Bae Hawk By Haoye [Archive]

FliKwik

Jun 23, 2007, 01:50 AM

I've just finished and maidened my hawk. I've only done one circuit with it so far but it seems to fly quite nicely. I only had one minor misshap when one of the wheels fell off on takeoff. It was my own fault as I didnt glue on the things that keep the wheels on and I'd been taxying round building up courage to take off for a while.

I think ali's being a bit optimistic suggesting to use a 60amp esc as mine seems to pull 60amps at just over half throttle with full throttle at about 100amps. I only have a 60amp esc on but I'm hoping with a bit of offloading in flight it may only draw around 80amps, which is the burst rating on my esc.

I'm not an expert but if you need advice on your build please ask specific questions and I'll try my best to help.

Bigplumbs

Jun 23, 2007, 01:57 AM

reylf_gnijieB

Jun 23, 2007, 02:02 AM

The manual is "Chinglish." Haoye is a Chinese company. I've met them; they are very nice people.

I read Chinese. I sometimes help Haoye straighten out some of their translations. If you have a few specific questions, PM me. I will talk to them about this manual.

FliKwik

Jun 23, 2007, 05:15 AM

Ok guys. I flew again this morning. Just a few gentle circuits was the plan. After a nice easy takeoff into a gentle wind she was flying really nice, very easy to handle.

On about my fourth circuit I heard the motor suddenly cut out and a great plume of smoke started billowing out of the back. Now I have to admit it did look pretty cool coming back in with thick white smoke coming out the back, just like a real one I thaught as it touched down. Then the seriousness of the situation kicked in, with it sitting on the runway making sizzling noises and still piling smoke out I didnt dare go near it incase it was the lipos on fire or something.

Eventually the smoke started to clear so I approched the model, pulled the canopy off, diconnected the batteries and looked down inside to see a black mess where the esc used to be. I gave the wires a tug and it came straight out a charred mess as you can see from the photos. I then tested the batteries which were still showing a good 11.8 volts. Phew!!

I guess it could have been worse, I was lucky the bec carried on working long enough for me to land but it is a bit frustrating when I'd been on the phone yesterday to Al's Hobbies voicing my concerns about the high amp draw and was told it would probably unload during flight and be ok.

I was using the stock motor with a large Medusa heat sink, a dualsky 60amp esc with 2 Hextronic 2200mah 20c 3 cell lipos. Which is pretty much what the ad on Als Hobbies reccomends.

I would say to anyone else whos building one to check out how many amps its pulling before putting it together. It may just be a faulty motor or esc but it may also be a bad electronics setup. I'm now £50 worse off for the speed control and I've got a dirty great hole in my model.

monkamarm2000

Jun 23, 2007, 05:21 AM

ok so note to self, fans and planes bad, got it! haha

Barry

FliKwik

Jun 23, 2007, 05:53 AM

Thanks for that. Very helpfull.

pentaxman

Jun 23, 2007, 08:04 AM

FliKwik

So you had a 100A motor
2 x 44A 3S packs =88A (I assume you used them as a 3S2P)
and a 60A ESC?

That ESC was not going to last unless you kept below 50% throttle which would have cooked it with the switching anyway.
Even allowing for off loading in flight, I doubt you would loose 20A which would still be over the ESC rating anyway.
If you get a 100A ESC you will overcook your Lipo's, because the system is not matched.
If you get another ESC, I would go right through your set up and look for any places that could cause excessive current draw & remedy the errors ie fan rubbing ect.
Did you balance the fan before use?
The red nosed fans are allegedly really difficult to get to balance correctly.

I would look to fit a lipo or combination of lipos that will supply 120% of the expected draw (120A in the above case) and the same with ESC, that is assuming the motor is capable of withstanding 100A in the first place.

kelberts

Jun 23, 2007, 08:49 AM

I always assume lipos and ESCs to be no more than 75% of the claimed capacity.

Also, with a foam airframe, if you mount the ESC right on foam, you've essentially insulated that side from cooling - (Just like a foam picnic cooler) -

FliKwik

Jun 23, 2007, 09:12 AM

Thanks for the infos and advice.

I dont know how many amps the motor is as it came with the kit without any info on it. I had the batteries wired as 3s2p.

I did have my doubts about the setup and like I said I rang Al's hobbies before I even glued the thing together. I told them the fan was rubbing on the case slightly. They told me just to run it for a while untill it wore down. I didnt do this. Instead I dremmeled the places where it was rubbing untill it looked like it wasnt making contact anymore.

The fan itself was way out of balance so I tried to get it as close as I could by putting tape on the inside of the centre part and shaving bits off the webbing on the opposite side.

During the flight I kept it at not much more than half throttle or less. With one short blast of full throttle.

FliKwik

Jun 23, 2007, 11:51 AM

I've looked through the instructions again and the recommended motor is a 1800kv run on 22.2 volts. The motor that came with the kit for 11.1v was 4800kv according to the sticker on it.

Surely if I'm using half the voltage I should need a 3600kv motor??

pentaxman

Jun 23, 2007, 03:14 PM

FliKwik

Sorry but motors do not quite work that simply.

