Sea Queen Build Thread

[Rob_P]

This build thread is for the Jotika-ltd. “Sea Queen”. This is in fact a remake of the original 1960’s Aerokits model. In looking at some of the old Aerokits advertisements on the [url]www.modelfireboats.com] web page it looks like the smaller 34” Sea Commander came first and that was joined in 1961 by the 46 ½” Sea Queen. Apart from the difference in length, the easy way to tell them apart is that the Commander has two long and narrow windows in the front part of the cabin area where as the Queen has 3 round port holes. Don’t be fooled by the name “Sea” in the boats name, this is a common thread of the Aerokits boats –
Sea Queen, Sea Commander, Sea Urchin, Sea Nymph, Sea Scout, Sea Rover, Sea Hornet etc. I once read that the Sea Queen and Commander are in fact “Broads cruisers”. For those that don’t know the Norfolk Broads is an area on the East coast of England rich in in-land waterways.

The pics below are an original Aerokits ad and a picture from the Jotika-ltd web site of their version

[Rob_P]

My father (80) has one of the original Aerokits versions, & he has owned it ever since I can remember. Its still under construction & finally nearing completion. As a consequence I have a point of reference for comparing the original & Jotika re-make.

In my youth I had built numerous balsa & tissue gliders & even a 3.5cc R/C ply wood speed boat. More recently I have returned to modeling, building and flying electric park flyers & even a Victoria Sailing boat. Then one lunch time on the net I came across the Jotika version of the Sea Queen and knew I had to get one. This would be a winter build project for when the weather is too bad to fly.

Here is the bad news, I now live in the US & the Jotika kits are in the UK. On contacting their US distributor, they only had one left & that had suffered damage when their basement flooded. The distributor could not give me any indication when a new shipment would arrive and the end of the flying season was fast approaching.

Upon inspection of the kit a lot of the wood had surface mold that “should” clean off so I decided to take the kit.

[Rob_P]

With the exchange rate at the time, the kit was good value for it included a large Caldercraft electric motor, 3” brass prop, prop-shaft & various fittings. You don’t get that on the other Dumas kits I’d been looking at.

To my mind the latest Jotika version misses out on the two signature features of the original. The cabin sides used to be a mahogany finish and had life belts mounted on the cockpit sides. Well the new kit only has plain birch ply, and the bag of fittings does not include the life belts.

Comparing the two versions there are some real improvements in the Jotika version. The basic bulkhead / keel construction includes an integral motor mounting plate. Also equipment mounting floors are provided in the mid section for mounting the battery and in the rear for receiver and rudder servo.

In the old kit the lower forward facing windows had a fixed roof extending backwards for about 1.5” where it then met the removeable main cabin roof. On the new version removeble main cabin roof has been extended to cover the front windows. Additionally the old version had an angled brass rod to brace the upper cockpit windows.

[Rob_P]

OK with respect to those items specifically mentioned above, the plans and components are near identical to the original.
After a bit of sanding (out doors) most of the flood damage was cleaned away. And the wood was clean enough to bring into the house.

First job is to glue the bulkheads square to the keel. Not as easy as it sounds. At this time the keel is only a single spine of ¼” ply and a little floppy and not as straight as it should be. To help / complicate things the cabin sides are notched on the bottom edge to key into the bulkheads. So you end up thinking its all square and parallel but then the bulkheads don’t match the notches in the cabin sides. In the end it becomes a bit of a compromise. (It may not be be “absolutely square” but at least all the pieces all fit together).

After much debate and with help on the web site threads I opted for Titebond 3 as my main glue. I was very happy with it throughout the project.

[Rob_P]

The chines and gunwhale stringers are made from doubled up 10mm x 5mm Obechi to form a 10 x 10 section. This was done one lamination at a time, soaking the wood for 20 mins, bending to shape and leaving to dry for 24 hrs, then glued in place. The outer stringer was then soaked and bent to follow the inner left for 24 hrs etc.
To clamp these in place demanded quite a reach and I didn’t have any clamps that wide. So I got some scrap wood and simply cut a wide notch the same as the opening I needed to clamp. I then simply eased my notched bit of scrap in place allowing it to tightly hold my stringers in place. No worries about it backing off ! Also due to the taper of the boat you could simply slide it slighty forward or backward to get the exact about of clamping force required.

