Saving a Ziroli P-38

[FASTALJR]

Well the title says it all. I bought a Ziroli P-38, built, brand new never flown, with 2 G-62`s, all the electonics, and retracts, for $400.00 bucks.......The previous owner built all ziroli kits, and can longer build........ The big kicker, the plane was in a house fire about a month ago, the plane from what we can tell sustained alot of covering damage, Looks to be no major damage to the airframe except some breaks from moving it around, and about 75% of the metal parts have oxidized due to the fire, and all the plastic parts have melted, but overall the plane is till in one piece!

Me and Sr will be going over it, this weekend totally to see what we can save and what will have to be replaced, this hopefully will be a future electric warbird. I will have a few pictures coming soon, I figured I`d start a thread on it now, which will turn into a long term thread hopefully!

Anyone who has build tips, tricks, input on the plane itself, would be appreciated.

P.S. The Engines will be for sale after they are removed and gone thru if anyone is interested.

[stangrob]

FASTAL,

Sounds like an interesting project. What do you figure the current AUW is for the plane is as it stands? Ziroli quotes around 40lbs on his website for that plane with gas engines. Figure about 120 watts per pound and you're talking around 5KW. That's some serious power - any idea of what kind of drivetrain you want to go with?

Rob

[FASTALJR]

not a clue, gotta salvage the airframe first. I figure its between 35-40 pounds, right now. However I figure the engines, and fuel system add some of the major weight, the g-62`s weigh about 6 pounds a piece, I`m gonna take the weight once we get all the electronics, and engines out! With the new systems from Hacker and the new controls from Castle we may be in buisness. But like I said we have about 2-3 days of stripping the covering off to see what damage other than the oxidation has occured. Right now the Retracts at least the front is locked up, the rear ones shook loose on the ride home. All the plastic parts were melted in the fire. Right now I`m guessing that me and sr have at least 4-5 months of sanding and recovering, before we can even think about the actual conversion, but I`m figuring its gonna take some serious power systems!!!!! Here is the first pic was of the travels to my home, my truck seems to have gotten better gas milage with the new set of airfoils!

Main thing now is to assess what needs to be repaired and fixed. Also have to find a home for it, it takes up my entire trailer...... Literally the nose is at the rear doors, and the tail is against my shelf in the front of the trailer!

I`m hoping for good things!!!! :) :)

[GWRIGHT]

Two A60L's would do fine. they are rated for 60 amps peak on 10S, which is in the 2300~2500 watt range which would give you close to 5Kw total, and drivetrains that would last more than a lifetime. These motors are extremely under-rated, so at their rated power levels they basically last forever. I'm using one on 12S at a little over 4Kilowatts which 3D's a 16 lb plane, hovering at 35% throttle, indicating it would be a LOT more than you need in the '38
I also know of someone running one on 12S at 5Kilowatts (double the manuf. rated power level), and at that point it gets quite warm, but OK. I think propped for 2500~3000 watts per side on 12S and you'd have a jewel of a setup. My 4KW setup is on a plane intended for a DA50 gas engine, and it is quite a bit more performance than the DA50, which is about like a G62 in output. With 12S 5000's, it's 2 lbs for motor and 3 lbs, 2 oz for batteries, so just over 5 lbs. You'd end up lighter than the G62 setups by almost a pound per side, (a LOT more if you factor in fuel weight for the gassers)and have bulletproof systems that you could prop up if you wanted to really show off electric, (24X12 on 12S, my setup is close to 2.5 to 1 thrust to weight on 16 lbs of plane, 39 lbs calculated, 36 measured, 6000 rpms) With the 38, you could prop differently, maybe like the 20X15 "E" prop, and gain quite a lot of speed, sacrificing the thrust you don't need anyway, and dropping the current to get long flights.

[FASTALJR]

Thats actually what I figured since this plane actually calls for G-45`s. I was figuring 5330-5345 range for motors, but I appreciate the info now. I`ll be flying a 50 cc size plane on 12s and a 5345 Motor, havent got the packs yet to start playing with the plane however!

