Simplest low-cost 3-axis autopilot(s)

[UAVeez]

Hello everyone,

I've read many threads here pertaining to uav autopilots, but I'd really like to see someone suggest the easiest, 3-axis, low-cost autopilot for the novice uav pilot. Please don't complicate the subject with a bunch of technical questions, which a novice just won’t understand. Just suggest an autopilot, which is inexpensive, easy to build, and all the components needed to complete it. Also, software which is very user friendly where you can go to google maps, look up gps coordinates on a map and simply punch the waypoints. The user could go to google maps and locate his takeoff field, get the gps coordinates for it and other waypoints, and enter them into the software. Altitude entries should be possible for each waypoint as well as airspeed.

You guys are very smart and technically minded but in this case, please keep it simple. There are some simple autopilots out there, which don't require too much technical knowledge, so please help the novice pilots get into this great hobby.

Thanks

[fumiyasu]

Actually I am looking for the same sort of thing too... something tht a novice like me can use without the need for much programming or tweaking... it's not like i don't want to learn about this stuff but it's just so much that I don't know where to start...

[Connexxion]

Get yourself an autopilot of U-NAV.

Off-the-shelf device with straight forward connections.

A little tweaking is mandatory since every platform has its own flight behaviour.

Good luck.

[fumiyasu]

sorry abt hijacking the thread a bit.. :p

but as a newbie, if I want video feed, would I be better off with a separate camera+transmitter setup instead of choosing a platform that integrates that in the flight computer rig and transfer the video off the comps datalink?

[UAVeez]

sorry abt hijacking the thread a bit.. :p

but as a newbie, if I want video feed, would I be better off with a separate camera+transmitter setup instead of choosing a platform that integrates that in the flight computer rig and transfer the video off the comps datalink?

Yeah, not cool to hijack but since there are noobs out there that may benefit from your question.. I won't sweat it.

[UAVeez]

Actually I am looking for the same sort of thing too... something tht a novice like me can use without the need for much programming or tweaking... it's not like i don't want to learn about this stuff but it's just so much that I don't know where to start...

I hear you fumiyasu, but what's more important are all those experienced members out there hearing you. It would be nice if they would go as far as to be mentors to us new in the hobby. There was a suggestion for a unav autopilot but I'd like to hear someone actually go step by step from purchase to programmed flying. This is really what we need, not just where to buy the stuff but what to do once we open the box. :confused:

[clolson]

I hear you fumiyasu, but what's more important are all those experienced members out there hearing you. It would be nice if they would go as far as to be mentors to us new in the hobby. There was a suggestion for a unav autopilot but I'd like to hear someone actually go step by step from purchase to programmed flying. This is really what we need, not just where to buy the stuff but what to do once we open the box. :confused:

I'm no expert, but I get the impression there are a number of groups trying to do just that ... diydrones, paparazzi (sp?), and if you go through the past postings in this forum you'll find tons of information about other projects and equipment.

You seem to be asking for someone to hold your hand and walk you through the entire process from start to finish, but there are a thousand different approaches that people here have taken from extremely simplistic to extremely complicated and expensive. I'm certain that anyone who's built and successfully flown even a simple uav has put in countless hard fought hours to make it work.

Putting together a working uav can be very complicated ... I'm almost embarrased to admit how long I've been working on this stuff ... I'm going 2 years with my university xbow mnav effort. I have only one crash under my belt, but that was pre-MNAV and due to a small amount of over optimism as to how badly we could fail a ground range check and still be ok to fly. I don't think we were the first to get bit by that problem, and I'm sure we weren't the last... :-) @#$@$# voltage regulators!

But just this morning I performed my first flight with combined altitude hold and waypoint following ... I still had manual control over throttle and rudder (autopilot controlled elevator and ailerons), but I could stay hands off as long as I liked. That's a huge milestone for myself personally, but I'm way behind a lot of the folks here ... some of the guys here have been flying autonomously for many years.

Just about every one you ask here is going to have a different opinion about which airframe to use, which power plant to use, glow versus gas versus electric, which RC system to use ... and that's just the basic airframe. When you start getting into avionics, sensors, flight computers, wireless communication, cameras, etc. .... ask 10 people here and you'll probably get 40 different answers.

If you really want to learn about this stuff, you might need to flounder for a bit, do some research, try some different ideas ... if you are like most people, you'll probably accumulate some bits of expensive equipment that it turns out you can't use or didn't work very well or you fried on the work bench ... it's a lot of work, often a lot of pain, requires a lot of patience, but it is very rewarding when you do have some successes.

I don't know ... if you think you want to get into uav's, I'd suggest shooting yourself in the foot about 15-30 times, then go out and manually fly an R/C airplane for a while, then crash it. Then sit around and watch some grass grow ... then build a little bonfire and burn all your life savings. That will give you about the same amount of cost versus pain versus pleasure and be a lot less hassle and time consuming ... then if you are smart, you can get on with your life while you still have a few good years left. It's too late for me, but you can still save yourself. :-)

Curt.

[UAVeez]

I'm no expert, but I get the impression there are a number of groups trying to do just that ... diydrones, paparazzi (sp?), and if you go through the past postings in this forum you'll find tons of information about other projects and equipment.

You seem to be asking for someone to hold your hand and walk you through the entire process from start to finish, but there are a thousand different approaches that people here have taken from extremely simplistic to extremely complicated and expensive. I'm certain that anyone who's built and successfully flown even a simple uav has put in countless hard fought hours to make it work.

Putting together a working uav can be very complicated ... I'm almost embarrased to admit how long I've been working on this stuff ... I'm going 2 years with my university xbow mnav effort. I have only one crash under my belt, but that was pre-MNAV and due to a small amount of over optimism as to how badly we could fail a ground range check and still be ok to fly. I don't think we were the first to get bit by that problem, and I'm sure we weren't the last... :-) @#$@$# voltage regulators!

But just this morning I performed my first flight with combined altitude hold and waypoint following ... I still had manual control over throttle and rudder (autopilot controlled elevator and ailerons), but I could stay hands off as long as I liked. That's a huge milestone for myself personally, but I'm way behind a lot of the folks here ... some of the guys here have been flying autonomously for many years.

Just about every one you ask here is going to have a different opinion about which airframe to use, which power plant to use, glow versus gas versus electric, which RC system to use ... and that's just the basic airframe. When you start getting into avionics, sensors, flight computers, wireless communication, cameras, etc. .... ask 10 people here and you'll probably get 40 different answers.

If you really want to learn about this stuff, you might need to flounder for a bit, do some research, try some different ideas ... if you are like most people, you'll probably accumulate some bits of expensive equipment that it turns out you can't use or didn't work very well or you fried on the work bench ... it's a lot of work, often a lot of pain, requires a lot of patience, but it is very rewarding when you do have some successes.

I don't know ... if you think you want to get into uav's, I'd suggest shooting yourself in the foot about 15-30 times, then go out and manually fly an R/C airplane for a while, then crash it. Then sit around and watch some grass grow ... then build a little bonfire and burn all your life savings. That will give you about the same amount of cost versus pain versus pleasure and be a lot less hassle and time consuming ... then if you are smart, you can get on with your life while you still have a few good years left. It's too late for me, but you can still save yourself. :-)

Curt.

We are looking for those willing to help, mentor, and guide. We are looking for members willing to take their personal experiences (similar to yours) and show us what NOT to do. Please take this opportunity to help, not discourage. I appreciate your unique and personal opinion on the matter, but we're only looking for individuals willing to post how they were able to get their particular autopilot to work...whatever that autopilot/airframe is. Based on the posts, new members could then pick & choose which combination of autopilot/airframe best suites their needs and requirements, and they'll have a proven roadmap to easily complete their project.

Can autopilots be complicated? Yes they can and we know that, which is why the thread title is "simplest 3-axis autopilot(s)". That's what we're looking for. Of course a "complicated" autopilot would be harder to understand then a simple one, which is why the title of the thread isn't "most complicated 3-axis autopilot(s).

Yes we are looking for someone to hold our hand...wouldn't that have helped you over the last two years?

This thread is intended to motivate novice members, so the "doom & gloom" comments are not helping. Please only post comments that are encouraging and positive. These new members need direction, not a closed door.

[fumiyasu]

I hear you fumiyasu, but what's more important are all those experienced members out there hearing you. It would be nice if they would go as far as to be mentors to us new in the hobby. There was a suggestion for a unav autopilot but I'd like to hear someone actually go step by step from purchase to programmed flying. This is really what we need, not just where to buy the stuff but what to do once we open the box. :confused:

Yea, I guess we are at the same position here...

I'm no expert, but I get the impression there are a number of groups trying to do just that ... diydrones, paparazzi (sp?), and if you go through the past postings in this forum you'll find tons of information about other projects and equipment.
Curt.

I looked at DIY drone before, which seems to be quite good for beginners. It uses lego or unav stuff, and I was under the impression that Unav connects directly to the servos and comes with instructions on how to use the packaged software to program it.. So I guess tht's probably the easiest way, but they are putting the video/photo camera as a separate thing..

On the other hand, Paparazzi seems to be much more expandable and does enable the video to be streamed down the main data link. It also has detailed instructions on how to construct the whole thing. so building so be ok i guess, but it doesn't say anything about programing...

so My main question would be which one would you suggest for a noob, would the paparazzi require too much programing to setup? what process do i need to go through, programming-wise, to get the plane up and flying after I've made all the hardware? I think the programming part is probably the most confusing part for a newbie... how much work do we actually need to put into these open source autopilot programs until they work?

thanks

[UAVeez]

Yea, I guess we are at the same position here...



I looked at DIY drone before, which seems to be quite good for beginners. It uses lego or unav stuff, and I was under the impression that Unav connects directly to the servos and comes with instructions on how to use the packaged software to program it.. So I guess tht's probably the easiest way, but they are putting the video/photo camera as a separate thing..

