateur UAV operations without a COA. If they do, it will help set a precedent for more amateur UAV activities. Maybe one day the AMA will even support this!


Steve

[Tom Harper]

Crunch,

Great idea, but with gas at $3 a gallon, and time constraints what they are, it may be difficult to have all of the colonials drive to Calif. Then there's the population density problem for UAVs.

Now, when I was a kid, we flew FF on Camp Kearny Mesa. Miles and miles of nothing. Now it's miles and miles of houses.

Some thoughts:

Could we start with a distributed event? Set up a day when participating clubs hold competitions on their fields, but competing with other groups across the US. 'Papers' could be submitted to San Diego to be read by proxy.

Once established, a big event could be held at a different place in the US each year. Like the AMA used to do with the Nationals.

The high population density areas are an obvious choice because that's where the people are. But UAV needs space.

In New Mexico we have space. Socorro County is the size of NJ. It has two incorporated towns. Each with less than 10,000 population. White Sands Missile Range has allowed long distance RC competitions on the base. There's a gillion square miles of BLM land. We have a universtiy with a world class meeting facility, lot's of motel rooms and sufficient fast food joints to feed and army.

Another thought is Las Vegas. Before I retired I held all of my management meetings in Vegas. It cost 1/3 of anyplace else because of the cheap airfare and hotel rates. There are some great sites around Vegas. North around the Valley of Fire. Seems I remember a dry lake bed up there. Or, there's always the huge dry lake the locals use south of Railroad Pass.

Anyway, I think it's a great idea. Let's work on it.

Tom

[Tom Harper]

Steve,

Getting permission from White Sands Missile Range might establish and interesting precedent. It's an obvious place to hold a UAV competition.

An alternative would be to hold it on a large ranch. All flights over private property at under 400 feet height above ground.

Tom

[Gary Mortimer]

One of my fellow balloon pilots from the colonies, flew through White Sands Airspace and caused a bit of a stir last week, whoops!!

[Capt. Crunch]

OK, as long as it's under 500 ft AGL and within VFR limits, it would appease the AMA and FAA.
I'm not a fan of red tape and filling out forms so I'll let someone else do that.

I think with those limits we could at least have a start with some modest performance. Later it could be expanded to include the FAA approval version. It would be good to find “Flexible” FAA office to “Float” the first one by and set a precedent. There’s no reason to involve the AMA unless one really wants to. I’ve worked with them before, they’re not easy to work with on new ideas, e.g. if you want to do a rubber band or spin-dizzy contest they’re great. Just getting them to accept Electric Powered competition as a valid discipline has been hard enough!

I was thinking of a rural/desert area with no population to disturb, lots of that within 2-3 hrs drive of San Diego-Los Angeles area.

IMHO if you can't afford $3 a gallon gas you can't afford these types of hobbies, and my experience with the MWE over 10 years of running it or participating in it, is that we'd only draw from the 3 or 4 SW states, CA, AZ, NV, CO or so.

That being said, a "Distributed" or "Postal" event as they were called in the really old days, would be in order. I'll set up a meet for S. Calif., maybe someone else in another region? etc.

Next step/year if it warrants it, would be a location like White Sands or Edwards AFB, or Ellis AFB in NV. Again it could be Postal for those out of area so long dist. travel wouldn't be required. Probably just have a local flying club verify the results to keep everyone from “exaggerating” their performance. With a cell phone internet link we could post results as they happen and at 5PM PST we’d have the winners before Monday! Cool, eh?

Now I just realized I have inadvertently Hi-Jacked this thread. I'd like it to continue with the information of the Oz Outback Challenge. Having been to several AIAA Design, Build, Fly events, I'm very curious as to how this come out. I'm hoping for the best, but have seen so many un-prepared entries in such events before that the possibility for mass carnage and incredible humor is beyond comprehension, or should I say, inevitable?

Does anyone know how we can get a moderator to tranfer these posts to a new thread? I've never done anything like that before, and being in GMT+4 I sleep while you guys are up all day posting to these silly forums!

BTW, one of the reasons for a remote area is so that the “Button of Death” doesn’t have to be required like in OZ. AIAA has the same thing, but it’s never really had to be used, but they hold their events on a Military base and at an airport owned by Cessna Corp. with a lot of open space.

