Piro Flips!

[deity]

I have been practicing these on the Sim, I can get into the inverted portion perfectly, but have trouble transitioning from inverted to upright without having to bail out. Any tips?

[hurleybt]

Sounds like you're having a similar problem as I am... I'm having trouble tracking the tail and matching my right stick input to it. I can get it inverted pretty well... and occasionally do the complete piro flip... but it's usually pretty ugly. Maybe instead of trying to track it, I should just get a good feel for the timing, and predict where I will have to be... but the muscle memory, or whatever the hell it takes to do this, is hard to get...

I've read that you should basically be able to control the heli well while constantly doing piros (upright), before doing piro flips... like do small circuits and figure-8's while piro'ing... but I've found that nearly impossible. I'd also like some tips on this.

[arclite5]

Piro-stuff:

Focus on either the tail or the nose (I prefer the tail) and follow that point only. Just control the tail's angle. Keep it basic when you're learning and only enter forward elevator once every rotation and you'll be able to do "piro circuits" easily. Keep that in mind and try simming it for a while and you'll see what I mean.

Once you get really good at this, you can increase the "resolution" of the piro-maneuver and start entering control inputs twice every rotation, etc.. Instead of waiting until your tail rotates into the right position to enter control, you'll be able to enter the right control at any point around the circle (it's just much harder and requires mastery of oreintation)..

A little more defined.. Basically what you do is start rotating the helicopter.. It will start to drift in one direction. Now, when the tail is pointed in that direction which it is drifting, if you push forward on the elevator stick, it will counter that drift. That's just how it works.. Now keep playing around with this property and you'll soon find that you can induce a drift in a certain direction, and then start countering it at a 45 degree offset angle from what you would do to neutralize the drift/movement, and that will make the helicopter travel in a circular motion. In short, you'll be doing piro-forward-flight-circles or if you're going really fast you'll be doing piro-funnels.

Only other tip is keep trying them on the sim until it "clicks" and you get it..

Now on to piro-flips.. Yeah you really want to practice that other stuff first because it'll get you really in tune with the nature of how you control a spinning helicopter. Or you could just sit down for months being stubborn and trying to do piroflips before you really understand what's happening like I did =]

-Kyle

[hurleybt]

Or you could just sit down for months being stubborn and trying to do piroflips before you really understand what's happening like I did =]

-Kyle

Hehe... I've been doing just that :)

Thanks for the tips kyle... I'm definitely gonna practice some prio control for a few hours this week.

Hell, I was trying piroflips before I could fly backwards... and I could fly inverted, backwards circuits before I could do them right-side-up... yay for learning crap out of order...

[Blackrat]

hahaha so im not the only one then :D

what ive been recommended to do is set the trim on the tail off a bit so you can get a constant piro, then start flying around doing circles then move onto figure of eights, once thats cracked do it upside down. THEN think about piro flips .. well its what im doing atm :D

[Gino CP]

Start with fundamentals. Learn fly piro circuits. This teaches you to control cyclic in any orientation. Then learn to roll/tumble in any orientation and in any direction. In short, learn how to flip any way you want in any orientation. Learn to do this going inverted and then going upright. Needless to say, you need to master inverted piro circuits and inverted flipping in any direction and orientation too.

Why go through all the trouble? This is because you want a constant rotor disc flipping in one direction while the tail is piroing. So you may start the flip with a right roll tail in, then at some point tumbling nose down. As the heli rotates clockwise, it becomes a roll left. And so on.

You can't rush these moves. It comes in stages.

[GWRIGHT]

This is a very old article from '96,.. but it details a basic procedure for learning and progressing,..that can be applied to any specific maneuver. Yes, even back then, some of us were doing pirouetting aerobatics. A few of us even learned them with mechanical gyro's,..no governer, and 61 glow engines <G>. Strange how I'm having to re-learn everything since starting to fly helis again, but I'm still using the methods I wrote about in this article,.. which are expansions of whats said above. Interesting this topic should come up, as I just started working on the pirouetting stuff again after trying a little bit at the jamboree and realizing I couldn't do it anymore :eek:
Another lesson from this,..don't stay away from helis for several years and excpect to jump right back into them :(

http://www.w3mh.co.uk/articles/download/gw_1296.pdf

[tkn0spdr]

GWRIGHT, do you ever go to the park on Florida Ave. to fly? I live in Melbourne too. I go to the park and watch, and keep saving my pennies so I can afford to get an outdoor heli. I'm usually there on Sunday mornings.

Thanks,
David

[GWRIGHT]

I went there one time, a few months ago. Someone has one of my 63" e3D's with an el-cheapo budget outrunner, and I wanted to see how the motor worked for that plane, so I made the trip out there once. Where I'm sitting right now at work is only a few blocks away,..maybe a mile.

[p4ddy]

I only 3d on phoenix at the minute & i can (kaoss) but i find timing the collective hard as it will rise or shoot left or right & then i can suddenly keep it steady. Oh & i'm only now starting inverted circuits so i'm learning backwards (well i am half irish) :p

[tkn0spdr]

GWRIGHT, you must work at FIT.
I'm just getting into heli's so I'm interested in meeting as many people as I can that are also into the hobby. Maybe we can meet up sometime.

Thanks,
David

[GWRIGHT]

no,.. actually I'm the CIO at MIMA, the large group medical practice.

[tkn0spdr]

no,.. actually I'm the CIO at MIMA, the large group medical practice.Cool, do they use Macs at MIMA at all? I'm a Mac tech that's currently looking for a better job.

Thanks,
David

[GWRIGHT]

No Mac's. We have to have equipment that will function with all the applications that we need <G>. Actually, a lot is dictated by some of the application vendors (we currently support slightly over 50 applications, a couple of which have multi-terrabyte databases).

roughly 1200 workstations, well over 100 servers currently, a few linux, one AIX, the rest wintel. Oh,.. and about 20 terrabytes of storage on the SAN's. Not a huge infrastructure, but larger than most any other non-hospital medical provider group

[tkn0spdr]

I'll probably be at that park on Sunday morning. You should swing on by, people start showing up around 6:45 but I don't usually get there till around 7:30.

If you do make it I'll be the one either watching with no flyers or with my little Blade CX, if it's not too embarrassed to come with me.

Thanks,
David