I decided tonight I`m gonna go tear into heavy, it needs alot of finishing work besides the repairs, (builder was not into detail as much as I am) so alot of the items that should look smooth and clean are not, so thats gonna be the bulk of the work, refinishing what wasnt finished in the first plance.

I`m now also trying to locate a new storage facility for now as the thing is taking up my whole trailer adn I`m gonna be needin it sooner than later lol!!!

[mpope1]

Have a 18 lbs. p-38, 90" wing span running hacker a50-16s on 5s per motor. 17x10 e props producing about 900 watts. About 100 watts per lbs. Plane flies very scale. If you run a60-18l, I would run on 12s per motor.

[FASTALJR]

Well I got the engines pulled out, they seem to be ok, just need to be cleaned. The airframe appears to be in good order, just rough, needs alot of finishing work. the tails have been burned somewhat and are twisted, and will need to be rebuilt. The retracts are in need of care, the front is rusted completely, the right rear is working, the left rear is working to a degree. The 3 servo`s I pulled out so far are toast, the wires are all melted. I w ill post some pics tonight or tommorow of the work so far!

[stamper]

Please PM me a price on the 62's. Myself and a friend may be interested if they work. Thanks.


Scott

[RiBell]

I'm very intreasted in how this project turns out. As I have drooled over the Ziroli P-38's for a very long time.
Rick

[John Z]

It looks rough now, but if you start working on it and put in a few hours everyday, it won't be long before she starts shaping up . I have restored a couple planes that were stored away and simply forgot after being built. The airframes were completed, but never covered. After cleaning and some sandpaper and a little elbow grease, they began to look pretty good.
The first one is an Aerodrome Models "Fly Baby" that was kitted by Dick Watz out of Saginaw, Mi. and no longer in production. It was very dirty and in need of some sanding as well, it was however well built.
The other is a Goldberg Tiger 2 that was never completed.
I also have a 2 Gee Bee models Tiger Moth pretty much completed and one was very dirty and dusty as it was left in a garage.
It took some time and patience but thay all came out great. Oh yeah, I crashed one Tiggie due to pilot error when I let it tip stall at 10' or so. Gotta remember to keep the airspeed up on bipes.
Good luck with your project and keep us informed. Don't get discouraged.
cheers JohnZ

[8kasl]

Fastal,Just wondering what the airframe wt. is without the engines?Acording to Ziroli site,the finished wt.is between 38&40# which @ 40#=56oz.sq.ft.Pretty heavy for only 1650 sq. in.May be a real handfull to fly?

[FASTALJR]

that weight may be with the all of the gas equipment as well? Not sure, but I have already thought of ways to lighten the airframe. I have not had a chance to work on it lately. Will keep everyone informed of the progress as its made.

[RiBell]

Hey I was just going through my subscribed threads looking for something and spotted this thread.
Figured a bump was in order to ask how it's going.
Rick

[FASTALJR]

Shes in storage right now, been working on other projects. Its gonna turn into a long long term.

[Ercoupe Ed]

Shes in storage right now, been working on other projects. Its gonna turn into a long long term.

You can do it!
Just think about "Glacier Girl" and being dug out of the ice 164 feet down, all smashed and banged up, and today she flies with pride and dignity!
You ought to name it "Phoenix Gal"

Good luck!
Ed

[jeepers1940]

I got to see the late Lefty Gardner's P-38 "White Lightning" fly a few years back in an airshow. In this day and time, a P-38 in flight is an amazing sight and sound; I feel privileged to have had that experience.
Keep us posted on your restoration, a most worthy project.
Bill

[Rich Uravitch]

Here's a benchmark that may help. Video here:
http://www.rcuvideos.com/publish/item/W19JGNB0XMNMC4CN
Plenty of power, now trying different prop sizes.
AEROSCALE

[FASTALJR]

Well unfortunately all, the p-38 is dead. My Gram who is completely crazy (going senial) Hired some contractors to clean out my grandfathers old shed, and were told not to touch any airplanes. Well, I found this plane in over 6 pieces, completely destroyed. I lost it. :( I was told that he is going to make good. who knows! I`m mad! I need a drink!

Apparently everythin is junk to these morons!

[RiBell]

FASTALJR:
Sorry to hear that the P-38 was destroyed.
Rick