On the other hand, Paparazzi seems to be much more expandable and does enable the video to be streamed down the main data link. It also has detailed instructions on how to construct the whole thing. so building so be ok i guess, but it doesn't say anything about programing...

so My main question would be which one would you suggest for a noob, would the paparazzi require too much programing to setup? what process do i need to go through, programming-wise, to get the plane up and flying after I've made all the hardware? I think the programming part is probably the most confusing part for a newbie... how much work do we actually need to put into these open source autopilot programs until they work?

thanks
Good points made there fumiyasu. I think most noobs have no problem assembling the components together and installing them into a plane, but it's another thing trying to figure out the programming portion if you're not too familiar with programming software. I'm not so proud where I can't admit when I need help. I'm wondering if there is programming software out there that is noob friendly where you basically input the flying variables (speed, waypoints, alt, and one or two others) into a windows type format. Software where it has boxes for you to fill in the appropriate commands, and not where you need to enter code.

[fumiyasu]

Good points made there fumiyasu. I think most noobs have no problem assembling the components together and installing them into a plane, but it's another thing trying to figure out the programming portion if you're not too familiar with programming software. I'm not so proud where I can't admit when I need help. I'm wondering if there is programming software out there that is noob friendly where you basically input the flying variables (speed, waypoints, alt, and one or two others) into a windows type format. Software where it has boxes for you to fill in the appropriate commands, and not where you need to enter code.

I think the Unav does tht, comes with ready made software tht you just enter waypoints and it also has monitoring software to monitor the plane (providing the radio modem was installed to stream down telemetry). The only downfall is tht it's slightly expensive for me and tht I think it doesn't take updates of the waypoint once in the air...
Paparazzi on the other hand is less clear...it doesn't really say on the site wht to do once the hardware is done...but it does include ground station softwares and stuff for the flight computer...so it might be possible tht it's user-friendly enough for us... I was hoping someone more experienced could explain how complete is the paparazzi package... I've downloaded the ground station software (live CD) so I am going to take a look later... perhaps it's got more instructions on the thing... It's probably reasonable to assume tht ground software talks to the flight computer without any tweaks... but I think it needs data and other stuff to be inputed into the ground software to get it working... does anyone know wht we need?

[clolson]

Xbow makes the MNAV and has a complete open-source development suite for their unit, including
working flight computer code that interfaces with a working ground station. You can click to build routes graphically, upload them to the flying uav, and it heads off to fly the new route. I'm not suggestion this is the best way to go, but it is a working system that you don't [necessarily] need to do any coding work on.

There's no one single approach or set of directions that answers all the questions. If you ask around here you are going to find a number of individuals that each have their own approaches based on their own needs, interests, goals, and budget point.

But, even though there are myriads of options available for a broad range of budgets -- from bits and pieces to fully working systems -- new comers need to realize that UAV's are an end-to-end system. By that I mean that the airframe, the power system, the sensor suite, the flight computer, the software, the ground station, and the communication link, and the mission are all intricately linked and dependent on each other. If you change one of the items it can have a cascading effect on all the others. A person (or team) needs to have a workable understanding of all the systems to be able to proceed safely and successfully.

I would guess that everyone here has made a different set of choices and is working with a different combination of hardware and software.

That said (addressing UAVeez's concerns) if you are able to find someone here that matches up with your expectations of airframe, budget, capabilities, etc. and they are willing to send you a parts list or finished parts, printed instructions, and walk you through the entire process from start to finish, then that's great. If you can find exactly the sort of help you are looking for, then chalk another one up for the power of the internet and public forums. I only spoke up because you sounded frustrated that no one appeared within 24 hours of you asking the question, and I'm not sure the person you are hoping to connect up with here even exists.

If you can't find someone to help exactly the way you want to be helped, then you might want to take a step back, think about what you are doing, what you want to accomplish, what your budget might be, what sort of airframe and performance you want to achieve, what kind of sensor package you might want to carry, etc.

If you post more specific questions that come from a context of having a plan and demonstrate you've already put some thought into the subject, then I think you will find you have much better luck getting help from online forums.

When people ask for airframe suggestions, there are usually a wide variety of interesting selections that people will post about. If you want to know if one choice is better than another and how that might affect other pieces of the chain, then I'm sure you will get many opinions.

You may be frustrated that I'm not answering your question directly, but if you read closely, I am trying to help. I just don't think there is a direct answer to the question you are asking. Maybe I'm not always as tactful as I should be, but I'm trying to encourage you to put in more thought on your own about exactly what you want to do and how you envision things proceeding, then ask more specific questions about individual systems, or trade offs. If you want big picture help, then you really need to say something about your budget and your goals.

I can walk you through exactly how to build a UAV, but I suspect that this would not be the UAV you are hoping for, it's probably not at your budget point (either too low or too high) and it probably won't do what you want a UAV to do.

So I apologize if some smiley's or sarcasm slips past the outgoing internet filter once in a while, but I really am trying to offer some level of help here.

[fumiyasu]

just wondering, wht budget did you meant by too low?

[UAVeez]

Xbow makes the MNAV and has a complete open-source development suite for their unit, including
working flight computer code that interfaces with a working ground station. You can click to build routes graphically, upload them to the flying uav, and it heads off to fly the new route. I'm not suggestion this is the best way to go, but it is a working system that you don't [necessarily] need to do any coding work on.

There's no one single approach or set of directions that answers all the questions. If you ask around here you are going to find a number of individuals that each have their own approaches based on their own needs, interests, goals, and budget point.

But, even though there are myriads of options available for a broad range of budgets -- from bits and pieces to fully working systems -- new comers need to realize that UAV's are an end-to-end system. By that I mean that the airframe, the power system, the sensor suite, the flight computer, the software, the ground station, and the communication link, and the mission are all intricately linked and dependent on each other. If you change one of the items it can have a cascading effect on all the others. A person (or team) needs to have a workable understanding of all the systems to be able to proceed safely and successfully.

I would guess that everyone here has made a different set of choices and is working with a different combination of hardware and software.

That said (addressing UAVeez's concerns) if you are able to find someone here that matches up with your expectations of airframe, budget, capabilities, etc. and they are willing to send you a parts list or finished parts, printed instructions, and walk you through the entire process from start to finish, then that's great. If you can find exactly the sort of help you are looking for, then chalk another one up for the power of the internet and public forums. I only spoke up because you sounded frustrated that no one appeared within 24 hours of you asking the question, and I'm not sure the person you are hoping to connect up with here even exists.

If you can't find someone to help exactly the way you want to be helped, then you might want to take a step back, think about what you are doing, what you want to accomplish, what your budget might be, what sort of airframe and performance you want to achieve, what kind of sensor package you might want to carry, etc.

If you post more specific questions that come from a context of having a plan and demonstrate you've already put some thought into the subject, then I think you will find you have much better luck getting help from online forums.

When people ask for airframe suggestions, there are usually a wide variety of interesting selections that people will post about. If you want to know if one choice is better than another and how that might affect other pieces of the chain, then I'm sure you will get many opinions.

You may be frustrated that I'm not answering your question directly, but if you read closely, I am trying to help. I just don't think there is a direct answer to the question you are asking. Maybe I'm not always as tactful as I should be, but I'm trying to encourage you to put in more thought on your own about exactly what you want to do and how you envision things proceeding, then ask more specific questions about individual systems, or trade offs. If you want big picture help, then you really need to say something about your budget and your goals.

I can walk you through exactly how to build a UAV, but I suspect that this would not be the UAV you are hoping for, it's probably not at your budget point (either too low or too high) and it probably won't do what you want a UAV to do.

So I apologize if some smiley's or sarcasm slips past the outgoing internet filter once in a while, but I really am trying to offer some level of help here.

No feelings of frustration here. Thanks for your input.

[macboffin]

Presuming that Yumimasu is a Japanese name, and he's based there, U-Nav and Micropilot are out ; To put it briefly, the export of anything pertaining to even POSSIBLE uav use is forbidden.Canada has followed the U.S. line on this.Was speaking to David Perry at U-Nav recently ; the restriction on trade is severely hurting the industry, a lot of representations have been made to no avail. Apart from loss of sales, the market gap will be exploited by European and Asian producers, so the American producers will have competition, probably by those able to produce at lower cost. Add to this the growing market for UAVs and......... same story as rice-burner bikes, U.S. motor industry...........Growing trade imbalance........Mac

[dmgoedde]

All - I have a real and working autpilot that I intend to sell as a ready-to-go and easy to setup unit (not a rough development system for tinkerers), and it is a serious advancement over what is offered by anyone else out there for hobby-level systems, plus it will be cheaper that what you pay them for a full system, and even my Rev0 development system is half their total wieght - about 1.6 ounces including GPS and antenna. Specs: Up to 100,000 waypoints, independent altitude at each WP, Lat/Lon resolution 0.00001 degrees (about 3.8 feet) and the WPs can be up to 1.5 million miles apart (thus no limitation on Earth). Teach the unit by manual flight for about 1 minute, after which it does data fitting and stores the important flight charactersitics to a .ini file on a micro SD card (the same card that holds the waypoint list as a text file). Making the waypoint list is easy: click out a path on Google Earth then save the .kml file and run it through a simple program to generate waypoint.txt. The fly-teaching process trains servo direction, approximate center positions, and response slopes (gains). This system is only currently for stable motor glider types. There are failsafes to handle loss of GPS lock, and the system performs a return to launch and holding pattern if there is a problem, otherwise the user can define a final holding pattern at a site other than the launch site. size 3"x1.1"x0.5" and unit literally plugs between the R/C Rx and servos. See attached pictures.

[icebear]

That sounds really interesting dmgoedde!

Is the firmware upgradeable in your unit?

How do you manage wing levelling (Co-Pilot or integrated?).

Need a beta-tester with small electric UAV experience in Europe ;)?

/Icebear

[Munin]

Hello

In relation to what MacBoffin said I say run your product line from an European address; low tax area like Isle of Man. Over here in Europe we are some what more liberal when it comes to UAV technology.

Send a unit to IceBear for pre-market release. IceBear is a reliable person and he is located in the ever so popular country of Sweden.

/Munin

[_helitron_]

Hi, I'm also very interested in this device !