A lot depends on the impeller, battery supply, motor & esc.
Looks like you have some research & testing to do.
Did you get a current draw figure with the motor Kv & voltage, or would that be the 60A you were mentioning?

If yes, then
input wattage is 22.2x60 = 1332watts
motor speed is 1800x22.2 = 39960 rpm

Your system
input wattage is 11.1x100 = 1110watts
motor speed 4800x11.1 = 53280rpm

This would suggest your system has too big a diameter fan or pitch since I doubt it is able to reach that speed with a lower power input.

Reflex1

Jun 23, 2007, 07:07 PM

From
http://www.alshobbies.com/shop/lookupstock.php?pc=7361&Desc=hawk

Batteries Required: 3300-4500mAh Li-Po 11.1v
Speed Controller Required: 60amp
Motor: Ducted Fan & Brushless Motor included

I'd say
V=10V (Batts under load)
Lets say 50A Max at full throttle (allowing "headroom" for the recommended 60A esc)

Power input 500W Max
Sounds reasonable for a model this size

Given the Motor and Fan were supplied with the model
and it was ran on the stated Volts (web page)
It's possible you were either supplied with an incorrect Motor or Fan
OR Severe Fan rubbing caused the High Currents quoted.

Paul

monkamarm2000

Jun 23, 2007, 08:26 PM

even at stated specs there pushing it, but they wouldn't know that, so no surprise. 50 plus amp range is toward the high side of longevity in a good 480 class motor even, let alone if it's a bad motor in a bad fan.

Barry

FliKwik

Jun 24, 2007, 08:39 AM

Thanks. I feel I've got a bit of ammo now for when I call Al's hobbies.

I think I'm going to pitch for an entire new plane and esc since if its an incorrect fan or motor its going to be very difficult to get either out without damaging the plane further. Having that unintentional melted service hatch may help a bit but that shouldnt be there anyway.

If I'm successful I will do away with the standard fan and motor and if I could trouble you guys to point me in the right direction for alternatives I would be very gratefull.

I only have 3cell batteries but I would definately be up for trying them wired for 6cell.

Ed Waldrep

Jun 24, 2007, 12:17 PM

What size fan is it? 90mm or 70mm?

FliKwik

Jun 24, 2007, 12:29 PM

Its a 90mm

Ed Waldrep

Jun 24, 2007, 12:35 PM

Well a 4800 kv motor would be more for a 70 mm fan or smaller, a 90mm fan on 5S is more like 1800 or around that. A 3S would need a higher kv but getting to 100 watts on 3S means amps in the high 90s and that's not kind to the batteries, especially cheaper batteries like the Himodel.

Is it the Haoye fan, lots of blades with a lot of pitch? Looks like an amp hog, maybe it'll work but you'd need a lower kv motor for the same amp draw vs other fans.

My 51" long 6lb F-18 setup:
Wemotec Midifan 90mm
Mega 22/30/2
5S 5000 Thunder Power Extreme
62 amps, 1150 watts
105 mph straight and level, slower because of no gear doors, decent performance. Higher S setups with lower kv motor would give more power, just have to find the right motor.

monkamarm2000

Jun 24, 2007, 12:39 PM

yeah ED there running not only a 90mm, but a over pitched 90mm like a mega 2t in a minifan.

Barry

FliKwik

Jun 24, 2007, 12:59 PM

Thanks Ed That sounds good. I looked up the midifan and theres a uk supplier selling them at £38.

What sort of kv motor do you think I would need for 6 cell with that fan? I dont really want to buy any more batteries. I've got plenty of 3 cell I could wire up for 6 cell but I dont have any 5cell.

Your own setup sounds real nice. Have you got any vids?

FliKwik

Jun 24, 2007, 04:28 PM

How about a hacker B50-15L in a midifan?

Or a Medusa 36-50-1600?

FliKwik

Jun 27, 2007, 03:26 PM

I spoke to Al's hobbies today and although the guy I spoke to on friday didnt appear to exist anymore, I managed to get a new plane out of them. Not after being blamed for it. They even had the cheek to suggest I go back to the people I got the esc from and tell them it broke at 60amps and get a new one, implying thats what I was doing to them.

Not totaly happy but at least this gives me the opportunity to build a proper one with a decent ammount of power and quality components.

JIMinKENTUCKY

Jun 30, 2007, 09:15 PM

I purchased mine from United Hobbies. Same
item # as the one at Al's Hobbies so I assume it is the same hawk.
https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4954

Mine came with an outrunner motor already installed to the fan. I did not see any sticker on the motor showing KV.

I bench tested the motor/fan with a 3s4500 pack.
Maximum amps were 33 with well over 300 watts.

You can see where blades rubbed a little but that was my fault. I was holding too tightly while slowly running the fan.
It actually runs smoothly and seems well balanced.

Jim

Ed Waldrep

Jul 01, 2007, 04:00 PM

Thanks for the fan pic Jim. At 300 watts that big bird wont set any speed records but I guess it'll fly it. Have you put your Hawk together yet? From what I remember from pics posted a long time ago, the area right behind the inlets inside the duct rose up really sharply on the bottom, I think with the intention of making the wing saddle consistantly thick, braced for a 9.0 earthquake! Cutting that area down some to increase the radius of the curve and take material away to lower the intake restriction might be a good idea. I don't if it would help improve performance. I don't recall any flight reports on this bird from a year or so ago when it first showed up except for one, and that was Easytiger with a Toki fan...it didn't fly very well or at all, but I've seen the Toki struggle in other models, fast taxi but no fly or flies very wimpily limping around the pattern.

