Best 50cc for conversion?

[KatManDEW]

What do you all think is the best 50cc plane for electirc conversion? One of the Yaks, and if so, which one? Hyperion? Quique? Extreme Flight? Other?

My main concern is balancing... I don't want to have to mount the batteries clear out in the cowl. I would like them accessable via the hatch.

I would also like to run one high torque aileron servo in each wing half.

For the big debate - which motor? Although I dislike gearbox problems and maintenance, I'm leaning toward a Neu motor, for light weight and low current consumption. Can I balance with with a light motor like a Neu?

Whadda think?

[txfly]

What do you all think is the best 50cc plane for electirc conversion? One of the Yaks, and if so, which one? Hyperion? Quique? Extreme Flight? Other?

My main concern is balancing... I don't want to have to mount the batteries clear out in the cowl. I would like them accessable via the hatch.

I would also like to run one high torque aileron servo in each wing half.

For the big debate - which motor? Although I dislike gearbox problems and maintenance, I'm leaning toward a Neu motor, for light weight and low current consumption. Can I balance with with a light motor like a Neu?

Whadda think?

are you interested in using a123 cells? they should provide power and ballast.

[Smash McCrash]

One of the locals is wanting to convert the GP Yak to E. He's planning on using a 53 series AXi, iirc, and LiPo's. Probably something in the 3700-4300 mAh range, and 10S. He thinks he will be able to keep it to about 12-14Lbs. I have heard the the Air Wild planes are good candidates as well, because they are lightly built for the size. Personally, I would like to have an Extreme Flight 74" Yak or Wild Hare 50cc Sukhoi. But, after converting a 90 sized H9 Funtana, I am waiting until battery prices and chemistries settle a bit. The A123's look promising, but I think I will wait and see what people are using first. I have some, but am a little disappointed in the performance, but that could have been my fault. I am getting some more to see.

Mike

[n411x]

:rolleyes: Hi, I just Finished a Wild Hare Edge 540T 28% I have 20 Flights so far and am loveing how nice it fly's 14 min flight times with some 3D and Imac mixed on a Hacker A60-16L, Castle HV85 speed control 24x12 APC Prop, TWO TP 5s4 8000. (10s) 57 to 60 amps and 17 lbs. all up WT.

[Pistolera]

You might wanna check out this thread on the upcoming 3DHS 85" Extra 300 SHP;
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=56838

Earle

[KatManDEW]

I'm not interested in A123's at the moment.

I missed a good deal on the GP Yak at our Fly-In last Sunday.

A guy in my club had the Wild Hare Edge 540T 28% with a 50cc on it and he didn't like it. I think guys are running the Hacker A60-16L on 12s on 15+ pound Yaks.

While we're at it, are the Yaks really better than some of the other aerobatic planes, like the Extra, etc. I get the opinion from many folks that everything other than a Yak is junk.

[margaret.roberts]

There was a dude posted yesterday i think, anyway yesterday i put a response to the thread, it was an axi 53 powered gp yak54 i think he is Swiss and it looked cool in the vid.

Maggie.

[Surly_Schmidt]

While we're at it, are the Yaks really better than some of the other aerobatic planes, like the Extra, etc. I get the opinion from many folks that everything other than a Yak is junk.

They were probably the ones who, before the yak was popular,said that the yak looked stupid because it didnt have wheel pants, that its nose is too fat and what else did they say...

[KatManDEW]

But do the Yaks actually fly any better than other planes? Better 3d? Better precision? Less coupling? Better knife edge? Less snapping tendency?

[blucor basher]

Do you mean a 100% scale Yak? Because once model designers start pushing, pulling, stretching, tweaking...then all bets are off. Typically, model designers add wing area and fuselage length to Yaks. Larger rudders, often, too. Some designers stretch Yak noses out, too.

An F3a pattern plane with a round cowl and double-tapered wing makes a cool "Yak 54" model, but that makes it impossible to answer your question.

After working with Extra 300's for the last several months, I haven't found any inherent limitations in that design compared to the Yak...although of course we have been pushing, pulling, stretching, tweaking...

[KatManDEW]

Do you mean a 100% scale Yak?

No, the model Yaks. Specifically the 50cc models in this case.

