Orca Remains Hunt

[Real Ira]

Most of you guys are already aware of the story about my involvment in the search for Orca remains on Whidbey Island, WA.
Those who are not can get the history in the not very well named thread found here.... http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651062

We have made several digs and have yet to find diddly squat :confused:

There are a lot of details I have been unable to release due to concerns about disclosing the exact location of the site.

I have spoken with several who were present at the time of the burial and obtained a poor quality 8mm movie of the burial as well as an old, poor quality aerial survey image taken not long after.
All this evidence points to the fact that we are in the correct area but the subject was only about the size of a large human and the area is densely wooded making this a difficult challenge.

Here are some images taken on 05/18/07. It is clear when compairing these to the first images posted in the link above that we have moved a heck of a lot of soil.


Recap of the basics:

The subject is a baby Orca Whale about 6-10 ft long.

Burial took place in 1970

The soil is very poor sand and gravel, with well defined strata. So far all areas we have cut appear to be undisturbed. There is some concern that because this was a newborn animal it's bones may have decomposed due to this soil type being ideal for rapid decomposition. It is believed however that the teeth should survive regardless.
The fact we have not hit any undisturbed soils yet points to total decomposition as the cause for our lack of positive findings to date to be a premature conclusion.

Witnesses all agree to within 100 ft along the roadway as to the location. This agrees with the evidence in the first set of aerial images posted.

Not yet mentioned, the Health Dept. has about 30 test wells placed around a 12 acre area which includes the site to monitor ground water (please no public speculation as to why)
There is a well within the target area that has always shown the highest organic contaminants (nitrates) of any of these wells and no possible reason for this was clear until it was learned that the burial was close by.
The well was put in place 20 years ago and I even have a bit of concern it may have been drilled directly through the burial site.
If we turn over the whole area without results detailed testing can be done on archive water samples from this well that should show if this is the case but the detailed testing required is expensive and will only be done as a last resort.

Any other suggestions or leads you guys can come up with at this time would be well received. I'm getting sick of shoveling. :rolleyes:



Here is an RC/AP shot from yesterday. As you can see we have moved a bit of dirt.
Ira

[Myron]

Hey Ira,

Its been a while since I have been here catching up.. HAve you considered using a ground penetrating radar/sonar to look for anomolies(sp)???

Myron

[Real Ira]

Hey Myron,

That was tried before I even got involved.
Seems they had a heck of a time getting a decent image due to the brush, obstructions and uneven ground.
It's hard to understand if you have never been here but the underbrush is almost impossible to walk through, let alone drag a ground pen radar through.
If we clear the brush with the hoe for that we might as well trench it a bit to see if the dirt has been turned.
The first strata is only 6 in. deep so a quick check is easy with the back hoe.

Ira

[John O'Sullivan]

I'm not sure how often routine Government aerial photography is carried out in your target area. Typically in my region of Canada, it is on a 3 to 5 year basis at a scale of 1:10,000. This is about 6" to the mile and will be of sufficient clarity to identify individual trees. Even in a slower growing climate here in Eastern Canada, foliage coverage can obliterate earlier cleared areas quickly.

A couple of years ago, I was carrying out diamond drilling for mineral deposits on an area which had been extensively trenched and diamond drilled in 1970 to 1973. The old trench areas were overgrown to the extent that they could not be identified in recent airphotos. I managed to get airphotos from a coulpe of years after the tenching was carried out and had no problem locating the trenched areas. Perhaps a search of the airphoto archives for a couple of years after the burial took place could lead to success.
John

[Real Ira]

John,
We have access to an old aerial survey photo from about 1975 but the quality is quite poor and it is of limited help.
There does appear to be a disturbed area of soil visible in the image which confirms this as the site but it does little to narrow it down. The RC/AP images were far more effective for that.
The area were down to is about 100ft by 30 ft now but for what by now is most likely a wheel barrow full of bones that leaves a lot of dirt it could be hiding under.

The only thing I've come up with is hounds.
I do think I could get an orca bone on loan for a baseline odor and even though it's been 37 years I have heard some amazing stories about bloodhounds abilities.
May be worth a try.

Ira

[kd7ost]

It's sounding more and more bleak Ira. I would think a serious hunt would include the local parties spending the time to do a serious and thorough dig. It seems a bit odd that it's done in little stabs here and there for a short time as the equipment can be available. It seems to be evident that the work is being done more by volunteers and not with any budget. That’s OK mind you I just had the initial impression that this was big stuff to the local community.

Can you detail again what the purpose of finding the Orca whale burial is? I would appreciate it. The original thread is a long read and is quite cryptic at times. I recall a post in that where you explained the importance. Maybe you can just cut and paste it here.

