Could this be a threat to our hobby or worse?

[Wingnut31]

I have been interested in RC planes for a long time and have thought some anout UAV's. Being in the USAF and getting to see some UAV's in action and having to look for terrorest threats a thought occured to me. What kind of danger or harm could someone used a large scale model as a weapon. With the technology that is available and the motivation to cause harm that some people have, isn't it a matter of time before someone builds a drone equipped to carry a dangerous payload?

The method used to build such a UAV is not my focus here, I dont want to encourage anyone to move in this direction of turn this into a terrorists how-to. My worry is that if it happens the danger to the hobby could be great. Law makers could be pushed to set regulations that would limit what, where, and how we fly and build. Imagin having to register our models having to have them inspected or certified. Being limited to only a few places to fly or being limited on the size of out models.

I think it is just a matter of time before we have to deal with this. Has this topic been brought up already?

[kd7ost]

Argghhhh, Here we go again.

Use a rider truck and automobiles. They're the current M.O.
Please lock this thread before this starts up again. Sit and think just for a minute how many ways there are to kill a lot of people and start thinking about shutting all of them them down. Bear in mind ancient people used to stone people to death. The last thing we need is people in our own ranks talking about what havoc we can wreak. Again. Join the good guys. Please.

Dan

[typicalaimster]

http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_137002709.html

Your spoon full of _Terror_ for the week ;)

[Ryan Archer]

HOLY CRAP
RyAn


http://wcbstv.com/local/local_story_137002709.html

Your spoon full of _Terror_ for the week ;)

[Unterhausen]

you'd be insane to use a model airplane when you could use a Cessna. Even a single seat ultralight airplane can carry 200lbs of something that could do real damage. A model airplane can carry 20 lbs if you lie a little.

[workshop]

What is that saying about the government prying my transmitter from my cold dead hands?... :D

I agree with kd7ost; these discussions don’t make one a better UAV designer, external pilot or aerial photographer and that’s what we are here to do.

From an international perspective, our FAA problems are very local indeed and must grow tiresome to the many international readers of these threads. One should write one’s local congressman or newspaper if one has a “homeland” security concern and keep local politics and laws out of an international technology forum. :)

Jeff

[HELModels]

Your spoon full of _Terror_ for the week ;)

I agree that it takes open eyes and alert modelers to protect our hobby. Good citizenship always applies.

[LukeZ]

I wonder if the mods would be willing to move this thread, and others like it, to the "Life, The Universe, and Politics" forum. I'm all for open discussion but these things always turn into a mess, and as workshop pointed out, are hardly even relevant to what this forum is truly about.


Has this topic been brought up already?Sincerely no offence, but yes it has, many tiring and pointless times. At the end of the day, the questions being posed answer themselves, nor are there ultimately any actionable outcomes that come from them. It just gets people's shackles up and makes everyone cranky for a month or so.

Especially Dan... ;)


Luke

[HELModels]

Sucking up wont move it. Getting cranky yet? The automod needs to register certain key phrases and words, and possibly a few warnings need to be issued. When the threshold reaches the magic number, automod kicks in and then MtnGoat joins the discussion. Let me try:

Bush
Democrats
Neocons
Patriot Act
Terror
Al Qaeda
Al Qaida
Al Dente
Al Gore

[randall1959]

During the waning days of WW2 the Japanese tried balloons packed with explosives to fly across the pacific on the Jet stream but they weren't very successful. If terrorists wanted to blow something up it would be much easier to just use a Ryder truck or car as stated in an earlier reply.
Sure, they "could" use an RC plane but if they were that intent it'd be much easier and more effective to load a Cessna up and do it that way. Besides, how ya gonna get those forty virgins if you don't fly it in yourself? :D

[HELModels]

Quit trying to make it a relevant discussion.

[HELModels]

Global Warming
Melting Ice Caps
Hybrids
Fox News

Turn it into something useless

[HELModels]

Let's play Whack-a-Mole

[HELModels]

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=689976

Start linking to LUP, couple of pages of that might do it.

[HELModels]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
throw a few anger icons in there, shake it all up, and bake on 375 for an hour.

[HELModels]

Seriously, all the energy spent on nonsense discussion. How should it be generated? The ocean is the largest source of energy on the planet. It Is The Planet. As it sloshes around due to gravitational pull, it causes huge amounts of water to go in and out of coastal waterways. They call these tides and they are predictable. They can be harnessed without killing fishes. Wave action along shorelines can drive Wells turbines. These turbines were invented by a civil engineer and turn in the same direction regardless of direction of air flow. The blades are symmetrical and as a column of air is compressed and released by wave action, the turbine keeps on spinning in the same direction.

