Electric Control Line? [Archive]

steve lewin

Nov 03, 2002, 04:22 AM

Yes there are a few of us. We talk about it in the aptly named Electric Control Line forum which you may not have noticed cus it's hidden away under Special Interests.

But I do mean it when I say "a few", it's very quiet in there. Come along and liven it up a bit.

Steve

vintage1

Nov 03, 2002, 08:19 AM

Do you leave power in the model, or use the wires...seems liek a recipe for melted lines to me :)

leccyflyer

Nov 03, 2002, 11:17 AM

Buzzflight in the UK operate a system with a 6v Sp400 motor powered down the lines from a battery pack in the centre of the circle with the pilot. The lines are fairly short (6m IIRC) and the models are pretty small but it does work. I fancied a go at this myself-perfect flying field less than 200m away from here but too noise sensitive for IC control line.

Heres a link

www.buzzflight.co.uk

hth

Brian

Ray Lowinski

Nov 03, 2002, 12:30 PM

Are you looking to sport fly or do the pattern?

The C/L stunt flyers believe in the same things we do when it comes to weight - lighter is better. If you check out some of the sites like P.A.M.P.A. you will see planes with .60's on the front but weighing under 5 lbs.!:D

I don't see any reason why you can't leave the battery in the plane. Look at the R/C planes that will hover, 3D, and pull straight up. That's way more thrust than a C/L stunter would need. As long as you can do 3 loops in a row or a wing over you'll have all the power/thrust you need.

If you don't need to run controls down the wire like the scale planes use then you can keep it light with power down the wires. I'm working on a 66" span P-51 for scale C/L and plan on making it electric. I will put the pack in the plane so the signals for the retracts, flaps, throttle, etc. can run down the lines. This was shown in the recent Model Aviation btw.

Keep 'em hummin'

Ray

Vonbaron

Nov 03, 2002, 09:30 PM

My cousin built an electric control line plane way back in the mid 80's. 540 motor and 6 cell 1200mah car pack in the plane. Flew great!

Ragnar

Nov 04, 2002, 12:46 AM

Here's a stunter I built a couple of years ago, only had a standard 540 buggy motor in the photo, later had a 600. had a six cell 1700 pack offset outboard. Note the large automotive toggle switch on the inside wing, with back=off, so if it flips over it turns off. Had a Me 110 which nosed over on take off, stalled the two props, and still nearly caught fire before the fuse blew. Great fun, but I moved on to R/C.

robertc

Nov 04, 2002, 12:59 AM

Warren , I built a couple of c/l models last year and the year before just for an experiment. One with a S700 and others with S400. Battery on board, though I did try one with battery up wires but not successful. May still be details in control line threads. Large one had on/ off switch on plane, small ones had on /off control up insulated steel wire ( fishing line leader). Battery up wires may still prove to be successful with low powered models. Will post a picture of surviving ones one millenium when santa arrives with digital camera!
regards
Bob

leccyflyer

Nov 04, 2002, 04:14 AM

Great replies guys- nice to see that electric control line is alive and well.

Moved to Control LIne forum.

Brian

Mike Palko

Nov 04, 2002, 06:22 PM

Hi guys i am another electric control line flyer. I built an e-control line plane about 2-3yrs ago and i am just recently getting back into it. The plane was a scratch built sig twister. I have been flying it recently just to hold me over untill my new project is finished.
I am building a original nobler for my next e-plane. I bought a new motor for it and have a few new packs to try. I expect this plane to fly much better. My goal is to fly the pampa stunt pattern competativly but my back up plan is to fly it in old time stunt.
I guess my goals might be high but i think it is possible. If your goals are just to sport fly that is great also. I want as many people to take interest in e-control line as possible. Stick together and keep everybody updated on your current findings/projects.

shaneyee

Nov 07, 2002, 04:51 AM

Mike,
Hope you are more focused than me. I've been distracted flying the RC electrics and have not been able to start doing any building on my Nobler. Trouble is now that my C/L buddies have mostly gone to R/C so it'll be some lonely flying...I might convert the Nobler to R/C but make a profile C/L electric for fun.

