Eclipse 7 for Full House Thermal?

[target]

Has anyone mastered using the Eclipse 7 Hitec radio for TD flying with a 4 wing servo plane?
I have a pretty good setup for F3F slope racing that works, but never quite figured out the flight conditions end of it...

I have 4 servo snap flap, full span ailerons, full span camber on VR-1 knob, proportional crow on landing, and I even have more rudder mixing in the landing mode to help the roll authority with the ailerons up.

Also, I've been told that I can turn down the response from the VR-1 knob by slaving channel 6 into itself at a reduced rate, but have never tried it.

I realize that not many people fly Thermal with this radio, but I used mine for F3F before I bought my EVO, and it served me well. It's nice that I has Spectra AND both shifts for a lower priced unit.

Any input appreciated.

Thanks,
Target

[infopimp]

Try the mapping Master 6 -> Slave 6 and dial it back... that VR1 knob will smooth out and you can adjust the upper and lower limits to your desired max camber and reflex. Also softens the midband so if you are one or two clicks off 12 o'clock (neutral) on VR1 its no big deal. Just make sure Channel 6 switch is pulled toward you. :)

I'm pretty happy (thanks to your doc above) - but what is missing for thermal flying from your setup, in your view?

[target]

what is missing for thermal flying from your setup, in your view?


Flight conditions-

Launch- Flaps and ailerons drooped 15mm and 10mm,

Reflex- Flaps and ailerons up about 4mm and 3mm, and

Thermal- Flaps and ailerons drooped about 3mm and 2mm.....

These 3 conditions on a switch to be changed instantly via switch position for winch launching....

I think it's doable, but haven't worked it out just yet...
Target

[EricSoar]

I have an Eclipse 7...

The main limitation of the Eclipse 7 for thermaling is its lack of full trailing edge camber control. The Eclipse moves the flaps down/up without moving the ailerons. Using complicated mixes and two switches you can get full trailing edge camber. There is advice about this on the net.

Now that I fly electric sailplanes, I don't miss the lack of full trailing edge camber for winch launches. Even for winch launches, flaps only down was more conservative/safer. Less chance of tip stalls or floding the wings.

Some people like to keep the airfoil consistent across the span. With a polyhedral wing, I think that it matters less if the airfoil trailing edge changes camber at the flap to aileron transition.

I just got used to camber control of flaps only. I suppose a top end competitor would find that unacceptable!

[schrederman]

Buy better... I did and don't regret it. I sold my Eclipse and 2 other radios and a built model for my new 9303 and it's probably the best thing I've done in a while.

Jack Womack

[target]

Buy better... I did and don't regret it. Jack Womack


I have an EVO.
Buying better isn't really the solution I'm looking for, and the question I pose isn't even for me...

My drive stems from the fact that I think that it may be possible for this to happen with the Eclipse 7.
But more than that, that lots of peolpe have an Eclipse, and will never buy a nice full house plane because they can't afford to, or won't buy a better radio,
While there are better radios out there, why not get the most out of what it (Eclipse 7) is?

A while back I had a "debate" with a guy that sells (distributes)9303's AND molded gliders, he was putting down the Eclipse 7.
That was the funniest thing to me; by helping others that ALREADY HAD an Eclipse, I wonder how many of them BOUGHT a molded 4 wing servo plane from him, that wouldn't have, if they had to buy a 9303 also, just to make it work....
It was probably at least few.....
There are a LOT of Eclipse 7 owners out there.

I probably would have bought a 9303, if I didn't get an EVO....
Of course, I would have had to sell ALL my recievers, and buy over $1,000.00 worth of new ones to do that...


Target

[schrederman]

The problem with the Eclipse I had was that you could control camber for the entire trailing edge, but not accurately... And if it's not accurate, you're not really doing it... I have seen the control that the Futavba 9-C has and it's not as expensive as the 9303. Hitec made us believe they would change the Eclipse to make our camber control work, and make an upgrade available. They never did it. You can fly full-house gliders without camber control, but you'll be at a disadvantage compared to those that can add and remove camber for the entire trailing edge, and not just the flaps. Sorry I misunderstood your question. The Hitec is actually a reliable radio... it just doesn't work well for full-house sailplanes.

Jack

[target]

If you follow the word doc I posted, you CAN get full TE camber, but it's proprtional on the VR-1 knob; Someone emailed me asking if it's possible to have pre-set, switch controlled settings for launch, reflex, and camber. I think it may be possible, I have to work on it more...