Oh yeah, then there are those whales that swam 200 miles up the Sacramento River. They did it because we are ruining their home, or it could be because their prop strike wounds burn real bad, due to increased salinity, and fresh water eases the pain. Either way, they dont want to be in the ocean. You'd slap your tail too, if some maggot kept banging pots and pans in your face after some other maggot ran you over.

Anyone irritated yet? Cranky? Need a Midol?

[LukeZ]

HA Ha! That's the spirit!

[kd7ost]

Sincerely no offence, but yes it has, many tiring and pointless times. At the end of the day, the questions being posed answer themselves, nor are there ultimately any actionable outcomes that come from them. It just gets people's shackles up and makes everyone cranky for a month or so.

Especially Dan... ;)


Luke


:D :D :D

Naw, I'm going to stay out of the defending of UAV builders this time. I'm out of BP meds. What does Ron White say? "You can't fix Stupid!" You got to let the paranoid ones go. ;)

Dan

[Wingnut31]

WOW forgive me for asking a qusetion. And yes I did join the good guys, Hello!!!!! Im in the USAF and spent more time than I care to in Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi, Qutar, and Bahrain. I'v been shot at enough to confirm who's side I'm on.

I'm sorry I didnt know this was a sore and worn out topic.

[kd7ost]

Nothing personal even if it sounded like it. If you had seen all the previous threads on this subject you would probably understand why it’s such a sore subject. We started off by handling these threads with care and discussion but they seem to escalate pretty fast and go downhill even faster. I guess I’ve gravitated to just trying to slam them as soon as they crop up.

We had one guy from Back East that claimed because he was from New York that he had a better sense for this that people like me who live in Potato Country. He insisted that we contact the Department of Homeland Security and outline how these models can be used in nefarious ways. I think that thread ended up getting completely deleted by the moderators because it decayed so badly. I can't find it anymore.

Many of us feel that in any ones hands, anyone that wants to kill, maim, terrorize, what have you, that almost anything you can get your hands on in daily life can be put to bad use. You're not wrong in stating this can too. But it’s not our charter and we just cringe at the association.

I also know from a source I do business with about the school teacher issue mentioned in that article. The article leans towards sensationalism as that's what it takes to sell papers. UAV guidance packages cannot be exported to countries where they're not approved. Because of the reason you mentioned. The Teacher fell into a conversation with the group and honestly thought he was helping some overseas UAV experimenter. He wasn't knowingly helping any terror group. That’s why we need to be careful here. 911 changed the landscape pretty violently. We help a lot of people and certain things from them can make you wonder. It's best to question when you’re helping someone that states they are from Bagdad.

Anyway, my apologies if I came across like an a$$. I appreciate your service. I myself spent 10 years in the army.

Dan

[randall1959]

The more this topic is debated and rehashed in these forums the more it's thrown in the face of the powers that be. Like kd7 said, anything can be used for good or for bad for the most part. Govt types are a curious lot. The more you make like there's a problem the more they will come to believe it's a problem and overreact. We all know what the capability of an rc plane is probably better than anyone else but there's no real point in going on and on about it unless we want some bureaucrat to take notice and ruin the hobby for all of us. If you see something that makes you worry it's your obligation or duty to report it to the authorities, but it's not anyone's obligation or duty to put gasoline on a fire that up to this point hasn't even existed.

[NorfolkSouthern]

I have been interested in RC planes for a long time and have thought some anout UAV's. Being in the USAF and getting to see some UAV's in action and having to look for terrorest threats a thought occured to me. What kind of danger or harm could someone used a large scale model as a weapon. With the technology that is available and the motivation to cause harm that some people have, isn't it a matter of time before someone builds a drone equipped to carry a dangerous payload?

The method used to build such a UAV is not my focus here, I dont want to encourage anyone to move in this direction of turn this into a terrorists how-to. My worry is that if it happens the danger to the hobby could be great. Law makers could be pushed to set regulations that would limit what, where, and how we fly and build. Imagin having to register our models having to have them inspected or certified. Being limited to only a few places to fly or being limited on the size of out models.

I think it is just a matter of time before we have to deal with this. Has this topic been brought up already?