JIMinKENTUCKY

Jul 01, 2007, 07:18 PM

I also have the Sapac Hawk which is about the same size with 400 watts and from 3/4 throttle on up the plane doesn't go any faster. Draggy airframe I guess.

Given this I figure I will just use the stock fan/motor on the Haoye Hawk at 300 and some watts.

Anyway, I will start on it soon and post some pictures and my results.

Jim

monkamarm2000

Jul 02, 2007, 01:48 AM

yeah lot of these fans top out at just after take off, watch the toki like Ed said, they peak just on wheels up then go same speed all the way around. 200 to 300 watts in 70mm you can notice, but 300 to 500 in a 90mm is just a small jump, usually just a few mph after wheels up.

Barry

Ed Waldrep

Jul 02, 2007, 10:54 AM

My Sapac Hawk with the MF480/Mega 2 turn 500 watt combo was clocked at about 70 mph straight aan level. Modded the ducting but adding center walls to keep the area more constant, if there was a speed jump it was small, maybe 5 mph, there should have been less drag like this, but with the wheels being fixed, the drag held the speed back. I could have added retracts but it would have been some work and it'd still be a flimsy foamy. Upgrading the fan was a pain, would have went with a 65mm fan if I could have found one but a fan that size that will take 500 watts is hard to find so I went with the MF480...I just had to hog some foam out...and upgrade the pushrods, and totatly redesign the elevator servo mount. A smaller fan might have been easier but you still can't get to the fan once you put the elevator servo in, not if you have a longer than stock motor. Narrow minded design it is.

FliKwik

Jul 05, 2007, 07:52 PM

I've decided to have a play around with the damaged hawk while I think what to do with the replacement airframe. I've cut out the melted bit and will make another bit to fit out of some foam I have.

I found a midi fan in a cassified ad on the bmfa website for £25 and was hoping to fit the rotor from it into the standard unit, but it seems like its a tight fit so the standard rotor will have to do. I can save the wemotec for the other one.

The motor I'm going to try is a medusa 28-56-1400 which is the same weight and dimensions as the standard motor so it should still balance out ok with my 2 2200 3 cells up front. The only difference with this setup will be that the batteries will be wired in series. I dont like the idea of trying another of the haoye motors after my first experience, plus the medusa isn't that much more money.

Hopeully this setup shouldnt be too power hungry and will give me chance to play around with the setup on the rest of the model so I know what I'm doing when I build the other one. One mod I would definatly like to do on the other one is to mount the elevator servo inside the fuse and not in the rudder as the instructions say.

Ed. The idea of removing some material from the intake sounds like a good one. The intake is quite steep and theres a fair bit of foam that could probably be removed.

FliKwik

Jul 10, 2007, 05:45 PM

Got the new motor fitted and tested. Shes pulling 30amps now with the medusa running on a cheapo 60amp oem esc and 6 cell lipos.

Flew this evening, had to hand launch due to one of the back wheels snapping off when it hit a pot hole. Other than that the flight was great, much faster than before which confirms in my mind that it was definately a faulty motor that caused my earlier problems. It seems nice and stable in normal flight, I didnt try any aerobatics as it was quite windy, I'll try to push it a bit if we get some better weather. If I get chance next time I'll get some video too.

Reflex1

Jul 12, 2007, 05:41 PM

600W sounds good
any signs of the motor overheating ?

although the weather has been so poor ,I doubt you have flown it much :rolleyes:

Anyone for Summer ;)

matt.savill

Jul 14, 2007, 05:39 PM

Hy, i have one from Haoye, but i have no manual for it. There are some Wood pieces, but i have no idea what i have to do with they. Can you send the "jenglish" manual or post it on this thread.
I would build in an Wmeotec MiniFan 480 with an HET 2W (20) Motor.

Hi I am new to EDF (and this forum) but have been flying large electrics for a long while though, i have just got a Haoye BAE Hawk and am struggling with the instructions. can you tell me how you fixed the actual EDF unit inside the fusalage, also does the EDF unit need an exhaust tube. Also I how do you run the wire from the motor to the ESC? Is it OK to just double back past the fan unit into the cockpit.

matt.savill

Jul 15, 2007, 10:34 AM

Hi I am new to EDF (and this forum) but have been flying large electrics for a long while though, i have just got a Haoye BAE Hawk and am struggling with the instructions. can you tell me how you fixed the actual EDF unit inside the fusalage, also does the EDF unit need an exhaust tube. Also I how do you run the wire from the motor to the ESC? Is it OK to just double back past the fan unit into the cockpit

ditchit

Jul 23, 2007, 11:42 AM

How you getting on Matt? I just got this model myself. If you look in the instructions (linked earlier in the thread) you will see where the fan should be mounted. There are no fittings for it so you will have to fabricate something yourself. Looks like a 90mm fan is what is required. If the fan has plastic rails then they would fit nicely into slots cut into top and bottom side of the fuselage halves. Difficult part is deciding how far back it should go. I'm going 5S with mine so I'm thinking 50% to 66% back from the most forward position detailed in the instructions. I cant figure out the aileron connections yet. It's a bit of a jigsaw puzzle this one but not surprising considering how much I paid for it.

ditchit

Aug 25, 2007, 12:44 PM

Maiden flight today and despite a couple of problems on the first 2 bungee assisted launches the third flight was OK except for some receiver glitches. Running on FlyFly 90mm fan, 1800Kv motor, Flight Power 5S3700 and Hyperion 80A OPTO ESC. Sweet little jet if painted up nicely. Building another this week.