/Erwin

[jparisse]

I second the motion on Icebear... He is a fine, responsible gentleman and an experienced researcher that may be of great help. Besides, Swedish extremism is an oxymoron. :D

I’d like to suggest starting a different thread to begin public Beta testing. It will be a big help to you as developer to have a Home Thread.

Speaking of Home Threads, readers of this thread may be interested in my PicoPilot start to finish blogs at:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=511550

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=631757

These threads are similar to what UAVeez is seeking to compile (I believe).

Jeff (aka Workshop when I’m home at the workshop)

[dmgoedde]

Yes - I am very interested in beta testers!! I was throwing around ideas how to do it, such as tester can keep the unit provided they pay shipping and cost of parts (about $135 US for the parts), and they agree to wring the model out and provide feedback. Or, perhaps a bit below cost, or I'll pay shipping. Either way, you would be getting an awesomely functional hobby-level autopilot for under $200! If you decide not to keep it I would refund whatever money and say "thank you for your time".

Firmware - yes, upgradable. Besides my ability to re-burn the eeprom via a USB cable, I'm working on a way to have the firmware upgradable via file from SD memory card. I have a scheme, haven't tested that yet. If my scheme doesn't work, I have two options for the beta testers: 1) More desirable is that you plug unit into your PC via same type USB adapter I use, then burning the binary file to eeprom is trivial (I e-mail out new versions), 2) less desirable is that I do what UNAV does and have you ship the units back to me and I do it. I really prefer the SD card method, so I'm focusing on that.

To answer some more questions: The pictured unit (that I could make copies of and send out in a matter of days) is only for stable motor-glider types, like Hobby-lobby Miss2 (plenty of dihedral on wing). It has flown the Miss2, and even the tiny little "Tipsy" - a 9 oz trainer. This autopilot does not do wing leveling. The Autopilot w/ GPS weighs a bit over 45 grams and draws about 50 mA. The shown unit it handles 5V logic from the R/C Rx, but given that I'm using a 3.3V processor, I can make some easy parts swaps and it will read 3V logic just fine (no need for level shifters). OK that's sort of a tangent, however my point is that the unit is flexible. when I get home tonight I'll post a more formal list of specifications to help people decide if it will work for them and if they want to beta test. One of my main goals is to eliminate goofy limitations I percieve on other "hobby" autolpilots. I suppose the only real limitation of my pictured unit that it is intended only for inherently stable planes with polyhedral wings. I'd like to be the Henry Ford of these things: to make it easy for hobbyist to cheaply get into this if they aren't interested in tinkering with making electronics/ development-troubleshooting/programming.

I do have a 5 DOF IMU I developed that employs temperature-stabilized rate gyros. I have successfully used the IMU to achieve and hold pitch and roll flat with respect to gravity on an aileron plane with absolutely no dihedral and with the wings low on the fuselage (not a shoulder wing). If you look carefully on my pics you may see an empty socket on the main board right next to the occupied GPS socket. This unused socket is for my 5 DOF IMU. I have litho masks and plenty of PCB and components to crank out more copies of the same design on demand, so small-scale production is no problem on an asap timescale. I simply have not yet integrated the IMU programming code with current autopilot pictured above. The parts for IMU board is about $70 and it is 12x25x4mm. See attachment showing the IMU board.

[docphi]

Wow! Sign me up to beta-test. Great job! How about an integrated OSD to see the data for FPV.

[zik]

Nice SMT soldering work. It's finicky stuff!

Also interesting to see that our projects are using a number of similar components.

[ios]

Very impressive indeed,… I’m also keenly interested in beta testing! :rolleyes:

I’ve got a 3m powered glider ideal for the task.

I’m really impressed that the Rx plugs into your autopilot, reducing the need for additional wires b/w the two units. Which Rx are you using? Also, is the altitude intended to be controlled by the powerplant or the elevator? And what if the altitude isn’t attained i.e. short distance between waypoints, large elevation difference ? What failsafe operation does the autopilot perform when GPS lock is lost? (handover to rc / dead reckoning navigation back to luanch / straight and level flight/circling ??)

Keep up the great work, looking forward to hearing from you & your progress. These are exciting times arn't they !! :D

[icebear]

Thanks for your trust in us Swedes Jeff and Munin!!! :D :D :D

It looks like a really nice unit you have dmgoedde and the possibility to add a 5 DOF IMU sounds exciting.

I have a new Miss2 testbed sitting here and winter is still several months away, so I'd be happy to do some beta-testing.

/Icebear

[dmgoedde]

Wow - it's cool to get so much response! Thank you.

A 3m glider would be perfect to test. Although my unit worked in the tiny hobby-lobby "Tipsy" (9 ounces) it flies better on the bigger 30 ounce "Miss2" (old-timer, polyhedral wings, rudder/elev/throttle). A larger 3m glider should be rock-solid and with LiPos the duration could really exploit my autopilot's ability for essentially unlimited waypoints.

The R/C Rx is a Hitec Mini 6S 6 Ch. 72Mhz Micro Receiver (Auto Shift Select). I removed it from the case and shrink-wrapped it (mostly to hold the crystal in place). It is fairly cheap, around $35 and boasts a 1 mile range.

Current firmware controls altitude by the powerplant. If altitude isn't met no big deal - as the waypoint "satisfy" criteria depends only on being within a specified distance tolerance of the target wP (r^2 = X^2 + Y^2 pathagorean theorem). right now I'm using 200', though I used 50' for the Tipsy. By the way, I don't like controlling altitude by power plant because a "properly" setup airplane should have thrust line adjusted so that nose doesn't rise or fall with changes in motor power (i.e. throttle should not cause plane to climb). With the Miss2 the thrust line is pretty far below the wing, so increasing power is an effective way to control altitude. I'm currently hammering out the firmware to use my on-board barometer for elevator control. It's also important to note I'm not using a pitot tube for air speed control. I just make assumption that X amount of power correlates to Y amount of climb rate (positive, nuetral, or negative). I ignore airspeed... there is no provision in my waypoint.txt file to specify speed. So in short, if altitude isn't met, the autopilot still drives the airplane to the waypoint, hits within a "satisfy" tolerance, checks off that WP, then starts targeting the next WP, and altitude is a seperate control PID algorithm. I.e. the autopilot does its best to hit the altitude targets. The proportional control band for the P term is 100 meters right now, and the I term trims out throttle rather gently. What I'm expressing is that the plane hits altitude and locks on very well without oscillating over/above target.


Failsafe when GPS lock is lost: Yes, this firmware checks for valid GPS lock at 5Hz rate, and if lock is lost the current firmware would just continues flight in a straight line. This is one thing I haven't optimized yet, but here is the solution I'm working on (and I think it will be pretty much optimal): If GPS lock is lost the plane maintains current altitude via barometer, and enters a slow turn of approximately 10 deg/second. due to no GPS lock, the actual turn rate won't be known, but the plane will execute a turn based on known response factor of rudder from the manual training constants that were originally taught (and possibly refined at regular intervals during even autonomous flight). When GPS lock is re-gained, the plane goes on its merry way flying through the rest of the waypoints. In a real-world situation it might be nice to have telemetry so you know what's going on and where the plane is so if lock is never re-gained you can go meet the plane and recover it before batteries give out. One idea I'm batting around for the future is telemetry via cell-phone modem. These days with so much cell coverage, even in rural areas it would have practically infinite range. Sparkfun.com sells a few cell phone modems though they aren't cheap, but still cheaper than losing a plane.

the paragraphs above are a mixture of current capabilities with a smattering of items on the near horizon that will add a lot more ease of use. I'll make another post on current capabilites for the interested beta-testers, and a list of capabilites I'll have within the week.

[dmgoedde]

For those not familiar with PID control, what I meant by "proportional control band is 100 meters" I don't mean that altitude has a 100 meter uncertainty for my autopilot. The 100 meter control band means that if craft is +50 or more meters from (above) target, then motor power would drop to 0% of Proportional control band, and if -50 meters or less (below) from target the proportional control goes to 100% of power. right on target power is at 50% of control range, and for fine-tuning to target the I term of PID self-trims over time. Eventually the plane is within GPS or barometer resolution of target altitrude.

[Badllarma]

dmgoedde,
Your autopilot sounds great and I have a couple of questions.

Could this be used on a Nitro Plane?

And will there be a way of it activating third party camera triggers? I ask this as I have a "Blip" trigger for a Canon 640 and was wondering it there would be a way of it flying to a way point then once reached fire the camera (via the Blip) for x seconds before it goes to it's next way point?

Also I'm VERY new to UAV's and new to RC in general so would the operator get there plane/glider in the air and then the autopilot kicks in from activating a button on the TX or do you just start the model and off it goes? Finding the whole subject very interesting BTW :)

[dmgoedde]

Potential Alpha or Beta testers:

Alpha (current) unit that I can send today:

1) Up to 100,000 waypoints, stored on microSD flash card as a .txt file
2) Waypoints have no limit to distance between them (actually 1.5 million miles)
2.1) waypoint resolution is 0.00001 degrees, or about 3.8 feet.
2.2) For the trig calculations for navigation, the autopilot corrects the physical size of longitude as a function of degrees latitude above (or below) the equator. for example, where I am (33N and 111W) longitude is only cos(33deg), or 83.9%, as big as latitude.
2.3) there are no hemisphere restrictions to where this autopilot can work, in terms of the math employed in my firmware. As long as you can see enough satellites to get a valid lock, then it is party time.
2.4) My firmware is only setup to use the ETek EB-85A GPS. I get quick locks on 9+ satellites even in my basement and the data rate is 5Hz.
3) Altitude individually specified for each waypoint
4) checksum is used for each waypoint on the .txt file, if read error occurs, flight aborts and returns to launch site at +100 meters AGL, and error data is written to an "error.txt" log file on the SD card for troubleshooting later.
5) Upon power-up of autopilot the first 40 WPs are loaded to processor RAM. During the flight waypoints are loaded to RAM as needed in blocks of 20 from SD card, otherwise the SD card is not normally "mounted" during the entire flight, just as-needed to retrive waypoints.
6) By default, a holding pattern is created and exists in RAM which is an octagon of points circumscribed 100 meters above launch site. If there are any WP read errors during the flight the plane returns to the launch site holding pattern and circles as an infinite loop until user turns on the Transmitter takes control and lands the plane manually. During creation process of the waypoint file, before checksum program is utilized you can insert an "H" or "h" at beginning of a waypoint line and the autopilot will then do the trigonometry and make up a new "octagon" holding pattern circumscribed around the coordinatesof that point... then you just go out and meet the plane at that holding site to take manual control and land it (see #7 below).
7) Upon power up, the autopilot reads an auxillary reciever channel and memorizes that channel's value - and assigns this to mean "autonomous" flight mode. If the R/C transmitter is on and that auxillary channel is within +/- 50 microsecond pulse width of the memorized position, then the autopilot executes to the waypoint list in autonomous mode. If that channel is outside the +/- 50 range then flight is "manual" and the R/C Rx signals for for the control surfaces and throttle are patched through to the servos/speed control. If the transmitter is "off" then the autopilot is in autonomous mode. the way I fly is to manually fly the plane about 20 meters AGL get it to a good trim (see # 8 below), then switch to autonomouse, and once I'm convinced plane is flying itself fine (it alsways does) then I shut off the transmitter and collapse its antenna and just watch the plane fly. It doesn't matter if the plane goes outside transmitter range. When I want to abort mission or at end of mission i retrieve plane by turning on transmitter, taking control and landing the plane.
8) When you switch from manual to autonomous, the autopilot uses the last manual flight values for the control channels as an approximate center trim position. Of course by way of PID the autopilot has the freedom to re-trim itself as-needed to perfect the flight control and "nail" the waypoints. When I switch from manual to autonomouse, instead of just shuttind off the transmitter I first set the auxillary channel to "auto", then shut off transmitter.
9) I create waypoints in a really easy fashion that anyone with Google Earth can do: create a path of points and save that path on your desktop as a .kml file. you can specify absolute altitude in GoogleEarth for all the waypoints, or later hand-edit the list if you want specific altitudes at different waypoints. The .kml file is ran through a simple utility for cleanup to a .txt file. This .txt file is imported into an Excel macro I wrote. It is here that you can specify individual altidues or add an "H" at beginning of a waypoint row to mark this as a non-default holding pattern location. Excel does some text formatting, then you save the .txt file and run it through another utility that calculates an XOR checksum for each waypoint line. This is now the final flight-ready "waypoint.txt" copied onto the microSD flash card and inserted into the socket of the autopilot. The autopilot reads this file and executes that flight plan. I DO PLAN to make a single and simple utitility that takes a .kml file and in one step generates the "waypoint.txt" file. Another even simpler possibility is outline below for the "beta" version.
10) elevator stays locked at last position from manual flight. It is important to achieve good trim of elevator before switching to autonomous. This works just fine for stable motor-glider type planes when the wind is not too strong.

Firmware Beta1.0 unit that I could send roughly next week:
1) Have the autopilot directly read .kml files from Google Earth.

Firmware Beta2.0 unit in about a month
1) barometer control of elevator
2) flight path data logging to SD card, as a .kml file, so after the flight you can easily load actual flight performance and see it in 3D using GoogleEarth, and compare planned versus actual performance of flight plan.

Hardware Beta3.0 in about a month:
1) unit still has micro SD socket, however also a mini-USB jack and interface chip - result is that you plug USB cable from laptop to the autopilot, and the autopilot comes up on your computer as a drive that you can drag and drop files into instead of having to remove SD card to do file transfers.

I love this stuff! :p I love how you can learn stuff over the internet. I didn't know anything about SMD or microcontrollers at the beginning of 2006!

[dmgoedde]

Badllarma:

good questions. One thing about my autopilot I neglected to describe is that yes I made provisions in the waypoint.txt file for triggers, through my current firmware isn't setup to use them. the idea is to use them to trigger a camera, turn on a cell phone modem and place a call, or actuate a servo to drop something.

Yes, this would definately work on a nitro plane. I might have to add some code such that you manually train the throttle range by driving transmitter stick from low to high... that way the autopilot can't go low enough to shut off your plan's engine :D The autopilot would then limit its throttle range to within your specification. When you want to land you take autonomouse control via the auxillary channel, land it then shut off the engine by decreasing trim on the transmitter. Actually, any scenario of control you can dream up I can code.

Having a beta tester with a gas plane was my intent on a recent triip home to Indiana though it didn't pan out. My favorite uncle in the world (my inspiration for R/C planes since I was a kid) has an old "Goldberg Eaglet 50" with a 20 nitro. His radio equipment is form the late 1970's and is weird with more than three wires to each servo, so needless to say we didn't do any testing on that plane!

Would you be interested in beta tesing on a gas plane? What airframe do you have in mind? Remember, my alpha and proposed beta versions are only for very stable trainer/polyhedral glider types. This autopilot has tons and tons of features that I think make it really stand out, but it essentially just steers the plane around the sky like driving a car or a boat; it can't handle planes with flat wings.

[rcdoma]

Dmgoedde, I would love to beta test your autopilot in my 60 sized trainer (with FMA or BTA for stability if required). I've had good luck testing RCAP3 in it. I've relocated to India and can test it in this part of the world. My brother's in Tucson and he can pick up locally. I'd obviously prefer the SD card to be updated via USB :) I've always wanted altitude added to WP's as most of my RCAP3 testing was in hilly terrain.

[dmgoedde]

Short example of a real waypoint.txt file I flew yesterday. Note the "triggers" bits. Not used now, but I intend a firmware rev that uses them. I'm making a USB adapter expansion board so you can plug an unmodified digital camera right into the autpilot by mini USB cable, the autopilot will send serial commands to turn on camera, apply settings, snap photos or movies, etc...


Near Dean's House. 8/19/2007

WP latitude longitude Alt Triggers checksum

$00000,33.27072,-111.69378,0500,00000000*2A
$00001,33.27165,-111.69375,0500,00000000*21
$00002,33.27151,-111.69727,0500,00000000*26
$00003,33.27061,-111.69662,0500,00000000*25
$00004,33.27079,-111.69373,0500,00000000*2E
$00005,33.27168,-111.69381,0500,00000000*23
$00006,33.27161,-111.69536,0500,00000000*23
$00007,33.27143,-111.69719,0500,00000000*2D
$00008,33.27065,-111.69659,0500,00000000*22
$00009,33.27081,-111.69381,0500,00000000*29
$00010,33.27171,-111.69387,0500,00000000*29
$00011,33.27069,-111.69511,0500,00000000*29
$00012,33.27152,-111.69715,0500,00000000*25
$00013,33.27174,-111.69381,0500,00000000*29
$H00014,33.27112,-111.69468,0500,00000000*66
$####### END OF FILE

[dmgoedde]

RCdoma,

The USB plug-in would be a nice perk! I do have the chip to make this work, but haven't laid out the circuits or made mask artwork yet (meaning this is at least a month away).

For right now, it's not too much of a hassle to pop the memory card out of the autopilot and insert it into an SD adaptor plugged into my laptop. I do worry that the tiny little microSD card could easily be dropped or broken in the field, which is why when I start selling these they will have a mini-USB jack so you can connect and "see" the autopilot as a virtual drive that pops up on your computer like a memory stick does.

[rcdoma]

No problem! I think the beta testers can handle that ;) Your feature set is sure to catch the attention of a lot of AP enthusiasts; I need to dig out my A620 :)

I will be using Maxstream modems for telemetry, do you have any plans for updating WP's in the air in future versions?

[dmgoedde]

The reason I entered this discussion was I'm actuall a fairly newcomer to UAVs and feel exactly what the original thread creator "newbies" were expressing regarding desire for "simple" UAVs and wanting more experience people to help out and be non-judgemental. Sometimes you just don't know enough about something to even know what questions to ask - and that is just frustrating! All you know is that you have a passion. Besides describing this new Autopilot I've been working on the last few months (which I intend to make it be the best and simplest to use and setup hobby autopilot available), I'd be happy to share details of how I built my very first autopilot last year, even "give away" the detailed plans/instructions/code of how to build it and use it and understand my thought process along the way. I kind of "made it up" as I went along, as I didn't know about these online discussion groups. Through brute-force will and persistence I figured out some workable solutions. The only reason you might not want to build my very first autopilot is that the parts cost about $320 as I did it (about $75 each for two STAMP microcontrollers the BS2pe and BS2px, plus two $50 breakout board single-axis gyros from sparkfun.com, plus the $70 GPS module EM-406.) Also, being limited to such small RAM of the STAMP and 16 bit integer math was very difficult - BUT I assure you that you can make a functional autopilot of 2 ounce size using BASIC STAMPs that will fly a stable rudder plane for up to 4,000 waypoints with PID control and have independant altitude at each waypoint. I suppose using such limited equipment caused me to grow and learn a lot and desire to learn more and use better equipment. the result is that after I learned the basics I discovered that a lot of what I learned carries over, and the reality is that the "fancier" chips and electronics can be even easier to use than basic STAMPS.

I also started out by making that autopilot just drive an R/C truck around by GPS coordinates. This is a safe way to get your feet wet with autonomous GPS guided control and microcontrollers: There is no real chance of losing your hardware or destruction from a crash or destruction of other's property.

I feel a huge advantage has been that I've been an avid flyer/designer/builder since about 1976 when I was 5 years old and have been doing R/C in a 'hardcore' fashion since about 1982 when I was 11. I understand flight and aerodynamics of small planes at small Reynold's #s. I know how to build light, and really really light, and super strong/not so light when needed. I know about composites etc... I know AutoCAD inside and out. I understand a smattering (enough to get by) of algebra, trig, and physics. I know calculus principles but I wouldn't say that I'm well versed in it in a rigorous manner. I had to learn about microcontrollers (Parallax Inc is awesome for the utter beginner like I was), I had to learn about PID control theory. Here are things I DIDN'T learn and I still succeeded: Kalman filtering, matrix algebra, programming in C or C++.

