The new Queen of the aerial and video photography platform. 100” EPP Flying Wing.

[Itzik Ronen]

It starts with the seeking for the ultimate AP platform, and thanks to the RCG guys I started this project.
These are the first trades:

1. I was looking for a EPP model with large wing area. The conclusion was to use Flying wing:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=608775

2. Few days later I was looking for large flying wing:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=610479#post6558676

3. Then it starts – the Queen of the wings 100” EPP Flying Wing, 1 square meter (10.76 square feet).

[Itzik Ronen]

If you like to support this project or sending me equipment to test, you are more then welcome!
Please visit my Blog (http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=51644)

[Itzik Ronen]

I finish assembling the gimbal and attached the camera, works perfect.

[chargenut]

Very nice build so far... looking good... will be interested to see how it all fits together in the future... Subscribed!!!

Any idea of total cost of the project?

Well done,

Terry.

[MisterNiceGuy]

looks fantastic....count me in for the ride!
MNG

[mieczotronix]

Amazing.
BTW How are you going to launch it? I guess the plane + equipment will weight about 3 kgs... so that will be quite a challenge

[ap4me]

Amazing.
BTW How are you going to launch it?

If you hand launch it, you will have to make sure you let go of it. Otherwise, it's just a paraglider;)

Have all of you watched the video of the hand catch one of the links provided. It looks FAST.

[quailbird]

Itzik, that is a great video. It would fit wonderfully in the new Science & Archeology AP site being built, so hang on to it so you can post it there. I loved the history lesson.
After loking at your blog and all the pictures, how will you land to protect your camera dome? Will you put wheels on it?

[Itzik Ronen]

Amazing.
BTW How are you going to launch it? I guess the plane + equipment will weight about 3 kgs... so that will be quite a challenge
Thanks, yes you are close total flight weight is designed to be 3.5-4kg. The tolerance will depend on the battery I'll use at the end. It is hard for me to estimate the efficiency of the system.

[Itzik Ronen]

Itzik, that is a great video. It would fit wonderfully in the new Science & Archeology AP site being built, so hang on to it so you can post it there. I loved the history lesson.
After loking at your blog and all the pictures, how will you land to protect your camera dome? Will you put wheels on it?
Thanks, I like this video of Antipatris - youtube.com/watch?v=pn62WlwSHfU - the music too. :rolleyes:

I'm planning to lend it on 4mm steel wires skis. However, although the acrylic dome maintains optical quality it is very inexpensive. I didn’t connect it to the camera holder so it will be the "fuse" if something will happen. Do you believe it will work?

[Ming]

Itzik

Don't worry about the weight, Queen Bee could be a cargo.
The wingloading is still light even 4kg cause by the huge wing area.
Remember to build your wing join hard enough, and also landing gear.
Let me know if you need any spare parts on Queen Bee.

Ming

[Talontsi96]

Very Cool Project..... I definitelly will be following it...

[Itzik Ronen]

Itzik

Don't worry about the weight, Queen Bee could be a cargo.
The wingloading is still light even 4kg cause by the huge wing area.
Remember to build your wing join hard enough, and also landing gear.
Let me know if you need any spare parts on Queen Bee.

Ming
Hi Ming,
I can see that from the time I’ve bought the Queen Bee you’ve had time for a new born project… congratulation.
Thanks, I’ll contact you if I need help with parts.
I’m going to use skis; do you see a problem with that?
I’ve seen somewhere that the CG is not 13.5” from the front, is this right?
Thanks
Itzik

[randall1959]

The easiest way to figure cg is to measure the chord of the widest part, then the smallest. Add those two figures and divide by 2. That's the average chord. Find the spot on the wing where you get that measurement. Then I normally start at 10 % back on a flying wing and 25% back on a plane with tail feathers.

[quailbird]

Yes! I believe it will fly great. My son-in-law had a 78" wing and it flew great. Glided so smooth and for long periods of time. Be sure to keep us posted.

[philgib]

I am doing lots of AP from kites and blimp. I would like to try the plane / glider solution and I am very much interested by this project.

Is the Queen bee recommandable for absolute beginners to learn flying ? It says it is almost undestructible :-)

[Ming]

What? skis on snow you mean? interesting...
The landing gear is easy as attached image file.
About the CG...someone even make the CG little bit forward.
For you electric version, 13 is fine I can say.

Queen Bee is very easy to fly but better to fly Bee first.

