"History - Down the Santa Fe Trail and into Mexico"

[Tom Harper]

Skymind has suggested that we have a multi-participant project on the Santa Fe trail. That would include the route from Franklin, MO to Santa Fe, then the New Mexico Trail and El Camino Real de Chihuahua.

I am proposing that we have individual 'Gallery' threads and all use a common discussion thread.



Let's give it a try!

This is a map of El Camino Real - I will find one of the Santa Fe Trail

[quailbird]

Here are a set of maps showing the Santa Fe trail as it progresses from Missouri to New Mexico.

[quailbird]

Here is the response to my letter sent to the Nation Park Department.:

The only maps that we have of the KC area are fairly general. Most of the
places where the trail passes through open land have been looked at and a
number of trail rut sites are known. There is an area NE of Minor Park
where there may be some ruts but you would not see them from the air as the
area has a lot of trees. Send me your mailing address and I can send you
the maps that I have.

Jim Walker, an archeologist who is now retired from Brigham Young
University used to do photography using radio controlled model planes. He
was able to identify a lot of features this way that were not readily
visible if you were standing on the ground. Of course, the technique worked
well in the west where vegetation was minimal. He did some work for us in
western Kansas back in the 90s. Back then, he used a regular 35 mm camera
which was moderately heavy. I imagine your digital cameras are much lighter
now.



John Conoboy
Chief, Interpretation and Resource Management
National Trails System - Santa Fe
National Park Service

[rloose]

Hey Tom-

Re: the Camino Real- I used to see well definined portions of it in the Jornada del Muerto when I was flying 'Line Patrol' for the electric company (PNM). I was a back seat passenger in a Hughes 500 helicopter and was doing counts of raptors using the line poles for resting or nesting, so I had plenty of time to ruber neck around between structures. There was an engineer up front inspecting the power poles for damage or erosion problems.

Some of these remains aren't too far from where I live. I'll check Google Earth first to see if anything shows there.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Quailbird,

Nice response letter. Encouraging since there is plenty of room for discovery. Some street names will provide clues to the path through towns.

In the past most research was done by ground observation. You are likely to make discoveries using color patterns in crops. The old trails may be fairly visible. Also there was a Jornada del Muerto in Oklahoma. That area is likely to still be well defined.

Jim Walker wrote an excellent book on aerial photography using RC models; "Low Altitude Large Scale Reconnaisance: A Method of Obtaining High Resolution Vertical Photographs for Small Areas" James W. Walker Brigham Young University Provo, Utah.

I scanned it and obtained permission to post it on the web but never followed through. Might do it as a sticky here.

Tom

[Tom Harper]

Rich,

Too bad you didn't have a digital camera!

If you gain access to that area through Engle give me a PM. I can possibly meet you at the Armendaris Ranch Headquarters. The Ranch Manager would be interested in the work. He likes to humor us 'techies'.

I do some volunteer work on the Armendaris. Sometimes drive the power line road. Didn't know anybody else cared about the bird nests. Some are ravens but most are hawks. The hawks show up at the bat caves for and evening snack during the emergence.

Once I get my GPS control system working I want to do some serious photography on the Armendaris. There are swales and mesquite trails through the Lava Gate and on the Jornada.

It is a good time to photograph the area between TorC and Las Cruces. The Space Port is going to destroy some of the road segments. Robledo, Aleman, Perillos and San Diego segments have never been photographed at low altitude.

Do you have the BLM 'Black Book'? This is a map from the Black Book of the area north of Cruces.

Tom

[rloose]

Tom-

Thanks for the map sample. How can I get a copy of the 'Black Book'? I worked as a volunteer for BLM out of the Albuquerque Office in the 1990s.

I used to go arrow head hunting with my father on the Amendaris in the early 1950s. I know this would be a no-no today, but it sure was fun. We often went to a spring that I think shows as 'Terrapin Tank' on the topo maps. I was told it was a stop on the Butterfield Stage line and had been used by the 9th Cavalry Buffalo Soldiers also. My mother found a hat pin there with the crossed sabers from the 9th unit. I still have it. The spring was surrounded by big cottonwood trees. The water had a lot of gypsum in it and would make you sick if you were not used to it. I'll bet the Camino Real went by it for at least watering stock. This spring had one of the biggest scatters of chipped stone litter that I have ever seen. There were Folsom points, archaic points, and I saw a few points made of bottle glass that were surely Apache. What a site!

If you have a contact with the Amendaris Ranch (I think it was called Diamond Ranch or Diamond A ranch when my Dad took me there) there is a lot that could be done with RCAP.

Rich

[rloose]

Tom-

Although I didn't have a camera along, I do remember that the Camino appeared as a swale and there were bigger-than-average mesquite trees growing in it. The staff biologist at PNM told me that mesquite won't germinate unless it passes through an animal's digestive track. So the oxen pulling the Spanish carts probably ate the seed pods and deposited them on the roadway. The oxen 'fertilizer' was a boon to the mesquite seed.