So, I would encourage "newbies" to also have a lot of fun just flying and building and even designing from scratch R/C airplanes that are not autonomous - just plain' ol vanilla R/C. This will pay off huge dividends and make it easy to put yourself in the mindset of a microcontroller... to figure out how you would fly if you were limited to a series of simple instructions.

[dmgoedde]

No problem! I think the beta testers can handle that ;) Your feature set is sure to catch the attention of a lot of AP enthusiasts; I need to dig out my A620 :)

I will be using Maxstream modems for telemetry, do you have any plans for updating WP's in the air in future versions?


I sure do! I would call that a "gamma" version though.
I envision data link through some means (many choices: cell phone modem, various spread spectrum solutions, zigby, etc...) and being able to have the craft autonomously decide when to send status updates, SOS messages, or the user to 'link' up and view status or change WPs on-the-fly (pun intended). However, I've done no serious brainstorming on how to actually pull this off in practice, though I've learned that with electronics if it can be imagined it can be done given enough determination.

[Badllarma]

Hi yes would be very interested :)
The plane is a large trainer I'll post an image of it tomorrow (i'm off shift from tomorrow so will have more time) so you can see if it's suitable, the trigger device would be great as well as what I will be using it for is to cover large areas of country side for a personal project I'm working on at present. Sound like when fully operational is will be a great time saver.

I mainly fly helicopters near home but have a large acreage where I can do the testing in where a friend of mine lives :) This is where my project is based as well. :D

[dmgoedde]

Hi yes would be very interested :)
The plane is a large trainer I'll post an image of it tomorrow (i'm off shift from tomorrow so will have more time) so you can see if it's suitable, the trigger device would be great as well as what I will be using it for is to cover large areas of country side for a personal project I'm working on at present. Sound like when fully operational is will be a great time saver.


OK, looking forward to seeing the trainer pics and getting this all moving.

What type of trigger signal do you need? What voltage and current draw? Or is it a SPI/I2C/ or other com protocol digital thing?

[Badllarma]

OK, looking forward to seeing the trainer pics and getting this all moving.

What type of trigger signal do you need? What voltage and current draw? Or is it a SPI/I2C/ or other com protocol digital thing?

this is what I currently use then activate it via a spare channel and a switch on the TX plugs into a spare channel on the RX http://www.blip.com.au/item.aspx?itemID=14
Do not need the zoom just the trigger :) Have not go ta clue on digital Protocol :o :)

Just out of interest will there be a way on the autopilot to let you know if it is live or not while it's on the ground and to check the switch on the TX to make sure it not reversed, there was no way on the Blip and you fired everything up and suddenly the camera started shooting as the channel needed reversing on the switch, I'd hate to have the same problem thinking the auto pilot was now on when it wasn't :eek:
I'm sure this is one of the first things you have covered though :)

[docphi]

Any thoughts on a plug-in OSD for FPV flying?

[dmgoedde]

Any thoughts on a plug-in OSD for FPV flying?

Docphi - what is a "plug-in OSD for FPV flying"? I'm unfamiliar with the acronyms (I tinkered together my autopilot without being "in the know" with all of these forums)

[icebear]

dmgoedde,

thanks for posting more details and the story of how you got there!

I try to combine three hobbies here; general R/C flying, photography and autopilots and here are a few pictures of the airframes I have on hand for testing purposes;

1) SuperMiss with Miss2 polyhedral wing - this is the setup I use with the Picopilot, but I got a new SuperMiss when HobbyLobby re-introduced them since it has a longer nose for LiPO's. Only to discover that they had made the tail heavier so my older SuperMiss balances better!

2) Wattage SuperImpress II - A really stable small aileron trainer, with low rates you could ALMOST fly autonomously with RCAP but I added a FMA Copilot to make sure it is totally stable. Penetrates well too and cruises at 30 mph in my setup.

3) NSP Viking - My latest addition. A slightly larger (55", 600 sqin) airframe and very light for it's size. Also stable but needs a wingleveller. Currently I have tested it with the Picopilot with good results.

I've PM:ed you about possible beta testing.

/Icebear

[dmgoedde]

this is what I currently use then activate it via a spare channel and a switch on the TX plugs into a spare channel on the RX http://www.blip.com.au/item.aspx?itemID=14
Do not need the zoom just the trigger :) Have not go ta clue on digital Protocol :o :)

Just out of interest will there be a way on the autopilot to let you know if it is live or not while it's on the ground and to check the switch on the TX to make sure it not reversed, there was no way on the Blip and you fired everything up and suddenly the camera started shooting as the channel needed reversing on the switch, I'd hate to have the same problem thinking the auto pilot was now on when it wasn't :eek:
I'm sure this is one of the first things you have covered though :)

badllarma - sounds like your needed trigger is just a "normal" R/C type pulse-width modulated logic pulse at 50Hz. No problem! To set this up properly you would specify in a special .txt file on the SD card what pulse widths to use for "0" or "1" logic bits, in addition to which logic bit in the waypoint file you are referring to and which output channel on the autopilot this is referring to. In the future I will make a nice Windows program that allows you to graphically set up these things and the program makes the text file that controls how the triggers work. I'm very flexible on this and it would just be part of the beta-testing development that we could do as a 2-way communication after you get the unit in your hands. You would then verify with a simple short flight that the camera trigger worked as intended, if not, make adjustments to the .txt file.

Just out of interest will there be a way on the autopilot to let you know if it is live or not while it's on the ground and to check the switch on the TX to make sure it not reversed

Wow - I'm starting to realize how complex making an autopilot is (was) in terms of firmware and functionality/use in the field as I keep realizing that I have left off glaring details of how my current rev 0 system operates. Good question. I suppose because my current model is a summation of a thousand small victories over innumerable problems, it is both complex yet actually simple in use (that's the goal and beta testing will be a big help to refine this)

Here is how you start a flying session from the ground assuming you have already made the "waypoint.txt" file and it is on the microSD card inserted in the autopilot:

1) Turn on Transmitter, leave sticks in "neutral position" and the "autonomous" auxillary channel set to what you want "auto" flight to be. (I use the left "rudder" stick (channel 4) as auto/manual control, and actually use the "aileron" channel 1 stick on the right of transmitter for rudder steering when in manual mode. You might want to use channel 5 switch as your auto/manual control. when I later want manual flight I have to activel hold the left stick off of center, thus using an active action to maintain manual flight.)

2) Turn on power to the plane including the autopilot (my R/C Rx and autopilot get power from BEC of speed control through the channel 3 plug from the speed control - nice and simple. The autopilot can accept voltages from about 4 volts up to 12+, though the R/C Rx likes a tighter range like 4-6V)

3) As the autopilot is waiting for valid GPS lock, it does a gentle slow movement of the rudder once every 2 seconds....until lock is achieved. When lock is achieved then the rudder does a continuous pulse back and forth 6 times in a row then stops. Now you know that GPS is locked and autopilot is ready to go. (you also know that the autopilot has calculated and stored to RAM the 8 point octagon holding pattern located 100 meters above where lock is achieved)

4) Via the aux channel set to "manual" mode and launch the craft, fly it up to about 20 meters AGL. Trim throttle/rudder/elevator to maintain straight and level flight at constant altitude (this is to start the autopilot with good approximate neutral trim positions, however it re-trims as-needed via PID "I" term going forward in the flight plan).

5) Set flight to "Auto" mode. When you are satisfied that the autopilot is doing well, you can shut off the transmitter. The plane will stay in "Auto" mode and execute the waypoint plan until it gets to the end and enters either the default holding pattern over launch site or a holding pattern specified in the waypoint.txt. If for some reason the autopilot is acting weird (it never has for me) then you can just take back control and land the plane. (#5 assumes the plane has previously been "manually taught" the flight characteristics of the particular airframe and there exists on the SD card a valid "settings.ini" file from that teach session. If this file is absent you need to fly in manual mode for at least 1 minutes and put the craft through a series of gentle turns along with examples of climbing and descending flight via throttle control with elevator left alone in a good trim position. After one minute the autpilot takes collected data and does a least-squares fit to determine throttle and rudder approximate trim positions, servo directions, proper gain constants for auto flight, and servo travel limits. That's right, there is no need to worry about reversed servo directions, thought you need to ensure the transmitter has proper reversing for manual flight like a normal R/C craft does. I recommend saving the settings.ini file on your PC. If you install the autopilot in another airframe simply delete the settings.ini from SD card, and do the manual teach in the new plane. As long as the airplanes are stable glider types there will be no problems)

It is simple, but I added lots of descriptive text to explain the things I take for granted because I've been doing this for a while with my system

[Munin]

Hello dmgoedde

To maintain market demand, steady production and a health cash flow its of the essence that your market released version of the current autopilot has the capability of an IMU addon with an release date. Remember that you are up against the well known PicoPilot by UNav and it has wing-leveling capability (Y-harness mix and VeeTail mix compatible). I have had people telling me that the PicoPilot is having difficulty managing wing-leveling with aileron only. So there is something to put the effort in.

In other words you wont get a real wow effect until the IMU is in place.

I hope you got the design right from the start.
People will allso ask for waypoint trigger programming for their AP photos and waypoint loiter mode while doing AP. And the ever so often asked question "can it do in-flight reprogramming and telemetry".

Good luck and keep the spirit up.
Why not team up with MX, kd7ost, helitron and IceBear they are all hardcore.

/Munin

[dalbert02]

Just wanted to say I am also very interested in being a beta tester. I have some experience beta testing devices for others, most recently RC-CAM's Inspire. See my blog for more info http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=18943. As a side note, the Inspire board is also upgradable using a serial cable from the PC using a Hex file provided via email and a bootloader. Possibly your PIC is programmable using similar bootloader software?
-dave

[dmgoedde]

Just wanted to say I am also very interested in being a beta tester. I have some experience beta testing devices for others, most recently RC-CAM's Inspire. See my blog for more info http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=18943. As a side note, the Inspire board is also upgradable using a serial cable from the PC using a Hex file provided via email and a bootloader. Possibly your PIC is programmable using similar bootloader software?
-dave

I'm not using a PIC. I'm using the 8-core 32 bit "propeller" from Parallax inc. It is quite easy to upload firmware via 4 pins and a simple RS232-to-USB converter chip, although I'd rather have the option of firmware upgrade via presence of .bin file on the SD memory card or by drag-and-drop of file onto SD card via USB cable, then rmove USB and power-on the autopilot which then self re-burn the firmware in eeprom. This would seem to be an advantage over UNAV which require the end user to ship unit back to factory for firmware upgrade.