Although the subject has been brought up in numerous cases on this, and other forums, it's the first time I've actually seen the media and a public official involved. So, it needs some discussion, in my opinion. Whether or not anybody likes it, things have changed since 9/11, especially in areas involving any form of aviation. It is certainly true that owning a gun is considered a Second Amendment right. Many politicians would like to consider a model plane as a delivery device, and there is no place in the Constitution that mentions the right to own one.

We can argue about putting stuff in a full-sized Cessna until we are blue in the face, but this issue is NOT going to go away. We can try looking away and hiding from it while talking about global warming, but it's not going to go away. We can even discuss Paris Hilton and her stay in the slammer, but it'll still be there, looking us directly in the face. We may have to deal with it at some point. I know, it's media hysteria. But it's what the general public sees when they're not directly involved with the hobby.

NorfolkSouthern

(edited for better clarity)

[kd7ost]

I don't know how fully I agree. I mean you are right but the reality is that it isn't a blown up wide open issue. For example, and this is kicking that poor dead horse again, but the biggest way to do damage at present is with Car Bombs. Do we need to discuss getting rid of cars? Nothing in the constitution gives us the right to bear cars. ;)

If you give politicians a reason to have a feel good moment by protecting citizens of the world after telling them how bad a model plane could be, we have lost a lot more than we have gained.

Dan

[NorfolkSouthern]

It's not a blown up wide open issue yet. However, I was a bit surprised to see the article. One good thing that came out of it, is the learning curve, and the possibility that a conspiracy would most likely get shut down before it even starts to come to fruition. In that sense, I doubt if we really have anything to worry about at this point.

I think a partial solution to the hysteria would be to get more positive public exposure. Clubs could sponsor more shows, and perhaps more people should be given the opportunity to try model aviation at one point or other. It's not just for nerds, ya know? I see nothing wrong with better promotion of Control-Line flying either. It's fun! But also, R/C has quite a bit to offer, even for those who are into golf or archery.

The NRA, I believe, has the best idea when it comes to our enjoyment of hobbies that may arouse some negative interest. Their philosophy is to go after the criminals, not the guns that are in the hands of law abiding citizens. It's a part of why conspiracy laws exist, and a reason for the lengthy sentences. The ACLU might not like it, but we have to give the organization some credit for their help in protecting some of the enjoyment of our liberties. After-all, a criminal would simply fashion a razor blade in a toothbrush if that's the only tool he has access to.

NorfolkSouthern

[Wingnut31]

All good points. I have no illusion of a model being used as a WMD but even a small package placed in a crowd can give the bad guys what they want. They feed off of fear; it's their MO. Cars, garbage bags and even dead animals have been used to house an improvised explosive device. Those are the most popular methods used by insurgents now. It is mostly what troops are expecting to encounter. Terror cells are becoming more inventive, as soon as we start to pick up on what they are doing, they change stratagies.

Hopefully this hobby will not become a harmful tool, and I pray that we wont have to stay in the middle east much longer.

Dan I think I jumpped the gun and tossed out a little more attitude than I should have. I apologize. 10 in the Army huh. Ever been to FT Bragg? Right now Im at Pope AFB right next door. I'm polishing off my 10th. I figure I'm half way and might as well finish the next ten. A pension at age 42 wouldnt be too bad.

Brian

[kd7ost]

Dan I think I jumpped the gun and tossed out a little more attitude than I should have. I apologize. 10 in the Army huh. Ever been to FT Bragg? Right now Im at Pope AFB right next door. I'm polishing off my 10th. I figure I'm half way and might as well finish the next ten. A pension at age 42 wouldnt be too bad.

Brian

Naw Brian, we're good. I blew up and am not making excuses. You know the reasons but we're past that now.

I spent my last 4.5 years at Ft Bragg. My best flying buddy lived on Pope AFB. We used to load into C130 or C141's and jump on Ft Bragg from the far side of Pope. You Zoomies used to love to kick us out the door. :D My buddy Bruce and I spent many hours flying on the Parade field at Bragg.

A new forum started recently. It is a little more open ended than just AP or UAVs in a way. Several reasons we discussed to start the forum was to collect threads on using our technology for Science, Historical preservation and Discovery. But we also wanted to showcase the value of what we can do with Model planes and low altitude, low range UAVs. I don't know what else to do for us except to keep doing work like that and providing a location where people can go to see that there can be public benefits to what we do. Everyone is invited. It's so new it's still in the 30 day trial period. Come over and have a look see. It would be great to get others participating in some of these ideas.