[quailbird]

Philgib, do you not know how to fly? If so, get you a SS and if you have access to simulator like a G3, put it on SS and practice. Take off and land until you can do it at least 10 times, then you will be able to go right out to the field and fly your SS. This will get you the feel of flying plus most Simulators have flying wings. Then, practice with your wing with a dummy camera on at first till you, for sure have it down. You'll be fine. It's better to crash a simulator than your plane. BTW! Not all computers can play the G3 mine wouldn't so I had to load it on my son-in-law's computer and go over there every day.

[CrashingDutchman]

This may be of help:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216291
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145280

[Itzik Ronen]

What? skis on snow you mean? interesting...
The landing gear is easy as attached image file.
About the CG...someone even make the CG little bit forward.
For you electric version, 13 is fine I can say.

Queen Bee is very easy to fly but better to fly Bee first.
Yes skis but not for snow. With landing gear you need a decent area or runway to land and I like to be able to lend in very different landscapes. Not like small wheels, I believe that skis will be the best for lending on much wider range of terrains. For the similar reason I looked for EPP wing, it is not indestructible material but much more forgiven.
Do you agree with this assumption? do you guys have experience with skis?

[Itzik Ronen]

Cut the opening for the dome

[Myron]

Hey Itzik,

Looking good man! About 2 years ago I did a very similar project using the solid blue foam. Gene and I used a hotwire and cut the cores and I just used clear tape to cover it.. It had a very simple tilt pan in the belly with a security cam dome and a large skit to protect it.. We flew it with a jeti 30-3 and a 4400 lipo for about 9 miles on a cross country flight. IT flew great and we got alot of use out of it for a long time... please keep us posted on your progress!

Myron

[Gary Mortimer]

Looking very good Itzik,

My standard Xit flys on the slope down here but as we are around 6000' in places not quite as well as at sea level.

I am always on the lookout for bigger versions to go chase vultures with.

Watching with great interest.

G

[vpatron]

Itzik, where did you get the clear plastic dome? I've been looking for something like this.

I get some swaying from my camera because of the wind and something like would be great.

-Vince

[Itzik Ronen]

Looking very good Itzik,

G
Wow G, 6000’! Watch out! I’ll visit you one day, can you post some pictures?

[Itzik Ronen]

Itzik, where did you get the clear plastic dome? I've been looking for something like this.

I get some swaying from my camera because of the wind and something like would be great.

-Vince
Hi Vince,
A guy next door develops a nice process price/quality and manufactures these units. If you have interest I can check it for you.
Itzik

[vpatron]

Hi Itzik,

I found a supplier. (See http://www.bubbleskylight.net/domes.htm)

Thanks and good luck with your airplane! You are one talented fellow. That's excellent work! Excellent 3D CAD design, too.

-Vince

Hi Vince,
A guy next door develops a nice process price/quality and manufactures these units. If you have interest I can check it for you.
Itzik

[Gwelan]

I live in a remote location and those surveilance camera dome are dificult to buy anywere but on the Internet. I once tried to steal one but a close-up picture of my face was everywhere on the lightpoles the next morning. :D

[Myron]

Hey Guys,

You can ge the domes at www.supercircuits.com.

Myron

[Itzik Ronen]

Hi Itzik,
Thanks and good luck with your airplane! You are one talented fellow. That's excellent work! Excellent 3D CAD design, too.
-Vince
Hi Vince,
Thanks for the compliments.
I’m just coming back from Vegas; I could bring you a dome, next time.
Next month I’m in Berlin, any ideas?
Itzik
:o

[Itzik Ronen]

The idea is that the dome will be connecting only to the plane body without any connection to the camera or camera holder. The dome shape is a very strong shape by nature (ask the chicken next to you) and in case of bad landing it will protect the camera. In this case, I would like the impact to spread from the dome to as large area as possible.

[vpatron]

Hi Itzik,

I'm mostly in San Diego now with an occasional trip to Vegas. I'm not sure the exact size yet that I'll need.

Right now I designed my AP plane (designed and built from scratch) with the camera just hanging. The dome with be a retrofit on a new fuselage design later on. I just need the new design flying real soon for some new missions I have planned.

How heavy is your plastic dome? I'm wondering how much weight I should account for on my design.

So far looking good! But you are very brave for using what looks like white foam (EPS). One crash and ouch!!!

Have you considered using a flying wing using EPP foam? I have a design for one using an airfoil I got from a fellow in Germany who designs this stuff, with the planform copied from the Unicorn Wing, but I haven't gotten around to cutting those wings yet. My friends who have CNC hotwire cutters don't seem to be interested in cutting it for me so I'll have to cut it by hand.