EDIT: Updated with some onboard footage...chasing down a bandit ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVydpggFdJs

LimtedEdition

Aug 27, 2007, 10:54 AM

How on earth is it pulling 100 amps what lipo are you using with how many cells ?

80+ not 60A ESC was suggested as supplied mototr cains current

gunracer

Aug 27, 2007, 10:21 PM

ditchit,

thanks for the video...entertaining as always...it's a nice looking model...

steve1814

Sep 07, 2007, 03:06 PM

I've decided to have a play around with the damaged hawk while I think what to do with the replacement airframe. I've cut out the melted bit and will make another bit to fit out of some foam I have.

<snip>

Ed. The idea of removing some material from the intake sounds like a good one. The intake is quite steep and theres a fair bit of foam that could probably be removed.

So what ever happened?

I am curious as I just got my Hawk in the mail today. Mind if I ask you a couple of questions:

Where did you locate your fan? The "instructions" are gray in that area.
What servos did you use?
Did you hook up the rudder?

Thanks,
Steve

FliKwik

Sep 11, 2007, 02:17 AM

I'm afraid it all went pete tong on about the fourth flight with my hawk. I had got used to the handling and was doing some nice low full throttle passes over the runway. On my third pass I had it lined up beautifully, throttle wide open about ten feet up directly over the runway, the nose started to pull up slightly so i tried to push it down but nothing happened so I tried dropping the throttle, still nothing. My model is now at full throttle and completely out of my control. It arced up into the sky stalled, came straight back down still at full throttle and exploded into a thousand pieces onto the runway. I cant say I wasnt slightly disappointed.

I think the problem was either a noisy cheapo esc or the crystal maybe vibrated out of the reciever. I'll be spending a bit more cash on my next attempt by using a better quality fan, esc, reciever and servos. Hopefully it should last a bit longer than the last one.

Steve,

My setup was done on the cheap using tower pro servos, they seem to do the job ok but on my next one I'll be using hitec hs65hb for performance and reliability.

The fan location depends on how your plane balances. Put it all together including battery, motor, esc everything but without glueing and move the fan around back and forth untill the centre of gravity is in the place the instructions suggest.

I didnt hook up the rudder as it seemed like a lot of hassle for something that would be fairly ineffective in flight. I did however put a servo in the landing gear which is really cool for taxying around but beware, any rough surfaces can easily snap it.

Hope this helps http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

steve1814

Sep 11, 2007, 02:40 AM

Steve,

My setup was done on the cheap using tower pro servos, they seem to do the job ok but on my next one I'll be using hitec hs65hb for performance and reliability.

The fan location depends on how your plane balances. Put it all together including battery, motor, esc everything but without glueing and move the fan around back and forth untill the centre of gravity is in the place the instructions suggest.

I didnt hook up the rudder as it seemed like a lot of hassle for something that would be fairly ineffective in flight. I did however put a servo in the landing gear which is really cool for taxying around but beware, any rough surfaces can easily snap it.

Hope this helps http://static.rcgroups.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

FliKwik,

Thanks for the information, it is indeed helpful. Sorry to hear about your last flight. :(

I take it then that you are going to buy another one.

Steve

FliKwik

Sep 18, 2007, 05:24 PM

Already got one steve. just started building it. Heres some pics...

FliKwik

Sep 18, 2007, 05:35 PM

80+ not 60A ESC was suggested as supplied mototr cains current

If your refering to als hobbies recommended setup, it has been changed from 60 to 80 since my first build.

ditchit

Sep 18, 2007, 06:24 PM

It's a wicked model. Not terrifically fast but easy to put together. I didnt like the aileron servo personally. I buried a servo in each wing half. Problem was though that I didnt mount the elevator servo as well and when coming out of a high speed dive chasing a friends Kyosho F-16 nothing happened when I pulled back on the stick. Made for a very entertaining moment at our Club BBQ last weekend when it exploded into 50 pieces all over the grass runway...

...just as well I have a spare to put together. :rolleyes:

LimtedEdition

Nov 05, 2007, 11:19 AM

DOes anybody no what the stock motor full spec is?? i have one model number hy-b2855 i think, maybe b2885, cant remember. I cant find the spec any where, says its 4800kv, anyone help here please?
Thanks Jon

gunracer

Dec 12, 2007, 05:09 PM

is this the same model?...for $75 (includes heavy duty fan), i'm thinking of getting one...

http://www.sonicelectric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EDF-RedArrow&Category_Code=EFoam&Product_Count=2

steve1814

Dec 12, 2007, 05:55 PM

Yes, it is the same one. I have one of these that I bought the "Heavy Duty" fan for as well (7 blade Haoye). It has a 5mm shaft so your motor selection is.....

