why so much?

[venom290]

Why do boats seem so expensive compared to planes? Not tryn to start a war or anything,and if there is a reason I'd just like to know. I would think with one mold the manufacturer could make a million hulls, not stick build and cover like an arf or even rtf. I've bought planes new and used arf, rtf, kits and it seems a comparible boat (engine, servos,no radio) is double the price of a plane. Realy want one but cost could be an issue.And I know this hobby aint cheap, but....
thanks, venom

[billyz7718]

I think most of the boat designs are newer than the planes. The newer the design, the more it is. This has to do with designing and paying for the injection mold. The plane ones are paid for long ago, its pure proffit, so the prices come down. Wait a few years and youll see the boat prices come down.
Thats just my 2c.

[Kmot]

Well, I could give you an opinion. A reasonably educated one too, since I have a lot of planes as well as boats.

But really, you need to tell us what planes you have bought, and what types of boats you think are expensive in comparison?

RTF planes, for one example, are the worse expression of a 'model' that can be used. They are cheaply made, cheaply built, look cheap, fly cheap, and cost cheap. However, for the same amount of money, under $100, you can buy a boat that is extremely fast, is RTR, comes with everything, and will last more than a couple of runs before it crumbles. More like a couple of years if you take care of the maintenenace.

At the opposite end of the spectrum, there are ARF model boats and ships that cost $1500-$2000 and there are ARF planes that cost $3000 and up, not including the $3000 to $6000 engine.

So, are we talking apples-apples or apples-oranges?

[LtDoc]

venom,
There's probably as much designing and engineering in a kit boat as there is in a full sized one. Plus, adapting the 'full sized' components to a much smaller scale really isn't as easy as it may seem. Depends a lot on the manufacturer, how easy/difficult the kit is supposed to be and who knows what else. And of course, (because it's a smaller market than planes, for instance) because they 'can'.
I've noticed one well known 'shop' is now advertising a well known kit for an outrageous price as a 'RTR' thingy. This particular kit is so easy to put together that it ought'a be classified as an 'almost ready to run' thingy. Why are they doing it? Cuz they saw a market and are in the 'bidnez' of making money.
- 'Doc

[venom290]

Kmot, you are correct about arfs needing some mods on assembly. I should have compared used boats and planes as that is what I'm looking at right now. Interested in 12th scale nitro. Any recomended manufacturers. Like the miss bud or that type of hull. What about dolphine or tigershark, there is a few of them on flea bay right now.They are new, but will they need mods out of the box? Sorry for all the questions, boat newb I is.

[venom290]

30 to 40 mph speed range would be nice also :D . or is that to much to ask from 12th scale? thanks venom

[Kmot]

venom, I know nothing about the nitro boats. So I am out of my league trying to answer any questions about those.

But I do know a tiny little bit about fast electric boats. 30-40 mph in an electric takes a little bit of money. A 1/12 hydro is what, around 30"? That is a lot of boat to get moving at those speeds so it needs a good strong motor, good speed control and good batteries. All of which are not inexpensive. Sorry I can't help you with the nitro boats.

[der kapitan]

Hey guys, when you are into a hobby or sport in a really big way, then probably, you're willing to spend the big bucks on whatever it takes to put you in the running. ;)

None of the big boys' toys are cheap, be they model boats or planes to golf clubs, etc. :eek:

[tigerbay]

Another thing about boats is economies of scale.

There are many more planes than boats. If I did design and build I would reach the break even point far faster if I did planes. Cos I would sell many more.

One last point.
Maybe related to above, there is much more competition in the plane market.

[CG Bob]

Why do boats seem so expensive compared to planes?
You're statement doesn't have much truth to it, IMO. Try to compare comparable models - not the cheaper ($100-200) ARF electric flight airplanes that look like Wiley Coyote bought them from Acme. Most trainer airplanes use a 3 or 4 channel radio; throttle; elevator; rudder; and sometimes aileron. Most of the boats use a 2 channel rig for throttle and rudder.
Most people getting started in the hobby can expect to pay $300-500 for "entry level" models like the Traxxas T-Maxx (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=TRA4910), ProBoat Hydros (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=PRB2900), Aquacraft Atlantic (http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXMPJ8**&P=7) tug, or a Hangar 9 Alpha Trainer (http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products/Default.aspx?ProdID=HAN2475).

Plane engines are air cooled; boat engines are mostly water cooled. It's more expensive to design and manufacture the water cooled head for the boat engine.

In a most go-fast boats (nitro, gas, and FE) the electronice are housed in a waterproof radio box. That box also costs money to build and install. In a plane, you just wrap the rx in some foam to protect it during a crash.

30 to 40 mph speed range would be nice also :D . or is that to much to ask from 12th scale? thanks venom Comapring some of the 1/12 scale rtr hydros; ProBoat Miss Elam & Miss Llumar (.15 engine, 27" loa) do about 25 mph out of the box; Aquacraft Miss Vegas (.18 engine, 32" loa) does about 33 mph. First hop up would be to replace the plastic prop with a properly balanced and sharpened metal prop.

[Umi_Ryuzuki]

Let me put it this way.
I still run the first boat I ever built. It gets sunk and shot up every year. Most boats do not go through that type of punishment. However the boat is now in it's 19th year of combat.