If you come over here next time, you can help me and you can keep one (or a few). I think I can still get free EPP foam.

-Vince


Hi Vince,
Thanks for the compliments.
I’m just coming back from Vegas; I could bring you a dome, next time.
Next month I’m in Berlin, any ideas?
Itzik
:o

[Itzik Ronen]

Hi Vince,
Yes you are correct; I have to be stupid (very brave) to use white foam :eek: The first thread mentioned at the beginning says that I’m looking for EPP plane! And this is an EPP wing.
Are you connecting to P-Patron?
“….the camera just hanging..” are you the guy that using the camera pendulum concept? I like your work very much and I’ll be very pleased to mutually work on the right airfoil new project.
The dome is a half ball, 160mm in diameter and weight 98gr.
Itzik

[Itzik Ronen]

Connecting the stubs for the gimbal

[ppatron]

Are you connecting to P-Patron?
“….the camera just hanging..” are you the guy that using the camera pendulum concept? I like your work very much and I’ll be very pleased to mutually work on the right airfoil new project.
The dome is a half ball, 160mm in diameter and weight 98gr.

Hi Itzik,

vpatron is my brother in San Diego. We both do AP. I am in the San Francisco area.

Paul

[vpatron]

Hi Itzik, yes, Paul's my brother (ppatron). We both founded our little company www.nortap.com

Oh, I guess I should read more carefully. The pictures looked like EPS to me; yes EPP is great!

Yes, we hang the camera on a "pendulum" mount. But there are more factors that need to be considered because this type of mount will worsen the shake if its not used correctly. But used correctly, the shots are smoother and you have fewer shots that are crooked.

As for the airfoil, it's really not that critical; we do all our shots in 10 minutes so we're not trying to stay in the air for 1 hour. I just thought that if you could not find a really big wing, I have a homebuilt design that should work well.

Thanks for the compliments but I'm almost embarrassed to show my designs in this forum. You guys have these awesome machined contraptions, and my philosophy is more for utmost simplicity. For camera mount and mechanical hardware, I use aluminum sheeting cut with tin snips all fabricated with simple tools. A lot of my plane is held together with scotch tape... :D I want to be able to fix my plane with simple parts even in a foreign country.

Thanks for the info on the dome. We might try it out in the near future. For summer, I'm trying to line up a job in Mexico that will need even more steady video shots. I think the dome will help; the wind sometimes blows around the pendulum mount.

Best regards,

-Vince

Hi Vince,
Yes you are correct; I have to be stupid (very brave) to use white foam :eek: The first thread mentioned at the beginning says that I’m looking for EPP plane! And this is an EPP wing.
Are you connecting to P-Patron?
“….the camera just hanging..” are you the guy that using the camera pendulum concept? I like your work very much and I’ll be very pleased to mutually work on the right airfoil new project.
The dome is a half ball, 160mm in diameter and weight 98gr.
Itzik

[CactusJackSlade]

OK, hooked on your build thread, been thinking about a wing myself since that's how I re-entered RC stuff a few years ago, been watching all you guys with AP wings for future reference.

I've been saving a semi-custom EPP high aspect ratio 11' flying wing for just this sort of wing thing :D ...

Any new developments?

Thanks for posting, I know build logs are alot of work!

CJS (AKA: Depron Dragon)

[quailbird]

11'----Wow! I want to see that! Get to workin' on it! Can't wait to see it fly!

[ppatron]

Is it 11 inches or 11 feet? Must be a chore to hand launch that baby.

Paul

[Ming]

How is going on? any update?

Ming Lou

[Itzik Ronen]

sorry guys, I’m very busy these days at work;
In the last 2 weeks I finish with the:

- Servo bays and covers.
- Turnover sensor bay.
- Motor mount, I lost a lot of time to determine the motor mounting angle.
- And the most important, I finish the design and material definitions for the skis. comming next.

[Itzik Ronen]

Motor mount, I lost a lot of time to determine the motor mounting angle

[ppatron]

Itsik,

Since we don't use landing gears for our planes, we have padded the belly of our airplane with some scrap epp foam(this acts like skids)...something that can be replaced every once in a while. By not having landing gears, the aircraft stops right away when it is on the ground and is a lot safer since it is also a pusher.

How much is the weight of all the gears that you have added to the Queen Bee? Are we talking about 1.5 to 2 lbs?

I have PM you the link to the Camera with pan/tilt and pendulum.