Well, Danny (the onwer of sonicelectric) has a B36-6 turn, 2200KV 5mm shaft motor that he has in one of these and has a video for. The thing really scoots... The motor hasn't be posted to the site yet, but if you contact him he'll quote you a price.

I haven't made my decision yet..too many other projects going on, but let us know if you do purchase it what you are going to power it with.

Cheers,
Steve

is this the same model?...for $75 (includes heavy duty fan), i'm thinking of getting one...

http://www.sonicelectric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EDF-RedArrow&Category_Code=EFoam&Product_Count=2

gunracer

Dec 12, 2007, 06:05 PM

thanks steve...does the sonic kit include landing gear?...also, it that video posted anywhere?...

steve1814

Dec 12, 2007, 06:14 PM

thanks steve...does the sonic kit include landing gear?...also, it that video posted anywhere?...

Nope.

I did contact the manufacturer about getting a set (they look scale) but the cost...uuuugggh. Not worth it.

I got a set of the UH one instead

http://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/catalog/HY025-01001.jpg

Figure I'll cut them down to size.

Cheers,
Steve

steve1814

Dec 14, 2007, 03:06 AM

Thanks steve...does the sonic kit include landing gear?...also, it that video posted anywhere?...

Video as requested:

BAE Hawk with Sonic Eletric HD fan and B36-6 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMMNtAu44U) (2 min 6 sec)

Not the best quality, but you get the idea

alan_derby

Feb 11, 2008, 06:28 PM

Hi All,

I have just purchased one of these from Al's Hobbies, they have been reduced in price but supplied without stock motor & fan for £20 + Postage. I was not bothered about the fan & motor as building the plane with Brushless pusher...

Setup as follows....

PPO-3530-1400 - 1400kv, 10wind, 340watt, 30Amp max Brushless Outrunner
PP-ESC30A - 30 Amp Brushless Speed Controller
2200mAh 3S1P or 2200mAh 3S2P **dependant on AUW**
APC 8X6E Prop
Hitec HS81MG for all moving tail plane
GWS 18g park servo for ailerons
Esky 6 channel 35mhz receiver

I am currently in the build process and I must say that I am liking the kit very much when considering the price and also the low cost good components available currently. I have noticed that all the models here currently use the EDF setup, has anyone set this model up with the pusher option??

If so how was it and what was your power choice??

My fus is almost complete but I am looking for better ways of setting up the ailerons as I dont like the way the manufacturer suggests they are done!! Anyone have any suggestions/pictures of how you have done yours??

I have included some pictures of my build in progress....any comments or suggestions are welcome...

Kind Regards
Alan :) :cool:

gunracer

Feb 11, 2008, 07:44 PM

looking good alan...what undercarriage are you using?

mine's still in the box...i've got the stock 5 blade 90mm fan, the haoye 7 blade 90mm and 7 blade 75mm i need to experiment with before building...

ditchit

Feb 12, 2008, 12:55 AM

I put a servo in each wing. Piece of cake really.

alan_derby

Feb 12, 2008, 03:02 AM

Gunracer...

Not using any landing gear as the flying field will not allow for something like this, the flying field is ok for ROG with the bigger models though...

Ditchit...

Any chance of seeing some pictures of your wing servo configuration, where have you placed them ect...I thought about putting them in the wing on the under side but with me belly landing I was worried about them getting torn out of the foam...

Thanks,
Alan

ditchit

Feb 12, 2008, 03:12 AM

Alan - Apologies....cant help you out with a picture as the Hawk is no more. At a club BBQ I was making a high speed pass from high altitude...I pulled back on the sticks and the elevator servo pulled out of the foam and the model exploded into the ground in front of everyone. Not a lot left.

Each wing half has a top and bottom from memory. I am fairly sure that I glued the servo to the inside of the top part of each wing half with the horn protruding through a small slit in the top of the wing half. Added balsa stick either side of the servo to hold it in place after wrapping the servo in masking tape.

You'll find my Hawk video on YouTube under my alias 'Ditchit'.

I've got a spare under my bed actually...I'm going to make that a pusher. They go much faster than the EDF equivalent. I'll just use the motor for the 90mm fan on 6S. Should go like stink.

FresnoJay

Feb 12, 2008, 03:28 AM

Gunracer, Where can I get the Haoye 75mm fan?

Jason

alan_derby

Feb 12, 2008, 03:30 AM

Yeah I have seen the video, great viewing by the way...

