Motor Suggestions for Large Electrics

[chongchong]

Any suggestions for motor manufacturers for large electric planes? I've been partial to AXI's, but I thought I'd look into other motors. I'm building a Bucker Jungmeister (1/4 scale) and I was going to go with an AXI motor, but, I was thinking of trying something different. I want to use an outrunner but might try a geared motor.

Here's a picture of my latest plane, which uses an AXI 4130, a Travel Air Mystery Ship:

[tIANcI]

I just got the DualSky motors, the quaity is good, not run them yet but there are people in RCGroups who have and there is no complain. 2DogsRC stocks them ... a lot cheaper than the AXIs but again not as efficient.

[Larry3215]

deleted - see my blog
Larry

[staggerwing]

Is the Bucker your building the 1/4 66" Dave Platt version ?

[AmpAce]

I like the one Hyperion outrunner that I have tried. The high wind versions in the larger sizes will turn fairly large props, to get you into the scale prop size range.

I'm using a 4020/16, which easily handles a 16X10 prop on 4s lipos. The Hyperion seems to be quite a bit more efficient than the Axi 2826/12 which it replaced. They are a very well built motor.

Hyperion makes some outrunners that are quite a bit larger than this, but still may not be large enough for your project.

Aircraft World carries them, (http://www.aircraft-world.com/default.asp) as does All e RC, among others, ( http://www.allerc.com/).

AmpAce

[Dennis C]

Check S.D. Raptors thread , some very good information about the geared motors. What do you expect your all up weight to be?

Absolute maxeffeciency may not be necessary if you are going to just fly sport aerobatics. the Nue will be lighter and more effecient. It will cost double what a Hyperion will cost. So do you need that last 5% effeciency?

Is the Travel Air Mystery Ship one of the Fred Reese kits?

Fred was a close friend and I was with him for the Maiden of the proto type. a great flying airplane.

Dennis

[sneu]

Check S.D. Raptors thread , some very good information about the geared motors. What do you expect your all up weight to be?

Absolute maxeffeciency may not be necessary if you are going to just fly sport aerobatics. the Nue will be lighter and more effecient. It will cost double what a Hyperion will cost. So do you need that last 5% effeciency?



Depends on what you want--5% may now sound like much but at 3000 watts the difference between a motor that is 90% efficient will generate 300 watts waste heat and a 85% efficient motor you lose 450 watts. The less efficient motor has to deal with 50% more waste heat. The advantage is larger than the 5% might suggest. The less efficient motor gets hotter and has to be larger and heavier to handle the extra heat for a given power level.

Steve Neu

[Larry3215]

deleted - see my blog
Larry

[ScaleBrad]

Take a look at the E-flite Power 110 or Power 160. I have a 160 on the way for my 1/4 Decathlon... Spins a 20x10 prop on 10S, plus the e-flite motors include prop adapters and bullet connectors, and are very robust and inexpensive....

[chongchong]

Is the Travel Air Mystery Ship one of the Fred Reese kits?

Fred was a close friend and I was with him for the Maiden of the proto type. a great flying airplane.

Dennis

Yep, it's a Fred Reese kit. I won it on ebay. It was a great kit to build. Probably one of the best quality kits I've constructed. Quality, and great instructions. It flies and looks great in the air. Love those high speed passes with the AXI screaming!

The Jungmeister is a short kit from Arizona Model Aircrafters. The kit comes with a fiberglass cowl, wheels and fender, and the ribs and formers all laser cut. I wouldn't recommend the kit for a beginner.

Thanks for the info on the motors! Time to start browsing through the web pages... :D

[sneu]

Take a look at the E-flite Power 110 or Power 160. I have a 160 on the way for my 1/4 Decathlon... Spins a 20x10 prop on 10S, plus the e-flite motors include prop adapters and bullet connectors, and are very robust and inexpensive....

And heavy for the power they produce. High power and efficiency in a light weight package costs more than the heavy options.....

Steve

[Bodywerks]

And heavy for the power they produce. High power and efficiency in a light weight package costs more than the heavy options.....

Steve
Agreed. I have your 2215/2y/6.7 in my 35% 260. Currently, I am at 27 pounds all-up and only getting about 4950 watts, or about 180 watts/pound, yet I can still easily hover and pull out and the motor is only at about 115 degrees after a 6 minute flight. Yours is the first geared inrunner I have owned, as I used to be partial to the outrunners, but the loss of power in the form of heat with them becomes a HUGE waste as you get into this size of plane! If I had a 5,000 watt outrunner in this plane, I am sure I would be disappointed...