I don't imagine that there are as many plane owners that are still flying their first airplane. ;)

[pkboo]

Venom put it this way, planes coming down and getting lost vs. sinking and lost boats Who puts out the most dinero at the end and is left with what? What Umi says there!

[TugboatTom]

My educated guess is those cheapo ARFs or RTFs are very cheaply made with vacu-form oand styrofoam. For example a Caldercraft R/C boat kit consists of a glassfibre hull, white metal fittings, scribbed wooden decks, and etc., etc., etc.! An R/C airplane kit which is that elaborate would be just as much maybe even more!

And yes the guy above me has a point. They are very cheaply made because planes can be lost or smashed to pieces so easy. Now Scale R/C airplanes. Kits like that cost thousands and thousands of dollars. Like a big giant R/C B17 Bomber that is like 56" long with a glassfibre fuesalage. Im pretty sure they do make a kit along the lines of that and it probably isnt cheap. But try flying it and see what happens.

Heck they make minature jet turbines for R/C airpanes and Helicopters. But they are a good $5,000 a piece plus the plane to plunk it into.

[Hoghappy]

My two...I used to do the planes...lost too many to count including a 1/3 scale clip wing Piper Cub. The last was a beautiful F4U Corsair with working 6 piece flaps and pneumatic landing gear and a nice expensive four stroke motor...crashed it on the first take off. Six month build down the drain.

Not only were the planes expensive, but it was stressful to fly them unless I was flying a cheap one that was easy to replace...like the Ugly Stick for example.

With boats...you don't have to hunt in the woods or pastures for the remants with a shovel in hand to try to salvage what's left of the motor.

Boats can be expensive, but so can planes....they last longer than planes and aren't as prone to a total loss in most cases. :D

[fleetmaster]

Without sounding like a broken record here i agree with all the above statements.
Probably hydro owners are the most likely to have a total loss.E.g a boat that gets out of shape,jumps out of the water,before diving to the bottom,but that usually happens to really hi-po boats or from people running in poor conditions.
My two-bob!!

[Shaun Hendricks]

I side with simple economics.

Supply vs Demand.

The boat hobby side is DRAMATICALLY smaller than the plane side. Walk into your LHS and see the WALL of planes. Then look at the dozen or less boats.

Planes are fast & exciting. One oops and you have a pile of sticks or foam that need replacing or repaired.

Ground vehicles are still more popular than planes and they are very inexpensive.

The cost appears to be directly proportional to the interest in the hobby as well as the amount of time the vehicle needs replacement.

[ReddyWatts]

Here is a setup for a reliable/budget boat that runs in the upper 30's for $475.

Controller 100 amp using 12 to 36 cells/$100 $100.00 https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4691
OR
Controller or 100 amp using 12 to 36 cells $50.00 http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A0780193&pid=B0558276

Batteries 24 - 3600 mah NiMH batteries ? http://www.battlepack.com/

Motor 540 / 14XL $69.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=42

Motor mount dr-mount $7.49 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-drmount

Prop X640 $12.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/categories.php?cat=46

Cable/drive shaft .150 3/16 drive cable $10.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc150L-24c

Coupler 5mm - .150 flex coupler $9.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=68

Strut $28.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-21-strut

Mini rudder 4" $39.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-mini-rud

hull - mean machine $155.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=Aero-MM

Antenna Gundert whip $10.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=gnd-whip&cat=73

radio/receiver/servo FM/radio $76.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-126751

$471.31 Total

[Aerominded]

I don't imagine that there are as many plane owners that are still flying their first airplane. ;)

Hee hee, I still sometimes fly my first RC plane... but the only thing original on it is problably the wheels!

Boats are hard to beat on lifespan! :)

[Kmot]

My first plane was so ugly by the time it made an uninterupted flight (crash) after all the repairs it looked different and weighed twice as much as stock. But once I could solo it (35-50 flights I am guessing) I trashed it and built a new plane. :D

[venom290]

Here is a setup for a reliable/budget boat that runs in the upper 30's for $475.

Controller 100 amp using 12 to 36 cells/$100 $100.00 https://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDHOBBIES/store/comersus_viewItem.asp?idProduct=4691
OR
Controller or 100 amp using 12 to 36 cells $50.00 http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A0780193&pid=B0558276

Batteries 24 - 3600 mah NiMH batteries ? http://www.battlepack.com/

Motor 540 / 14XL $69.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=42

Motor mount dr-mount $7.49 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ose-drmount

Prop X640 $12.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/categories.php?cat=46

Cable/drive shaft .150 3/16 drive cable $10.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=oct-oc150L-24c

Coupler 5mm - .150 flex coupler $9.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=68

Strut $28.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-21-strut

Mini rudder 4" $39.95 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=ros-mini-rud

hull - mean machine $155.00 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=Aero-MM

Antenna Gundert whip $10.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=gnd-whip&cat=73

radio/receiver/servo FM/radio $76.99 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/proddetail.php?prod=dh-126751

$471.31 Total
Thanks for the info but I think nitro or gas is for me. I have a habit of letting the mws, (magic white smoke) out of things. I allready have radio,servos, batt.
venom

[ReddyWatts]

Thats what is cool about this setup. It uses low amps (55 amps) so it wont let out the white smoke.

[venom290]

It smell like fuel? :D :D