Another Genie leaves the bottle

[JustPlaneChris]

Well, it finally happened. One year, four months and four days after construction began, the Big Genie took flight! :D Harley, thank you for the fantastic design, and I apologize for the lengthy gestation period. :o

Of course, it really didn't take me that long to build it. It just seems like life (and other distractions) kept getting in the way. Those of you who read the RCSD articles know all about one of those distractions (weird machines with wings that spin around :rolleyes: )

Anyway, I can say the result was definitely worth the effort. Even though she's a bit heavier than Harley's birds at 107 oz, she flies with effortless grace and surprising agility. EDIT: I did a re-weigh, and she's sitting at 103.9 oz. Even in the bad conditions we had Saturday, I was scratching around at low altitudes working tiny scraps of lift like we'd been flying together for years. Some of that weight will go away as I remove some of the 8 oz of nose weight during the coming flying sessions. A few fast passes revealed a tendency to nose up, so she's definitely a bit nose heavy. Why so much nose weight? The only explanation I can come up with is too much glass/paint on the aft fuselage, and perhaps heavier wood than I should have used in the tail surfaces. Oh, and I'm using a rather light receiver pack (2400 mah 2 cell Li-Ion with regulator).

Keith, it was great to meet you Saturday, and I thank you for running the retriever and providing insight and moral support during the maiden voyage!

Enough rambling. Here are some pictures, a YouTube video, and a link to a higher quality version of the video on my web server if you wish. I apologize for Liz's exclamation during the winch launch, she was quite unprepared for the speed at which it leaves the hand. ;)

-Chris

Higher quality version: www.justplanechris.com/videos/geniemaiden.wmv

YouTube version:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjcU6UDCCiA

[infopimp]

WOW! Link to the build thread? (yeah Im lazy)

[averen]

SWEET!!! Glad you finally got some air under her! Man, I need to start building a Genie again...but I think I'll go with the glass fuse and save myself some work :)

Awesome maiden, heard there were some launch issues but it looks like it went fine!

Jared

[JustPlaneChris]

WOW! Link to the build thread? (yeah Im lazy)The build thread for my ship isn't here on RC Groups. It was published in several issues of RC Soaring Digest, available for (free) download in PDF format at www.rcsoaringdigest.com. The series begins with an introduction by Harley Michaelis (the designer) in the March 2006 issue. I'll write a conclusion article in the next few days so they can wrap it up.

You can see a few picture albums on my site at http://www.justplanechris.com/genie/index.php but none of the last few months (the finishing) are there. Like I said, "distractions". :rolleyes:

Jared, there were indeed some launch issues... seems like nobody could get a grip on the gal! Bruce lost his balance and fell down on the first launch, but kept his foot on the pedal. (Nothing like a full pedal launch for a maiden flight! :eek: ) Tim lost his grip on launch two (seen just before Liz's colorful comment) and you can see the fuselage dip precariously after it whacked his arm. And on the third launch, the winch almost jerked it out of his hand, but he quickly switched to a two-hand grip. Despite all that, the trips up the line were uneventful. :D

-Chris

[nuevo]

beautiful build. Congratulations.

[averen]

Despite all that, the trips up the line were uneventful. :D

That's good! Sounds like you might have buffed out the paint a little too much!

Jared

[JustPlaneChris]

That's good! Sounds like you might have buffed out the paint a little too much!LOL! Tim blamed it on not washing his hands after eating all that BBQ for lunch. ;)

Thanks for the kind words, neuvo! It looks better in pics than in person, but I'm happy with the way it turned out. :cool:

-Chris

[LVsoaring]

Nice looking machine Chris, you should be proud. One of our club members has a Genie, it's a fantastic sailplane!

[may fly]

Nice work Chris. I'm slowly getting mine done, maybe by the end of August.

[RickerG]

Nice Chris. Wish that I could have been there. I wonder what it feels like to fly? ;) Ask me and I will tell you all about it and never stop talking. LOL.

Great job!