[ScaleBrad]

And heavy for the power they produce. High power and efficiency in a light weight package costs more than the heavy options.....

Steve

Yes they are heavy. However on many scale planes with short noses you need the nose weight anyhow so that is also something to consider.

[sneu]

Yes they are heavy. However on many scale planes with short noses you need the nose weight anyhow so that is also something to consider.


Put the battery as far foward as possible and use a large battery--fly longer:) Better to get something useful out of the extra weight.

Steve

[LaxLife]

Neu Motors are probably the state of the art. Hackers are great too and they've got the 100 and 200 series outrunners coming out soon (next month?). Hint: they have a standard six bolt prop flange When paired with one of their 300 amp ESC's they'll make 40 pound planes practical.
www.hackerbrushless.com
Read Jocke's thread on Predator motors in a 10,000 watt Katana--great video!

[rcelectfly]

Hint: they have a standard six bolt prop flange

That type of prop flange is good for gas motors but is not necessary for electric motors that do not have the large impact loads on the prop when the fuel is ignited. It weighs more that it needs to.

Check out this link for the latest on Castle Creations SHV controller in conjunction with the NeuMotors GBAM motor powering a 46% Ultimate Bipe.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=688499

Chuck

[Bodywerks]

Yep, the A150 by itself weighs 4.6 pounds and needs a 14S 10,000mah pack, which is about an additional 6.5 pounds!!! With the ESC, you are looking at a more than 11 pound powerplant for a 35% airframe, compared to about 8 pounds for the Neu. Sure, the power of the outrunner is rediculous and will yank a 30 pound plane out of a hover, but there is TONS of efficiency lost by using a standard gas prop, and through the general poor efficiency of outrunners. Add that to the fact that you are WORKING those 10,000 mah packs HARD, and you have a 30 pound plane when you could have a 27 pound plane.

[Jocke]

Looking at the smal predator @ 1,5kg including prop mount and motor mount handling 10-12kw 88-90%.

Controller for 20s must be for US market, seems like EU will only alow 14s max for modell plane.

[Jocke]

"the general poor efficiency of outrunners."


Hehe... ;)

[tIANcI]

sneu - your motors are YUMMEE just that a price has to be paid for something that premium. Its true that 5%-10% does not seem much on its own but when you talk about losing that much in terms of a 10,000 RPM performance then you are down by 700 RPM. I guess cheap and less efficient motors are ok if you wanna just putter about.

[Bodywerks]

"the general poor efficiency of outrunners."


Hehe... ;)
That's exactly right. Even that Predator, although lighter than the Hacker, is useless at anything under 14S, and swings a smaller prop at higher RPM, which means less efficiency still. And you have to consider the weight of the ESC to run it, which is like an additional 280 grams. That Yak they powered with this motor typically only weighs 25-27 pounds, full of fuel, when powered by a DA 100, yet theirs weighed 29-30. Whereas my 35% Neu-powered plane typically weighs 28-30 pounds, wet, with a DA 100, while I am just under 27 pounds.

[Jocke]

Well... you dont have to run it at 15s if you dont want to! you can start at 10s and a bigger prop, i promise you it will work, i have tryed, but the prop will be to big for nice clean arobatics, and current to high to get good overall eff, yes in teory a bigger prop is better, but it have to work good in real life to on the plane, and for me best overall is 15s higher voltage, lower Amp- better eff and not to big prop to get to much torq movement. If one want another wind with higher KV or lower... just order one! simple as that, hehe you can even put a belt drive on it.

After a few years now cooperating directly with manufactors in europe and asia, i know for a fact that an outrunner can be as efficient as an inrunner or better, and same or better power-weight, this kind of propaganda regarding outrunner-inrunner is mostly found on Ezone these days... i wonder why ;) sorry... i dont fall for it anymore, i have come to know better.