I’ll start a new thread and call it “UAV FUN-FLY IN S. CALIF.” So if someone could see about transferring these post to it, I’d be eternally grateful, well for at least an hour or so.

Capt .Crunch Wayne

[Tom Harper]

Wayne,

I yield the $3 gas point.

Just cut and paste your posts to a new thread. The old ones will take care of themselves. I think 'International UAV Postal Contest' will be more descriptive than Fun-Fly. There is a lot of interest. Others have posted similar ideas.

Nellis - spent 18 happy months there - good duty!.

Tom

[Capt. Crunch]

I like your ideas Tom, 'International UAV Postal Contest' is good, but I don't want to put on a real "Contest". Too much work.

Keep working it, 'International UAV Postal Fly-In' hits me right. It's also time the model community understood that just a Fly-In is a lot of fun, Like the old KRC events, everyone just came with their planes and showed them off, no pressure, no hassles with rules and organizing.

We could have 'Events' like Most interseting Picture, Golf Ball Drop to Sand Pit 2mx2m (wonder wher thta came from?) SFM SAR Practice, Smallest, Lowest Cost, etc.

[zik]

Some photos from the UAV challenge.

http://www.tech-software.net/uav/

(Not taken by me - taken by Andrew Rich from Tech Software)

[Gary Mortimer]

Well worth taking a look at those pics, there are some great looking designs. Looking forward to reading reports.

I love the hi wing trainer made into a low wing, easy access to the a big electronics area!! Very smart.

The foam twin also looks interesting.

Thanks for posting the link.

[Unterhausen]

I like the plane built out of the water bottle. Not a bad idea. Those bottles are as light as possible for their capacity.
http://www.tech-software.net/uav/target23.html

[Gary Mortimer]

Yes that does look great, I get the felling I was born too early.

What would I have given to involved in this sort of stuff when I was college age.

There should be a raft of fantastic ideas coming out of this.

G

[phubner]

Thanks for the pix Zik!

I am impressed with the entries - especially noting that today was th e'ball drop' portion of the contest. I believe the Search for Outback Joe (the dummy in one of the pictures) may be tomorrow (Wed) which might be right now if I didnt mess up my timezones!

Good luck to the entrants!

Paul

[Mick Molloy]

A fellow RCGrouper has won this event .. Djones of Dionisys Design won both the most points and the Documentary Challenge...nobody found outback Joe so the $40,000 will jackpot (I think).

I am sure Dan will put a post out soon with full details.....

[Dan_Jones]

Thanks Mick,
I am currently uploading videos to Youtube right now and should have a blog ready soon. The event was outstanding and everyone was very helpful. The competators were also willing to share ideas and experiences with each of their entries. It was very obvious that everyone was there to have a good time. Stay tuned and I will post a link to the blog once I finish it.

Dan

[Dan_Jones]

Here is the blog that outlines our efforts towards the event:

http://www.dionysusdesign.com/UAV/

I hope that our experience encourages more people to go - even if they aren't sure how their airplane will perform. If anyone has specific questions I will be happy to answer them. Cheers!

[borism]

Aloha and congrats!

You were using Super Dimona 2400 which is exactly the same airframe I'm eyeing to use for my projects. What are your comments on its capabilities (payload, glidepath, maneuverability, rigidness)?

[Mick Molloy]

Aloha and congrats!

You were using Super Dimona 2400 which is exactly the same airframe I'm eyeing to use for my projects. What are your comments on its capabilities (payload, glidepath, maneuverability, rigidness)?

Just make sure you use a carbon spar and not a wooden dowel... (watch Dan's Doco's)

[Capt. Crunch]

Dan & Mick,

Yes be sure to keep telling us about the Super Dimona 2400, seeing your pics and you saying it handles the weight of the gear & water bottle as well as power batteries for this type of flight, I'm very interested.

What's this about a Carbon spar? Dan's docos don't show much on the SD 2400 in the way of mods and layout. Do you mean they come with a wood dowel spar that must be replaced with a carbor rod? the kit is on sale right now for $150 in US, very good price for the size & type of plane.

Thanks in advance,

Wayne

[Dan_Jones]

The documentary shows video of a wood dowel used in place of the carbon spar. Always use carbon!