Ricker

[kablair]

What a beautiful maiden flight! It is truly amazing to see how graceful such a big and 'substantial' plane the Genie can be.

What Chris didn't elaborate on was how good his piloting skills were. With the model not yet trimmed and the transmitter set up without any advanced mixing, he had to fly with both sticks at all times. Even still, he was even able to make manual adjustments for the butterfly mode compensation.

Maybe there is some use in all that rotary wing flying he's been doing :)

Nice work Chris!


-Keith

[JustPlaneChris]

Aww shucks, Keith! You make it sound like I'm some kind of super-pilot. Truth is, the Genie just flew so well it made me look better than I am. :) I do admit though that heli flying has certainly made it easy and natural to fly well-coordinated turns without help from the radio. :cool:

-Chris

[greyhound flyer]

Glad to see you've finished and maidened your Genie! They way these planes fly is better than can be described. Elegant, responsive, quiet, and very true.

Welcome to the fold of Genie builders/flyers!

[JustPlaneChris]

Glad to see you've finished and maidened your Genie! They way these planes fly is better than can be described. Elegant, responsive, quiet, and very true.

Welcome to the fold of Genie builders/flyers!Thanks, Byron! You are right, it's hard to describe how they fly. I've only flown a few open class birds (Victory C, Alcyone, Thermal Eagle... none of the current crop) so I don't have much basis for comparison. All I can say is I felt immediately comfortable with the Big Genie, like I'd been flying it for years. :cool:

I edited my first post to include this, but I did a re-weigh today and she's actually only 103.9 oz, and that's going to come down as I re-distribute and remove some of the nose weight. I may also try to build a lighter set of stabilizers, as mine are 1.3 oz (less rods). How does that compare to yours?

-Chris

[JustPlaneChris]

Here are some "action shots" of the Genie during its first launch and flight. Enjoy! :)

-Chris

[greyhound flyer]

Chris,

My stab pair weighs about .9 oz with a slight repair and slightly extra Monokote.

The pair for my LT/S that Harley made weighs about 1.1 oz.

My entire ship is about 94 oz with too much lead (a cast brick at ~10 oz+, iirc) in the nose. It may get closer to 90 when it's all said and done. Still have to do more balancing this year, but having 2 kids consumes A LOT of free time. Not that I'm complaining one bit. :D

--Byron.

[averen]

having 2 kids consumes A LOT of free time
You need to get them into sailplanes, or at least building sailplanes...that way you're in constant supply! I thought that's what kids are..."free" labor. At least that's what my dad always told me...

Jared

[greyhound flyer]

You need to get them into sailplanes, or at least building sailplanes...that way you're in constant supply! I thought that's what kids are..."free" labor. At least that's what my dad always told me...

Jared

I'd love to, but they're 3 and 1. Just a touch early, methinks. :)

[averen]

Naw, small hands...just the right age to get into those hard to reach spaces! :)

Jared

[JustPlaneChris]

And likes it. :D

We had an informal club contest this morning, and I took the Genie out after doing some more programming and moving the CG aft. Despite gusty winds (15-20mph) she performed admirably. The only difficult thing about the Genie is the launch. She's just so darn big it's hard to get a good grip. Poor John Freeman had a devil of a time getting a good launch for me, with several pop-offs as a last minute gust kicked a wing up (and no amount of control would bring her back to center). There were lots of gasps from the guys, but these pop-offs were easily managed from my perspective. John was very apologetic, but hey... it's all good! I appreciated the help! :) Once we got the launch technique down, she did well and can zooooooom (there's mass and momentum for ya). :cool:

So how did she do? Second place! And this was against a field of moldies too. :D

With a little more practice and tweaking of the mixes, the Genie is going to be a strong competitor. I'm not sure about me, but the Genie is certainly capable. :rolleyes:

-Chris

[kablair]

Chris - hard to believe such a light plane :rolleyes: did so well in the wind!

I've found my Genie does best with a full pedal launch to about 250-300'. At that point I take out my camber, lightly tap the winch to keep it moving and climbing for about 3 seconds, then full pedal straight out for 1-2 seconds with a bit of down. Pull back, drop the winch line and gain 100-150' before applying full down to avoid a stall.