[Bodywerks]

Don't get me wrong, I like outrunners and use them on smaller stuff, but I don't like the idea of increasing my AUW by going to electric. Even if I do have more power, I now have a higher wingloading. I saw that Comparf Yak fly in person - it flew heavy. Now, I also saw Berndt Fly his Raven - when you get to that size, the outrunner appears to be an advantage over current inrunner choices. But, Neu hasn't released his MOM yet:D

[Jocke]

Why have the auw have to be more? just becas one wants to use HV doasent mean the weight will be more, to get same power with less voltage one needs more current, batterys that can handle more current are also havier. Lighter batterys with less Volt and bigger prop is no problem, its up to you, works good on an outrunner also.


Would be nice if everyone could drop all this outrunner VS inrunner propaganda on Ezone and talk about electric flight instead!

[Bodywerks]

Why have the auw have to be more?
That's just it, it doesn't have to be more, but it is heavier with that A150, compared to a DA 100 powered or Neupowered version of the same plane. Between the DA, wet with fuel, the Neu, and the Hacker, the hacker is the heaviest of them all, plain and simple fact right there.

[Jocke]

Nop doasent have to be more! regarding Hacker AXXX serie and the bigger BAM i dont know, need more data, hard to say anything only comparing weight and prop size, most of the times one needs to test and compare in real life. But im having hard time to belive the DA can compete with AXXX regarding preformance ;)

[rcjake]

Any suggestions for motor manufacturers for large electric planes? I've been partial to AXI's, but I thought I'd look into other motors. I'm building a Bucker Jungmeister (1/4 scale) and I was going to go with an AXI motor, but, I was thinking of trying something different. I want to use an outrunner but might try a geared motor.

Here's a picture of my latest plane, which uses an AXI 4130, a Travel Air Mystery Ship:


When I built (?) my Great Planes 160 size Ultimate biplane, I used a PJS 3D 10000 brushless outrunner, MGM 120 amp ESC, 2 (two) Tanic 7300mAh 5s2p lipo packs wired in series and a PJS 22 x 12 Electric Carbon Fiber prop. The Ultimate came in at 16 lbs and GP states that it whould weight between 12 & 14 lbs, so I was two lbs over. The Ultimate didn't know it.

The power was awsome and I could get two 10 minute scale-like aerobatic flights on one charge flying at 1/2 throttle. Of course, if I flew using more full throttle (which really got the adreneline going!) the flight time went down. It was very fun, though, to go vertical, rolling, right after a short take-off and hear the gasps from the crowd.

PJS now offers a 3 year warranty on their motors...I do not think that any other manufacturer offers this. And, the MGM esc is the best that I have ever used, although pricey. Tanics, well what can you say about them? Just great and the PJS Electric Carbon Fiber prop is both beautiful & efficient

A fellow modeler wanted my Ultimate, but not the power system, so I am looking for a home for it. Maybe a GP YAK 54, GP Pitts, ???

Jerry

[kelberts]

Welgard for inexpensive and well-made.

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=A2586784&pid=W001765

[Bodywerks]

Nop doasent have to be more! regarding Hacker AXXX serie and the bigger BAM i dont know, need more data, hard to say anything only comparing weight and prop size, most of the times one needs to test and compare in real life. But im having hard time to belive the DA can compete with AXXX regarding preformance ;)
I will not argue that the A150 (the motor recommended to replace a 100CC powerplant) will flat out-pull a DA, I have seen it in person - it hauls balls! My point is that the A150 and 14S 10,000's were in a QQ 102" yak and the plane weighed 30 pounds (or at least the high 29's) with batteries, whereas the exact same plane typically weighs around 28.5 pounds with a DA and a tank full of fuel. The Neu 2215 would weigh about 27 pounds or less, with batteries. Will it out-power the Hacker? No way in hell, but it is more than enough to hover and will fly better overall, due to the FACT that it is 3 pounds lighter. In 3D and general aerobatics, thrust-to-weight is only half the game. Wing area to weight (wingloading) is equally important. For ALL aerobatics, I would rather have a 1.5:1 thrust/weight ratio and a light wingloading over a 2.5: thrust/weight and a much heavier wingloading.
I like the idea of these big Hacker outrunners, but the A100 is too underpowered for typical 100CC birds and the A150 is too heavy.

[Jocke]

Once again i must say that you dont have to go for 14sXp batts, it all depends on what you want to do and how you will fly the bird, how to get to the power is up to you, 10s or 14s- Amp or Voltage- big prop or less big prop ;)

[Bodywerks]

I hear you, but the A150 motor itself is already too heavy (almost 5 pounds)- can't change that. And I saw it fly with a 12S battery and like a 29X14 prop (I think they used a 28X12 on 14S) and it was a dog. Besides, as the cells go down, the amps have to go up to maintain the watts, which means the battery capacity needs to go up if you don't want to cook the batteries or have 4 minute flights, and the size (and weight) of the prop needs to go up. Therefore, the weight change is practically zero for all practical applications.

