Fox Buzzard 144 R/C Sailplane, Kit No. F-6

[old_dude]

Anyone have any info on the Fox Buzzard 144 R/C Sailplane, Kit No. F-6 ?? :)
There's one listed on eBay but no PICS or specs :confused:
The description says "Wing tip rudders - a new concept of direction control-turn flat, no skid, no nosing down" Hugh ???

Thanks

Old_dude

[bobthenuke]

Anyone have any info on the Fox Buzzard 144 R/C Sailplane, Kit No. F-6 ?? :)
There's one listed on eBay but no PICS or specs :confused:
The description says "Wing tip rudders - a new concept of direction control-turn flat, no skid, no nosing down" Hugh ???

Thanks

Old_dude

I actually have that sale bookmarked while I find some pics and info. I remember that it was a Berkely kit resold by Fox, so that probably says something about it. :rolleyes: I have some old MANs that almost certainly have ads for it; just a matter of digging through them. I'll let you know what I find out because I seriously doubt I'll go for the auction.

bob

[old_dude]

Thanks for the response Bob :) Let me know if you find some data.

I'm guessing that it has a flat bottom airfoil and if so then I'll pass on it also.

Old_dude

[Mark Miller]

My father built one when I was a kid. I still have a set of plans. Old school stick built box fuselage. Old style undercamber airfoil. Huge chord with little spar. It did have little tabs sticking up from the wing tips that acted as "rudders" to get the thing to turn. Small rudder with huge span issue. It is a cool old school design but not sure if it is practical in this day and age.

Mark Miller

[old_dude]

Thanks Mark, I appreciate the info. Sounds like an Arizona style boomer thermal would turn it into a bag of broken sticks :eek:

old_dude

[Mark Miller]

Dude,

I fear you may be right. I'd hate to land it on that desert hard pack too.

Mark

[bobthenuke]

Well, I checked through what I could find of my old MANs (Ca. 1962) and although there were plenty of Fox ads, none showed the Buzzard.

From what I recall, Mark's description of his fathers (Jeez I'm feeling old now) model is quite accurate. FWIW, it was a Berkely kit and by todays standards a relatively poor kit that with a ton of work could be built into something nice - but dated. And yes, one of our "trash haulers" would probably rip it to shreds.

...bob

[John Cole]

I sold one of these kits about ten years ago. Tons of wood, mostly sticks if I remember correctly. The best thing I remember about the kit was the box art; a picture of this woman holding the completed glider, wearing what looks like a Bettie Page-style bullet bra! Yow.

John

[bobthenuke]

I sold one of these kits about ten years ago. Tons of wood, mostly sticks if I remember correctly. The best thing I remember about the kit was the box art; a picture of this woman holding the completed glider, wearing what looks like a Bettie Page-style bullet bra! Yow.

John

That's what I remember too, John...the 50's style torpedo bra and girdle-looking bottom. Hubba Hubba! ;)

[Phoebusflyer]

You guys are TOO much!!

[Mark Miller]

The kit was a Fox after all.

Mark

[mikelshoen]

Have the old Berkeley-Fox kit for the Buzzard 144" sailplane from the late '60s. Need plans. Any ideas? Mike

[Mark Miller]

I got my plans from John Pond back about 15 years ago. John has passed and his plans are now part of the AMA plan collection. Check with the AMA plan service. They should be able to provide them.

Mark

[mikelshoen]

Muchas gratsias.

[KickAce]

Have the old Berkeley-Fox kit for the Buzzard 144" sailplane from the late '60s. Need plans. Any ideas? Mike
Hi Mike,

I have one of those kits still in the box... I'm not sure when I'll be gettting to building it as I have a few other projects lined up... Would you be interested in posting a build log here as you move along... The kits will still show up for sale from time-to-time and would be a great resource if you did... No pressure mind you... lol... ;)

I bid you good building on your project...!!! :D

[mikelshoen]

I do have one plan sheet, for the wing. Can you have a blueprint place copy your plan sheet for the fuse and I will reimburse? The wing plans show no dihedral and no wing tip washout and the build instructions state: "This plane ordinarily glides at very close to stalling speed and a rudder movement only causes the inboard panel to drop off." Their solution is the wing tip rudders which yaw the thing into a turn. The plan later states: "In a glider of this type I feel ailerons are less important than on a conventional model..." My guess is that the thing was designed by Duke Fox and he didn't know enough to put in dihedral and washout. I figure I will give it two inches dihedral on each side and 1/8 washout on the outboard wing tips, plus ailerons? What do you guys think?

[KickAce]

I do have one plan sheet, for the wing. Can you have a blueprint place copy your plan sheet for the fuse and I will reimburse? The wing plans show no dihedral and no wing tip washout and the build instructions state: "This plane ordinarily glides at very close to stalling speed and a rudder movement only causes the inboard panel to drop off." Their solution is the wing tip rudders which yaw the thing into a turn. The plan later states: "In a glider of this type I feel ailerons are less important than on a conventional model..." My guess is that the thing was designed by Duke Fox and he didn't know enough to put in dihedral and washout. I figure I will give it two inches dihedral on each side and 1/8 washout on the outboard wing tips, plus ailerons? What do you guys think?
Hi Mike,

There are three blueprints in total... Two of the three have the wing layout on them, the other the fuselage... Let me know which ones that you would like copied and I'll PM you back with the quote... I wonder if Kinkos or some place like that could do this...?

The insert shows the wing actually has a polyhedral form to them...

[KickAce]

I do have one plan sheet, for the wing. Can you have a blueprint place copy your plan sheet for the fuse and I will reimburse?
Hi Mike,

Kinkos says that they can do the copy of the blueprints, they quoted me 75 cents per square foot... About $4.75 per plan or there abouts...