For laminating my inner and outer stringers together, where the bend radius was too tight for clothes pegs. I again got some scrap notched 10mm cut outs and simply pushed them onto the stringers at 2” intervals. This worked like a dream holding my stringers together while the glue dried.

When it came to fitting my skins. I rejected what was supplied in the kit. The ply was showing signs of de-laminating. Due to the size & shape of the skins I had to buy 4 sheets of 48” x 12 x 1/16 ply ( Ouch !).

[Rob_P]

I wanted to have the minimum of trimming of my skins after glueing to the bulkheads so I made my own patterns. I taped together the cardboard from several breakfast cereal packets, carefully trimming back until I got my desired pattern.

Cutting out the skins was done with several brand new X-acto blades. Repeatedly scoring along a straight edge and then breaking the ply backwards and forwards. This will give a good sharp edge.

The skins were fixed to the bulkheads in about three stages. Starting at the back ½ were any bending was minimal I carefully located the skin and glued in place. When dry, I then glued it and pinned it around the first part of the bend and awaited 24hrs for it to dry. Then I did the final pull round to the nose.
This is different to the notes which suggest that each skin should be epoxied and pinned at once. Well I don’t have enough hands to get everything lined up and pinned all in one go.

[Rob_P]

The inside of the hull was painted with 3 coats of Brodaks hot fuel proof.. It may be a good sealer but the fumes are something else. I had to do this in the cold garage no fun. Just to make sure the hull joints were leak proof I mixed up some Zpoxy “Finishing Resin” The intention was to pour in a small amount to form a resin bead between skins and keel, skins and bulkheads, skins and chines. As it turned out it was a learing process and typically used too much forming a deeper bead than I had planned. Lets see the water get past that !

Main cabin roof – after building up from the supplied kit parts I discovered that the main ply base was too badly warped to be used. None of the glued components could be salvaged and I had to remake the whole cabin roof. ¼” Ply is not cheap.

[Rob_P]

To try and re-capture the look of the original I decided to stain the cabin sides. I used Minwax Polystain ( a stain and varnish all in one). A couple of coats produced an acceptable colour.

For the decks I purchased some 10mm x 1mm Lime and Mahogany planking and used slow CA to fix in place. I was in a real jam with the amount of planks received and had to carefully plan all of my cuts to make sure I had enough.

The open cockpit area never did look right on either the original or the re-make. I constructed a window ledge, instrument panel & throttle slide to finish it off. All it needs now is some chairs. (watch this space).
I hoped I could pick up some life belts either at my LHS or the Toledo show but didn’t find any that were suitable, in the end I made my own from some scrap ¼” ply.

[Rob_P]

When it came to paint, I tried a test patch of Brodaks fuelproof clearcoat over he wood stain and found that it was not compatible (Ugghh). Looking for an alternative I discovered Nelsons paint (Nelsonhobby.com). The range includes a water based epoxy primer and water based fuel proof paints. There is no smell and you can clean your brushes in water.
Note the primer states that shaking is not enough. I had to use a screw driver to dig into the solids at the bottom and get them moving. Once free from the bottom I fashioned a key shaped paint stirrer from a wire coat hanger and used that in the bottle in conjunction with a variable speed electric drill. The stirrer worked well.

The hull was painted white and clear coat applied over the deck planking and stained cabin sides.
The water line was determined by floating the boat in the bath tub fully loaded with battery and motor and then marking off the water level. To help see the actual level. I floated one of my sons used lollipop sticks next to the boat.. When it came to paint the line I allowed about 10mm up from its actual floating level. Hopefully If I lose sight of the red line when I’m sailing it will give me some indication that I’m getting into trouble ! To mask of the line I used blue painters tape. This was not very successful as the paint was so thin it would bleed under the tape leaving a very ragged line.