The latest kits from Al's have the bottom skin already in place which has kinda made me put the thinking cap on. The easiest solution is to just place the servos on the top section just behind the ailerons with direct connection from each servo but I am hoping to conseal them as I would sooner not have them on show....lol not that you would see them at 50ft away....

ditchit

Feb 12, 2008, 03:32 AM

NO! NO! NO! Aggghhhhh :eek:

Don't whatever you do get a Haoye fan. They are terrible. I had 2 and could not get them to balance. As cheap are the Airpower fans. Very good quality. Goto www.airpowernet.com. Price for the 90mm/motor combo is good to.

simonslim

Feb 12, 2008, 06:40 AM

Hi Alan, I have 1 of these as a pusher and it is totally ballistic. I bought a motor esc combo from BRC HOBBIES which is the HiModel A2814-6T and a Fly 33 amp esc for £35.99. I use 2x 2200mah 20c lipos wired to give me 4400mah, Waypiont mg servo for elevator and ailerons. I hand launch at about 2/3 throttle and then go vertical at 3/4 throttle, this thing is very over powered :cool: She likes to be flown fast and looks great fast and low and it doesn't half howl. I'll nip out and get some pics off my motor mount as the way I have it there is a nice through flow of air.

Simon.

alan_derby

Feb 12, 2008, 07:02 AM

Simon,

Just checked the specs on your motor and pretty much the same as the one I am installing, I paid about the same for my combo from 4 Max @ http://www.4-max.co.uk/index.htm

What flight duration are you getting with the 2 packs???

Sounds like I am in for some fun...lol, I also like flying fast so a good combination all round. I take it the wings are holding out will all the excess power!!

Looking forward to seeing the pics, how have you done your ailerons....???

Many thanks,

Alan

simonslim

Feb 12, 2008, 07:04 AM

Here's the pic's. The mount is a Hyperion aluminium stick mount which is more than strong enough. I made a level depron full width plate and packed the underneath with balsa and depron then I epoxied a 10mm x 10mm stick to the plate and sandwiched it with depron then cut two small holes in the side of the fuse to get a small screw driver in to screw the mount, with the motor already fitted, to the stick. There is no twisting at all when power is applied and this motor, esc and a 9x6 apc e produces about 350 w at full throttle.

Simon.

simonslim

Feb 12, 2008, 07:11 AM

Hi Alan, I fly for about 8 mins, to save my lipos from to much punishment. My wings, as you can see from the last pic, parted company with the fuse at one stage so I beefed it up abit, probably went over board abit but its not going to come off there again. I have used a single servo for my ailerons but I am planning on putting one for each aileron.

Simon.

ditchit

Feb 12, 2008, 07:21 AM

Any video Simon? Would be interesting to compare against EDF...

simonslim

Feb 12, 2008, 07:26 AM

I do have abit of video, but its long and I dont know how to go about editing it.

Simon.

alan_derby

Feb 12, 2008, 07:55 AM

Thanks for the pictures and information, you have given me some idea as to how it will perform and also identified a weak point on the leading edge of the wing to fus...I was thinking of a couple of short dowels just for extra strenght..

Like the idea of the motor mount, i didnt like the one that came with the kit hense the production of the light ply plate. With the hole I have made in the plate I think this will be enough to let air through, may consider a cheat hole under the rear fus if the air flow slows the plane down. I will post more pictures as my build progresses...

gunracer

Feb 12, 2008, 09:59 AM

NO! NO! NO! Aggghhhhh :eek:

Don't whatever you do get a Haoye fan. They are terrible. I had 2 and could not get them to balance...

interesting...i've got 9 haoye fans and only a couple required minor balancing...

i'm hoping to get to this model in the next few weeks...i'm looking at trying one of the ammo inrunners in the 90mm fan...if it doesn't work out, i'll give one of the het motors a try...

alan_derby

Feb 12, 2008, 06:08 PM

Well managed to spend a couple more hours on the hawk this evening and made some progress, got the motor fitted and tested...and all working fine! I am looking forward to the maiden with this one...lol

Checked the CG and balance is looking good with the 2 lipo packs up front, stuck a few stickers on and painted the fin (Could have done with a darker blue but never mind, all i could get my hands on today).

Some more pictures of the build progress...

gunracer

Feb 12, 2008, 06:48 PM

looks good alan...those packs look like the loongmax variety...interested to find out what her auw comes out to...it'll give me an idea of what edf setup i may need...

what paint did you use on your motor mount plate?...it looks like a good match for the stock color...

simonslim

Feb 12, 2008, 07:42 PM

Gunracer, my auw weight was 37oz with 2 x 2200mah 3s lipos. Alan your plane is looking sweet.

Simon.

alan_derby

Feb 13, 2008, 01:13 PM

Thanks Gunracer & Simon for your comments..I am itching to have this bird ready so hopefully get an hour or so in the workshop tonight!!

The lipos are from a Hong Kong supplier on ebay and I have been getting them for around £12 posted, purchased 10 in total so far..thats nearly an hours worth of flying with the hawk..Details and link to lipos/seller below

New EC POWER 2200mAh 11.1v 25C Li-Poly Battery akkus E
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-EC-POWER-2200mAh-11-1v-25C-Li-Poly-Battery-akkus-E_W0QQitemZ280200439966QQihZ018QQcategoryZ34056QQs sPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I would think that my AUW will be simular to Simons..I will post once I know. As for the paint it's the foam sprays from BRC hobbies, url below..

http://www.brchobbies.co.uk/?page=shop&action=additem&item=239

Regards,
Alan

alan_derby

Feb 13, 2008, 07:12 PM

Morning All,

Well made some progress this evening and burnt some midnight oil also..lol

Decided to mount two 9gram servos on the top section of the wing, hinged both ailerons and connected one of the servos up and movement is good. Installed both the wing mounting plates and incorporated some captive nuts in the ply, I was and still am considering making the wing a perminent fixture though with the servos being outside the fus to give the airframe more strength.