[dmgoedde]

Hello dmgoedde

To maintain market demand, steady production and a health cash flow its of the essence that your market released version of the current autopilot has the capability of an IMU addon with an release date. Remember that you are up against the well known PicoPilot by UNav and it has wing-leveling capability (Y-harness mix and VeeTail mix compatible). I have had people telling me that the PicoPilot is having difficulty managing wing-leveling with aileron only. So there is something to put the effort in.

In other words you wont get a real wow effect until the IMU is in place.

I hope you got the design right from the start.
People will allso ask for waypoint trigger programming for their AP photos and waypoint loiter mode while doing AP. And the ever so often asked question "can it do in-flight reprogramming and telemetry".

Good luck and keep the spirit up.
Why not team up with MX, kd7ost, helitron and IceBear they are all hardcore.

/Munin


Munin - your comments are worth a million $ or Euros at least! Thank you. Yep - agree that what I beta test better be pretty darn close to extremely perfectly function in the field, plus have certain features to ensure I'm competing well. I desire to gain the "WOW" effect out of the start gate and have this spread by word of mouth, the transition into sales. For now the Beta will just fly the hell out of any stable polyhedral trainer type, however it has been my goal from the start to enable easy setup and flight of V-tail aileron planes with no dihedral whatsoever - which I have demonstrated as well. Check out photos of a small-ish (26" span) plane that I use for development of that aspect. The only remaining hurdles are full integration of my current IMU into the control algorithm of my so-called beta version.

The IMU provides 7 data channels with 30 sample averages at 150 Hz... that is over 30,000 A/D reads at 12 bits every second. All of this is handled by one of the 8 cores of the propeller chip. I'm well on my way to success, but I have to bite my tongue and write conservatively as this stuff is akin to rocket science in complexity, and I have to be careful not to make claims of performance that I can't back up. anyway, check out the photos of a plane that I have done semi-autonomous flight with self levelling of roll and pitch.

Dean

[Unterhausen]

Are you reading all the servo channels at once, or are you taking a ppm frame?

edited because I answered one of my own questions

[dmgoedde]

Current firmware (written to work with my Hitec 6 channel Rx) reads pulses sequentially in pairs of two as they come from the reciever... Ch1 and Ch2 then Ch3 and Ch4 (though my unit has receptacles for 5 channels from Rx... my current firmware only samples 1 2 3 and 4. You could specify which channels are sampled). I understand that some receivers (Futaba?) send all pulses in parallel with rising edges in sync. Without modification my unit would still read this at 25 Hz on each channel. This is not a killer problem, as the autopilot still feeds the servos at 50 Hz. I could go on and on, but will just see if this answers the question. Thanks!

[_helitron_]

Great project dmgoedde, hats up !

When time is comming I'm also always ready for a beta ! Current plane is a MPX Cularis motorglider with 2,7 m (approx. 106") wingspan.

Cheers,

/Erwin

[Unterhausen]

Current firmware (written to work with my Hitec 6 channel Rx) reads pulses sequentially in pairs of two as they come from the reciever... I was just wondering since I had never seen anyone sample the servo outputs before; I'm getting a little tired of hacking on recievers to get the ppm frame signal out. Your method would work with any Rx, which is nice. Spektrum sends out all pulses at once on their newer Rx.

Looks like a very nice product.

[dmgoedde]

Yeah, and my micro (The Parallax Propeller) has ability (and I'm taking advantage of it) to measure pulses down to resolution of ONE clock cycle, or 12.5 ns at 80 MHz. Of course 12.5 ns resolution probably isn't realized in a real-world circuit with RLC delays... though I am able to discern noise in pulse width on sub-microsecond timescales that is different from one Rx to another Rx, so I know it is not my micro.

[dmgoedde]

Great project dmgoedde, hats up !

When time is comming I'm also always ready for a beta ! Current plane is a MPX Cularis motorglider with 2,7 m (approx. 9") wingspan.

Cheers,

/Erwin

Looks great. You need active roll stabilization I assume? There is very little dihedral angle.

I think I will have to start a new thread, as I appear to have effectively hijacked the original thread (though really I couldn't resist speaking up when I heard request for simple system and request making WP lists by clicking on a map like Google Earth - because I'm doing all of those things.

[dmgoedde]

Here is a rough outline of what I'm thinking for beta testers:

1) Each beta tester to sign and fax to me a form that they agree to all of the items in this list, especially: will not allow the unit to be transferred to another party and that it will not be used for any illegal or military purpose.

2) I get to pick the beta testers. I prefer USA due to govenment paranoia, and I will definately NOT pick anyone living in a "restricted" country per US regulations for this type technology (Syria, North Korea, Iran, etc...)

3) Beta tester pays cost of parts and shipping. In return for your favor of testing this and giving feedback, I will have provided the labor of building the units plus development/intellectual property of creating it. Parts costs is looking to be about $145 including the GPS module that I developed this for (ETek EB-85A which has a 5Hz refresh rate and 32 satellite tracking ability). This is the processor, barometer, SD socket, eeprom, GPS with integrated antenna, Vreg, PCB and header pins. This is not a kit - it will come to you ready-made with firmware loaded, and you just follow the directions of use and it will work. For another $40 I would include the same type Rx I used, the hitec mini 6 channel single conversion FM with auto shift detect plus the crystal of your choosing.

4) Beta testers agree to fill out a form of questions, and do an honest best effort to test the autopilot.

5) Beta testers agree to not sell the autopilot

6) Beta testers agree to not modify or "hack" the unit, or to attempt to reverse-engineer it or produce copies, or to sell copies.

7) If beta tester decides they don't want to keep it after trial period, then they can ship back the undamaged unit and I will refund their money that covered the parts cost.

8) I'm thinking about 6 to 10 beta testers maximum if the demand is there.

9) I'll provide video "proof" that this is a real working system, not some half-baked thing I tinkered together and it has lots of bugs and shortcomings. In short - I promise that I have not mis-represented my claims.

10) I'll send a manual written in English. Sorry - but I guess I'm too American in that I never learned another language!! Maybe someday.


If no-one agrees to pay for parts + shipping, I'll be forced to restrict to 2 or 3 beta testers maximum.

[_helitron_]

Hi dmgoedde !

Looks great. You need active roll stabilization I assume? There is very little dihedral angle.
Thanks ! Yes, I started with a FMA FS-8 Co-Pilot but had a lot of problems with the R/C range. Stabilization was very good but the included FS-8 receiver didn't satisfy my needs. Then I discovered the IR-stabilizer AP2000i from SpartanRC in UK with them I'm very satisfied. By the way AP2000i works with the X-Y IR-sensor of the FMA Co-Pilot. AP2000i was mainly designed for R/C helicopters (I'm a R/C heli pilot since 22 years) but is also usable for planes. The device is flashable and a special firmware for planes is in development in this time. It's a very neat little device with a LCD and 4 keys for programming and as a big advantage, calibration can be done in the air.

I think I will have to start a new thread, as I appear to have effectively hijacked the original thread (though really I couldn't resist speaking up when I heard request for simple system and request making WP lists by clicking on a map like Google Earth - because I'm doing all of those things.
A new thread is a good idea !

All my R/C activities are without any commercial interest, only for hobby use. I'm a FPV-flyer (Video Piloting) and a betatester for FredericG's OSD and rudder-home platform, here the development thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=664990

and here a little video with the OSD in action

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GPPGGHbIh_Y

Or here with a much higher resolution: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RE9WK2FI

Parallel I'm just playing around with a high-end OSD, the BOB-4-H, combined with a little ARM7 controller board to display on board measured values (TAS, barometric height, used mAh, distance from home + direction to home via GPS, and so on) during flight.

docphi mentioned it already but I'd also welcome a dedicated output (async-serial I prefer) for an OSD (On Screen Display) very much. It would be great when you'd output all interesting measured values in realtime via a serial output in a simple binary format augmented with a checksum (I prefer CRC-16). So it's possible to grab data via a tiny controller, to convert it and to send it then to a connected OSD. That's all from my side in the moment :) .

Ah, yes, regarding Google Earth, unfortunately it's useless in this time in my area because resolution is still too poor. But I've access to very good aerial photos of my area from our GIS server (geographical information system server) here, I use it for GPS-tracking on my laptop already.

Cheers,

/Erwin

[_helitron_]

Hi dmgoedde,

when possible I'm in and I agree with all your rules :) .

I want to use your Rx also but I need 35 Mhz (channel 76) here in Europe.

English should not be a problem at all when one is able to read/write on RCGroups :D .

Costs are ok for me.

Cheers,

/Erwin

Here is a rough outline of what I'm thinking for beta testers:

1) Each beta tester to sign and fax to me a form that they agree to all of the items in this list, especially: will not allow the unit to be transferred to another party and that it will not be used for any illegal or military purpose.

2) I get to pick the beta testers. I prefer USA due to govenment paranoia, and I will definately NOT pick anyone living in a "restricted" country per US regulations for this type technology (Syria, North Korea, Iran, etc...)

3) Beta tester pays cost of parts and shipping. In return for your favor of testing this and giving feedback, I will have provided the labor of building the units plus development/intellectual property of creating it. Parts costs is looking to be about $145 including the GPS module that I developed this for (ETek EB-85A which has a 5Hz refresh rate and 32 satellite tracking ability). This is the processor, barometer, SD socket, eeprom, GPS with integrated antenna, Vreg, PCB and header pins. This is not a kit - it will come to you ready-made with firmware loaded, and you just follow the directions of use and it will work. For another $40 I would include the same type Rx I used, the hitec mini 6 channel single conversion FM with auto shift detect plus the crystal of your choosing.

