fanwing???

[speedy-biker]

hello, I was thinking about an UAV fanwing.
a fanwing is a very new design, but it has a few advantages:
Short take-off and landing capability
Low fuel consumption
Simple, economical construction
Slow flight with high manoeuvrability
Stability in flight (due to reduced sensitivity to the angle of incoming air)
No stall
Simple control system,
but I wanna know what I would need to let it flie a simle route by it self???
I got an old laptop wich I can use.

thanks for reading
Jacar

[Itzik Ronen]

can you give more info on the fanwing?
look at that :) my blog flying wing as a platform for aerial and video photography.
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/member.php?u=51644

[Terry S]

I saw a model one once but it was far from stable.

Terry

[speedy-biker]

do you wanna know more about what I am planning to do? or do you wanna know more about the "real thing"?
for the real thing go to www.fanwing.com
and here are a few of my specs:
span: 120 (cm)
length: not sure about 80
engine: nova mega .12 (I still have that engine lying around here so I will try to use that)
gear ratio: about 7:1
I don't know much more...
the main reason why I want something like this is because it has room for gears (which most aircraft I have found just don't have..., and it needs to be geared down or the engine won't live for very long...)
but if someone has a better idea for a stable (bigscale would be stable...) aircraft which has enough space for gears (belt drive or tooth drive)
than that would be very helpfull. (maybe if I would build something like this??? than I can place the engine at the "bottem" and let a belt drive the prop at the "top"??? this would be much eassier, cheaper and would handle better I think...)

grtz Jacar

[joelhaasnoot]

We call that a "pusher"

[kd7ost]

Where or how do you plan on getting the fans? I imagine there are small squirrel cage blowers that would have fans but it seems that might be critical. Any idea's? It's a cool concept.

Dan

[Mark Harris]

We had lots of fun ripping into this design at work haha. Its now known as the lawnmower to us.. looks like reel mower upside down. Easy to tell where it crashed... just look for the nicely cut lawn. Inverted landings are prefered, keeps the landing strip nicely trimmed.

Its a rather interesting design, does not not seem safe in any context of the word though, having those blade whirring around. I've seen enough fingers cut off by conventional propellers never mind something that looks like a lawn mower.

[speedy-biker]

the fans are made from wood...(triplex)
and I know thats a pusher but maybe I could built something like that because the prop is relatifly high...

[Capt. Crunch]

Jacques Coustou and several yachts were fitted with these (mounted with the axis verticle) in the 70's & 80's and tested, I'm not sure why, but they proved impracticle in normal use.

One thing is there's a lot of mass rotating around, and mounting with proper rorsional rigidity may be the killer in practicle use. I can't see the strength to weight ratios working out except in small scales like models up to 3 or so Meters. slow flight might have some yaw control issues in gusty winds, but otherwise I'd love to see them fly some long distances.

[Tom Harper]

Capt,

The Costeau craft had Fletner 'sails'. They were rotating cylinders. Not practical for Costeau's application but worked well in the grain trade. Fletner built two ships that were in commercial use. The advantage was that only a small crew was required the run the thing. It lost out to steam but when oil goes to $400 a barrel it might make a comeback.

The 'fanmobile' is wierd. The rotor looks like it is shrouded with an inlet in the LE and outlet at the TE. A normal rotor fan would have the inlet in the center with much larger blades. But, hey, if it works....

[Capt. Crunch]

You're right! Boy it was 30+ years ago and I got the yacht Sails, which had many long blades like the Fanmobile, mixed up with the Fletner Sails, which did work out as you noted. Also there were several Composite Wing Like Sails for yachts that never seemed to catch on, possibly a prejudice thing that yachting is famous for.

I'd like to know what the L/D ratio or coefficient of drag is for the Fanmobile at typical operating speeds.

The quoted 20 grams per watt powere to weight ratio looks to be very impressive, but in 1997 a group of us constructed a "Heavy Lifter" electric airplane that won the last "Astro Champs" held at Mile Sq. Park in Orange Co. by hauling 17 lbs for 2.5 minutes around the pattern on 350 Watts, 22gr/watt. With current technology I'm sure we could beat that by 15-25%. It had brushed colbolt motors and 1700MAH Sanyo NiCad batteries in it. Oh yeah, and that was Payload, gross weight would have been more like 22-27 lbs for 28-35 grams/Watt.

Anyway, the Global Hawk designers say that the best overall design for a UAV/Endurance/Recon aircraft is the flying wing. The Air Force would never have accepted that layout so they did it as a conventional aircraft.
Now if I were to design a high efficiency platform, I'd go with the flying wing, the only drawback to them is the landing situation. In less than full size airframes they are hard to get to land smoothly and reliably.

Oh well, enough fodder for now.

[Tom Harper]

Capt.,

The Cl/Cd ratio is a good question. It must have a spectacular separation bubble. I did not see any plots of lift vs fan rotation speed. I wonder if the fan makes any difference.

[speedy-biker]

well I think I won't do it, but now I'm looking for another design...
I don't know much about flying wings could you help me out?

jacar

[CenTexFlyer]

well I think I won't do it, but now I'm looking for another design...
I don't know much about flying wings could you help me out?

jacar

Well if he can't... I can!

