Throttle/pitch mixing help

[Dad]

HI
I'm just bought a T-Rex 450SE V2 with a 6EXH TX. I'm new to this hobby
which I'm finding extremely challenging! Anyway a couple of buddies of
mine bought the king 2 to learn on. Well it seems that to get the heli
off the ground they had to switch to idle up and use the "throttle" left
stick to adjust pitch for take off.

This worried me for a newbie and proved rightly because the heli flipped
over and because they were not quick enough to flick idle off - the
blades hit the deck, stalled the motor and burnt out the ESC, motor and
on one of them the gyro (he thinks). This happened on both models.

What I want to do is use the throttle to behave like a fixed pitch heli
i.e. as I increase speed the pitch increases to a point where it starts
to hover (1500 rpm?)- Gently. If i get into trouble i can then shut off
the throttle, which I'm used too. I just want to take it easy to start
off before I play with the idle up.
So can the throttle pitch be mixed this way? Can anyone explain how this
is done using the Futaba 6EXH?
Regards
Martin

Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
stalls/crashes?

[Bob Holdford]

"Dad" <Mystical@Nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.212064155c7f3afa989680@news.cable.ntlworl d.com...
> HI
> I'm just bought a T-Rex 450SE V2 with a 6EXH TX. I'm new to this hobby
> which I'm finding extremely challenging! Anyway a couple of buddies of
> mine bought the king 2 to learn on. Well it seems that to get the heli
> off the ground they had to switch to idle up and use the "throttle" left
> stick to adjust pitch for take off.
>
> This worried me for a newbie and proved rightly because the heli flipped
> over and because they were not quick enough to flick idle off - the
> blades hit the deck, stalled the motor and burnt out the ESC, motor and
> on one of them the gyro (he thinks). This happened on both models.
>
> What I want to do is use the throttle to behave like a fixed pitch heli
> i.e. as I increase speed the pitch increases to a point where it starts
> to hover (1500 rpm?)- Gently. If i get into trouble i can then shut off
> the throttle, which I'm used too. I just want to take it easy to start
> off before I play with the idle up.
> So can the throttle pitch be mixed this way? Can anyone explain how this
> is done using the Futaba 6EXH?
> Regards
> Martin
>
> Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
> protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
> stalls/crashes?
>
>

Not sure if this can be done or not. Though, sounds to me as if a good sim
would come in handy.


Bob

[GAZLAZ]

Download the manual and use the throttle curves shown, 1=0, 2=40%, 3=65%,
4=85%, 5=100%. 1 is 0 degrees pitch(blades).3 is +5 to +6 degrees and 5 is
+9 to +11 degrees for general hovering/ learning to fly.

d" <Mystical@Nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.212064155c7f3afa989680@news.cable.ntlworl d.com...
> HI
> I'm just bought a T-Rex 450SE V2 with a 6EXH TX. I'm new to this hobby
> which I'm finding extremely challenging! Anyway a couple of buddies of
> mine bought the king 2 to learn on. Well it seems that to get the heli
> off the ground they had to switch to idle up and use the "throttle" left
> stick to adjust pitch for take off.
>
> This worried me for a newbie and proved rightly because the heli flipped
> over and because they were not quick enough to flick idle off - the
> blades hit the deck, stalled the motor and burnt out the ESC, motor and
> on one of them the gyro (he thinks). This happened on both models.
>
> What I want to do is use the throttle to behave like a fixed pitch heli
> i.e. as I increase speed the pitch increases to a point where it starts
> to hover (1500 rpm?)- Gently. If i get into trouble i can then shut off
> the throttle, which I'm used too. I just want to take it easy to start
> off before I play with the idle up.
> So can the throttle pitch be mixed this way? Can anyone explain how this
> is done using the Futaba 6EXH?
> Regards
> Martin
>
> Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
> protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
> stalls/crashes?
>
>

[GAZLAZ]

Also www.helifreak.com has build videos and lots of general help and
information, www.runryder.com is another good source of info, aswell as this
group!
have fun!

[Dad]

In article <MPG.212064155c7f3afa989680@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,
Mystical@Nospam.com says...
> HI
> I'm just bought a T-Rex 450SE V2 with a 6EXH TX. I'm new to this hobby
> which I'm finding extremely challenging! Anyway a couple of buddies of
> mine bought the king 2 to learn on. Well it seems that to get the heli
> off the ground they had to switch to idle up and use the "throttle" left
> stick to adjust pitch for take off.
>
> This worried me for a newbie and proved rightly because the heli flipped
> over and because they were not quick enough to flick idle off - the
> blades hit the deck, stalled the motor and burnt out the ESC, motor and
> on one of them the gyro (he thinks). This happened on both models.
>
> What I want to do is use the throttle to behave like a fixed pitch heli
> i.e. as I increase speed the pitch increases to a point where it starts
> to hover (1500 rpm?)- Gently. If i get into trouble i can then shut off
> the throttle, which I'm used too. I just want to take it easy to start
> off before I play with the idle up.
> So can the throttle pitch be mixed this way? Can anyone explain how this
> is done using the Futaba 6EXH?
> Regards
> Martin
>
> Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
> protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
> stalls/crashes?
>
>
Many thanks for the info, very comprehensive and good advise. The 450
was delivered RTF and setup by an expert, but I will however be studying
the manual and vids you pointed out - thoroughly!
One thing I am aware of, this heli is not a toy and will not be used as
such. I have Reflex and am working slowly through Radds guide.