You could see the long line of tall mesquites quite well in some areas.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Sounds like Tusas (Tuscon) Springs. It was definitely an El Camino site.

Do you know where any of those artifacts are now. I'd like to see photograqhs of them. I'm familiar with the site. It is just above the spring.

The photo is of the spring box at Tusas. The Cottonwoods are huge!

Tom

[rloose]

Tom-

Yep, that's it. An old friend of the family from T or C used to refer to it as Tucson Spring. Some locals also call it "Stinking Springs" because the water can sometimes have a sulphur smell. My father had kept just a few Folsom point bases. He has passed away and I am trying to get them from my brother in North Carolina where my father retired. We lived in Truth or Consequences in the late 40s and early 50s. I have the 9th Cavalry hat pin here at the house in Organ. My mother gave it to me several years ago.

There are also some great historic AP possibilities around Elephant Butte Dam. I was told by my Mother that there were anti-aircraft gun emplacements below the dam during WWII. I've seen some structures that might be what she was describing.

I understand that the Pedro Amendaris Grant is now owned by Ted Turner?

I'll PM you about possibilities of meeting and doing some AP flying in the near future.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Rich,

Turner bought the entire grant - 600 square miles. There are some 'in holdings' by Gruet and the Navy base but it is now fenced and closed.

The 'Black Book' is:

El Camino Real Tierra Adentro
National Historic Trail
Comprehensive Management Plan/
Final Environmental Impact Statement

I'll see if I can get a copy on disc.

I look forward to some AP. I want to get my GPS system working for better positioning.

Tom

[rloose]

Hi Tom-

Do you have the Lat/Long for Tuscon Spring? I use USAphotomaps often to do a reconaissance of an area to be photographed from the air. Check out http://www.jdmcox.com if you have not been there. You can switch back and forth between airphotos and top maps of the same area. Zoom in to 1 meter resolution in some areas. This helps me plan the flight as well as find the exact location where I'm going. Google Earth is also useful, but high resolution is spotty in some parts of New Mexico.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Rich,

Sorry for the delay. Tuscon Springs is:

Lat 33 26 00.28

Lon 106 56 13.37

Google earth resolution on the Armendaris is terrible. I'll try jdmcox, thanks!

Tom

[rloose]

Tom-

Thanks. The B/W coverage on USAPhotoMaps is pretty good. I'll work on it this weekend.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Rich,

I finally got around to reading the Chaco book:

"People of Chaco - A Canyon and Its Culture", Kendrick Frazier

He covers some rectilinear patterns in front of Penasco Blanco and Chetro Ketl as irrigated fields. He shows the canals and control gates. Probably not the area you described.

I was impressed when I read, on page 138:

"In the same year," (1976) " a related archaeological survey to locate and document Chacoan communities in the San Juan basin was begun by Richard Loose, soon joined by Michael Marshall and John Stein".

That's a heavy duty team!

I'll start a Chaco thread one of these days. I don't have any material. but that is the best place for vacationing AP'rs to get fantastic material. I don't know about permission in the park, but that is not necessary. The outliers are on public or ranch land and are unattended. Pueblo Pintado is huge - and there's nobody there. Casamero is a few miles off of I-40. It has a great Kiva and a Chaco road. Also, I understand that there are ruins on top of the mesa behind Casamero. Ideal for non intrusive activities like AP. We only take pictures and we don't leave any tracks.

You could spend a day at Casamero and if you saw another vehicle it would be a pick up with hay in the back.

[rloose]

Tom-

I'm still working with John Stein. He is with the Navajo Nations' Chaco Site Protection Program. This is a joint project with the National Park Service. We are planning a project to document the sites outside the park. RC airphotos are part of the plan. When I'm fully retired, I'll be able to devote a lot more time to this than I can right now.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

Rich,

There are some large pueblos west of Socorro that may have a Chaco affinity. I think the label comes from their architectural style. The one at Magdelena has a huge Kiva. Perhaps they were just Chacoans who migrated south when the population began to disperse.

Retired does have the advantage of being self directed. But, then there are so many opportunities. The retireder I get, the bussier I get.

Tom

[skymind]

Tom,

I can't say that I see a trail running thru the circle of (6) trees, I see something going by it though. Also, I'm curious why there would be a trail crossing across that particular wedge shaped depression, seems like a poor place for a trail.

Tom

[Tom Harper]

The trail through the circle of trees is very light. It is more evident on the ground.

Below is an oblique shot (looking east) of the area taken from my model. The circle of trees is on the lower left just out of the frame. I have rotated the 1936 BW so that it is approximately the same orientation and labeled the landmarks and tree groupings.

The ridge of the hill runs from A ->C. The major ascent seems to have been at A with some other traffic at B. I think the trail at this point was simply up the arroyo. They were looking for places to get out of the arroyo and over the hill. The path through the circle of trees leaves the arroyo where there is no embankment. The circle of trees may occur because it was used as a corral. Unlike in the movies, the animals were inside the circle and the people were on the outside.

The trail through the circle would go over the hill at the bottom of the oblique photo. Possibly at C.