Paul

[Itzik Ronen]

Itsik,

Since we don't use landing gears for our planes, we have padded the belly of our airplane with some scrap epp foam(this acts like skids)...something that can be replaced every once in a while. By not having landing gears, the aircraft stops right away when it is on the ground and is a lot safer since it is also a pusher.

How much is the weight of all the gears that you have added to the Queen Bee? Are we talking about 1.5 to 2 lbs?

I have PM you the link to the Camera with pan/tilt and pendulum.

Paul
Hi Paul,
I have to agree with you. I’m not intending really to ski; it will behave more like spring loaded skids. The idea is that it cannot block the filming line; it has to be “transparent” almost.
The weight distribution will be: 30% main camera gear. 25% “system” gear and the rest – airframe, motor, battery skis etc’ ----- total weight of 8lb

Itzik

[wattsup_kz]

Fascinating project! Looks great!

Skids instead of skis
I think that skis without snow become skids. :)

Brian

[CactusJackSlade]

Thanks for sharing! Keep it coming!

[danstah]

Any further progress?

[Itzik Ronen]

Any further progress?
Sorry not so much :( . I’ve travel in Germany on business for 2 weeks and I’m recovering for one more….next week I’m planning to finish the skis and start the dummy for the turtleback.
Itzik

[QuietRiot]

Won't the plastic globe distort the image - shooting through an extra layer of anything would affect the quality I would think - particularly when curved.

[Itzik Ronen]

I’ve bought 2nd set of wing tips for the Queen, I like to build winglets and I like to have spare tips to play with. Thanks Lou for all the spare parts and goodies you add to the order.
I also bought the Ele-Bee, the electric small sister of the Queen Bee. I don’t have any experience flying wings and for sure not electric one. Lou suggested to practice with the Ele-Bee that the flying characteristics are similar.
I got the Ele-Bee yesterday afternoon and today there was the test flight.
1. This kit is brilliant design and assembled in no time.
2. To fly it was ridicules easy! It was my first time and in 5min I was doing all aerobatics, fast, slow and spot landings.
Itzik Ronen

[Itzik Ronen]

Won't the plastic globe distort the image - shooting through an extra layer of anything would affect the quality I would think - particularly when curved.
Yes, in general you are right :eek: . If you read the thread carefully you see that I’m using optical hi quality dome, and I hope that it will not affect the picture so much. Anyway, the purpose of this project is to experience new technologies and equipment.
We will see ;)

[Ming]

Itzik

Bee family have another two members Mini Bee and Micro Bee.
The Mini Bee is good size for fun I like it most.

Ming Lou

[Ming]

Update?

[danstah]

any update?

[Itzik Ronen]

I’m working a lot with the Ele-Bee, I just love it.
As I mention earlier I’ve bought this wing because of the similarity with the QB. It is my firs time flying wings so I’m practicing almost every day (god bless summer time). Last week I start loading the wing to get the feeling of the speed it will accumulate and to see how much deferent is the flight characteristics. Gradually I load 450gr (1lb)!!!!
I have to tell you, this is a great wing. It is faster but it was very nice and important experience to me.
Itzik

[Itzik Ronen]

I finish designing the skis and starting building it.
I start with the base and made it from fly wood. As usual, the concept is to work with a large area of contact with the EPP to spread the pressure.

[Itzik Ronen]

I face a problem trying to open the pockets in the EPP wing. Usually I’m working with a sharp knife, but I’m getting poor results and not straight and clean surfaces. This time I’ve decide to do it differently:
I build hot wire cuter, using the same technique as the electric arch.
It worked wonderful.
Then I use the Gorilla glue to hold it in place. This glue will feel all the gaps and leave some flexibility.
Tomorrow I’ll add the skis.
Thanks
Itzik

[Itzik Ronen]

I build hot wire cuter, using the same technique as the electric arch.

[Skycruiser]

What motor/battery package are you planning on using?

[Itzik Ronen]

What motor/battery package are you planning on using?
the motor is Hacker B40-19L with 4.4:1 gear, and 2x 3S4100mAh in a line (24V)
Nio

[Itzik Ronen]

the skis are ready. I'm not so happy with the results, and i'll see.

[Trikster]

What an interesting build! I cannot wait to see the finished product.

[spicoli82]

I hope nothing goes wrong with his first flight... My God... All of this build time and if it went up and nosed dived into the ground, I would kill myself. :eek:

[SpleenRippa]

nose dives are what EPP is meant for ;-)

[Itzik Ronen]

nose dives are what EPP is meant for ;-)
Correct! Did you find the thread interesting? Educating?