[F1 Rocket]

I think the Yak 54 is popular as a model because most of them still kind'a, sort'a look like a Yak 54 after it's been tweaked for good flight performance.

[Smash McCrash]

But do the Yaks actually fly any better than other planes? Better 3d? Better precision? Less coupling? Better knife edge? Less snapping tendency?

I don't think so, on average. I usually just pick a plane because I like the lines and the covering scheme. Some fly with less coupling, some not.

Mike

[margaret.roberts]

I like Sukhoi's. :)

Maggie.

[KatManDEW]

I know Gary Wright and some other have converted the Hyperion 50cc Yak. And Sean Plummer converted the 50cc Great Planes CAP easily.

Any other specific 50cc planes that you know of that convert easily, and don't come in too heavy when electrofied?

[kmp647]

Well the hyperion yak isnt exactly a conversion, its built for electric power.

and I can speak for the z5045B motor , it runs cool and spins a 24x12e at 3800 to 4000 watts
no CG problems either.

I put together an Airwild extra 260 87"
12s 4350s 15 lbs 4 oz Z504518b motor spins a 24x12e at 6080 rpm

no cg issues, a lighter geared setup could be used.
my motor with mount is 37 oz plus the esc

batteries are no where near the firewall

Kevin

[Smash McCrash]

I like the EFlights. Especially the black and yellow. I have heard that the Air Wild planes build light for the size.

Mike

[tone]

Extreme Flight RC makes great, very light models.

On your other thing, from my observations and conversations, it seems as though the Yak is a winner in the extreme high alpha and below stall speed stuff, the Edge tumbles and knife edges best, the Extra isn't as stong as the others "perhaps" in their best areas, but is better in their weak areas (tumbles better than a YAk but not as good as an Edge or Sukhoi, but floats and harriers and such better than the Edge or Sukhoi) if ya know what i mean. If you like Lomchevaks, then the Sukhoi is the model for you, if you like Elevators, maybe not.
The guys i know that have flown a bunch of different big models seem to find the YAK is the best compromise. Sometimes i think they just like the Huge canopy and battery bay area.. :)

Personally, like Smash said, i try to pick a model i like the looks of, if i know it is going to do it all really good. I really like the way the Extra looks, and i hate the CAP 232s canopy, while i like the tail group. To each his own...Every design has it's quirks.

Each of these models is a great flyer, especially when you balance, power, prop and fly it in the manner it likes best.

look at it this way.
QuiQue Somenzini and Chris Hinson (extremeflight) are both Yak afficianados.
Watching either fly is a real pleasure. But in the last few years i have had the opportunity to watch Gary Wright fly noon demos at SEFF and his slow, close and almost intimate style is truly amazing.
There are lots of other great pilots, but the point, i think, is made.

[KatManDEW]

That's the kind of info I wanted to hear, tone. Thanks.

I ordered a 85 inch Hyperion Yak today. I'll use either a Neu motor or a Hacker A60.

[margaret.roberts]

That's the kind of info I wanted to hear, tone. Thanks.

I ordered a 85 inch Hyperion Yak today. I'll use either a Neu motor or a Hacker A60.

New fanned hacker looks cool checkout bonedocs dalton xtra conversion thread.

Maggie.

[KatManDEW]

I've been watching bonedoc's thread.

I may go with the new Hacker A60, but I'm still not convinced that it won't suck way more amps to deliver the same in-flight power, as a geared Neu motor. If I can fly this plane with 3000 watts instead of 4000 watts, and still have the same in-flight power, my batteries will be happier and last longer, and I can fly longer.

[tone]

Wow
That Hyperion has a good reputation, i am betting it will be a fantastic performer.

[margaret.roberts]

I've been watching bonedoc's thread.

I may go with the new Hacker A60, but I'm still not convinced that it won't suck way more amps to deliver the same in-flight power, as a geared Neu motor. If I can fly this plane with 3000 watts instead of 4000 watts, and still have the same in-flight power, my batteries will be happier and last longer, and I can fly longer.

I have been playing with an old skool astro 40 with astro gearbox i picked up recently and it pushes the same prop as an axi 4120/14 for a longer time but is heavier and costs more, it basically equates as you state ie. 25% less power needed.

Are you equating the new fanned hacker 60 motor against steve's?

Maggie.