Poor winch sounds like it's groaning but the Genie never blinks :)

Glad to hear you did so well against such a distinguished field of competitors - those Austin guys are good! I'll have to work on my technique.

-Keith

[JustPlaneChris]

Chris - hard to believe such a light plane :rolleyes: did so well in the wind!LOL! Yeah Keith, she's a real gasbag. :p

Actually, she has lost a bit of weight. I made a mold and poured an ingot of lead that fits precisely in the forward fuselage, rather than just a bundle of fishing sinkers taped together. This allowed it to go further forward. I also moved the CG aft about 3/16" from where it was for the maiden flights. This allowed me to trim the weight down to a svelte(!) 102.7 ounces. :rolleyes:

Regardless of the jokes about her weight, I heard several comments today about how she grooved back from downwind without losing much altitude, and I pulled off one of those "no way, he can't make it back from that altitude" landings too. :cool:

Gotta love it! :D

-Chris

[jfreeman]

Genie's got some legs!!!

All that mass mixed with a little momentum enabled the Genie to penetrate better than most did today....and, yes, Chris hit the ground effect and flew 150% farther than anyone thought he could! Amazing! Landings, however, were not a problem.... :D

Takeoffs?? Well, let's just say that other than choking down advil for my sore arm and healing my bruised ego after several pop-off's, I've decided to start pumping iron to get in shape for the next time Chris shows up with the iron lady! Gotta work on that left arm strength..... :cool:

Keith, you two need to have a Genie fly-off up here....I'll set up my winch, advance the timing for a little extra power, and throw you guys up for a 13 minute task and landing contest.....loser buys wings and beer. Deal??

John.

[JustPlaneChris]

I've decided to start pumping iron to get in shape for the next time Chris shows up with the iron lady! Gotta work on that left arm strength..... :cool: ROFL! John, you do realize that you've just named my Genie. The Iron Lady. I love it! :D

She may be heavy, but you're right: She does have nice legs. :cool:

-Chris

[greyhound flyer]

Iron Lady?! What about the Lead Zeppelin? :D

--Byron.

p.s. I'm in the process of moving my CG and towhook back, too. May get it under 90 ozs. Talk about tails of the distribution. :)


ROFL! John, you do realize that you've just named my Genie. The Iron Lady. I love it! :D

She may be heavy, but you're right: She does have nice legs. :cool:

-Chris

[JustPlaneChris]

Iron Lady?! What about the Lead Zeppelin? :D

--Byron.

p.s. I'm in the process of moving my CG and towhook back, too. May get it under 90 ozs. Talk about tails of the distribution. :)Iron Maiden, maybe? As long as we're talking about rock and roll. :p

I don't think mine will ever go under 100 oz. Most of my excess weight is in the wings, but then again if I didn't have so much nose weight.... Eh. It ain't broke, why try to fix it? :)

-Chris

[ScottLister]

Chris, I really enjoyed the build of your genie. I am currently working on the fuse of an LT/S. I am having trouble getting hi-load 60 foam and had an idea I would like your opinion on. What about using 25psi foam like on the easy LT/S but use the LT/S planform and bag 1/32 balsa with the tapered carbon spars? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Scott

[JustPlaneChris]

Chris, I really enjoyed the build of your genie. I am currently working on the fuse of an LT/S. I am having trouble getting hi-load 60 foam and had an idea I would like your opinion on. What about using 25psi foam like on the easy LT/S but use the LT/S planform and bag 1/32 balsa with the tapered carbon spars? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
ScottHey Scott,

I'm really not the guy to ask.... Harley is the man who could give a qualified opinion on something like that. I do know he's made a wood-skinned variant, but I don't think he used 1/32.

