Need help with possible ship artifacts aquistion.

[Hoghappy]

These are artifacts from the War of 1812 American Privateer Prince de Neufchatel, the schooner in my avitar. I am interested but don’t want to get burned and am out of my comfort zone with this. I’m looking for your advice here if you have any. Have any of you experience with these sorts of dealings? What should I ask this gentleman? What should I look for? The gentleman is an (Antiquarian Bookseller) asking if I would be interested the following.


“Robert: What I have is the Marriage Licence of Capt John Ordronaux , a bill of laden that was turned over to French of the material seized by the Prince, and a Consulate letter telling the Prince what to do with British prisoners of war. Three very nice, and important documents of a very historical period. Ed “


Capt. Slick

[Hoghappy]

I asked the condition, if they had been appraised and the asking price. Here was the response:

"I am a rare book dealer, and have been one for 44 years. I do appraisals. The documents are in excellent condition. They are not expensive in my world, but then they are not inexpensive. Since they are part of American history they are in demand. I have not decided a price as of yet. Rarely are documents on the Price Neufchatel ever offered, since few actually exist. Ed"

Still no price...me thinks I won't like it when I see it. :rolleyes:

Capt. Slick

[mfr02]

I would have expected it to be called a "Bill of Lading", or possibly loading, so I am caused to think of those letters from John in Nigeria.
I, too would be out of my comfort zone, enough to let it pass.
Does this antiquarian bookseller have anything to allow you to check him out? Like appearances in a business directory or a web appearance? A real address rather than a PO Box number?
I do tend to be sceptical whem people ask me to part company with my money....:-)

[Hoghappy]

Does this antiquarian bookseller have anything to allow you to check him out? Like appearances in a business directory or a web appearance? A real address rather than a PO Box number?
I do tend to be sceptical whem people ask me to part company with my money....:-)

He gave me his business address and phone number in Baltimore.

Capt. Slick

[Jerome Morris]

I would want to inspect the paper first..In my hands. I would then determine if they were what I wanted or not. If he's a reputable dealer then he should not have a problem with this. He should be up front and professional, and be more than happy to send an invoice along with the documents. If you like it you call him and then send a check. If you don't you send it back in the original packing, insured and signature required, at you cost.

That's how you by the rare stuff!

[RhumbLine]

Hoghoppy, The sellers response is interesting. He first needed to qualify himself, then describe the condition of the documents very briefly, qualify himself again, wet your appetite for the price by saying not that high, but not cheap, and then teased you by saying that items like these are in high demand and not rarely offered, Hmmm... He may very well be legit, but I've always been leary of people that feel the need to tell me their qualifications first, then not answer the question I ask to my satisfaction. If he has been dealing antiquities for that long, I'm sure he knows what a certificate of authenticity and value is, and shouldn't be ashamed to share it. If it has never been authenticated he shouldn't have a problem with an apraiser looking it over. If they are important enough for you to ask us, I would ask another professionals opinion. It may cost a few bucks, but you would know up front. You might even do a little search about him on your own, ask some others in the industry, GOOGLE him/business. Surely somone with that many years in that industry has to have some history of some kind. I realize that rare documents can be very valuable, but in most cases they are only worth what a person is willing to pay. There are only a couple of copies of the original Constitution, I'm sure their value is astronomical. But you can buy a copy on parchmnet in the gift shop in Washington for about $25 :D

Food for thoguht; If you go buy a diamond ring, you get a certificate of it's quality, clarity, value, and origin. It's a keepsake that can be handed down for generations to come...

Just my 2 sense ;)

Good Luck with your venture
Scott

[Aerominded]

Yeah, I would expect something like this to have a well documented, verifyable 'provenance'...

It might be neat to own old documents but I'm not sure I would want the responsibility for them- especially if they are significant!

[SD rc boater]

If these American documents are as rare, and an important part of American history as he says they are, then why aren't they going to the Smithstonian instead of being sold? :confused:

[rlboats2003]

The Prince was a rather a well known ship - in fact in the book the American Sailing Ships the knowledge is the owners of the ships is discussed. I beleive a little looking on at the requirements of a obtaining a Letter of Marque will identify the respectable thing that need to be done for seizure of ships at sea. Look at the ship - they took large crews for prize crews for when they took ships, Which leads me to beleive that if the Prince took prisoners - the were worthy of ransom and would have been named. Ransom or trades was a common practice.

If the ship taken was found not worthy of a prize crew the Priviteer Skipper usually had a few choices, If no passangers or cargo of goods that could be sold eaisly - inpound what could be found of worth and put the crew in the boats with a heading to the nearest land and burn the ship. If the ship was a passanger carrier impound that which could be found of worth, toss any cannon the ship carried over board and let it go. After all they were not Pirates.

So if he reads you the lists they should be sellable items in a French port. Also ask about the dates on the documents - again we can identify the date when the Prince was seized by the British and when the "owners" pationed for the Letter. The bill of lading would be dated as when items were added by the prize taken and a letter from the consulant would have been dated. This was a legal business because the Captian had the responsibility to give a full accounting of what was made from the Prizes taken to the owners.

Just reading the passage on the "owners" will be worth the research - "Beney" should give you a good laugh when you realize what is going on now was going on then.

Any way let the buyer beware - just arm yourself with some knowledge.

Rich

[WAXER128]

Capt Slick-
Where abouts in Baltimore?
Waxer