Will post some pics of the aileron setup on friday...

gunracer

Feb 13, 2008, 10:30 PM

to get a feel for her size, i mocked her up tonight next to a gws a4...since they're similar in size, she might be ok with a 75mm fan...if so, i could maybe improve the intake with some sort of ramp...what do you guys think?...

FresnoJay

Feb 14, 2008, 03:49 AM

That might help out there Gunracer. Has to be better than it sits stock wise. Good size to the plane too. Good luck Gunracer.

Jason

alan_derby

Feb 15, 2008, 04:58 PM

Evening all,

Well making loads of progress with the hawk, just got some canopy work to do and some final touching up around the airframe with some red paint. C of G is spot on without the need of any extra weight. Not sure on the AUW as of yet as my scales only weigh up to 500 grams so I will let you all know ASAP.

Powered up the motor with the airframe in hand and see no problem at all in launching the hawk underarm with the power it's developing!

Pictures of the build progress below....

alan_derby

Feb 15, 2008, 05:14 PM

Also someone may be interested out there, I have a EDF hawk which I am thinking of selling if the right price is offered. I have attached a picture of the hawk below....

It is a very well made fibreglass fus with carbon fibre in areas where extra strength is required. The fus has been primed as you can see and the wings and all moving tailplane is vaneered covered foam which has also been glassed and primed. The aliminium wing tubes ect are all in place and holes have been prepared for wing mounted servos, some ply formers have been installed. The all moving tailplane components are 85% done so only little work required here. It comes with fibreglass intake sections and rear ducting sections. Not sure of the company whom makes it but I do have an extensive manual/build instructions for the model. The canopy has a fibreglass frame with a clear canopy insert. The model was designed around the kyosho and the Wemotec HW609 unit. The model does come in a box with some balsa and ply parts...but will require some balsa parts ect to finish.

This really is a good quality model kit but I have had it a year now and done nothing with it, someone could make a really nice near scale hawk out of this kit and if you are interested and would like more details then please contact me...I am willing to post overseas as long as postage is covered by the buyer!!

Thanks,

Alan

Finaly found the manufacturer after loads of surfing the net, you can also see the full specs of the kit...

http://eam.net/EAMRC/skunkworks/Goshawk/Goshawk.htm

gunracer

Feb 15, 2008, 11:16 PM

looking good alan...i like the aileron servos placement...i was thinking of maybe using torque rods for a cleaner look...i'm starting to collect the electronics for the model...does anyone have any experience with the below motor?...i'm thinking of trying it in the 90mm fan on 5 cells...

chinehamgeorge

Feb 16, 2008, 05:24 PM

Hi Gunracer

The motor in the picture looks very like the motors I sell and they are not outrunners in a can, they are just inrunners.
http://www.4-max.co.uk/ppi-3657.htm

I do sell outrunners in a can but they look a bit different
http://www.4-max.co.uk/pph-400.htm

I just hope they posted the wrong picture against the text.

Cheers n beers
George

leederby

Feb 19, 2008, 09:46 AM

hello all im new to this so you might have to give me chance to get sorted put thought id post the lataest pics of my hawk build.

ditchit

Feb 19, 2008, 11:07 AM

Looks good. Just make sure that the mounting of the elevator servo in the foam fuselage can withstand the forces that will be applied to it. Mine got pulled at the bottom of a high speed dive. Needless to say it didn't pull up :(

leederby

Feb 19, 2008, 01:18 PM

Thankyou very much for the advise ive been wondering to myself about the force upon rudder that its mounted in ! !!!!!!!!

ditchit

Feb 19, 2008, 02:16 PM

In my opinion it needs to go in a thin ply mount.

leederby

Feb 20, 2008, 03:01 PM

well i`ve managed to strengthen it in a few place`s with some small light bar going through the fus and the rudder witch should keep everything in place fingers crossed !

its just about finished now so ive uploaded the latest pics of the build .

alan_derby

Feb 22, 2008, 10:57 AM

Hi All,

Ok my hawk is ready for it's maiden flight but I dont think it will be this weekend if the met office forecast is correct, I will have to wait and see!!

Canopy work has been finished and some stickers have been replaced/attached. I have not bothered with a pilot as the CG is just right but I may do in the future (I want to see how it performs first :eek: ).

I have included some pictures of my finished build, still not sure on the AUW or Watts but I will post this info when I get chance. I know the thread is about the hawk but I have also included some pictures of the Depron/Foam Eurofighter that's currently in the build progress as if you are like me you like looking at models in the building stages..

Also a picture of my depron F15 and my fathers Top Gun EDF Hawk....

That's all for now, hope you all have a good weekend!!

Alan :rolleyes: :D :)

ditchit

Feb 22, 2008, 01:06 PM

Best of luck for the maiden. Weather tomorrow looks reasonable by our poor UK standards.

pentaxman

Feb 22, 2008, 01:41 PM

Sunday is looking really quite good for flying.