We have been using flying wings for about the last 5 years in aerial photography, search and rescue, and now.... dare I say it.... UAs. You can check out our website at www.rpflightsystems.com (http://www.rpflightsystems.com)

We have developed an airfoil that will slow down quite nicely for both landing and taking aerial photographs, while hauling a pretty impressive payload for it's size. The design of our airfoil has wrung out all the nasty habits of a flying wing in terms of pitchy-ness and tip stall characteristics. You can fly one of these in high delta mode all the way to the ground and it will not break over into a spin. Our standard configuration with payload and batteries comes out to around 5 lbs on a 52" wingspan airframe. We have started stretching some to 60" but have found that it doesn't do much other than increase drag. We utilize a pod design that is very similar to BWB but just not quite as smooth, but we're also working on that.

We can do a fully autonomous solution for about half of what everyone else is asking - simply because a flying wing is so simple! As you might imagine, the recent FAA edict has put a tremendous damper on our business, but we won't go there, will we? :mad: :censored: :mad: So if you are looking for a recreational UA then I highly recommend a wing!

Gene

[Airboatflyingshp]

You need to check out the Dutch inter-X site you will find all manner of creations and creative solutions there there!

[speedy-biker]

do you mean a delta or something else...
maybe a few pics of what you mean?

Jacar

[Capt. Crunch]

As you might imagine, the recent FAA edict has put a tremendous damper on our business, but we won't go there, will we? :mad: :censored: :mad:
Gene[/QUOTE]

Enlighten me, what has the Friendly Avaition Admin been up to now?

Thanks,
Wayne

[Capt. Crunch]

do you mean a delta or something else...
maybe a few pics of what you mean?

Jacar

See his Web page http://www.rpflightsystems.com
you'll get the idea and reasons to use wing vs. conventional layout.

Wayne

[CenTexFlyer]

Now this is interesting.... I posted a reply to your question concerning the FAA, Capt. Crunch..... and it seems to have been deleted. Whiskey Tango Fox?

[Myron]

Wayne,

In short, the FAA has drawn a line in the sand...If you fly a UA/model aircraft, anything that flies for hire, your basically grounded.. Yes Grounded.. What is deemed the largest growth sector in the US in the coming years is being stymied by the FAA... Since they have grounded us, maybe we should sent them our bills!!!

Myron

[Capt. Crunch]

Wayne,

In short, the FAA has drawn a line in the sand...If you fly a UA/model aircraft, anything that flies for hire, your basically grounded.. Yes Grounded.. What is deemed the largest growth sector in the US in the coming years is being stymied by the FAA... Since they have grounded us, maybe we should sent them our bills!!!

Myron

Thanks Myron,

Since this is the first I've heard of this, can you give me a reference?

I've checked the FAA web site and find no specific mention of Model/UAV/UAS restrictions, either new or on-going.

Many thanks,

Wayne

[CenTexFlyer]

Capt. Crunch....

You can start the read here.... http://www.rcapa.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1282

[speedy-biker]

well I don't see any reason why I should use a flying wing over a conventional design...
but I would like to make a delta (mostly a very fast plane) with a camera and a greater distance (don't know how to say what I mean..., I just wanna control it from a great distance, how could I do this?)

Jacar

[Myron]

Jacar,

A flying can go real fast if you want it to.. We have one that tops out at 96 MPH in straight and level flight.. As far as the distance, your off the shelf remote can go farther that you could see your aircraft with your naked eye. IF you want to go farther still, maxstream has radio modems that have a range out to 15-20 miles, but you will have to have an autopilot to fly the plane...

Wayne, There is much on this subject at RCAPA site and in threads in the ariel photography forum here on RCG.. There is alot of this in the other forums like RunRyder, RC Universe as well..

I just noticed where your currently located.. Thanks for serving...
I know that around 80% of all flights over there are now flown by fully automous systems.. Unfortunately the FAA doesnt know what to do for the million and one uses of a UA here in the US..




Myron

[Capt. Crunch]

Myron,
Thanks for the info on long range, just what I want to do in a year or so.

Roger that on UAVs, we fly two different kinds here, Ranger & Preditor, lots of flights per day. Most of our flights are what you'd call semi-automous, pilot stays with it all the way, but routine legs are on the auto. Yes the FAA is in a quandry on what to do, I can see their point about having safe vechicles overfly people, etc. but if you're not over people, why care?
I sure don't want them deciding if I can fly or not, their track record says they should stay away, just like they do with Ultralights!
In the link you sent me, one fella has the right idea, inundate them with requests to do something, and then we suggest what should be done! Just the way it works with the Airlines.
Off SoapBox... I like your RCAPA site verry much, lots of good info, you guys have been doing this for a while and have most of it all sorted out, love it.

Thanks for all the good info.
It's getting to bedtime here, 5 AM comes pretty early for me, never a morning person!

Wayne

PS, Jacar, get into electric powered model airplanes, find a local club to help get started, and within 6 months you'll know what kind of plane you'll need to do what you feel is a reasonable task. There's nothing like hands on experience to help with decision making.

WW