The SD 2400 was a good airframe. I had problems balancing it because I moved the servos to the tail and added a tail wheel. My CG was less than an inch back from the leading edge at the root of the wing. If it was any farther back, it resulted in a crash when I flew slow. As long as my airspeed was up, I was fine. Overall it's a great airframe to stuff electronics in. I ended up coating the inside with fiberglass because of the crashing, but it made it quite solid.

It could handle the 1.5 pound water bottle like it wasn't there. However, I overloaded it by about 3 or 4 pounds total. It was doggy at that weight. The wings didn't feel like they would handle any acrobatics with so much on them already.

[Capt. Crunch]

Thanks Dan,
I didn't see that video cause the bandwidth is poor here, but I understand. Do you remember how much it weighed when you flew it?

At 3-4 lbs overload it sure will handle funny! How long a flight did you get with it and what power system? the stock one recomended? Power batteries capacity?

There's not too much info on the Maxstream site, it looks like sheeted wings, right?
The price looks good for what it is, I'm thinking of getting one for my SAR plane.

Thanks for the info,

Wayne

[Dan_Jones]

If you are thinking of attempting the SAR mission at the Outback Challenge, you will need a different airframe. It cruises at about 50 feet per second, maybe 60 at that weight. In order to have enough time to zig-zag around searching for outback joe, you need to be traveling in excess of about 100 feet per second. Since that kind of speed is involved, I am not convinced that electric motors will be enough due to the weight of the batteries. I used 2 3-cell 5000mah packs wired in series on a DualSky 900w motor and I estimated 20 to 30 minute run times. The motor would draw anywhere from 7 to 25 amps depending on the conditions. I would have been lucky to make it to the far side of the course and back. If you do use Petrol, don't try to travel with the gas tank even if it is empty. Airlines don't want any part of tanks that were used for holding fuel.

If you are thinking of a different SAR mission, it may be a good airplane. It seemed to handle the wind just fine as long as you take off and land into the wind. A cross-breeze caused one of my takeoff crashes. Most of the time I landed it with the motor off but my previous crashes made me careful about airspeed. So all my landings now are done as fast as possible (~35fps). If you are going to overload it like I did with electronics, I do recommend coating the inside of it with fiberglass. And be liberal with it. The stock airframe is well designed for stock purposes, but having the extra support is necessary with the added weight. I also highly recommend converting it to a tail dragger as opposed to a tricycle. I used bigger wheels to make room for the water bottle, but the stock ones should work just fine. I also moved the motor to the outside to help with EMI, cooling, and CG balance. It worked quite well out there. I cut out some EPP foam to put in the nose to reduce the LiPo damage during a crash. The autopilot was strapped to a balsa support rack that I built on the stock servo tray. That worked quite well.

[zik]

Thanks for the write-up Dan - really interesting. I wish I'd been able to go! Maybe next year.

[Capt. Crunch]

Dan,

Thanks a million for the great write-up, very well done. No, I'm not thinking of the Outback Challenge, a bit too much for a Hobbyist! Just a general purpose SAR type of a/c. some light photo work, etc.

It looks like a great platform for me as I like gliders and a Motor Glider is right up my alley.

I agree a very efficient gas powered plane would be needed for the very long range and endurance needed for the type of SAR Outback is looking for. I was surprised the OZ Company Aerosonde didn't compete, I'd think they would be a shoo in, maybe not, but a very strong performer in long flights anyway.

Thanks again, and best of luck with your company,

Wayne Walker

[Mick Molloy]

The comp was not open to full developed commercial available UAV's (or UAS as it is now days)

[borism]

which (electric) airframe with wingspan ~2m could do 100 fps (100 kph)?

[Mick Molloy]

100fps = 109kph = 68mph

[phubner]

Dan,

Nice job on the project and a great writeup. I've been watching from afar and would've loved to enter if I was even close on my design (I barely have my custom autopilot in working condition now!)

Did the rules state that you had to have a full base station? I thought to offload most everything to the UAV and be able to send the Abort Code if needed. I think I'm too scared to install an "Abort unless told not to" feature!