I am not planning on taking this bird up for some time until i am
confident about hovering. So far it is hard going - I'm brilliant at
making the heli behave like a pendulum!

Will I ever get this to stop? What's the technique to make it stay put!!
It's like balancing a marble on a sheet of glass! I tend to agree with
the experts, flying a heli takes tremendous amounts of patience and
skill:)

Anyway, many thank for the info
Regards
Martin

[Chuck]

They are called fuses, and you can usually get them in auto parts stores.
I don't know what current that your motor and ESC draw, so I cannot
recommend a fuse.
The fuse should be placed in series with the positive ESC lead.
Assuming a brushless ESC it will need to be on the input side of the ESC,
unless the ESC has some sort of open motor lead detection.
The drawback is that if the fuse is too small, or opens while the helio is
in the air, and the brushless ESC is providing 5vdc to the receiver, There
is a loss of control.
A brushed ESC can have the fuse on the positive motor lead, and the receiver
and servos continue to be controllable if the fuse opens.



"Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
stalls/crashes?"


"Dad" <Mystical@Nospam.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.2123110f40670574989681@news.cable.ntlworl d.com...
> In article <MPG.212064155c7f3afa989680@news.cable.ntlworld.com>,
> Mystical@Nospam.com says...
> > HI
> > I'm just bought a T-Rex 450SE V2 with a 6EXH TX. I'm new to this hobby
> > which I'm finding extremely challenging! Anyway a couple of buddies of
> > mine bought the king 2 to learn on. Well it seems that to get the heli
> > off the ground they had to switch to idle up and use the "throttle" left
> > stick to adjust pitch for take off.
> >
> > This worried me for a newbie and proved rightly because the heli flipped
> > over and because they were not quick enough to flick idle off - the
> > blades hit the deck, stalled the motor and burnt out the ESC, motor and
> > on one of them the gyro (he thinks). This happened on both models.
> >
> > What I want to do is use the throttle to behave like a fixed pitch heli
> > i.e. as I increase speed the pitch increases to a point where it starts
> > to hover (1500 rpm?)- Gently. If i get into trouble i can then shut off
> > the throttle, which I'm used too. I just want to take it easy to start
> > off before I play with the idle up.
> > So can the throttle pitch be mixed this way? Can anyone explain how this
> > is done using the Futaba 6EXH?
> > Regards
> > Martin
> >
> > Oh as a point of interest, is there a safety device or method that can
> > protect the ESC, motor etc against this devastating motor
> > stalls/crashes?
> >
> >
> Many thanks for the info, very comprehensive and good advise. The 450
> was delivered RTF and setup by an expert, but I will however be studying
> the manual and vids you pointed out - thoroughly!
> One thing I am aware of, this heli is not a toy and will not be used as
> such. I have Reflex and am working slowly through Radds guide.
>
> I am not planning on taking this bird up for some time until i am
> confident about hovering. So far it is hard going - I'm brilliant at
> making the heli behave like a pendulum!
>
> Will I ever get this to stop? What's the technique to make it stay put!!
> It's like balancing a marble on a sheet of glass! I tend to agree with
> the experts, flying a heli takes tremendous amounts of patience and
> skill:)
>
> Anyway, many thank for the info
> Regards
> Martin
>
>

[The OTHER Kevin in San Diego]

On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:31:03 GMT, Dad <Mystical@Nospam.com> wrote:


>Many thanks for the info, very comprehensive and good advise. The 450
>was delivered RTF and setup by an expert, but I will however be studying
>the manual and vids you pointed out - thoroughly!
>One thing I am aware of, this heli is not a toy and will not be used as
>such. I have Reflex and am working slowly through Radds guide.

Define "expert" :) Like I said, it's a good idea to poke around the
various online forums for info. There are a LOT of people out there
that started the same way you are.

>I am not planning on taking this bird up for some time until i am
>confident about hovering. So far it is hard going - I'm brilliant at
>making the heli behave like a pendulum!

I still get into that mode sometimes myself.

>Will I ever get this to stop? What's the technique to make it stay put!!
>It's like balancing a marble on a sheet of glass! I tend to agree with
>the experts, flying a heli takes tremendous amounts of patience and
>skill:)

Small, smooth movements on the controls. Heli's are about "touch" and
"anticipation". I fly full scale helis as well as models and the
"anticipation" is the same for either.

Basically, what you're experiencing is pilot induced occillation (PIO)
and YOU are doing it. It's a simple premise to get the heli "stable",
but it's going to take practice.

Let's say you're in a hover.. The heli starts to move left, so you
apply some right cyclic to compensate. The heli stops it's left
movement and begins to move right so you add left cyclic. You've just
entered PIO and it'll get worse the more this cycle is followed.

To "fix" this, you need to modify the way you're applying control
inputs.