I think the more we collect these kinds of threads, the more politicians or newspaper people will have an uphill battle to say we have toys, hobby outlets or weapons.

Be sure to read the Rules for posting thread first. We’re trying to do things a bit different by creating two threads for most every mission covered. That way it allows the person doing the research to keep adding to the working thread without it getting cluttered with remarks. A separate thread is for the remarks. I’m not sure that’s working out right now as you’ll see some threads are still combining pictures and comments. Just something to be aware of.

Dan

http://www.rcgroups.com/aerial-photography-for-scientific-and-historical-discovery-484/

[NorfolkSouthern]

Dan has some very strong points. I have an interest in industrial archeology, and a small UAV can be handy in picking out some abandoned railroad beds, and then plot areas of where factories once stood. Also, they can be of good use for agriculture regarding the study of former oilfields, and how well crops are holding up where the well was capped, as compared to the rest of the field. That information alone can be gathered inexpensively, and used to determine compliance by the former owner of that well. It's just one example. Perhaps one day, telling a business that they can't use their UAV will be like telling a bakery to get rid of their Hobart mixer!

In as far as this thread is concerned, perhaps it can be turned into a good thing. For example: A new neighbor moves to a given community. About a week later, dozens of cars start pulling in, and then leaving. Loud music thumps constantly, and graffiti starts to appear on the walls of local businesses and alleys. Eventually, someone suspects that drugs are being sold from that particular property. Law enforcement takes notice, busts the dope dealers, and essentially shuts down the operation. If people in the hobby act as though they're a part of a community, I honestly don't think criminals would have a chance to get very far with their plans. No need for suspicion. But if someone starts bragging about putting their Funtana through somebody's windshield, then that may be worth investigating. We need to target criminals, not our individual rights and privileges.

NorfolkSouthern

[kd7ost]

Dan has some very strong points. I have an interest in industrial archeology, and a small UAV can be handy in picking out some abandoned railroad beds, and then plot areas of where factories once stood. Also, they can be of good use for agriculture regarding the study of former oilfields, and how well crops are holding up where the well was capped, as compared to the rest of the field. That information alone can be gathered inexpensively, and used to determine compliance by the former owner of that well. It's just one example. Perhaps one day, telling a business that they can't use their UAV will be like telling a bakery to get rid of their Hobart mixer!

In as far as this thread is concerned, perhaps it can be turned into a good thing. For example: A new neighbor moves to a given community. About a week later, dozens of cars start pulling in, and then leaving. Loud music thumps constantly, and graffiti starts to appear on the walls of local businesses and allies. Eventually, someone suspects that drugs are being sold from that particular property. Law enforcement takes notice, busts the dope dealers, and essentially shuts down the operation. If people in the hobby act as though they're a part of a community, I honestly don't think criminals would have a chance to get very far with their plans. No need for suspicion. But if someone starts bragging about putting their Funtana through somebody's windshield, then that may be worth investigating. We need to target criminals, not our individual rights and privileges.

NorfolkSouthern

I know it sounds a bit cliche, But Amen Brother. Let's show what good we can do and have fun with flying too. We will be the experts on doing new good things with RC.

Dan

[ThaiskyDigital]

I appreciate your service. I myself spent 10 years in the army.

Dan


OH Dan

I never know that the very nice device I got last time is came from the hand of army guy.

Very impress and I will also how to return the possitive result to help army social work in my area too.

Thank again Dan

[kd7ost]

OH Dan

I never know that the very nice device I got last time is came from the hand of army guy.

Very impress and I will also how to return the possitive result to help army social work in my area too.

Thank again Dan

Hey Tanate,

How are you? Yep, us Army guys are regular people. :D How is your project coming along? Or should I say projects. You seem to be doing a lot of things.

It would be great if you could take some pictures of some some Temples in Thailand and post them with a story on the new forum. Most of us don't get to see very much from your part of the world and it holds a lot of allure and fascination for us.

Dan

[Wingnut31]

I like that set of threads. I think my greatest use would be to get out over the old gravel mine to find some of the holes that cant be found from the ground. I love to fish out there cause one there is no agrecultural or industrial run-off no trash, and only a few people can fish out there. There are some pits and small ox-bows around here that are unknown to people. Such places have the best fishing I ever had.

[kd7ost]

Sounds cool Brian. Keep us posted if you don't mind.

