Reflex XTR 5.0.4 demo at Toledo

[emarsh]

Howdy all,

MRC was showing the new version of XTR (5.0.4?) at the Toledo Show with the new horseshoe controller. I'm curious to know if anyone has found this for sale anywhere? The MRC web page has nothing on it and the XTR site refers to it, but no purchase clicky-linky to be found.

It sounds like they have some interesting plans for the XTR and interface controller, but if I understood the guy correctly it is going to be expensive (>$500). Can anyone comment or confirm?

Thanks,
Eric

[Accu157]

Yes, from threads in the past, it's going to be around the price you typed. However, If I read correctly, it will also be able to accept a module in the future. (2.4Ghz). Not many places have them for sale yet. http://www.heliguy.com has them, the Reflex Sim is around $186, the iVol is $190. I don't know if you can actually buy them. I think it's just a built-in currency converter doing it's job. There may be regional settings for the software.

[Malc C]

The Ivol concept is modular. The initial stage (as it is now) is in effect an XTR interface coupled together with a transmitter that is used in much the same way as the G3 interlink controller does. However the main difference is that later this year Reflex hope to release a trasnmission module that plugs into the iVol so that it becomes a fully working transmitter. The $500+ price tag you've seem mentioned is probably for the complete package.

The concept is that you have a simulator model for the real model in your garage. you set up the sim model using servos with the same speed and tourque etc as the real life model, the same motor settings etc so that in essance the sim model is as near to the real life model as possible. you then fly the sim model and make any trim adjustments and then plug in the transmission module and go fly the real model using the iVol. Any trim adjustments you make on the iVol for the real model is then uploaded to the sim model when you next fly the simulator - thus the sim model and real life model is effectivly syncronised.

The next stage will be for the user to upload that configuration to a web server for others with the same model to download and try out. The idea is that it should save loads of time setting up a new model, or setting up an existing model for acrobatics etc. Personally I like the concept, and I like the fact that Wolfgang is taking the integration between simulator and real life modeling to the next step, but I still feel that it will need to be cheaper to compete with the current method of using a standard TX for flying the model, and then pluging it in to a USB interface provided with the simulator. Although I was privilaged enough to of been sent a pre-release sample of the iVol before Christmas, it didn't have the feel and the same value factor as my JR X3810 transmitter, however the current production iVols may feel and look slightly different.

If we see Ipacs and Knife Edge following suit with their own versions of the iVol then we'll know Wolfgang is on to a winning idea.. on then other side of the coin it could be that the concept doesn't work in practice and the hardware makes for a very expensive transmitter !

[Accu157]

We'll see how it goes. It is a good idea, I just think that using existing transmitters would be best... I don't know. I do think this may be the way of the future in 20 years, it's just a little too soon. I can't take a photo of my plane and expect the computer to figure out how it will fly, and make a model of it.

I must say that I really like Reflex XTR's model making system, it is really easy to make your own model (first time is hard, second time is easy), and nice. The only think I don't like, is there's no spreadsheet or guideline explaining how to setup the parameters from scratch. I think they'll make sense to me in the future (college), I just wish there were a fast-track to quickly educate people. Measure this, type this in, refer to this example spreadsheet, type that in, and you're done, you know. I'll start a thread on making models for XTR, see what people are doing.

[AndyOne]

I still don't see how making "trim adjustments" helps simulate the real model. Does the new Reflex system have it's own transmitter, it still isn't obvious to what this is all about.
Malc, can you explain it in terms that someone who has only used conventional sims can understand.

Thanks,

Andy.

[Malc C]

Andy, I'll try ;)

Yes in essence its a fully fledged transmitter, with a built in USB interface that works with XTR. The way Wolfgang described its function to me is that it will replace the way modellers currently set up their models by having to work through loads of trim settings and config menus on the TX.

Lets look at a possible scenerio.

Joe Blogs goes out and buys a model spitfire and a futaba TX. He installes an XYZ 60 engine and some ABC123 servos. He then programmes his radio with all the rates, flap settings, throttle hold, mixing etc and sets the engine up a little rich and goes to the flying field. On his first flight he makes a few trim adjustments and gets the model flying nice and sweet. He then goes home and plugs in his TX into his PC via the XTR dongle and launches XTR. However he then has to set up the model spitfire in XTR to fly like his model, and after hours of tweeking he gets it as near as possible to the real model. A few weeks later he wants to try a more acrobatic set up and so changes the settings inn XTR to give a more lively performance, and having done so then has to manually replicate this by either changing the settings on the current model selection on his TX, or copy it to another model on the TX and then manually change the TX set up to match that of the simulator model. If when Joe coles to fly the model he finds that further tweeks are needed then he will need to do the same with the sim model when he gets home.

Now Joes mate Ivor gottahavit buys the same spitfire, but also shells out and buys the iVol with the transmission module. He gets home, plugs in the iVol to his PC and boots up XTR. He selects the spitfire from the model list, sets the servos up to the same touque and speed settings as the ABC123 servos and selects the XYZ 60 engine. He then goes and tries out the model in the sim and makes any trim changes he needs. Once happy he plugs in the transmission module into the iVol, unplugs the USB lead and goes to the airfield, and because the iVol has in effect already been programmed via the XTR interface and simulator in theory he should simply start the engine and go fly. If Ivor has to make any changes to the trims etc these are then applied to the simulator model the next time Ivor plugs in his iVol and runs XTR.