Thanks Ira

Dan

[Real Ira]

Hey Dan,

This started as a well funded project that ran for two years before I even got involved.
Problem is that they had run out of leads and sort of given up. Now interest is re-kindled but it is a volunteer effort being done on an "as we can" basis.

We are hesitant to bring in too many more people because the site manager has been very patient and helpful but that would change quickly if throngs of people started showing up. Better to keep picking at it until we hit pay dirt.
After all, the remains aren't going anywhere. :D

As for doing this when the equipment is available, it really is the way to make best use of our time.
We get more done in 1/2 an hour with the hoe than we could in 2 days with shovels.

The primary science interest is in the teeth and the DNA samples they may provide.
There is great concern that the Puget Sound Orca's are suffering from genetic stagnation and this could be part of the reason for the decline in numbers.
A sample of DNA from 1970 could be useful in determining if this is the case.
There is also limited hope that toxin levels may be measurable too.
If they are they could be useful in determining if those levels are going down or up in the living animals present at this time.
Next to humans, orca's are the most polluted creatures on the planet and researchers need data to verify that measures taken to address this problem are showing signs of effectiveness.

We will keep chipping at this. I believe like so many things it will come down to persistence.

Ira

[kd7ost]

Thanks for refreshing my brain on the information Ira. I remember now what the interest was. Truly a science at work and a worthy project. The fact that you can use AP to help is a credit to you and for that matter the rest of us. Thanks.

Dan

[quailbird]

Here in Missouri many years ago there was a tribe of Big Osage inians with a tribe of 10,000 but the growth around the rivers is jungle like. Poison ivy, ticks, chigers, and bitting knats. It's almost impossible to any searching or flying. Theres no place to land. The ticks are soooo bad this year, when you go just off the raod for 5 minutes into the timber you'll come out with up to 25 ticks crawling on you! Yuk!

[Real Ira]

We do have deer ticks here but they are not that bad due to the wet winters.
Seems they actually rot while waiting for a victim :p

The only time I picked one up was while dressing out a deer that had an unusually bad case of them. Found the little :censored: on my hip while taking a shower. :eek:

To paraphrase Bogie, "Ticks, filthy little devils."

Looks like this week is out for more digging. Too much FAA rope a dope to do.
Next Monday looks good. Remember, any news breaks here first. :D

Ira

[quailbird]

Ira, it seems like I watched a video, maybe last fall where one of our members was flying off a beach right after a big storm and low and behold the waves uncovered the remains of a whale, with the ribs sticking out. I can't remember who it was but it was very interesting.

[Real Ira]

That is useful info Quail,

Several Orcas were killed during the capture attempt and the one I'm looking for was one of the babies.
The adults males were buried on beaches due to the fact they were to large to haul inland.
I've already APed one such beach site but didn't have much hope for this being helpful but you have motivated me to re-visit shooting the site after every storm. (this could be often around here)
The beach burial site is in an active slide area and erosion conditions made me think it was a write off, but ya never know....

Ira

[Real Ira]

Here is one of the beach sites.

As is plain to see from the demolished home erosion is an issue here.

This beach faces directly toward the Strait of Juan De Fuca and catches the full brunt of north Pacific winter storms.

The second pic shows where a boat launch (long sense eroded away) was that allowed a back hoe to drive onto the beach to bury the adult male Orca.

Please disregard my Wife and Daughter hamming it up for the camera. :D

I'll re-shoot this every few months.....just in case.

Ira

[quailbird]

I searched and searched for that video but I couldn't find it. Sorry!

[Rogerdoger]

Ira,

Name that shot "Pretty In Pink."

Roger

[Real Ira]

Thanks for looking Quail.

Rodger,

My girls are pretty in anything. :)

Funny but there is 1/2 a chance we are standing on top of the bones of a large male Orca in this pic.
This is one place where we could not just dig around. The property owners would freak out with all the erosion issues involved.

Ira

[bat]

Ira just contact James Bond I am sure he has a nifty bone detector in his watch ;)

[Real Ira]

This is one area where the ground pen radar may be effective.
If we can narrow it down a bit we may give that a try.

Ira

[Gray]

I don’t say much but I’m following this very closely!

Gray

[steelhead]

IRA-

How wooded was the area in 70's?

What is the age of the trees in the areas in question?

Dean

[Real Ira]

Dean,

The age of the larger trees is about 65 years and for this area they are rather stunted due to the poor soil.

I've been very busy dealing with the FAA debacle and did not get a chance to dig this week.
Maybe next week.

Ira

[kd7ost]

Hey Ira,

Anything new going on here yet?