The final installment of the Genie article series will be in the September RCSD, but if you've read this thread you already know most of the details. :)

-Chris

[averen]

Chris, I really enjoyed the build of your genie. I am currently working on the fuse of an LT/S. I am having trouble getting hi-load 60 foam and had an idea I would like your opinion on. What about using 25psi foam like on the easy LT/S but use the LT/S planform and bag 1/32 balsa with the tapered carbon spars? Any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Scott

You might also get in contact with Les about getting the cores. http://compufoamcore.com/

Now I want to get my CNC foam cutter back :(

Jared

[JustPlaneChris]

Good point, Jared! even though I've cut (literally) hundreds of sets of wing cores, I used Les' cores, and they are fantastic bits of work. Well worth the money, IMO. Sometimes it's worth it to get something done exactly right, with the right materials, even though I could have done it myself. :rolleyes:

-Chris

[kablair]

Scott,
I too had difficulty finding HL60. When I *finally* found some 25psi foam in 2" thickness here in Houston, I was ecstatic and bought a couple of sheets. (turns out Dow has 1 distributor in Houston and they didn't know who it was...)

I sent a note to Harley asking his thoughts and he strongly suggested that I find HL60 or, better yet, order Les' cores. I haven't cut hundreds of wings yet, but I've done several dozen with my own homemade cutter. My wife would have a fit if I then went and spent more money on cores.

A call to my local distributor found that he had some left over from a large freezer job. When it's gone, it's gone. But for the mere price of $25/sheet for a bundle of 96, he'd be able to order some more... I ran down and bought several sheets.

As soon as I picked it up, I could tell the difference. Living in Maine, you should be able to track something down - either through Dow or Owens Corning. It really is much stiffer, stronger, and more ding resistant.

Or, buy the cores from Les. Frankly, it takes quite a bit of time, effort, and wasted foam to make a set of cores for the Genie.

my two cents....
-Keith

[ScottLister]

Well guys I have a cnc cutter and a cnc router so getting the cores cut is not a problem, Getting the hiload is. I contacted Dow and the nearest place to get it is 5 hours oneway. I may order a set from Les if I can't find any.

I agree about doing things the right way.

Scott

[harleym]

The strength in the bagged Genie line wing tip sections, with no spar, is dependent on the combination of overall carbon skin and the 60 pound foam. I don't consider using some combination of balsa and less dense foam suited to getting the high stress launch capability or the anticipated ruggedness. The Easy LT/S with 1/16" skins is not in the same ballpark as the other ships, but does launch and zoom better than anticipated. 25 pound foam and 1/32" balsa seems wimpy to me. . .just an opinion, not backed by any experience.

[averen]

I'm not sure how quickly you need the foam, but I can get HiLoad 60 in San Antonio. I go down there fairly often and I can bring back a sheet and cut it up and ship it to you if you can't get a hold of it locally. They run about $20 a sheet for 2'x8'x2", I believe you can get the entire wing out of one sheet. I can't remember what the length of the longest panel on the Genie is, but I could cut it a little over that and pack it all up. It would probably be about 2 months before I could get it to you though. But if you still have fuse work to do that shouldn't be THAT big of a deal :) You can also order SpyderFoam online which I believe is also 60 PSI and somewhat lighter than HiLoad 60...but I'm not completely sure about this.

I know it sucks because you have your own CNC, but getting it from Les might be your easiest/best option.

Jared

[KevinSharbonda]

The Corning pink foam equivelant is Foamular 600 as well!
Scott, maybe I could get some to you in trade for some cnc'd cores?

[averen]

The thickest I've found Foamular 600 locally is .75"...there are probably others out there...but I haven't seen it any thicker.

Jared

[KevinSharbonda]

Standard sheets I get = 1-1/2" and 2'x8' from local wholesaler! He pretty much has any and all the foams at different times! Got HiLoad and Foamular! Also have some hard to find sheets of 40 psi called Foamular 400! Most all are square edge.