[Jocke]

"Besides, as the cells go down, the amps have to go up to maintain the watts"

Thats exactly my point! in the end you have same weight but the setup with highest Voltage will have higher total eff.




I still dont know eff data of the Hackers or there max power level, when these data is avalible one can see if the design is to havy.

[GordonTarling]

Thought I'd continue this thread rather than start a fresh one - keep all the info in the one place.

I'm looking for a motor for my next 'overwinter' project. It'll be a 108" span towplane with weight predicted to be around 20 pounds. I was planning to use 14S Lipo pack initially, but feel that the care of such large packs isn't quite fully catered for yet, so will have to plump for 12S. Prop size will be 22" to 24". My rough calculations show that I'm going to need around 4kW of power in order to be able to tow a reasonable size glider, so what motors are out there that can give that sort of power level?

I've looked at the Plettenberg Terminator 30-8, which will certainly do the job, but at nearly 800 Euros, it's a bit beyond my pocket. I know that Gary Wright is happy with around 4kW out of his Hacker A60-18L, but I feel that's pushing that motor a little too far. Any other suggestions?

[Jocke]

Pletti Terminator sould be a good alternative, seems right when you want to juse 12s and 22-24"

[GordonTarling]

Jocke - yes, the Terminator will work, but is expensive! Anyone here any experience of the larger Torcman motors?

[FlyingW]

How about the Astro 120 in some kind of belt drive reduction for 24" prop. Back of envelope calcs using 12s lipo approaches 2000 watts. Astro specs the motr at 2000 - 4000 watts.

[Jocke]

Jocke - yes, the Terminator will work, but is expensive! Anyone here any experience of the larger Torcman motors?


The Torcman works good, specialy the Tritons, bigger ones are little havy. Terminator is Expensive, but you get what you pay fore ;) you can also have a closer look at the actro 60L for 12s setup.

[GordonTarling]

FlyingW - Thanks for that suggestion - it looks a possible candidate, but I'm not sure how a 1.4:1 belt drive could be coupled to that motor.

Jocke - Thanks, I'll investigate those!

[KatManDEW]

I hear you, but the A150 motor itself is already too heavy (almost 5 pounds)- can't change that. And I saw it fly with a 12S battery and like a 29X14 prop (I think they used a 28X12 on 14S) and it was a dog. Besides, as the cells go down, the amps have to go up to maintain the watts, which means the battery capacity needs to go up if you don't want to cook the batteries or have 4 minute flights, and the size (and weight) of the prop needs to go up. Therefore, the weight change is practically zero for all practical applications.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto. It's all plain to see if you take an unbiased, logical look at it. The outies are often heavier, and always require more input power for the same output power. Not a big deal on a foamy, but really significant on bigger birds. I really like the idea of gearless, but I don't like heavier planes and less efficiency.

Regardless of weight, if I can fly a plane with the same output power (real, tangible in-flight power), at 6kW or 10kW, which would I choose? I would choose to not waste thousands of watts.

I've been playing with motor calculators, and watching and comparing reports of setups, and the input power. And in every instance the outrunner users are reporting much higher wattages than folks with a geared setup on the same plane.

Then recently it struck home when I replaced a cheap geared motor on a plane with a top-of-the-line outrunner. I get about the same in-flight power with the outrunner, but the cheap geared setup was doing it at a hair over 1000 watts, and the outrunner requires over 1250 watts.

When I was a kid, my dad always told me to turn the lights off when I left a room, so I don't like wasting electricity :)

[Jocke]

"When I was a kid, my dad always told me to turn the lights off when I left a room, so I don't like wasting electricity"

Same for me, thats why i mostly use DD outrunner for motorplanes, specialy aerobatic.

Hearing, speaking and asking motor manufactors in hobby and industry about all this outrunner, geared, DD.... is quite interesting, specialy when they have runned alot of diffrent motors in dyno one getts a clear picture of things ;)

[KatManDEW]

When a setup needs more watts to fly a plane, that means it needs more batteries to provide those watts (more volts and/or current, which means more series cells and/or parallel cells). Doesn't take a dyno to figure that out. More batteries means more weight and more money. Doesn't take a dyno to figure that out.