[Ming]

Any update?

[richard.w]

I am building an QB as well and I am very much interested on your experience

Thanks
Richard

[Ming]

Ronen

Any update?

Ming Lou

[dalbert02]

Bump...
Anything new?
-dave

[Ming]

Any update please.

Ming Lou

[Ming]

Queen Bee + FlyCamOne2 combo:
http://www.windrider.com.hk/product.asp?id=168
US$220 +US$70 shipping cost only.

Ming Lou

[mecevans]

the flycam2 is horrible.

[Gary Mortimer]

yes

[Skycruiser]

If anyone's interested, here's a camera wing that I'm just finishing. 84" span, 4 servos, to run on 4sA123. The wing separates for transport, has a carbon tube spar and a 1/8 ply full depth front spar/joiner.

I've tested the camera in an electric soarer, works well for still and video. Should be test flying in a couple of weeks.

Camera mount isn't put in yet, I'll be testing with a weight first. It will be adjustable over 90deg, from look forward to look down.

Nick

[Ming]

I find this video on YouTube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd-pJKEQQrU

Ming Lou

[downeym]

the queen bee makes a very nice camera platform... that video was from my maiden flight. Here is the latest flight I took earlier today.

Thanks Ming!

http://vimeo.com/5442055

[Ming]

Cool!
Please share what the power system you use.

Ming Lou

[downeym]

that flight was done using

hacker b50LMR (b50s-7 with carbon case and 6.7:1 gearbox)
castle creations phoenix 60
TP 3s3p 6000 pack
aeronaut 13x7 prop

The plane is extremely underpropped right now for video flying. I was using the exact same setup in a hotliner with a 15x15 prop. If you were going to build it for normal flying, I would go up one more inch on the prop.

with the battery all the way forward, I dont need any lead to balance. I am using a clamshell mount and I used some aircraft ply to make a motor mount in the rear of the wing. The only tricky part of the build was trying to get the motor incidence neutral. I had to use a dremel tool to make the ply mount level before epoxying it into place.

all in all the build was quite easy and its a fun plane to fly.

I need to look you up next time I am in Hong Kong. I would love to see some of the slopes where you fly!

[Ming]

My prop is just 11.5 inch with smaller motor.
Welcome to visit HK and the slope:
http://www.rcsail.com/flyingsites.htm
Queen Bee get many stings from Bee and Beevo every time flying on the slope in Hong Kong.

Ming Lou

[fly_boy99]

Not to dissuade you from you from your endeavors there downey but you have video proof you flew over 400 feet.

I hope you know your area and it's controlled airspace. It sure looks rural but this is no excuse for making another Corsair - A320 Airbus incident either!

[downeym]

its class E at the launch site which means I am good up to 18,000 feet with the only restriction being 3 mile visibility...

Thanks for asking though...

[Nimski]

I've put a 20cc engine on one of these Queen Bees launched with a catapult. It's a great plane. So versatile.

[fly_boy99]

"Class E: Operations may be conducted under IFR, SVFR, or VFR. Aircraft operating under IFR and SVFR are separated from each other, and are subject to ATC clearance. Flights under VFR are not subject to ATC clearance. As far as is practical, traffic information is given to all flights in respect of VFR flights."

Amazing you have ATC clearance for a 100" Wing from China. As well, your VLOS is good up to 18k feet? Incredible!

Man you must be called Eagle eyes... :rolleyes:

You really should rethink everything you are doing otherwise alot of amateur UAV folks will be coming down on you hard. See this before you stick your foot in your mouth any further:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831627&highlight=requirements+for+UAV




its class E at the launch site which means I am good up to 18,000 feet with the only restriction being 3 mile visibility...

Thanks for asking though...

[downeym]

"Flights under VFR are not subject to ATC clearance.

Why is it ok to operate in this airspace if you are an ultralight pilot, but not a 6lb RC airplane? There are no FAA restrictions to the use of RC aircraft in Clas E airspace.. please reread the regulations again.

[Gary Mortimer]

Because the ultralight has a fully configured sense and avoid system on board that is trained to preserve itself, aircraft and other users.

The system also monitors position and is able to return to home via complex non direct paths.

It also has a weather alert function and can even detect birds!

Certainly does have limitations in smaller aircraft they tend to only operate day VFR but with an upgrade to the memory and actuators may fly IFR.

So once you have fitted one of those to the wing you will be fine all the way to 18k.

[downeym]

ok.. lets agree to disagree and not hijack this thread... Thanks for your concerns...