4) Beta testers agree to fill out a form of questions, and do an honest best effort to test the autopilot.

5) Beta testers agree to not sell the autopilot

6) Beta testers agree to not modify or "hack" the unit, or to attempt to reverse-engineer it or produce copies, or to sell copies.

7) If beta tester decides they don't want to keep it after trial period, then they can ship back the undamaged unit and I will refund their money that covered the parts cost.

8) I'm thinking about 6 to 10 beta testers maximum if the demand is there.

9) I'll provide video "proof" that this is a real working system, not some half-baked thing I tinkered together and it has lots of bugs and shortcomings. In short - I promise that I have not mis-represented my claims.

10) I'll send a manual written in English. Sorry - but I guess I'm too American in that I never learned another language!! Maybe someday.


If no-one agrees to pay for parts + shipping, I'll be forced to restrict to 2 or 3 beta testers maximum.

[docphi]

Docphi - what is a "plug-in OSD for FPV flying"? I'm unfamiliar with the acronyms (I tinkered together my autopilot without being "in the know" with all of these forums)

Sorry about the shorthand. An on-screen display (OSD) of data would be helpful for first-person view (FPV) flying. That would definitely put your unit miles ahead.

I'd love to beta-test and would definitely agree to your terms.

[Vince53]

Hi dmgoedde,

I'd like to participate as a beta tester and agree to your terms. I am using a Stevens Aero Soarstik with an extended fuselage for AP. Very stable and throttle management would work for altitude control. I am currently using an XPS receiver on 2.4 ghz. It would be great if that worked since I may need to use all 10 channels.

Vince

[rcdoma]

Count me in if you don't mind me testing it here in India. I agree to your terms and can arrange for local payment and pickup. I'll also need the receiver. You can PM me your fax number for the agreement along with the receiver channels available.

[dalbert02]

I agree to all you have said and wish to be included in the beta testing program.
-dave

[Tom Harper]

dmgoedde,

Congratulations on such an impressive system. I'm about a year into a similar effort and lag way behind yours.

Nice work!

Tom

[Badllarma]

Pm sent dmgoedde :)

[jparisse]

I live in Torrance, California and agree to the terms. I have avionics testing experience and a couple of airframes that can be used for this project. I own this company www.teslacoil.com and have the resources and time (until mid January) to Beta test. I usually post under the name "Workshop" but I'm on the road for a few more days.

Jeff Parisse

[Kilrah]

Count me in. From the specs I read that's exactly what I was wanting to develop myself, after a few years of thinking about what I'd want in such a thing. Very nice to see someone had the same wishes! :)

[Tom Harper]

dmgoedde,

Would definitely like to be a beta site and I agree to your list. I have various size models for testing. Will definitely use a camera but that can be on a Xmtr switch. Will use Airtronics 8 channel Receivers. I have an Etek 5HZ unit.

Does the system allow transmitter off operation?

You are close enough that I might drive over to Gilbert for a day of flying.

Got a ship date yet?

Tom

[Tom Harper]

Just looked at the 'Propeller' spec. Now that's wierd - but interesting - and well suited to the application.

Tom

[ios]

dmgoedde,

Wow this thread has exploded!! I'd also like to be part of the beta testing team. I'll post a picture of the proposed glider when I get home tonight,.. I think you'll like the dihedral on it !! I'd be happy to abide by your Terms & Conditions. I'm located in SA, Australia.

[Tahoe Jmfc]

Hi, I have a large scale flying art project I am working on for Burning Man next year and would like to test your autopilot. I have been flying at night for airshows for the last several years and have been building my own aircraft. I have tested before for another industry and would like to work with you. I am trying to save money on the project and this would help tremendously in getting the airplane functioning without blowing out my budget. I would like to discuss your project with you more so please email me or call 530.386.0649, I am on the west coast.
Thank you,
James Cole

[_helitron_]

Only a short additional info, yesterday I decided to replace my bimotorplane Twinstar II, that I used so far for FPV and rudder-home experiments beside to my motorglider Cularis, with a bigger one. The biggest drawback of the Twinstar II is the lack of room in the fuselage, so I ordered yesterday a much bigger bird with a 80" wingspan with a huge amount of room inside AND great for FPV, it's a PUSHER :D ! Of course I'll power it electrical.

Had luck also a local hobby shop has it on stock so I should have it on my workbench next week. It's an ARF one, that means it should finished in a very short time and yes, in my opinion it should also be a very good platform for testing autopilot functions.

Attached a photo, a building thread is running here already

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=662668

By the way, FPV camera I've planned to install under the nose in front of the front gear with the help of Mr. RC-CAMs Pandora camera mount (has already laying one on my workbench).

Cheers,

/Erwin

[d_wheel]

Only a short additional info, yesterday I decided to replace my motorplane Twinstar II, that I used so far for FPV and rudder-home experiments beside to my motorglider Cularis, with a bigger one. The biggest drawback of the Twinstar II is the lack of room in the fuselage, so I ordered yesterday a much bigger bird with a 80" wingspan with a huge amount of room inside and great for FPV, it's a PUSHER :D ! Of course I'll power it electrical.


/Erwin

I have had my eye on this one for some time now. Will definitely be watching for your progress reports.

Later;

D.W.

[_helitron_]

I have had my eye on this one for some time now. Will definitely be watching for your progress reports.

Later;

D.W.

Was a good idea to wait a bit D.W. as the canadian manufacturer did several improvements on the kit in the meantime.

Cheers,

/Erwin

[dmgoedde]

dmgoedde,

Would definitely like to be a beta site and I agree to your list. I have various size models for testing. Will definitely use a camera but that can be on a Xmtr switch. Will use Airtronics 8 channel Receivers. I have an Etek 5HZ unit.

Does the system allow transmitter off operation?

You are close enough that I might drive over to Gilbert for a day of flying.

Got a ship date yet?

Tom

I was a bit concerned that your ETek EB-85A might have different settings Flashed on it than mine, however it should work fine - as my firmware does a config setup of the ETek GPS upon powerup - though it is just two things: it sets the needed message strings, and it sets the baud rate at a specific value by 'speaking' this setup message at 4 different baud rates and checking the response. As long as your ETek unit is set for 5Hz rate and defaults to one of these 4 baud rates (4800, 9600, 19200, or 38400) then all should be fine. Your "Parts" cost to beta test would be $90 lower (I'm not adding any profit whatsoever when I say "parts cost", and if someone can point me to ETek EB85A cheaper thasn $90 let me know please - though later at bulk pricing I expect somewhat cheaper)

Yes - transmitter off is also interpreted by the autopilot as meaning "autonomouns mode". I personally manually fly the plane up to about 20 meters AGL, switch to autonomous, then shut off the transmitter.

[_helitron_]

Hi dmgoedde,

if I'm on the beta list I also don't need the EB-85A, have already one in use.

/Erwin

[dmgoedde]

[/QUOTE] You are close enough that I might drive over to Gilbert for a day of flying.

Got a ship date yet?

Tom[/QUOTE]

Tome, Very cool - some one-on-one beta testing and discussion! I work Sunday through Wednesday (Engineer at Intel corp, kind of wacky schedule), so Thursday-Saturday are 100% open.

Ship date is about 1-2 weeks out. Just yesterday I placed orders to make 5 more copies of the unit pictured, but it looks like I need about 15 total! My neighborhood has a variety of large grassy park areas we could use, however because I'm on the very outer edge of the Phoenix metropolitan area, there are some HUGE open tracts of land near my house.

Dean

[tazdevil]

Hi,

I'm very interested for your autopilot , I would like to be a beta tester too, cause fpv and autonomus flight is my first interest now. I've got several glider and lot of video stuff, to do some test , I would like to test it on a quadrocopter too in the futur if the soft could be modified , I could do the test in France and have time to do that. If it's working , i can do French translation for notice and review for French magazine. Keep us informed...!
I've ot a 5hz gps too , so , ready for testing..

Rgds

[Tom Harper]

Dean,

If you have a PayPal account the $$ transfer will be quick and easy.

Tom

[Rockeyes]

Good idea Tom

[dmgoedde]

Dean,

If you have a PayPal account the $$ transfer will be quick and easy.

Tom

I don't yet - but I will have a paypal account and that is how I planned to do it.

Dean

[dmgoedde]

Today some of the parts arrived from Digikey, and the five ETek EB-85A arrived. I'm not a rich fellow, so it is in both of our interest for me to get these out the door and offload the inventory!!

I've decided on a few minor design changes to make the beta more flexible to work with on a variety of R/C Receivers:
1) instead of female block of pins for Rx to plug into, will do very short wires to dangling individual female sockets, like 3cm wires. This would enable even Rx like the Berg Stamp4 which has pins on the side.
2) jumper pins to select for 3V/5V logic reveivers. Later in post-beta units I'll use some scheme based on a line driver or level shifters to make 3V/5V completely transparent to the end-user.

For those that already have an ETek EB-85A, that's great and we can make it work fine, or we can figure out how to overcome the FLASH'd settings to make it like what my autopilot expects. For those that don't have ETek EB-85A, I'm just passing the exact cost on to you, no profit.

For those that have some other GPS, I am steering clear of that for now due to time involved making the code more general. If and when I sell this for real, it will be as a package - a drop-in solution for autonomous flight. By fixing the bill of materials, problems are avoided here in the early stages and later. Besides, the price point I'm thinking about would put this into a new market segment that is currently un-tapped.

To explain a bit more, my firmware can read generic NMEA strings just fine from any GPS, however it expects a baud rate that is higher than some units might support, plus hard-wired into my firmware are the setup commands for the GPS module. Also, I need 5Hz data to do good approximations of numeric differentiation that are important for the control algorithms used.

[Tom Harper]

Dean,

What's the baud rate. I'm using 38400.

Tom

[dmgoedde]

Dean,

What's the baud rate. I'm using 38400.

Tom

Yep - 38,400 is my baud.