It IS possible, according to others, to lessen the effect of the camber changing amount of the VR-1 knob by slaving channel 6 into itself with a "P-mix". Doing that will allow the user to make the full travel of the knob at or close to the amount of camber and reflex you'd want to have for flying...
Having setting on a switch, with elevator compensation for each of those modes would definitely be better!

I'll post it here, if I ever get motivated enough and time to research and solve this...

Good lift to you,

Target

[schrederman]

I did that with mine, and could still never get it to accurately center. It was a huge hassle trying to get the little knob back to center and just wasn't worth the hassle. Does it work... yep. Does it work well... well, it didn't for me. That's not to say that it's not for anyone else... just not for me.

Jack

[sekollera]

I came up with the way to tone down the control for full TE camber/reflex. It is a nice low cost radio that will fly full-house reasonably well. Used they are what, $100 sythesized? The Optic 6 will actually fly full house too (ie. it will do crow and that is about it). I was impressed in any case and it blows away the Futaba 6 channel radios.

I now have a 9C and like it very much. It does all the full spanning conditions and then some and the price is good (for us neg. shift guys).

Jack, did you sell you PIK?

/Adam

[schrederman]

Adam,

I have it still. I have 2 guys looking at it this weekend, and got 2 more inquiries today. I hope to get to fly it Sunday, if it's still mine...

Jack

[infopimp]

I've been using VR1 and have it working pretty well (can return to center, can control small differences - with good digi servos).

Target and all: One thing noted as missing is the doc is support for Flight Conditions - maybe we can write this in:

See this post:

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6280654&postcount=5


Jim Walker:

I've flown a full house DLG with an Eclipse 7. The problem is that to really make life simple with the camber changing AGxx foils, you need two flight condition switches. The Eclipse only has one. It's a three position switch so that would take care of the three flapperon positions, (speed, cruise, thermal). Then you could put the flaps on the throttle stick. Full throttle equals no flaps and throttle stick down/off equals full 90 degree flaps. This configuration works pretty well, but doesn't leave any way for launch presets.

Another configuration I came up with was launch presets and flaps on the three position switch. First position = launch, Second position = normal flight, third switch position is full 90 degree flaps. I put the camber positions on the throttle stick. Full throttle = speed, Mid throttle = cruise, Thottle off = thermal. The throttle stick set up was pretty intuitive, but a bit clunky. The throttle stick spent most of it's time in the cruise position which was mid throttle and I bumped it a lot. You have to be careful to get the throttle stick right in the middle to get the accurate cruise position. Speed and thermal were of course easy since they were at the sticks end points. You also had to be careful not to flick the three position switch all the way during launch. I never actually did it, but can you imagine 90 degree flaps at launch speed??!!?


Then more help (my emphasis):

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6282432&postcount=6


ajroahkni (john):

Camber
PMIX 1 - throttle stick to control flaps. Full up throttle gives reflex (throttle up = speed), Full down(off) throttle gives camber. You can program the endpoints of the throttle to match throws that you want on camber - middle stick is no camber/reflex. (PMIX1 is turned On/Off by the inner right D/R switch)
PMIX 3 - throttle to control elevator. If necessary, compensation of elevator to camber changes while throwing the throttle. (PMIX3 is turned On/Off by the outer right switch - gear maybe?)
Centering throttle is a problem until you get used to it.


The 3 position switch on the top left (not sure what it's called) - flight modes/conditions?
Pushed all the way to the back of the case - Elevator -> Flap coupling (Ele up, flaps go down, vice versa)
Middle - No coupling
Flicked Forward - Landing Preset - Flaps down, elevator trimmed.


Aileron -> Rudder coupling (Rudder D/R switch) - can be on or off - should be ON when landing for some control (w/ the right stick) when flaps are deployed.

I don't use a launch preset, I kinda just launch...it goes pretty high.

Hope that helps.

John


Idea is to use the landing preset for climb out / launch mode???


Another tweak I'm looking into is activating the mix the Eclipse supports for elevator compensation when changing camber using VR1. Will decrease right stick work when changing full TE camber.


With all that added in, we will have just completed the HiTec "Unofficial" How to Setup a 4-servo wing on the Eclipse. :) Thanks again for the document, Target... made it easy to get this far.

[flyingdogtwo]

Back when I flew with the E-7, this is how I would do full TE cambering without having to touch that silly VR-1 dial.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195267&highlight=flyingdogtwo

[infopimp]

I figured it out - SubTrim 2 gives me a "launch" mode - flt mode is pulled all the way toward you and this mode engages - gives control over elevator and both flaps. Nice!