Best of luck

planecrazy73

Feb 27, 2008, 05:00 PM

Hi,
I also bought one of these from als for £20. Told the girlfriend it was an unmissable bargain! Since then I've spent a small fortune on bits for it!
Airpower 90mm fan
Flightpower 3700 5s lipo
Airpower OM550E motor
Himodel 80A esc

Haven't started the build yet but have hs65mg's and hs81mg's available; any recomendations? Anyone know if this setup will permit a hand launch or do i need to investigate a ramp/bungee? Was wondering if it was worth glassing the bottom of the fus as i will be landing without gear on grass? Any feedback would be appreciated!

Cheers All....

alan_derby

Feb 27, 2008, 05:23 PM

Hi Planecrazy,

Have you any idea what sort of performance you are going to get from your motor/fan combination....Watts/static thrust ect???

The AUW of my pusher version is about 1100grams (2.42lb), I will be producing around 340 watts..Thats about 140watts per lb, the guide line for prop power is 100 watts per lb so I am hoping to get a very sparkling performance. The guideline for EDF is 150watts per lb. My EDF F18 weighs about the same but produces around 550 watts (200watts per lb, hand launch is not a problem and the wing loading is loads higher than the hawk).

Hope this helps, the other guys may be able to guide you better as they have used a EDF unit in this model. I have seen a video of the EDF version being hand launched though and the link may be in this thread.

Regards,

Alan

Still not managed to maiden my hawk yet due to weather, hopefully this weekend... :D

planecrazy73

Feb 27, 2008, 05:36 PM

Thanks Alan,
Have scanned this thread and others, but don't remember seeing a hand launch? I guess I'm hoping for about 500-600W from the motor/fan, but don't know how realistic this is. Also have no idea what AUW to expect, I know the battery is heavy!! However still can't wait to get it going!

alan_derby

Feb 27, 2008, 05:43 PM

Hi,

Here is the link to the vid, I am 99% sure its the same model....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FMMNtAu44U&eurl=http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=701405&page=4

Here is the link to the above model..
http://www.sonicelectric.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=EDF-RedArrow&Category_Code=EFoam&Product_Count=2

The above links where grabbed from previous posts, I hope you guys dont mind...I am sure your all ok helping a fellow modeller.... :eek:

I cant see a problem in hand launching at all with that sort of power!!

planecrazy73

Feb 27, 2008, 05:51 PM

Thanks! I'll get on and finish it I guess!!

alan_derby

Feb 27, 2008, 06:12 PM

Yeah it's a nice model for the price.....

One thing I did do when building this model that has not been noted on this thread, if you look at the fus halves there is 6mm holes around the inside edge of the foam mold. I have inserted light weight 6mm dowels in these prior to joining the fus for extra strength. I think there is 8 holes in total, 7 are around 30mm and the 8th is the rear top hole which I think is about 70 - 75mm...

Enjoy!!

gunracer

Feb 28, 2008, 01:56 PM

the hc motor arrived...it's definitely an outrunner in a can...ran it up in the heavy duty haoye fan...on 4 cells, it drew 57 amps but on 5 cells it only drew 63 amps...i'll run some more tests with better cells...

ditchit

Mar 22, 2008, 09:17 AM

Completed my second Haoye Hawk but this time pusher (sorry, I know this is EDF forum). Will be interesting to compare with performance of my original 90mm powered Hawk.

AirPower OM550E Outrunner Motor (KV 1430)
Hyperion 80A OPTO ESC
6S3700 25C lipo
Waypoint MG mini servos

On a 7x5 APCe

25350 Rpm
18.16 Volts
65.5 Amps
1124 Watts

Just waiting for some decent weather to maiden...

kmp647

Mar 22, 2008, 09:25 AM

quick video of my haoye hawk
4s setup
rcmart df90
ammo 36-40-2250 motor
4s 3700 lipo
turnigy 60 amp esc
850 watts
great rog off grass on fixed gear

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=837286

ditchit

Mar 22, 2008, 09:29 AM

Very nice. Can't beat a good Hawk.

JieZ

Mar 23, 2008, 09:51 AM

Can a 70mm fan fit on this hawk?

ditchit

Mar 23, 2008, 09:58 AM

Yup, 70mm would fit but you would have to fabricate the mount for the fan and do something to ensure all the air flowing through the intakes go routed into the fan. Probably not workth doing. Just get a foamie built for a 70mm fan.

JieZ

Mar 23, 2008, 11:00 AM

Im a newbie in EDF and i dont know what setup should i use.i only have 1 2S lipo.i got this plane for SGD20,which is quite cheap.

ditchit

Mar 23, 2008, 11:04 AM

You need a 90mm fan and suitable motor. Suggest you look at Airpowernet.com. Someone else may suggest a cheaper combo.

http://www.airpowernet.com/twe/product_info.php?products_id=2

http://www.airpowernet.com/twe/product_info.php?products_id=525

You'll need an 80Amp speed controller and 5s or 6S lipo battery.

It all adds up to quite expensive setup for a first timer. You may want to go for a pusher setup. The model is the cheapest part of the whole setup.