Dan

[Real Ira]

Hey Dan,

I've been very busy for the past few weeks and have not been able to get out there and dig.
After going over all the pic's and the old super 8 film there is another spot I want to have a poke at.
In the film there are only about 4 sec. that are of the burial site and 2 1/2 min. of the carcass being dragged ashore.
During the 4 sec. at the site there are 2 large trees visible behind the hole and I have found 2 trees that have the same space between them and don't conflict with other facts.
The only problem is that there is an underground power line in this aera and I will have to dig with a shovel. (very carefully)
It may be a week or two before I get the time to go dig, but I'm not giving up on this until I see those darn bones.

Ira

[kd7ost]

Well if I was close enough I would grab a shovel and help you dig. I've dug myself into a hole more than a few times. :D

Dan

[Rogerdoger]

Dig It!!


:D :D :D

RC :rolleyes:

[Real Ira]

I can dig it man :cool: :D

Don't sweat it guys. That Orca is taking a dirt nap and won't run away.
I'm NOT giving up on this.

Ira

[bat]

Time to invest in a non-conductive shovel :eek:

[Flying-Monkey]

what are the FAA troubles you are having?

[bat]

Just a thought but when was the electric line layed. That could prove to be a problem. The original burial context may have been totally disrupted during the laying of the electric line.

[Real Ira]

Just a thought but when was the electric line layed. That could prove to be a problem. The original burial context may have been totally disrupted during the laying of the electric line.

That is a major concern.
The persons laying the line may well have dig up the remains and not noticed or cared what they were.
The other problem is that the strata will be disturbed.
This looks like a likly spot though so I'm going to have a go at it as soon as I get some info about the power line.

Ira

[Murocflyer]

So this is where this thread continues at. Been wondering what's the latest.

Frank

[bat]

we are waiting in anticipation of shocking new discoveries ;)

[Murocflyer]

Any new news?

Frank

[Real Ira]

I am overwhelmed by guilt about not getting back out there to turn some dirt but the FAA/political :censored: has devoured almost all my time. What little I have left is spent taking pretty pictures. On top of all that this week I had jury duty. :eek: (sucks but it's important)
In a few weeks I'll have a bit of time that I refuse to let get squandered away and I'll get out there with my buddy Steve the back hoe guy and have another go at it.
As promised, if we hit pay dirt it breaks here first.

Ira

[Murocflyer]

Thanks for the update Ira.

Frank

[Rogerdoger]

Ira,

My turn for Jury duty is mid July. :censored:

Can they really want me? :eek:

RC

[Tom Harper]

Ira,

Tell 'em you spend moonlit nights sifting sand for the lost bones of Free Willie's mother. They'll let you go!

Tom

[Real Ira]

I just lucked out.
They wanted 12 and an alternate from a pool of 50 and I was number 26.
They excused a randomly scattered 5 or so and then started seating people starting from #1 and working there way up.
It was a very nice day and by the time they got to 5 the rest of us were grins from ear to ear. :D

Jury duty is as much a privilege as it is a pain in the rump.

Ira

[Flying-Monkey]

I had the fortune of serving on a jury. Well, almost. I was an alternate. I got to sit the entire week, in a little room with the alternate, every time the jury deliberated. It was such an open and shut case, yet the defense attourney was slick. The case was drawn out over a week. each day we might get two hours of court time in. The court would start late, and the judge would leave early. Then the deliberations took a while. We ended up losing a jurur, so then I was alone in the alternate room. Then we lost the other jurur. So I got to see how it was being handled. We had one guy who just seemed to like to argue. And another whose decision seemed to be influenced by race.

In the end, the crook got off. The prosecution was terrible, didn't seem to care. The defence was held up by lying neighbors (one actually said he saw the cop "plant" the drugs on the suspect, after carrying them through the air, like one would carry a soiled diaper). Of course, the defense challenged everything, and the prosecuting attorney just seemed to want to get it over with and go home. I was so dissapointed to see how the legal system actually worked. I then realized why there was so much crime.

[Real Ira]

I talked to my buddy Steve who is connected with the site today.
Some "issues" that were impeding another dig have been cleared up and it looks like I may turn some more dirt next week!

Ira

[mcledan]

Here are a few (obtuse, outside the box) thoughts that might be useful.

1. Presumably if one buries an Orca, the trees are removed from the immediate area.

2. If a new tree seed falls on this area it produces a tree, probably an evergreen or whatever you have there.

3. Using a cedar as an example, even if it was seeded almost immediately, it would be 37 years old or less by now. The whole patch would likely have trees about that age and size too.

4. The forestry/university folks should be able to help determine the size and age of such a tree, for a bench mark for you.