Dan

[randall1959]

Actually I think the prospect of using a model plane to blow something up is less likely because of several factors. Let's say you want to heft a model plane weighing around 20 lb into the air. That would require a fair amount of space, open space. Next, it would create a lot more interest immediately from the general public. It would be very hard to conceal something that large long enough to get it airborne. If you were to try to fly even a "harmless" rc plane near a place that was sensetive you would attract a LOT of attention very quickly.
If you were wanting to launch something capable of blowing something else up, it would be much quicker and easier to simply get out of your car, fire a shoulder fired missile, then leave just as quickly. Simple as pointing a gun.
The main objective of any assassin is concealment. Why do you think Timothy McVeigh used a Ryder truck? To keep from arousing interest. The main weapon of any attacker would be stealth.
Hit them with what they least expect. A model plane would arouse far too much susipicion to be a viable weapon. Especially in an urban environment or near any sensetive target.
I would hope that any prospective terrorist would realise that using an rc plane or even a UAV of some sort would be basically like trying to make a shot in the dark. It would be nearly impossible for him or her to guarentee any success whatsoever.

[NorfolkSouthern]

Good point, randall1959. Recently, a hobbyist decided to get some photos of a football game. So, he flew his Slow Stick over the packed stadium during the game. Dumb move on his part for sure, because the cops were waiting for him to land. What ever happened to him since then, I haven't a clue. But he won't be doing it again, even if he doesn't have to spend time in jail. I think he at least ran into some financial difficulties after that episode.

I think the main issue the FAA has, is in avoiding full-scale aircraft. And after that, protecting the "good old boy" network. Hobbyists are more likely to have localized problems as a result of their own carelessness. Parks get closed to R/C all the time due to complaints from local residents. It certainly doesn't make it much easier for those with small electrics, and it makes it more difficult for those who wish to persue the UAV hobby for scientific interests. I would certainly enjoy AP as a hobby, but I am not sure what type of attention my interests would draw from folks around my vicinity. So, I tend to be somewhat hesitant for the time being.

My own observations, is that these reporters and politicians will somehow get discredited for making a small issue a big one. But, the networks make money off of this stuff, just like they do when they broadcast Jerry Springer!

NorfolkSouthern

[clolson]

The main objective of any assassin is concealment. Why do you think Timothy McVeigh used a Ryder truck? To keep from arousing interest.

I should have listened to Dan's advice at the start of this thread and not jumped into this discussion at all ... :-)

I hear that the FBI is really good at tracking back to determine who owned the left over bits after an explosion. I seem to recall they had the serial # off the rider truck very quickly and were hot on the trail. Once you start looking at combinations of things ... who bought both this gizmo and that gizmo and combine that with a list of who would have had the ability to do something, your list of suspects can get really short really quick.

Here's a random bit of interesting irony. I and my family were driving back from Dallas to MN after visiting my folks for Christmas. It just so happened that the govt's investigation into the investigation of the OK City bombing was released that day, and we were driving through OK and found a radio station that was reading the report verbatim.

This final, final investigation was an attempt to silence all the conspiracy theorists ... not that it did any good. But interestingly, they tracked down McVeigh's every move going back something like a year ... which restaurants he went to, when he visted which storage locker, who he visited, etc ... down to an *incredible* level of detail. All of this was in the report. This report even stated the mile marker on I-35 where McVeigh was pulled over for speeding and apprehended.

Coincidently, as they read the mile marker over the radio station, we were one mile away, heading in the correct direction. I found it interesting that the roadway leading up to pull over spot was a *really* long, slow, steady incline. Your car could easily start to bog down just a bit, and if you weren't paying close attention, it would be very easy to let your speed run up too high when you compensated (assuming no cruise control.) And very conveniently, there was an overpass at the top of the long incline for a state patrol to hide behind.

Sort of weird and freaky how the timing of that worked out, but I could see where the spot would be a favorite speed trap.

So anyway, my point when I started (if I had one) was probably something along the lines of a person or group is going to have to be *really* smart, *really* careful, and very lucky if they do something stupid and it isn't traced back to themselves in about 20 minutes. And as someone else mentioned, a model airplane doesn't have nearly the capicity of many other delivery mechanisms that require much less skill and technology to operate. Beyond R/C airplanes, the community of folks that buys and discusses AP/UAV equipment is very small.

I'll toss one more tidbit in here at the end for free. I do know that the FBI maintains lists of folks that cause concern, or associate with people that are a cause for concern. If someone is really up to something, it doesn't take all that long for them to hit the list multiple times, and as soon as that happens, these people are watched *very* closely.