Congrats all around for your team,

Paul

[Dan_Jones]

My 'base station' was very simplistic. I only sent 3 byte packets when I needed to. The firmware in the autopilot took care of the rest. The only thing is that it must continuously communicate with the airplane. I set mine to send the 'OK' message once a second. If the safety system in the airplane doesn't get a message in 5 seconds, it needs to abort. This was the simplest way I could think of to make the autopilot aware of a power loss on the ground station. Using a laptop computer, I could send other messages that control the camera and waypoints.

Initial range tests of the Maxstream radio modems were confusing. If one of the whip antennas was pointing away from the ground station, I lost communication at 100 meters. I opted for tuned antennas from MaxStream for the competition and had some help on the ground pointing a Yagi antenna towards the airplane at all times. In the future, I will be using a much different antenna on the airplane that does not require any specific orientation. I haven't made one yet, otherwise I would have told you what it looks like. It's still in the research phase. If anyone knows of such a thing that is commercially available, please let me know. :)

BTW, the safety system is flexible. I know most of you aren't ready to put your bird into a flat spin if there is a problem, but given the design stated by the rules, the failsafe for a non-used channel could be set up to enable an FMA co-pilot that is installed between the safety system and the servos. This should allow the airplane to glide down to safety with the motor off and the rudder deflected to maintain a circular glide path. During normal operation, the co-pilot should not have any authority. I will be using this method as a backup for my autopilot for now on. After we make another run of safety boards, they will be for sale on our website.

[Dan_Jones]

Here are pictures of our safety system. The cable on the box is a USB plug. It uses power from the USB bus. The custom circuit board goes in the airplane and it mounts to the back of a MaxStream OEM module. XStream and XCite modules will both work. For cost reduction, XCite can be used in the air since it doesn't transmit anything in our design. XStream only transmits from the ground. XCite is about $60 and XStream is $150.

[zik]

Hi Dan,

You asked about antennas - I'm looking into using turnstile antennas as they have an even radiation pattern. I haven't seen one for 900MHz but here are some pictures of 2.4GHz ones:

http://groups.msn.com/RCCAM/antennaideas.msnw

Cheers,
Zik

[lowdive]

so it's nearing the deadline for this years outback challenge. is Dionysus Design going to make another showing?

[Dan_Jones]

I would really like to go back! However, my son was born last month and I am in the process of buying a house. Busy! busy! I have found some spare minutes to spend some money to upgrade some equipment though. We'll see what happens. Dionysus Design may transition more to a supplier role as opposed to a competator. It would be very nice to see our products in the winning UAV.

[AUSUAV]

G'day Dan,
I think we need to have a chat then :)

Congrats on the new addition to your family and the purchase of a family home.

I'm in Aus and am looking for the parts to put together to make a UAV to win the challenge. :)
I've got 15 years RC experience and next to zero when it comes to building autonomus electric boxes of mystery to control them (from scratch:) ,but I do have experience when it comes to building and flying FPV aircraft.

I read your website, with interest, about last years attempt and coincedentally noticed that we chose the same airframes to use :) I spotted the Super Dimona about two years ago and thought it'd be great as a simple camera carrying rig.

So if you want to be a supplier and still have involvement I've got a good team together that is looking for parts.

Cheers
Aaron

[ios]

Does anyone have any information about when entry applications for the 2008 event will be open, and closed?

I have visited the UAV Outback Challenge (http://www.uavoutbackchallenge.com.au) website, but it hasn't been updated at all since last year.

I'd really like to go to this years event, be it as a competitor or spectator depending on how much I can get done before the event.

[Mick Molloy]

Does anyone have any information about when entry applications for the 2008 event will be open, and closed?

I have visited the UAV Outback Challenge (http://www.uavoutbackchallenge.com.au) website, but it hasn't been updated at all since last year.

I'd really like to go to this years event, be it as a competitor or spectator depending on how much I can get done before the event.

The UAV Challenge – Outback Rescue will take place in the regional Queensland town of Kingaroy from 23-25 September 2008. Developed to promote the civil applications of UAVs, the Challenge is the only event of its kind in Australia and has proven a flying success with students and professional enthusiasts alike. Application forms will be available from 7 April 2008 – don’t miss out!

www.uavoutbackchallenge.com.au

ios, I hope this answers your question.. :)