I've bought 2 Kyosho Endoplasmas which work great on the R/C aerobatics planes. I figure to run the Endo at 30-35A instead of 40A as you wont have a throttle on the C/L ( or would you? ).

Good Luck.

Shane

steve lewin

Nov 07, 2002, 06:12 AM

You can have a throttle on the C/L model if you want one (after all the scale guys always do these days). If you only need the throttle channel not retracts and bomb drops etc nylon coated lines and a servo tester and you've cracked it. I have a couple of circuits that might help on http://www.slewin.clara.net/elec/ecl.htm

I must update that page, things have moved on a bit since then ;).

Steve

Pierre Audette

Nov 07, 2002, 08:39 PM

I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle, so here's my contraption I'm going to be testing this weekend in a gym. It has a 24" WS and AUW of 4 oz, with on board battery. Power is a direct drive GWS motor with a 3x2 prop. The wing is made of sliced blue foam, 1/4" thick on the bottom, 1/8" thick on top, and 1/4" sq. balsa between the two to create an airfoil. The fuse is 1/4" sq. basswood, and the tail feathers are 1/16" foam taped up. No throttle control, turn it on with an automotive 2A fuse. If the prop gets stuck, I'm hoping the fuse will burn before damage to the motor or battery occurs.

Pierre Audette

Nov 07, 2002, 08:40 PM

Close up on the nose...

Pierre Audette

Nov 07, 2002, 08:42 PM

Let's try that again...

Pierre Audette

Nov 10, 2002, 07:02 PM

Well it flies! I used 7x50 mA NiCd, which lasted close to 2 minutes. I had too much throw on the first flight, and the CG too far back, so it was tough flying level. Got it trimmed for a second flight, and even managed to pull a couple of loops! I tried some inverted, but it nosed in and broke the prop. I'm considering it a success, it gave the guys a good chuckle, as well as triggering some childhood memories for many.

robertc

Nov 10, 2002, 11:14 PM

congratulations Pierre! It will be interesting to see why you could not fly upside down if you decide to investigate the cause. Indoor c/l always seemed to me a good idea for introducing youth to aeromodelling in cold climates as found around your way. One thing I want to solve (given enough time) is what is more important - speed or torque - in c/l. I have always found using a gearbox much more effective in r/c except for those models that require speed as the first priority (such as pylon racers).
regards
Bob

quadracer111

Feb 04, 2009, 11:04 PM

whats electric control line?

slipstick

Feb 05, 2009, 04:31 AM

Which part don't you understand ? Electric or control line ?

Steve

mikeainia

Feb 05, 2009, 07:57 AM

And why are you responding to a thread that died out 7 years ago? Whatever e-CL was then, it is very much different now.

John O'Sullivan

Feb 05, 2009, 04:07 PM

And why are you responding to a thread that died out 7 years ago? Whatever e-CL was then, it is very much different now.

And I respectfully ask the same of you, or do you have some exemption.

Electric C/L may be different now but is significantly more developed and of even more interest than before.
John

rrcc

Feb 07, 2009, 03:21 PM

whats electric control line?
"Electric control line" refers to flying control line planes that use an electric motor rather than a nitro engine.

Electric control line has been slowly evolving in recent years. I think it offers the potential of a new surge of participation in control line flying. I consider it a new frontier.

Clancy Arnold

Feb 07, 2009, 06:01 PM

I may have posted this information before on an other thread.

Control Line or as it used to be called U-Control and then I added Electronics and it became U/Tronics Control.

I have been building and selling U/Tronics units for over 25 years. I make both a Single Channel unit and a multi Channel System (Encoder and Decoder). The Encoder goes in a box at the handle and the Decoder goes in the model to control up to seven servos.

E-Mail me at: clancyarnold@juno.com for more information.

