Wing Loading in F3F

[jofo1]

How about a conversation on optimizing wing loading for F3F?

Or just report out on auw, plane, site location, wind conditions, times and we can draw some conclusions.

I'll share an experience to get it going;

At our last slope race at Thorton conditions were smooth and light in the early rounds, maybe 10-12mph, call it 50s air. I was flying my Victor at 130oz and scoring well (1000, 993, 970...). As the day went on the wind velocity picked up to about 15-18mph still straight in, 40s air (Sub-40 for one). I stayed at 130oz and my times got slower (I did manage a 962 in a middle round, 44s). Granted, I wasnt flying as smoothly, but it just wasnt as easy to fly fast as it was when the conditions were lighter.

Should I have added more ballast?

[F3X]

Good question.

I typically run in mid 40 air about 15-16oz ft2. If a crosswind maybe up to 18oz.
If the lift is good (Parker, Vincent...UK :cool: ) I run as light as possible to pop the turns, if the model gets bounced down the straight I add more.

More weight = larger turns. But sometimes this pays off. So many variables is what keeps this interesting.

The Stables is not what I would call "Good Lift". Most coastal sites really are not that strong. Ferman is a exception. I am sure there are others up north as well. At the Stables I was running the Caldera up to 18oz ft2. and it felt heavy, a bit too much but I had to try something since I don't sport fly there so I test during the race.

[jofo1]

I was flying at almost 18oz/ft2.

So many variable is right. I will try lighter in similar conditions next time...today around 3pm :)

Thanks Tom for the response.

[target]

When in doubt, err on the light side they say. That's because it hurts worse in poor lift to be heavy, than to be light in good lift.

Of course, if you know that you'll be doing cross wind, then you might want to re-thing that, and go a bit heavy.

All I know, is my best time was in high wind speed at Parker, and I didn't ballast very much. In that condition, the only place I wished I was a bit heavier was landing up on the knoll. It was a bit bumpy, and some ballast would have helped there.

T

[jofo1]

Flew in like conditions yesterday, light was not any faster when the wind picked up. Fastest again back at 130oz, mostly low 40s and a few faster. Flying at 104oz times were mid 40's. Climb out was better when light, but when it when the wind picked up it didn't matter. Tried flying different courses and turn styles (Kyle, DZ, Tom), Kyle style was definitely fastest for me and my plane at this weight. I learned a few things today.

[glderguy]

You seem to really like flying there(stables) Joe.
Walter

[jofo1]

A convenient sight to get to...and the view is fantastic. We had a hanglider loiter around for a long while and when we landed out he started half piping our slope, he was not much more than 2' off the lip. I thought he might fly it into the iceplant but he was grinning ear to ear on every pass. Like Tom said earlier on, its not a big air site but it is consistently good. I do think when it picks up over 20mph sub 40's are attainable, even for me. I really like flying my Victor, if you ever sell yours, I want first crack at it.

[glderguy]

Stables is a nice F3f site no doubt, maybe not so easy to get to though with the hike down and back up the dune. Certainly not accessable like Davenport
is, better air though. Ive gotten back into flying helis lately as such not much/any soaring for me now, so if I ever sell the Victor you will have first crack Joe. Keep up the practice as it seems to really be paying off for you
lately.
Walter

[target]

Practice is definitely key to flying a plane well in F3F.
I think that its better to practice at more than one spot, for us down here, though. Our F3F races are split up between 3-4 spots throughout the year, and they all are very different.

Darrell and Tim said that White Point was not as easy to fly as the Stables, which surprised me. I guess I have flown there so many times that I just dont think of it as difficult. It was fun having the NorCal guys down here.
I hope to get up to the Stables to fly with you guys this season.

T

[isoaritfirst]

I tend to work on the principle that if the model feels nice to fly.
Too light will be difficult to handle and hold the line, too heavy and the model will feel dead.
Its very difficult to asses from flight times, unless you are a super consistant flier in completly flat air.
A lot of models seem to have an optimum and it would be interesting to know how keeping the ballast at this setting would change the results over a year of switching weights.



I also think that when practicing I often quickly settle on a weight and are happy with it. In a race its all to easy to keep changing and you can be sure of one thing - you will believe you have got it wrong more than right.
Mike

[jofo1]

I completely agree with the comment on practicing. I have been fixing on a different weight in each session to so I can judge how the plane is flying relative to the prior sessions. My times come down the more I practice, period. But the plane was easier to fly fast, in all conditions, at the heavier wing loading. I have been flying that site twice a week for the last four or five weeks. My average times in similar air have steadily come down, and the consistency shows up in the times as well. For me, the plane feels best between 17-18oz/ft2 in 40-50s air.

For this plane I've settled on a weight for most conditions. Minor CG changes are my next focus.

[timmig]

Some planes will carry weight better than others-- but what you need to watch for as you gain consistancy--is the "pop" out of the turns. A heavy plane will not accelerate as easily as a lighter one--and IF you get a bad turn or the air gets "heavy" for a round, a heavy plane penalizes you much more than a light one! But, there is still an optimal wing loading for most conditions. Keep practising--with more experience, you'll recognize it faster!
Tim