[Hoot]

Chris,
I think I am still in line for a Corndogger kit from you. I've now changed my mind. Please send me the Genie instead !
Steve Gibson
Houston, TX

[JustPlaneChris]

Chris,
I think I am still in line for a Corndogger kit from you. I've now changed my mind. Please send me the Genie instead !
Steve Gibson
Houston, TXSteve, you're a very funny man. :p Let's see, it took me almost a year and a half to build the first Genie... how long you figure the second one would take? :rolleyes:

I guess for the right price, one could always get the "Iron Lady". ;)

-Chris

[ScottLister]

The strength in the bagged Genie line wing tip sections, with no spar, is dependent on the combination of overall carbon skin and the 60 pound foam. I don't consider using some combination of balsa and less dense foam suited to getting the high stress launch capability or the anticipated ruggedness. The Easy LT/S with 1/16" skins is not in the same ballpark as the other ships, but does launch and zoom better than anticipated. 25 pound foam and 1/32" balsa seems wimpy to me. . .just an opinion, not backed by any experience.

Thanks Harley, I will go with the hiload 60 foam but I am also going to build an easy LT/S wing. I will stick to the script!!!

Scott

[ScottLister]

Kevin, The cnc foam cutter belongs to a friend of a friend who has offered to cut some cores for me. If the center section was smaller I considered milling them on my cnc router but it isn't quite large enough.

I finally got the fuse shaped and sanded last night. Today I will build the rudder and horizontal stabs.


Scott

[ScottLister]

Guys, I am ready to fiberglass the fuse and have a question. I have a quart of polyester resin, the directions call for finishing resin. I know there is a difference with epoxy, but is there a difference with polyester resin as well?

When fiberglassing do you apply all layers at once and then feather the edges or feather out each layer?

Thanks
Scott

[JustPlaneChris]

Scott, I chose to put all the layers on at once (using 3M 77 spray glue) then wet it all out with epoxy laminating resin. I just can't stand the smell of polyester! I think this is now an optional method in Harley's instructions.

If you go for polyester resin, you definitely want to use finishing resin. Regular polyester resin will stay sticky, or get a waxy surface. Finishing resin cures to a sandable "normal" finish.

-Chris

[ScottLister]

Chris, I got a quart of the bondo general purpose resin. This contains wax so it will cure w/o being sticky. Is this alright to use?

Scott

[JustPlaneChris]

I don't know, Scott. If I were you I'd make up a test piece and give it a try before I did it on the actual fuselage! You may find the general purpose resin to be too thick... but that's just a guess. Try it on some scrap first and see how it sands out and how it takes paint.

-Chris

[ScottLister]

Thanks Chris. I may drive the 2 hours to the hobby store and get what Harley calls for.

Scott

[John Lueke]

Scott

I have been flying a Genie LT/S with the easy wing since this spring and have been happy with its strength. I did add spanwise unidirectional carbon fiber to the wingtips to add some strength. The only negative is that I seem to have gotten some of the new improved nonstick monokote and I am tired of maintaining it. I am getting another set of cores ready to bag a carbon wing, so my plan is to strip the monokote off of the center section and bag some 2 oz cloth to it to practice the bagging process. If all goes well I will have two good Genie wings

[ScottLister]

John, I have bagged many wing for dlg's so bagging isn't a problem for me. I just need to find the right foam or order the cores cut from les. I am going to cut a set of cores for the easy lt/s this week. This will give me something to work on in the meantime. How does the easy lt/s handle he strong winch launches?

Scott

[John Lueke]

Scott

I have been launching it on a club winch that may not be quite as strong as some competition winches with no concerns. I am not any good at zooms, so I can't testify on how well it would hold up to a hard zoom.

[Bryan Quick]

They can take it. They launch very high. I'm thinking of building one after I build a Supra.

[ScottLister]

I will try to post some pics of the fuse before I glass it. I must say this is one of the most enjoyable scratch builds I have done in a long time.

Scott

[ScottLister]

Well I finally found some 2" dow hi load 60 foam!!!! The place that carried it was just over 86 miles away (one way). They had over 900 sheets instock and the price was $15.25/sheet I bought 3 sheets and may go back for some more next month. So I guess I will build the lt/s wing after all. Life is good.

Scott