[KatManDEW]

I haven't seen any data from the new fanned Hackers.

[margaret.roberts]

I haven't seen any data from the new fanned Hackers.

Me neither, they were talkin lower current draw in dalton thread 'tuther day>

I personally would like one of those big axi's on modelmotors link at www.puffinmodels.com

Maggie.

[kmp647]

one of the benefits of the hyperion design (z5045 B) is that it can be backmounted and has a fan.

the hackers look to have a great cooling system but need a front mount that is 8oz

the axi 5345 series is not recomended to be backmounted when using large props in acrobatic aircraft.and have no fan

I used Desert aircraft standoffs meant for a DA50 , they only are 4oz and are very strong

[Tor-DK]

I know Gary Wright and some other have converted the Hyperion 50cc Yak. And Sean Plummer converted the 50cc Great Planes CAP easily.

Any other specific 50cc planes that you know of that convert easily, and don't come in too heavy when electrofied?

I see in the Hyperion Yak thread you ordered one of those, so you'll find out eventually... but anyway :) - you don't need to convert it as it is made solely for electrics.

In fact if you converted it, you would put a DA50 on it :D

[Edit] Didn't notice the page 2.

I don't know about the other motors, but this model is made for Hyperion Z5045-B18 above which is rear mounted and an easy bolt on.

[Splummer]

I have built and flown the following with good success. All are capable of excellent performance when outfitted with correct power. I Know that 200 watts per pound is necessary if you want 50cc GAS type performance on any Aerobatic/3D type model. For 50cc scale and sport models at least 125 watts per pound is necessary ( I prefer 150-175W/lbs for Warbirds).

Please keep in mind most 50cc models have large cowls that do not provide airflow behind the spinner, therefore motors that are used during the summer months must be capable of self cooling during flight. I have have seen numerous motor failures( From the big name companies!) here in phoenix during the past 2 months of summer, These same systems seemed fine during the winter when our temps were in the 60's.

Note: All models listed have a TopHatch/Canopy access for battery changes, I don't connect any battery's on large model unless I can do so from behind the wing easily into the fuselage!

Dave Patrick Extra 330L ARF- This plane is pretty nice with easy handling and precise pattern performance, not the best for 3D. Easy build at About 16 LBS AUW. This plane makes average pilots look good.

QQ 86" Yak 54 ARF- Really for more advanced pilots, but can do it all 3D and precise pattern. Overall a a little longer to build, but worth it for the strong performance, about 16 LBS AUW. This plane is a little touchy for intermediate pilots but can be tamed using expo/low rates, Absolutely awesome in the hands of an expert 3D pilot!

Hyperion 85" Yak 54 ARF- for advanced pilots, decent 3D and pattern. medium build time at about 16 LBS AUW. This plane is a little touchy for intermediate pilots but can be tamed using expo/low rates, overall strong performance, but requires quite a bit of triming to be optimized, C/G, incidence, etc.

Hangar 9 1.50 P-47- Easy flying large warbird. Fast build, but lots of servos and wiring, about 20 LBS AUW. Takes off and flies like a trainer, but does require a careful and controlled landing on the mains, Hard landings are tough on the retracts. I love to fly this model!!

Seagull models Bling 3D- Really over size 3D parkflyer. Typical build time, great value for a large 3D model, Needs Metal gear servos on the wings about 15.5 AUW. Pretty much 3D hovering and low speed aerobatics only.

27% Cap 232G ARF- Excellent all around Pattern/3D model. Super easy build and fast build, about 16.5 LBS AUW. This plane tracks and flies very smoothly, and easy to land, but it will snap if to slow and too much elevator is applied ( I feel this is the best flying CAP ARF available, have also owned the Nasty type of CAP's that were no fun!). Fly this this model a little faster and it is really nice! Great engineering by Peter Goldsmith.

There are more but, gotta go flying...

-Sean

[KatManDEW]

Thanks for the info Tor and Sean!

I thought about the 86 inch Quique, but it's more expensive, and I got the feeling that it might be a little heavier.

I had a Dave Patrick Extra 330L with a BME 44 on it, and I sold it. I didn't like the gas engine, and it has considerably less wing than the ~85 inch yaks. Dumb thumbs like mine need nice floaty planes :)