You say that you have one set of plans for the wings... The wings are spread over two plan sets as well as the fuselage, from my prior post, which plan sets would you like to have duplicated...? Plan 1, 2, 3 or any combination that you would like... Of course shipping charges as well... As soon as I know which one(s) you need, I'll get them to Kinkos and have the copies made, PM me with your shipping address and will let you know as soon as they are shipped out to you...

[mikelshoen]

Thanks so much. I am missing plan #1 which shows the front fuselage and stabilizer and also missing the insert which shows polyhedral. Tell me how much your copy and postage costs are and I will send a check.

Now that I know the wing has polyhedral, I will probably incorporate the wing tip rudders, hooked up with the ailerons?

[KickAce]

Thanks so much. I am missing plan #1 which shows the front fuselage and stabilizer and also missing the insert which shows polyhedral. Tell me how much your copy and postage costs are and I will send a check.

Now that I know the wing has polyhedral, I will probably incorporate the wing tip rudders, hooked up with the ailerons?
Hi Mike,

I've got the plans and will stop by Kinkos tomorrow, I'll let you know what the actual costs are when I have it all ready to ship... USPS sound good to you...?

Yes, ailerons... On the wing tips...!!! :confused: The wing tip rudders are optional, when I did some research on this bird, someone mentioned that shortly after the maiden flight (way, way back when) that they promptly removed them... :eek: Just thought that I'd mention that... Now if my hard drive didn't crash, I'd a been able to supply the link, perhaps you already came across that during your searches...

[mikelshoen]

KickAce: USPS is fine. Logically, there should be no need for wingtip rudders, because the plane is a glider like any other. What was the source of your info that they removed the wingtip rudders? Anyone out there flown one of these? Wingtip rudders sound pretty crazy and the only place I can think of them is on flying wings. Mike

[KickAce]

Logically, there should be no need for wingtip rudders, because the plane is a glider like any other. What was the source of your info that they removed the wingtip rudders? Mike
Hi Mike,

Hmmm, I remember doing ALLOT of searching on this bird, using just about every search engin that I could think of, clicking on hundreds of false links when I had come across a post on some RC clubs web site out east some where, it was a very old post and tried contacting anyone over there and never heard back from anyone... If I remember right, it was the son (an adult) talking about his dad having one and had removed the wing tip rudders shortly after it's maiden flight... Can't remember much more than that as that was the point that stood out in my head... Like I said, it was an obscure post at some clubs web site... If I ever get any data off that bad hard drive I'll post the link as I know that I bookmarked it, however I think the drive is pretty dead...

Oh, here is another thread on this site dealing with the Buzzard...
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923653

[KickAce]

Hey mike,

The plans are ready for shipping... I sent you a PM asking for your address to ship it to... $15.00 will cover it + a build log... :p lol... Reply back before the end of my work day and I'll get it in the mail today...

More on that site where they said that they removed the wing tip rudders... Like I said that it was a long time searching when I came across it, but it was a small RC clubs web site, it was found in their (very old) archives on past monthly club news letters... I had at the time spent hours searching the net, turning over every stone, every link, but I did come across it... If anyone out there remembers their Buzzard, has pictures, build tips from experience, knows of the clubs web site that I speak of, or just some stories to tell I'd be happy to hear of them... :D

[KickAce]

Kinko's said that they can laminate blueprints... I estimated the cost to about $30.00 for a blueprint... I tell ya, no matter what I do, I always seem to get CA through the plastic or waxed overlay when building making the plans rather tattered... Just had a thought that one could sandwhich the plans between two sheets of plastic and not destroy the plans getting it off the cork board... I know, some work with a plate of glass laid over the plans, I kinda like stickin' in the pins as I move along... :p

Mike, did I mention that I included all three plans and the insert... If the plans you have in the same condition as mine, they are just falling appart at all the fold lines... I'm only charging you for one of the plans, I just threw in the other cuz I'm a nice guy... Anyway, PM me back with your address, I'll reply back with my address and trust ya on the check...

[mikelshoen]

KickAce:

My address is: Mike Shoen, 6719 E. Malcomb Dr., Paradise Valley, AZ 85253. Please send me your address and I will mail the $30 or whatever the total is with postage. Thanks again. All three sheets are fine and I do need the smaller sheet with typed instructions.

I will use wax paper on the plans and will have to iron my two old sheets to get them to straighten out as they have been folded for years. I suspect the wing tip rudders should be unnecessary. My guess was that tip stalls caused the addition of the wingtip rudders and that tip washout will solve this? Airelons are about 1/3 the size of what they would be on a modern glider. The airfoil is highly undercambered and I will probably have to use a lot of glue on the undercamber to adhere the wing covering. There is a dry lake just west of Blythe, CA where this thing can fly -- Ford dry lake.

[mikelshoen]

KickAce:

I do not need a laminated blueprint. It would make the plans more cumbersome. I will use wax paper, so just send the plain copied plans which will make it less expensive for me and less running around for you. Are you a glider guy? Best, Mike

[KickAce]

KickAce:

I do not need a laminated blueprint. It would make the plans more cumbersome. I will use wax paper, so just send the plain copied plans which will make it less expensive for me and less running around for you. Are you a glider guy? Best, Mike
Hi Mike,

Are you kidding, no lamination were done on any plans, it is something that I am thinking about trying... Next build will have it's plans laminated on the next build and see how it works out... You still have not replied to my PM with the shipping address for me to ship to... It's all ready to go, just need that address...

Yep, glider-guy for sure...!!! :D

[mikelshoen]

Shipping address: Mike Shoen, 6719 E. Malcomb Dr., Paradise Valley, Arizona 85253, 480-703-7867 mikelshoen@yahoo.com

[KickAce]

Hi Mike,

It's in the mail and should arrive in a few days... :)