[Rob_P]

For the electrics I’m using a 12V 7A battery and a 40A Mtronics Marine Viper speed control, I wanted a smaller one but thats all my shop could get me. The motor stalls at just over 20A so I have put an inline 20A fuse between the battery and ESC.
.
The battery, receiver and speed control have each been located on their base plates by four wood blocks. This worked well, the push fit adequately restrains the parts yet leaving them free enough for easy removal.
My main connectors are Deans Ultras. While I appreciate that they are not fully waterproof they are located sufficiently high to avoid any water ingress. Another plus about the Deans is that its common to all my planes which allows easy use of the same charger and testing with a wattmeter.

[Rob_P]

Current status.
Prop tube is greased with light lithium grease via a baby food syringe, prop shaft installed, I think I displaced a lot of grease re-inserting the shaft.
Rudder installed and servo connected.

All ready for preliminary trials. This will ensure I have not screwed up the level of my waterline.

A name decal for the transom is on order from Callie-Graphics. Once applied and I’m happy with my waterline it will be an application or two of Nelsons clear coat to the hull and then job done – Well almost.

I have fitted out one of my planes with some home made LED nav lights and it looks pretty impressive flying at dusk . My current plastic non working nav lights on the boat may have to go!
In the near future I will be paying a visit very close to JJC (the Sound people) and may see if they have anything suitable.

Rob

[Kmot]

Geez!! I think you may even build faster than Pat Tritle!! :p

[Punkie]

Great I've got an original Sea Commander, They are lovely boats.

[Rob_P]

I started the build in Oct and its only just ready for trails now, slightly in front of my dads model now !!!...
Very intersted to see how quickly it moves, its a good size motor & prop but its also very heavy.

[Aerominded]

Geez!! I think you may even build faster than Pat Tritle!! :p

Hee hee, exactly what I was thinking Kmot!!! ;)

Nice work on a classic subject, Rob! :)

[Punkie]

They are heavy but thats what you get for wanting an old style boat.

[Rob_P]

Punkie,

How long have you had your Sea Commander?
Did you make it as a kit or buy it completed?
What motor / battry / prop are you using?

Rob

[Rob_P]

As there was no chance of a trip to my preferred sailing location this weekend. I just took if for a "preliminary" test at our local marina (yes, big boats).
All went well, the boat sailed through the heavy water to get into the relative calm of the marina. Once in the confines of the marina it became apparant that I was either suffering from the cross winds or it was a combination of my delibrate slow speed and not enough rudder throw.
The good news is that it handled the "rough" waters and remained completely dry inside.
The boat is now cleaned down ready for the arrival of Callie's graphic, battery re-charged and rudder adjusted.

Pics of the completed boat to follow soon (well after the graphic).

Rob

[Aerominded]

Sounds like you had a successful sea trial! Congratulations! :D

Re: rudders, I ususally set up my boat rudders to throw 45* each way... :)

By the way, slightly OT but it looks like the plane in your avitar is a Stinson? was that a kit? :)

[Punkie]

I bought it from a work mate who had it from new. It had the original radio in it from the 70s that still worked but is a bit old, and I thought it could interfere with other channels so I put new gear in it along with a new electronic speedo which is turning out to be not quite man enough for the job, but more of that later. It has a decaperm 6v motor with the gears removed connected to a prop the size of which I can't remember, but I can check that when I get home. I put a 6v lead acid battery in there as that was what he used and it goes OK, scale fast cruising not power boat style. But Me being Me I put another 6v battery in series with the first, put it in the river and shoved the throttle full on and it jerked and stopped, I had blown the fuse, Back home, find more fuses 25amp now instead of 10 amp, back on the water, gently open throttle, get into middle of river point at bank (wideish river) and opened it up, backend dug in, the front came up and she went of like a scalded cat. A quick turn to port had her going away from the bank and she proceded to blast up and down the river like a goodun. The front half was out of the water and she was leaving one hell of a wake for such a small boat, but that is a result of a heavy boat going fast I guess. After a few minutes she cut and drifted back to the bank. I checked the fuse but that was OK, and after a couple of minutes she started working again, this I have put down to the speed controller overheating so I will probably get a higher ampage esc, I think its a 30 amp one in at the moment I will have to check and get back. She could go faster but that would involve getting the weight down and fitting a more suitable motor and as I am not racing her or doing anything more than messing about I will leave her as she is, except for the ESC that is.