So in effect XTR becomes a means of programming the iVol rather than having to do it via buttons on the transmitter. However the other concept is that you could then share the settings and upload them to a server. So that anyone else with the same model / servos / engine could in theory simply download the config file, run XTR and upload it to the iVol and then take the model and iVol to the flying field and be flying the model as soon as you have filled the tank, thus saving hours of pre-flight trimming sessions etc.

Yes I can see flaws in the reallity. I mean just because I have the same model helicopter with the same servos/ motor/ etc as say Curtis Youngblood and I download the model file he uploads won't mean I will be able to fly it like him ! And in reallity you would never be able to get the real and virtual models to sync exactly, but there are some nice ideas in the concept that Wolfgang has. The current drawback is cost when compared to the ever falling prices of modern transmitters, and the amount of convincing it will take to get the modelling world to change from the traditional concept of using a TX for flying and a simulator for playing :)

I'm sure if I have missed something, or interpreted the concept wrongly Wolfgang would chip in and correct me, or if anyone has more questions then drop him a PM or e-mail via the XTR website.

Hope that makes things a bit clearer Andy ?

[AndyOne]

Malc,

Thanks for claryifing that but I still think the concept is a bit nebulous for it to be a true advance in R/C simulation, I certainly won't be buying one, as I always use a retired TX for my sim.
A true advance for me would to have an easy way of creating new models and scenery and especially to have the instructions in English not a slightly easier way of doing something I'm already easily capable of which is setting up TX menus.

Andy.

[Malc C]

Andy, hence my comment about trying to convice modellers who are set in their ways. The other thing is that as most of us who own a traditiaon TX have a few hundred £ or $ invested it it with a long term view of only having to replace it if it ever goes faulty, so wouldn't really want to go out and have to buy a complete new system to either fly our models or use with a simulator. Thus I feel that the market is somewhat limited to those who are just entering the hobby, or those "Ivor must have its" that just want the latest gizzmos and gadgets just because they're there !

[emarsh]

Thank you for explaining the new direction of XTR with USB\iVol.

I've been using Reflex XTR for about a year now and really like it much more than any other sim I've tried, but have recently found it hard to sit in front of the computer using a sim to practice. But at the Toledo show, MRC had the XTR 5.0.4 on display with very big screen TVs and that made the whole experience somewhat more immersive for me. So I need a big screen TV after all.

Anyway, it might be nice to get the new version of the XTR software since I sold my 5.0.2 recently, but it doesn't appear to be available anywhere. The link that Accu157 gave seems to be the older version (5.0.2)?

The only question I have left is: what XTR upgrades will be available and when.
1) will versions of XTR beyond 5.0.2/3 be usable with non-iVol TXs?
2) when/where can we get it?
3) how much $$?

Thanks again,
Eric

[bilboa]

Andy, hence my comment about trying to convice modellers who are set in their ways.

I don't think it's a question of people being set in their ways. I'm only recently getting back into RC modelling, so I'm not set in any particular way. I'm also a computer programmer by profession and love gadgets, so I should be an easy sell on this sort of thing if anyone is. However there are a couple of aspects of this idea that I'm very skeptical of.

1. I don't believe it can possibly be so simple to get a sim model to behave like your real model, as just entering in the correct servo torque, your motor's power rating, etc. It seems to me that this whole scheme of being able to setup trims and such on the sim, and have them just work for your real model, really depends on it being this simple to get a sim model to behave just like your real model. It may happen to work ok in a few cases, if your model is identical to the actual model used to tune one of the models in the sim, but for most people it will need to be the other way around; fly your real model, and then spend time tuning the sim model to be like your real model.

2. In my experience, most multi-purpose gadgets never serve any of their multiple purposes as well as dedicated gadgets. For instance, a phone/PDA/mp3 player gadget usually isn't as nice a good phone, PDA, or mp3 player. So I'm skeptical that the iVol will be as nice a transmitter as a similarly priced Futaba transmitter for instance.

[Malc C]

Eric,
I think that due to the changes made to the software to support the two way communications with the iVol, the later versions are not made available for download as they are not backwardly compatable with the dongle that came with 5.0.2 and earlier

Ajenkins,
You've hit the nail on the head. The pre-production sample I had used the production gymbols and switches, and it was no where near the same quality as my JR x3810. It felt like an oversized PS1 controller.

[Accu157]

I'm wondering if there will ever be an update to improve the physics, particularly for the airplanes, the helicopters are apparently just fine.

[Microbatman]

This product was definetly the best new product of the show.

What a concept. NEW ergonomic transmitter 2.4 that flys a simulated plane and a real plane. Hats off to MRC for taking the simulator concept to the next level.

I called MRC after going to the show to check availablitly and they said just working out pricing should be available in 1 month check for updates on the web. I checked the web and it says out of stock order from local hobby dealer.

Any one order one from thier local hobby shop yet?

[Malc C]

Hats off to MRC for taking the simulator concept to the next level.

It's Reflex that you should be thanking

http://www.reflex-sim.de/reflex-sim/shop/catalog/faqdesk_index.php?faqPath=127_131

[Microbatman]

Thanks for info
I will use that site as it has more info about what I want

Looks like MRC is a distributor not the maker.

http://www.modelrectifier.com/rc-products/flight-simulators-downloads.asp