I would love to go gearless, but it seems foolish to me to fly a plane with 8000-10,000 watts, if I can get good performance, and less weight, with 5000-6000 watts.

[Jocke]

Maby you are comparing with the large Hackers, but its hard to say good or bad about them when we dont know how they realy performe, same goes with the larger Predator. I have 10kw+ on a 13kg plane, would the power be more with 5kw 10-11kg...no, could i go with a lighter setup with an outrunner in the nose...yes.

[KatManDEW]

I have 10kw+ on a 13kg plane, would the power be more with 5kw 10-11kg

It's not just a question of watts. It's also a question of how effectively those watts are being converted to flight power.

[Chuck McHugh]

[QUOTE=GordonTarling]Thought I'd continue this thread rather than start a fresh one - keep all the info in the one place.

I'm looking for a motor for my next 'overwinter' project. It'll be a 108" span towplane with weight predicted to be around 20 pounds. I was planning to use 14S Lipo pack initially, but feel that the care of such large packs isn't quite fully catered for yet, so will have to plump for 12S. Prop size will be 22" to 24". My rough calculations show that I'm going to need around 4kW of power in order to be able to tow a reasonable size glider, so what motors are out there that can give that sort of power level?

Gordon, I have ued a few of these PJS motors(smaller size) http://www.visionhobbies.com/1148378.html This should do itand on a budget!
Chuck

[Jocke]

It's not just a question of watts. It's also a question of how effectively those watts are being converted to flight power.


Exactly!!!

[KatManDEW]

If you need more watts to fly an airplane, versues another setup which will fly it with less watts, then it would seem obvious that those additional watts are not being effectively converted into flight power.....

[Jocke]

If you need more watts to fly an airplane, versues another setup which will fly it with less watts, then it would seem obvious that those additional watts are not being effectively converted into flight power.....


Yes !?

[realtimerecon]

E flight.....all the way !

[heli_bee]

Gordon,
I have recently had a quick spin up of the 160 size DualSky motor (XM6360CA-12)
which is designed to turn up to a 23x11 prop on 10S. I bench ran my motor on 9S, as that is all I had, and turned a 22x8 wooden prop. Please don't ask me what the rpm was, suffice to say I was nearly blown off my feet. The current draw was only 42A at max throttle, pulling just over 1.4kw. I did not have a bigger prop to try and anyway my lipos are only 10C 5400mAh, but at only 70GBP for the motor I cannot complain.
Martin G.

[vampire67]

Any suggestions for motor manufacturers for large electric planes? I've been partial to AXI's, but I thought I'd look into other motors. I'm building a Bucker Jungmeister (1/4 scale) and I was going to go with an AXI motor, but, I was thinking of trying something different. I want to use an outrunner but might try a geared motor.

Here's a picture of my latest plane, which uses an AXI 4130, a Travel Air Mystery Ship:
While in the mean time the thread sliped to giant scale :rolleyes:
Nobody mentioned yet the Kontronik KoraTop series.
It's only slightly more expensive than the AXI41xx series, but the quality is way higher.
We hat a few AXI problems in the past in our club. Mainly loose magnets and similar mayham .

The KoraTop series comes with an additional ringbearing on the magnet bell. It also features a rather well designed radial fan.
The addon fan on the larger AXIs seems like a self made design compared to this.

Performance is great. A club mate uses the KoraTop 30/14 on only 6S in a 7pound Sebart Katana using a Ramoser 14 or 15" 4 blade prop.
http://www.flugton.de/uploads/pics/DSCN1209.jpg
Test have resulted in the owner stopping any atempt to get more power from the Kontronik. He was already fearing to disintegrate the Katana from the shear thust forces.

I have a 30/16 in standby for a 10pound warbird. Should drive a 16/17" 4 blade with ~5000rpm at ~6kg thrust.
All with moderate 6s.
Give it a 8 to 10S with appropiate prop and you can get even more power...

Peter

P.S. the Kontronik manual is very conservative.
The peak load in the Katana is well beyound the recommendations. The KoraTop simply stays cool.

[Tipover]

Wow! thats one beauty of a prop. What size wingspan is that Katana? Very nice looking plane.

Kevin

[KatManDEW]

Where can we find info on the Kontronik KoraTop series?