Clancy

Russ The Flyer

Feb 11, 2009, 09:19 AM

Well it looks like this thread has come back to life.:D

On another thread I've a picture of a race car pistol I modded to run throttle control. And it works great. Still needs some bugs squashed but as is it works. Even mounted a video camera on it to take videos of if in flight. sort of makes you dizzy tho'. :eek: But I count it as a success. I'm running an outrunner 2208 with a 2 cell 7.6V 8 AMP lipo hooked to ESC and 3 channel RX. It's only purpose is motor speed control. I can shut if off at will and restart it at will. It does loops and flies upside down just fine. It was originally designed to use a TD 049. Nice to be able to fly without the noise and messy fuel/oil all over the place. No more worrying about fuel proof glue and paint.

It's not the exact same as flying with a control handle tho'. There is some ergonics that need getting used to. But I'm a happy camper.:)

ekotil

Feb 15, 2009, 09:33 PM

I have a bunch of electric R/C planes and a few heli's but I am also getting back into CL with timer and electric power. Mike Palko was very helpful in pointing me in the right direction and I have a Nobler and timer on the way from my LHS Wings & Wheels in Tyler, Tx. The owner, Gene LeFaille was nice enough to let me fly his glow powered trainer this past Saturday and I flew it twice for 3-4 minutes both times. I was slightly dizzy but had a blast. I used to fly with my Dad and Uncle back in the 50's. I have always wanted to fly CL again and now with the prospect of electric power I am going to do it again! I will keep you all posted as to how it goes. :)

quadracer111

Feb 19, 2009, 12:38 PM

And why are you responding to a thread that died out 7 years ago? Whatever e-CL was then, it is very much different now.
Because i used the search function like i was suppose to. So dont get all hissy because i used the search function like 1000's of people tell other people. I dont get the control line part. How does it differ from normal radio control flying?

Clancy Arnold

Feb 19, 2009, 03:29 PM

Quadracer111
The basic Control line model uses 2 lines from a handle that mechanically control the elevator in the model. As you hold the handle vertically the model will assume a level flight at some altitude. If you raise your hand the model will climb to a higher altitude, if you lower your hand the model will descend to a lower altitude.

To do aerobatics you need to learn to use your wrist to input the needed elevator changes. The model will fly anywhere on a hemisphere.

When flying your model in Scale competition you will need additional control(s). Throttle at a minimum or many channels for added features like flaps, gear retract, bomb drop ETC. The AMA regulations require all control(s) of a Control line model to pass through the flying lines either mechanically or electronically.

If you want to see some exciting flying watch the top fliers in Precision Aerobatics (called Stunt) fly the required pattern. Wing overs, loops, inverted flight, figure eights, square loops and square figure eights and many more maneuvers with the required lower level of each maneuver at 5 FEET altitude!!! The rule book calls for a 5 FOOT radius on the square corners. So picture a model in a power on dive at 10 foot altitude pulling out level at 5 foot altitude. Not much margin for error.

Hope this clears it up for you.
Clancy

quadracer111

Feb 19, 2009, 05:05 PM

Thanks very much! Just what i was looking for

rrcc

Feb 19, 2009, 06:00 PM

whats electric control line?
Here are some webpages and videos that explain and demonstrate control line flying.

What is Control Line?
http://www.go-cl.se/clinf.html

Everything under control (The Details of Control Line Flying):
http://www.iroquois.free-online.co.uk/clrtcls.htm

Here's a little history of the concept of control line flying:
http://www.aeromaniacs.com/historyofcl.htm

Video... A Nobler (a famous classic CL plane) flying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ez_cIg1CBM

Video... An electric-powered Nobler flying:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQSNwHWbtZU

For me control line flying is a different experience than rc flying. It's more physical in the sense that the plane is actually connected to you via the lines. You can feel the tug of the plane pulling, and you have to be totally present with what the plane is doing. For me, it's always a rush!

dz1sfb

Apr 08, 2009, 01:16 PM

Question about setting up the power system

I have been flying RC electric for some time and am interested in electric control line. I need to find out the power system like motor shut down and the likes. I am using brushless motors and would like to continue on that path. Any links for further instruction would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Ken :)

slipstick

Apr 08, 2009, 01:24 PM

dz1sfb

Apr 08, 2009, 01:29 PM

There are many threads in this forum detailing the power systems used in various models. The most common setup is like an RC setup except that the radio receiver is replaced by a timer which drives the ESC. There are a few other variants using things like servo testers controlled down the lines to drive the ESC but the timer is probably easiest. Other than that it's all the same, prop, motor, ESC and battery :).