[Punkie]

There are pictures of mine and others on this thread http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=294160&highlight=sea+commander

[Rob_P]

Aero -

Good observation its my 48" 3 channel Stinson Voyager, a Pat Trittle design kit sold via Dare Design.

Punkie -
A lot to digest there but it sure sound like your having fun with yours. I hope to post some more pics soon.


Rob

[Aerominded]

Looks very nice! Thanks!

[Rob_P]

I had another trial in the Marina this evening. I'm still not happy with the turning radius and will have to make some more adjustments to further increase the throw.
Still waiting for the name graphic to arrive.
On the plus side I was able to get some reasonable photos.

Rob

[Kmot]

Looks awesome!

[Rob_P]

Thank you, this is the classic look for this boat, if only Jotika used this on their ads I'm sure it would appeal to more people.

Rob

[Rob_P]

Ok, here is an update -

Callie graphics have delivered the name for the transom. Its exactly what I wanted and applied beautifully with no problems.

[Rob_P]

The supplied Caldercraft motor is a low current drain unit that propels the boat a little above walking pace. OK but its not going to keep a user entertained for long.
After some discussion in this forum, I decided to uprate the original 3,000 rpm unit with something approaching 3x the rpm. The Torpedo 850 is a direct replacement, same fixing centers, shaft diameter etc,
Obviously its going to suck down quite a bit more current but I'm prepared to live with that.

Wow ! I just came back from the pond & its transformed the boat, now you need to control the throttle and can only hit max when its clear ahead !!

After about 20 mins I brought it in and it looked like it was still hitting the same speed as the fully charged battery.
The motor case was hot, too hot to touch, & there was a drop of water in the rear section. My guess is that it may have come up through the rudder stem during a bit of fast reverse.

Here are some more pics

[Kmot]

That is more like it, eh? :D

Motors get hot. And they shed heat. It's okay. As long as nothing is getting 'too' hot, like burning insulation, melting solder, etc you are good to go.

[Punkie]

Thats great, That new motor has it looking good.

[Aerominded]

"Elizabeth" Looks great on a plane! Nice Job!!! :)

[geoff-w]

Your Sea Queen is looking relly great. Mine is coming along well and will soon have its skins fitted.

[Rob_P]

Geoff,
Any pictures you'd like to share?

[Rob_P]

Link to some pretty shaky video (holding the cam & TX).
Also a little sedate due to running the wrong prop.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=725864

Rob

[geoff-w]

English Sea queen is coming along!

[Rob_P]

Geoff,
Well done, its looking very good !
The four clevis set up will work fine, it puts mine to shame, I'm only using a single push rod with one clevis and Z bend at the servo end.

Keep the pictures coming.
Rob

[geoff-w]

Started to paint my Sea Queen.

[geoff-w]

Still thinking about how I would like the mast to be fixed!

[Rob_P]

Geoff,

Paint
Just out of interest what brand of paint are you using?

Mast
After glueing my mast in place I used my Dremmel and drilled a fine hole up through the center roof rib and into the heel of the mast. Then using a pair of pliers pushed a re-inforcing wire up into the hole (after first cutting to match the depth of the hole) I'd estimate that the rear wire was approx 25mm long !
I repeated the operation for the front edge of the mast, this time going through the toe of the mast and into the center roof rib.
This has worked very well for me.

Rob

[Punkie]

I once read that the Sea Queen and Commander are in fact “Broads cruisers”. For those that don’t know the Norfolk Broads is an area on the East coast of England rich in in-land waterways.
Thought I would give some links to the Norfolk broads so you can get a feel for the area where these boats were and are used.
http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/index.html
Or http://www.canaljunction.com/canal/broads.htm
Canal junction http://www.canaljunction.com/main.htm is a great resourse for info about the UK waterways, especially the canals.
This site is a database of Norfolk Broads boats http://www.horning.org.uk/boats.php?page=home&menu=main

[geoff-w]

Took my boat to the water. It behaved perfectly. Just a few details to finish off now.