There is a trail at T3 that goes between clumps of trees. There is a pile of rocks at the edge of the hill that may have been a cairn. I think it is too far east to be the one that goes through the circle.

[skymind]

With this view I guess that patch of ground doesn't look as much of a problem, especially compared with whats in the background and other areas they would've crossed.

[Tom Harper]

Yep, the hill is the problem. Notice that the ridge blocks the arroyo. If the ridge wasn't there you could just go around the hill.

Tom

[rloose]

Hey Tom-

We used 1930s vintage B&W air photos to look for Chacoan roads at the UNM/NPS "Remote Sensing Lab" in the mid-1970s. They were commissioned by the US Soil Conservation Service (SCS). They were 9X9 inch format and scaled at 1:36,000 if I remember right. One their big advantages was that there was minimum vegetation around Chaco due to the weather patterns and overgrazing at the time. This really made the dark linear Anasazi roads stand out in bold relief. We also had some digital edge enhancement equipment which made faint linearities stand out. There was a lot less "noise" from more recent roads.

Glad to hear you found them and can still use them.

Rich

[Tom Harper]

The more I study the photo the more valuable it gets. It is going to take a lot of ground study.

In post #4 of the Gallery thread, I can plainly see the county road as a path in the upper center of the picture. I cannot see it continue out the arroyo and I can't find it on top of the mesa. So, I'm not sure what to believe. Is it the road or just the arroyo wall? I think the best plan is to take small sections of the photo and match the trees to my aerials. Then try to find road traces using the trees for position reference.

Also, the photo seems to have excellent resolution. I need to do some high resolution scans of a small section to determine what's optimum.

Tom

[skymind]

Friday evening I drove to the Kansas City area to look at an airplane I bought. More specifically, Gardner Kansas, just southwest of Kansas City along hwy 35. Looking at a map at a rest stop it showed the SanteFe trail running thru that area. The map had a nice depiction of the trail across Kansas along with some points of special interest. While driving along the back roads there were a few 'Sante Fe' trail marker signs and I noticed a couple businesses using the Sante Fe name, such as 'Sante Fe Liquors'. Not really worth shooting. Today it's lush green farming country. Along with more recently constructed homes I noticed some homes which would've been built in the 1800's. I also noticed a few remants of a railroad line that ran thru the area, probably established to follow the SanteFe trail.

Within a few weeks I will make an AP sortie down toward Raton pass (on the border between Colorado and NewMexico) and try to include images of some trails and landmarks in the area.

'end of report'

[Tom Harper]

Skymind,

Sounds good.

It's all worth shooting! If it's the trail get some shots. You won't know why you need them until it's too late.

Tom

[skymind]

I had an opportunity to get some of those shots Saturday as I drove back there again. Also in that area is a sign to turn to get to the site of "Battle of Black Jacks", one of the places where John Brown made national headlines at the time.

[Tom Harper]

Skymind,

Those are very interesting photos. We have a new, multi million dollar facility south of here. Fantastic place out in the middle of nowhere:

http://www.caminorealheritage.org/view/index.php?XID=home&language=english

There's not a peep about the trail in Socorro. I'll show your pictures to the mayor. We need to get something started.

Tom

[skymind]

That looks like yet another good place to stop in NewMexico. Before your posts I never realized that trail existed down there. Since it's not part of the anglo development of the continent it gets omitted from history classes.

I once talked with a gal from South Africa and asked if they teach Amercian history (thinking 'cmon guys, why would you study ours as you must have your own history'). She said they had a migration which would've been similar to our wagon trains which they had to learn about. I can't remember the name of it.

Tom

[Tom Harper]

The Trek

A related book is "The Washing of the Spears" by Donald Morris. Great read. He has the definitive chapter on travel using oxen.

Let me know when you are headed this way. I'll show you what we have found.

Tom

[skymind]

I'll definately get the book Tom. And let you know when I'm coming down there.

[Tom Harper]

I was just elected to the Board of Directors of the International Heritage Center:

http://www.caminorealheritage.org/

This honor is largely the result of the RC aerial photography work I have done with Carl Moore.

I think it is a great platform for demonstrating the value of RCAP. I even fantasize about having a convention of RCAP'ers. We could hold it at the Center and have photo flights over choice locations like Ft. Craig, The Jornada del Muerto, Val Verde and Contadera Mesa. It would be worthwhile to demonstrate our ability to take non-intrusive photographs of El Camino and archaeological sites on the Bosque del Apache and Sevilleta National Wildlife Refuges.

Maybe someday.

Tom

[rloose]

Tom-

Good news. Count me in if you ever have a convention. I think the Heritage Center itself would make for an interesting aerial target. It has a unique architectural design. It really stands out in its' stark location.

Rich

[kd7ost]

Hey, that's great news Tom. All of your hard work demonstrates a big personal interest in history. I'm sure the Heritage Center will benefit greatly with your assignment.
Congratulations.

Dan

[skymind]

That's really good to hear Tom. I know you'll certainly be of benefit there.