I'm not sure how I feel about all this ... certainly an element of me is concerned about erosion of liberties and it makes me nervous how closely we are watched at times. On the other hand, as a father of two small children, I welcome the protection, even dumb things like strict enforcement of speed limits, and a physical presence of law enforcement in my neighborhood.

So despite what you hear if you only listen to the media, there are a lot of smart, hard working folks, doing a lot of *really* smart things behind the scenes on our behalf to keep us safe here and abroad. They aren't perfect of course, and not everything the do or have done is entirely smart, but personally I very much respect the hard work, determination, and self sacrifice of those that are putting their own lives on the line to protect us.

Curt.

[macboffin]

Officialdom is well aware of the potential problems; and there have been programmes running for several years regarding the countering of such threats. I speak from personal knowlege having been involved in such programmes. Further information will not be forthcoming, but rest assured that it is being taken care of.I would counsel that speculation on such matters is best not posted.

[randall1959]

clolson, I hear ya about Timothy McVeigh. The forensics afterward were what brought him down. The point I was making was the "before" part. He used something that didn't stand out at first. It's not easy for the "public" to spot something awry when you're using an every day item.
But a model plane would generate interest from the public at large immediately. My thought is that we have more to worry about with an errant plane causing a fire or some other such event than we do about an actual intentional missuse. But accidents can and do happen and not just to model planes.
That truck that burned the overpass in california comes to mind. Having said that, you still see all kinds of tankers on the highways.

[randall1959]

My own observations, is that these reporters and politicians will somehow get discredited for making a small issue a big one. But, the networks make money off of this stuff, just like they do when they broadcast Jerry Springer!

NorfolkSouthern

Personally I never understood why they are basically telling terrorists how to hit targets like that natural gas tanker that goes into some large harbor out east. Sometimes I think the media try to create problems where none existed before just to scare people and get big ratings.

[NorfolkSouthern]

Reporters are very intelligent people, Randall. They have interpersonal skills that are over and above most people. I wouldn't put the ability to sell a refrigerator to an eskimo beyond their capabilities. In addition to that, many such individuals have their own agenda in mind when they present their observations to the public.

One incident in California involving the Bay Bridge and a tanker truck has caused quite a stir among the media. Perhaps, for a good reason as the driver of the truck had an extensive criminal history. He passed the background check in spite of it, because there were no new offences for the last 10 years before he was granted the endorsement. I am sure it would have been even easier for him to pass if he merely had a serious and persistant mental illness.

The driver was speeding when he took the corner, just before hitting the bridge, which cause a massive fire of 8,000 gallons of gasoline. This alone, I believe, will result in even more extensive background checks on drivers than are already required. Thankfully, nothing on this scale has ever happened within the hobby, and I expect it never will. However, the reporters in this case will get their ideas across to the policy makers I'm sure. I think much of that is part of the reason for the media telling the terrorists how to hit targets. They just go at it differently from organizations like Greenpeace or PETA (I call it "P.I.T.A", short for "pain in the ***").

NorfolkSouthern

[kd7ost]

I would counsel that speculation on such matters is best not posted.

Agreed. ;)

Dan

[randall1959]

Agreed. ;)

Dan
Amen :D

[macboffin]

I have been interested in RC planes for a long time and have thought some anout UAV's. Being in the USAF and getting to see some UAV's in action and having to look for terrorest threats a thought occured to me. What kind of danger or harm could someone used a large scale model as a weapon. With the technology that is available and the motivation to cause harm that some people have, isn't it a matter of time before someone builds a drone equipped to carry a dangerous payload?

The method used to build such a UAV is not my focus here, I dont want to encourage anyone to move in this direction of turn this into a terrorists how-to. My worry is that if it happens the danger to the hobby could be great. Law makers could be pushed to set regulations that would limit what, where, and how we fly and build. Imagin having to register our models having to have them inspected or certified. Being limited to only a few places to fly or being limited on the size of out models. The "Predator" is a "drone", (Better called a UCAV, Uninhabited Combat Air Vehicle) which can carry "Hellfire" missiles, has been used in this role.Yes, been done!

I think it is just a matter of time before we have to deal with this. Has this topic been brought up already? The Predator uav can carry, target, and fire Hellfire missiles.They cause harm.Usually, it seems, to civilians.

[Wingnut31]

With the old saying about flogging a dead horse, Im gonna call an end to this thread.