Looking for informayion on wing design

[H.Robinson]

Hi all

Can someone please point me toward information on various wing configurations like gull wing, etc.

I'm wanting to reconfigure three styro gliders to function like a group of birds flying in formation and need to know the wing shapes which will give the desired slow, high lift flight that I'm looking for. My plan is to have the outboard wing on two of them with the aileron on the far right and far left, then have the tail surfaves function on the rear "bird' for control.

The areas I need help on include knowing the best wing type and as in the case of gull wing or something similar, the angles each part of the wing are in relation to each other.

Like most projects this one will probably take awhile to finish up, but it should be pretty interesting if I can accomplish it.

Any help or suggestions will sure be appreciated.

Thanks

HR

[Ollie]

Study Dr. Mark Drela's designs for Allegro-lite, Apogee and Bubble Dancer. See:
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/apogeehlg/markdrela_apogeehlg.htm
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/allegrolite2m/markdrela_allegrolite2m.htm
http://www.charlesriverrc.org/articles/bubbledancer/markdrela-bubbledancer-3m.htm
There are better than you can with your ideas.

Forget about birds for your purpose. The birds are about flesh and bones and are limited weaker compared models to wood and carbon.

[JetPlaneFlyer]

If you want slow flight the most important thing is to have as low a wing loading as possible, so plenty of wing area and low weight.

[ciurpita]

i'm curious:

assuming the same wing area, higher aspect ratio wings are heavier because they are longer and require a stronger spar. so building light suggest a low aspect ratio wing?

also, isn't induced drag more of a problem at low airspeeds requiring higher angles of attack. so does building for low airspeed suggest larger wing areas?

[ah.clem]

It sounds like an interesting idea - I've seen a couple versions of RC bird groupings on line, I recall a very nice version by a Japanese fellow a few years ago. Some Googling would probably get you more info.

In the versions I recall reading about, a high lift foil was tacked onto the wing root which was at a 30 - 45 degree angle or so to the body (I'm going from memory, here). The wing root was not designed to lift (it was cosmetic, to look like a bird wing) and the foil was pretty heavily modified to look like a wing. Obviously, these weren't the most efficient surfaces, but it was more about the aesthetic, not the performance - and they did fly.

You might just do some experimenting - if it will glide decently, it will most likely fly OK. You're creating art that flies, not trying to win F3b. I think even Drela would say the rules are relaxed for this one.

Good luck, post pics.

[BMatthews]

The wings from the styro gliders are crudely shaped. For what they do they are fine but if you're looking to go for something light and airy then frankly I wouldn't bother even using them as raw material. You'll need to cut and sand so much of them that you may as well start with just raw sheet foam right off the bat. Carving foam is not an easy thing but if you can find a technique that doesn't cause it to pull out chunks then good on ya. I've used a little wire T burr in a Dremel for small jobs. But it's MESSY TO DA MAX! ! Perhaps set up a hot wire and cut the wings out and carve teh fuselage bodies only. Or find a local wing cutter and have them hot wire some blanks to your specs.

But regardless of airfoil or other issues if you want this to fly in a slow and graceful way then I'll echo JPF's warning to keep it light. You pretty much can't make it too light for something like this but it will sure be easy to make it come out too heavy.

[macboffin]

i'm curious:

assuming the same wing area, higher aspect ratio wings are heavier because they are longer and require a stronger spar. so building light suggest a low aspect ratio wing?

also, isn't induced drag more of a problem at low airspeeds requiring higher angles of attack. so does building for low airspeed suggest larger wing areas?
The optimum aspect ratio and , possibly, taper ratio, is dependant on many factors, such as size,(therefore Reynolds number), target flying speed, and power/weight ratio ; and of course proposed materials. Basically slow flight requires low wing loadings, if this results in low aspect ratio, hang a bit more power on! Gull wings no problem, but assuming a basically straight wing, ie no sweep, tips should be higher than roots, giving overall dihedral angle. If three in formation, two in front one behind, the front pair should have outer tips slightly higher than roots, this giving a composite dihedral angle for roll stability