Again, you're in a hover. The heli starts to move left so you apply
right cyclic to stop this movement. The trick is to remove that
corrective input JUST before the heli stops moving to the left.
That's the "anticipation" part. Conversely, if the heli starts moving
right, you apply left cyclic and JUST before the heli stops moving
right, remove the left cyclic input. It's the same regardless of
whether it's left/right or forward/backward movement. Hope that makes
sense.

One thing you may have realized already.. You will ALWAYS be moving a
stick when hovering. You'll have to constantly make SMALL corrections
to maintain a stable hover. It'll come, but it'll take practice and
one day you won't even think about what you're doing, it'll just
"click" and you'll be hovering. Once you get to that point, you'll
work on nose-in hovering and REALLY screw with your head 'cuz
everything is reversed at that point. :)

In the mean time, keep working with the sim as it'll help you develop
muscle memory. Nothing will replace actually burning electrons, but
the sim does help.

One last thing. I hope you've got a good job. This is a seriously
addictive hobby.. I was out of it for about 12 years and got back
into it a couple years ago. I now have 7 (yes, SEVEN) helis and am
looking to buy another one before year's end. :)

Good luck!

[NTL]

Many thanks for the input, I actually got the heli to hover the other
day and kept it in a reasonably small area, in fact i was concentrating
so hard that my hand pushed the throttle stick up, instead of down! I
have no idea whay made my "brain made my had jerk this way. Anyway I hit
the wall and the blades bust. Carbon 3K as well!.

I replaced the 450SE V2 main shaft and blades (balanced) but i feel that
there is a still a very slight vibration now in the model. I cannot
think what elses might have been damaged...any thoughts?
Regards
Martin



In article <6vujb3p1o4eincu080mjtlbtg5gsg439i9@4ax.com>, The OTHER Kevin
in San Diego <skiddz "AT" adelphia "DOT" net> says...
> On Tue, 07 Aug 2007 23:31:03 GMT, Dad <Mystical@Nospam.com> wrote:
>
>
> >Many thanks for the info, very comprehensive and good advise. The 450
> >was delivered RTF and setup by an expert, but I will however be studying
> >the manual and vids you pointed out - thoroughly!
> >One thing I am aware of, this heli is not a toy and will not be used as
> >such. I have Reflex and am working slowly through Radds guide.
>
> Define "expert" :) Like I said, it's a good idea to poke around the
> various online forums for info. There are a LOT of people out there
> that started the same way you are.
>
> >I am not planning on taking this bird up for some time until i am
> >confident about hovering. So far it is hard going - I'm brilliant at
> >making the heli behave like a pendulum!
>
> I still get into that mode sometimes myself.
>
> >Will I ever get this to stop? What's the technique to make it stay put!!
> >It's like balancing a marble on a sheet of glass! I tend to agree with
> >the experts, flying a heli takes tremendous amounts of patience and
> >skill:)
>
> Small, smooth movements on the controls. Heli's are about "touch" and
> "anticipation". I fly full scale helis as well as models and the
> "anticipation" is the same for either.
>
> Basically, what you're experiencing is pilot induced occillation (PIO)
> and YOU are doing it. It's a simple premise to get the heli "stable",
> but it's going to take practice.
>
> Let's say you're in a hover.. The heli starts to move left, so you
> apply some right cyclic to compensate. The heli stops it's left
> movement and begins to move right so you add left cyclic. You've just
> entered PIO and it'll get worse the more this cycle is followed.
>
> To "fix" this, you need to modify the way you're applying control
> inputs.
>
> Again, you're in a hover. The heli starts to move left so you apply
> right cyclic to stop this movement. The trick is to remove that
> corrective input JUST before the heli stops moving to the left.
> That's the "anticipation" part. Conversely, if the heli starts moving
> right, you apply left cyclic and JUST before the heli stops moving
> right, remove the left cyclic input. It's the same regardless of
> whether it's left/right or forward/backward movement. Hope that makes
> sense.
>
> One thing you may have realized already.. You will ALWAYS be moving a

[The OTHER Kevin in San Diego]

On Thu, 30 Aug 2007 23:21:07 GMT, NTL <Mystical@hootermail.com> wrote:

>Many thanks for the input, I actually got the heli to hover the other
>day and kept it in a reasonably small area, in fact i was concentrating
>so hard that my hand pushed the throttle stick up, instead of down! I
>have no idea whay made my "brain made my had jerk this way. Anyway I hit
>the wall and the blades bust. Carbon 3K as well!.
>
>I replaced the 450SE V2 main shaft and blades (balanced) but i feel that
>there is a still a very slight vibration now in the model. I cannot
>think what elses might have been damaged...any thoughts?
>Regards
>Martin

I'd be willing to Beav's Zed that the feathering spindle is bent..
Easy way to check. Pull one blade off. Extend the other one fully.
Stick your trusty hex driver into the retainer bolt and turn it.
Watch the tip of the other blade. If it moves in circles, the
feathering spindle is bent.

Don't forget to lube the dampers (or replace 'em if they're dodgey)
when ya put the new one back in. Also, make sure you loctite the
retainer bolts (and don't foul the bearings with the stuff) as well.

Good luck.