Steve

Steve,

Thanks for the info. I understand about the timer. What is done in the event that you end up on the ground with a stalled motor? I am thinking about preventing the smoke from getting out of the electrical boxes.

Ken :)

jfv

Apr 08, 2009, 01:44 PM

Check this out on Stunt Hanger. http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=12044.0

You may have to register to view it. Lots of info here.

slipstick

Apr 09, 2009, 04:18 AM

What is done in the event that you end up on the ground with a stalled motor? I am thinking about preventing the smoke from getting out of the electrical boxes.
Basically nothing. Generally we fit undercarriages which help prevent the motor stalling and/or use one of the better ESCs which have good overcurrent cutoffs and just hope they're good enough. But mainly we try very hard not to let it happen ;).

I've seen various descriptions of complicated schemes using dangling wires or contacts to cut the power etc but I don't know anyone who actually uses them. Perhaps someone else knows more.

Steve

mikeainia

Apr 09, 2009, 11:52 AM

Even the cheapest ESC is enough of a safety feature - I've had a couple of minor crashes where the motor was stopped by ground contact and all that really happened was that it flopped back and forth a couple of times and then lay quietly. The ESC's seem to be somewhat prone to being damaged by the crash but if they get "confused" by the motor stalling, they quit trying to make it run. There is not a "stall current" issue, like there is with a brushed motor.

The ones that I've used also will stop the motor if there is too much current being drawn - for instance if you are over-propped. In that case, they try to run up to speed but when the current reaches some value that is over their rating, they just shut down.

dz1sfb

Apr 09, 2009, 12:26 PM

You can toast a brushless ESC by overcurrent. I know, I've done it.

Ken :)

perttime

Oct 07, 2009, 01:33 PM

Multi-engine electric

It just occured to me that electric should work great for those who want to do multi-engine ships - for scale or just "because".

One timer and one ESC would be fine for brushed motors. What about brushless? Can you run multiple ESCs from one timer?

jfv

Oct 07, 2009, 01:38 PM

I think yes as the timer just replaces the receiver in an RC application.

slipstick

Oct 07, 2009, 01:40 PM

Yes all the timers I've seen are perfectly capable of driving multiple ESCs.

Steve

Russ The Flyer

Oct 07, 2009, 02:04 PM

Hey I'm glad to see you're all back at it again. I haven't been back here in awhile so it's good to see it active again. This is a good forum on info of electric control line planes. I'm the only one here, so far, that has used a 3 channel race care pistol TX/RX to fly with. I like it because I can go out anywhere by myself and fly. Don't need anyone to hold it. And it flies great. It's a tad nose heavy. But it was my grandson's solid balsa plane that used to have a TD 049 on it.

Hmmmm ... I just realized I'm repeating myself here. :D S'ok. I've earned it. I'm retired now and can be as goofy as I want to. :p I just noticed I had posted this further up on this page. But, man! That was back in February. Now it's September. I hadn't realized I'd been away that long. I've slept since then. :D

perttime

Oct 07, 2009, 02:33 PM

So, for multiple motors, you use Y cords(s) from timer to ESC(s). I suppose you have to cut the wires so that only one ESC is powering the timer.

What timers are you using now? I saw that E-Flite has a pretty low cost timer now.
Does anybody have any pics of your planes?

dutchman1950

Nov 08, 2009, 07:04 PM

dutchman1950

Nov 08, 2009, 07:05 PM

I am thinking trying a sig 35 skyray all electic????

jfv

Nov 08, 2009, 07:14 PM

I am trying this also here in nashville,
looking for info on how to match a motor to a plane, and prop, and about the beattery pack install, and weight problems. need info if any is available

Jon in Hermitage tennessee

Check out this thread on stunthanger.com http://stunthanger.com/smf/index.php?topic=12044.0 It lists lots of setups. You will probably have to register to see it.