[hermperez]

very pretty!, who is a dealer for Kontronics?

http://www.kontronik.com/KoraBig2006e.htm

[vampire67]

Wow! thats one beauty of a prop. What size wingspan is that Katana? Very nice looking plane.

It's a Sebart Katana S50, ~1,5m spann.
http://www.sebart.it/!-html/katanaS-E.htm

The prop is a Ramoser Varioprop which was custom spray painted to resemble the real one.
He had to go for 4 bladed as he used a 17 or 18" 2 blade before and that's already cutting gras. So he was stuck with the power.

regards

Peter

P.S. We get the KoraTop 30 locally for ~140€ while paying ~130€ for the AXI4130. So the choise is simple comparing both motors.
We schould not forget that the AXI is a DIY motor concept perverted to ARF. We should expect a professional vendor to realy add value to the concept.
The KoraTop series does exactly this.

[LaxLife]

Does anyone have a lead on a US dealer for the KoraTop?

[Jocke]

I love the Kora motors, they are up competing with the Pletti Orbits, very nice bearing suport on housing and great cooling fetures.

[staggerwing]

If you look at "Kontronic USA" for info on any items, it will give an e-mail address to Great Planes & also states they are the exclusive distributors in the US & Canada so it seems that's the current dealer monopoly.

[747drvr]

Icare is selling them . I may have to give one a try . Looks really nice !

Marc

Check out:http://www.icare-rc.com/kontronik.htm

[solomonx]

What would be a good electric equivalent of the DA-50? Searching through the threads I have found solutions for larger and smaller gas engines, but nothing definitive for the 50cc class. I am looking to electrify the 29% WildHare Ultimate which flies great with the DA-50, both 3D and sequence, at 16-17lbs with a 22x8 prop. Ideally, I'd like to keep it as light as possible, but am worried about not enough weight up front for balance.

I'd like to hear of any suggestions, geared in-runner or outrunner.

Thanks,

Ken

[KatManDEW]

What would be a good electric equivalent of the DA-50?

I've heard of some using the Hacker A60-18L on 50cc planes. I'm planning to use one on a 50cc Yak.

There can be problams balancing "conversion" planes. Someone here on EZone converted Wile Hare plane.

[spyderron]

What would be a good electric equivalent of the DA-50?
I'm going with a Neu 1521/1.5y 6.7:1 GB on a Dietrich 50cc Extra. My target is 16 lbs on 12s.

I really love the Neu 1515 on my Ultra RC 202 Giles. 10.8 lbs on 10s w/ sick power :eek:

[staggerwing]

I'm going with a Neu 1521/1.5y 6.7:1 GB on a Dietrich 50cc Extra. My target is 16 lbs on 12s.

I really love the Neu 1515 on my Ultra RC 202 Giles. 10.8 lbs on 10s w/ sick power :eek:


Hmmm,
Love the sick power on the Giles, so I'm buying another Neu ??
Ah well, this site has all kinds of great input as well as interesting entertainment

[KatManDEW]

What prop will you run with the 1521? Any idea how that will compare with the Hacker A60-18L for thrust, and input watts?

[spyderron]

I run a 22 X 10 on the 1515 at nearly 2400W. For the 1521 I'll start with a 24 X 12 and go from there to get 3200W +. I understand that the 1521 will put out 30lbs of thrust on a 22 X 12.

[twest]

Hmmm,
Love the sick power on the Giles, so I'm buying another Neu ??
Ah well, this site has all kinds of great input as well as interesting entertainment

With the under-30 crowd, "sick" is a complement...he's saying that it has "incredible" power

[staggerwing]

With the under-30 crowd, "sick" is a complement...he's saying that it has "incredible" power


Thks--- kinda glad I'm over 30 , enjoying this great site & the kids therein.

[solomonx]

I understand that the 1521 will put out 30lbs of thrust on a 22 X 12.

If this is true, then the 1521/1.5y geared 6.7:1 should be very close to the DA-50. That is greater than 1.5:1 thrust to weight (17lb AUW). Weight wise, with 12s5000 lipos, I think the Neu setup might be just slightly heavier than the DA-50 w/ fuel. This is good as it would help with balance. I still have to figure out flight time as I would like to get at least a 10 minute flight doing a mix of 3D/IMAC.

What I like about the electric setup is that it is more easily managed by one person.

Thanks,

Ken