For the sake of others, it is also OK at 4800, 9600, and 19200. As long as your unit defaults to one of those (or 38400). My firmware attempts to make connection at all 4 of those baud, when it finds a match it forces the unit to 38400. If baud rate is outside that range, I'll have to expand the range of baud that firmware tries to speak (this is no problem whatsoever)

[docphi]

Dean,

Do those GPS units have the new firmware? It's supposed to solve the drift problem with the original units.


K

[Rockeyes]

I’m quite interested on how to monitor the system. For example how plausible is it to be able to monitor via an OSD parameters such as waypoint, distance info etc?

[_helitron_]

That's exactly one of the reason why I'm pleading for a dedicated OSD interface (async-serial output for example) very much.

/Erwin

[Rockeyes]

Sorry helitron I must of missed your post but looking back I see dmgoedde touched on the subject in post 26.

I agree with you and think the OSD is the way forward as used in FPV applications. It would be comforting to use that live downlink to build up confidence in long range exercises. It would also give the ability to switch and fly in manual beyond visual range, have the ability to record the flight and give a GPS location in the event of a retrieve. Not liking the Cell-phone modem idea much.

[_helitron_]

Hi Rockeyes,

I meant post #55, there I mentioned the OSD interface.

Of course I'm also a fan of a realtime connection to the groundstation and prefer for example 250 mW Aerocomm radiomodems with a range of 15 km.

Here in this thread

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=728111

the same modems were used for a similar purpose.

And yes I also don't like the cell phone idea. I've got very bad experiences with active cell phones near to R/C and/or FPV stuff.

Cheers,

/Erwin

[dmgoedde]

I’m quite interested on how to monitor the system. For example how plausible is it to be able to monitor via an OSD parameters such as waypoint, distance info etc?

Rockeyes, Should not be a problem for OSD parameters. This is one reason I've opened up so many details on RX Groups, to get this sort of feedback. BTW, I have no experience with cell phone modems, so if others know it's a waste of time then I'll de-prioritize it.

[dmgoedde]

Dean,

Do those GPS units have the new firmware? It's supposed to solve the drift problem with the original units.


K

I'll find out.

[UAVeez]

These threads are similar to what UAVeez is seeking to compile (I believe).



Exactamundo

[UAVeez]

The reason I entered this discussion was I'm actuall a fairly newcomer to UAVs and feel exactly what the original thread creator "newbies" were expressing regarding desire for "simple" UAVs and wanting more experience people to help out and be non-judgemental. Sometimes you just don't know enough about something to even know what questions to ask - and that is just frustrating! All you know is that you have a passion.

Glad you're onboard dmgoedde! :) Very good input.

[fumiyasu]

wow...been away for a few days and all these new posts... Looks like dmgoedde's product could have everything we newbies wanted and cheaper than anything available now... real looking forward to the final, and the "gamma" ver with telemetry.... But I was wondering if it would be possible for me to look at the documentation of your first auto-pilot tht you mentioned and see if i can learn anything from tht?...

[dentompie]

I'd be interested. I have UAV experience (MicroPilot and my own autopilot in the pipeline...) with delta-planes.
I already have the GPS module.
Let me know if you'd be interested to let me test me.

http://tom.pycke.be

[dmgoedde]

By "first" autopilot you are referring to my unit that is made from 2 different basic stamps and used the EM-406 GPS, along with two single axis rate gyros (two ADXL330 breakout boards from sparkfun.com). Good news is that it was successful, and as a bonus it was my first attempted autopilot.

It works for very stable (trainer) rudder planes and a cheap toy truck which I was able to have navigate down the center of street in front of my house and around a myriad of turns and eventually travel about 1 mile on the streets (late late at night!!). It has flown a plane on 4 mile courses, and one was a "mission" 1km South to a friend's house (I got 120 1 megapixel photos from that flight). I let it get completely out of sight a few times (oops, then I read some FAA rules) It holds up to about 4000 waypoints in memory (if I remember right, as the BS2pe has a lot of memory for a Stamp), independent alt at each waypoint, HOWEVER the parts alone cost about $350 as I made it. whew! Other "issues" include literally no headroom to improve the firmware very much above super-simple bare bones functionality. The code has to make extensive use of the "scratchpad" ram, juggling variable data around. Also, what a headache with the 16 bit numbers, and being careful with negative numbers to divide them properly etc... also it does have some basic error handling such as loss of GPS lock (but not as cool as "perform slow circle"). when/if GPS lock is lost the program simply doesn't accept the corrupt data, thereby not messing up the running calculations.

I picked the BS2pe to interface with GPS and calculate overall steering and mission management such as waypoint following, and calculating the desired heading and DeltaHeading to hit target. This Stamp runs the show. This stamp is serially connected to another, the BS2px, which runs a lot faster (maybe 19k lines of basic code per second). The BS2px accepts info from the BS2pe once per second as the control PIDs are updated, but the BS2px's job is to provide steady 50Hz reading of two rate gyros and 50Hz feeding of pulses to all three servos. Both Stamps independently measure status of the "control" R/C channel which tells autopilot wether to be autonomous or manual flight.

I could go on and on, but I'll just throw some of the stuff on here as attachments. I have good pics of the board before shrinkwrap, can't find it right now.

[Badllarma]

Sounds great dmgoedde!
Looking forward to giving this a tryout, :) How long do you think now before the NDA (Beta paper work) is sent out?

[fumiyasu]

thanks dmgoedde

[dmgoedde]

Sounds great dmgoedde!
Looking forward to giving this a tryout, :) How long do you think now before the NDA (Beta paper work) is sent out?

NDA this week. I have a few thoughts and additions to the original list, but no serious changes. It will be the same spirit. As you might imagine, this response has been a bit overwhelming - in a good way of course. It looks like I hit a good nerve. I'm spending all my free time making betas right now. Because I used through-hole version of many components for one-time rapid protoype that I showed, making betas involves drilling about 95 holes with various tiny bits + dremel + jeweler's 10x loup. More than likely most betas will be produced from me by a PCB house over the next 1-2 weeks. Plated through holes! Plated through holes!

I re-designed some elements of beta which I'll describe later. Last night I finished the PCB with hole drilling and parts placement. I'm only waiting for one thing: female 8 pin JST sockets for the GPS and IMU from sparkfun.com

Also, I found the pics of old autopilot, but I'll caution everyone not to judge my current capabilities based on how it looks! Since then I discovered a myriad of things including making PCBs via UV mask patterning, wonders of surface mount, etc... You could make an exact copy based on the plans and pics, I think. Other drawbacks beside high price of components are that so much info on plane flight is hard-wired into the code. It was a real bear to tune.

[dmgoedde]

I'm going full-bore making betas, have enough parts on hand to make 5 or 6 except the 8 pin female JST sockets are in transit from sparkfun.com. Based on beta demand, I'll be ordering more components.

The beta hardware I'll be shipping have three GOOD improvements over the one you see on 2nd page of post:

1) 6 receiver channel inputs, not just 5. Also, 5 servo outputs not just 4. I had two unused IO pins on the micro, so why not?
2) instead of rigid block of female sockets for Rx pins, the betas will have 1" wires to individual female sockets. You could use this with any Rx, even one with pins turned sideways like the Berg Stamp4.
3) Big!: Added circuitry so that 3V/5V receivers interface TRANSPARENTLY to this autopilot. No jumpers, no specifically dedicated "versions" of the autopilot to suit a particular Rx. I personally own an array of several 3V and 5V Rx from many makers, and will verify this claim throughly.

As I'm making Betas, I'm also refining the firmware. To be in the Beta's in as-shipped configurations:
1) Failsafe if GPS lock is lost: slow turn by setting rudder to value that will cause slow turn, and maintain current altitude via barometer alone.
2) Fixed small math bug that in Southern Hemisphere would have caused holding pattern to be in a jumbled order, not smooth CCW flight through 8 waypoints in octagon.

I'm opening up this sort of detail in hopes that you'll understand I'm dedicated and able to fix problems QUICKLY.

[dmgoedde]

I’m quite interested on how to monitor the system. For example how plausible is it to be able to monitor via an OSD parameters such as waypoint, distance info etc?

Rockeyes and others interested in OSD:

What is required format of data for OSD? I know there are a number of wireless data link/modems that offer seemless transfer of bits across the wireless link, so I assume asynchronous, and what baud rate? Is it some other format? Is it just a symbol to define start of a line, then a bunch of comma-seperated data fields? Please point me to some literature of the key OSD hardware.

As long as I have a spare processor, this will be easy. For now, the IMU port is unused, so that is where I would plug in a small expansion board to interface the OSD transmitter, or it might be as easy as a plug with appropriate connectors on each end.

[_helitron_]

Hi dmgoedde,

for example, I've this OSD in use in the moment

http://www.decadenet.com/bob4/bob4.html

here an application guide for

http://www.decadenet.com/bob4/B4AppGuide.pdf

and here a piece of C code to control the OSD

http://www.decadenet.com/bob4/BOB-4%20Code%20Example.txt

But in my opinion it makes no sense to customize your autopilot for a special OSD. It's a lot of work due to the necessary programmability of the screen layout. I'd prefer an output as you mentioned already, start character plus comma separated values plus checksum (CRC-16) plus end character. Async-serial is ok for sure (BOB-4-x offers a SPI I/F also), Baudrate should be programmable. In my case I'd put a tiny controller between autopilot and OSD to preprocess the data for the OSD.

ASCII format is good for debugging, a binary format would be better for a fast transfer of course.

By the way, OSD data goes not via a wireless link, in the case of FPV video comes from the tiny camera on board, goes into the OSD (OSD board builds the overlay) and then into the video transmitter on board of the plane. The transmitter sends then the complete video (video plus OSD overlay) to the ground station.

Only my 2 ct.

Cheers,

//Erwin

[Rockeyes]

“In my case I'd put a tiny controller between autopilot and OSD to pre-process the data for the OSD” Erwin.

That seems to make a lot of sense it also should allow for a modular approach allowing for an additional system to be attached as experience, finances and requirements grow. That approach should also help to keep to the original design requirements.

Erwin. Have you got any images of your equipment before installation?

Bill