5. If a tree(s) was/were growing on the burial spot, in a few years, their root system would have invaded the nitrogen source provided by the whale flesh. I think this would affect the trees growth a bit (maybe a lot). When I lived out that way we used to <plant> dead spawned salmon under our fruit trees for example.

6. I know forestry folks have drills to take out a sample thru the trunk and can tell a lot about the growth of a tree. It would make a nice bit of work for a summer student or two.

7. If the Orca flesh really has high levels of heavy metals, they may even show up in analysis on those tree core samples, especially in certain yearly growth rings.

8. I dont know if Orca DNA would be absorbed as such, but who knows. Maybe they (Fisheries and Oceans folks) could test for it too. Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) might work with the right Orca specific primers (it can be extremely sensitive, as in finding a needle in a haystack is quite possible). (Yes I have done a lot of DNA work once upon a time ;^)

Good luck with CSI: Orca

Dan
P.S. And I do AP too ;^)

[HELModels]

That makes too much sense.

[Rogerdoger]

Ira,

I'm glad things are progressing.

RC

[Real Ira]

Hey Roger,

I wish they were but I've just been too busy to get out there.
On Friday I will be speaking with the property manager about planning the next dig.
When dirt moves I'll post here.

Ira

[Tom Harper]

Ira,

Considering the nature of the project, it's moving along fine. This stuff takes many years. Hang in there!

My wife and I want to do a road trip to the the North West. Maybe you'll have bones by the time we get there. Or, maybe we'll bring shovels.

Tom

[Rogerdoger]

What an interesting idea.

Once you get things going, some of the group from RSG could go there and dig or support the dig. :D Then there is the coffee, sweetrolls, sandwiches, etc! All of that might need a place for camping, but what a opportunity.

There would be some flying too, I'm sure. :rolleyes:

Roger :rolleyes:

Keep Looking UP!

[jet-boat]

Keep up the hard work, hopefully your success can show that things are getting better in the Puget Sound. Even better if your research can make positive changes. My 15+ years salmon fishing from Point no Point to as far up the coastal rivers you can get a 19ft boat that only needs 3" of water to run has opened my eyes to the huge decline of a food source for the wildlife. I also see more and more oil slicks floating around the P.S. We used to follow the birds, the birds follow the herring which the salmon have all balled up at the surface. Now days if we see a bait ball ( herring trying to avoid predators) we thank the fishing gods and troll around it catching dinner!
Maybe the fish gods will help you out. Good things happen to good people!

Good Luck!

[Rogerdoger]

A "Bump" in the night! :D

Roger

[Real Ira]

Hey Guys thanks for the bump!

I've been a bad and negligent thread starter.

Spoke with the property manager a couple days ago and got the green light for more digging. This will have to be done by hand tools due to a buried power line nearby.
The only hold up has been my time being devoured by dealing with the FAA mess but I am starting to REALLY need a break from that.
Next week I dig!
(I'll post all the dirt here) :D

Ira

[bat]

Yes!
excavation by hand, thats how the real men do it :)

[Flying-Monkey]

done digging yet?

[Rogerdoger]

Ira,

just post a new picture shot from the road or something. MAybe that will crank up the project.

Roger

[patrickegan]

Ira’s busy trudging through the arduous and tedious task of airspace integration.

[Rogerdoger]

What does that mean?

Roger

[patrickegan]

We’re busy trying to work for light regulation… RCAPA stuff :)

[Real Ira]

Thanks for covering my back Patrick. You KNOW I have yours.

Guy's,
I am afraid I just haven't been able to check in here as often as I should.
The Orca situation has taken a turn for the worse.
The site is soon going to be used for purposes that will make further searching impossible.
I will get one last crack at a dig on the week ending Sept. 27. After that time I should be free to post more details about the site and the reasons for my being so cagey about it will become clear.
If weather permits i will do an AP flight for some pre dig recon images to help with planning and post them here for all to review.
Thanks to all for the continued interest.

Ira

[Tom Harper]

Good to see activity!

Looking forward to your post.

Tom

[Cats Eyes]

Sept 27 has come and gone. Any news? Thx. :)

-- Kevin

[Real Ira]

Hi Kevin,

How are things?

Had a bit of a rough go getting out there for another set of pic's but finally did a few days ago. (attached)
I may be able to dig on Oct 7-8th if nothing comes up.
Should be able to post all the recent pic's in the morning.

Ira

[Rogerdoger]

Ira,

Nice pictures. I have a much better feel for what the area looks like now.

Roger

[800mZero]

any updates?

[Murocflyer]

Anyone? What do we know now?

Thanks,

Frank