"Big" chargers

[Martin Irvine]

I have an Astro 109 and an Orbit pro, both of which are limited to 9S packs. (This is equivalent to about 29 NiCads.) Now, I can charge 32 NiCads with the same Orbit, or 36 cells on my old 112, so I don't understand why the Orbit is limited to 9S with the Lipos, nor do I understand why Astro stopped at 9S with the 109. There are a lot of 10 - 12S planes flying now, so there certainly is a market for a higher voltage charger.

Question:
What are people using to charge 12S lipos or do you just split packs and have two chargers running? Has anyone heard of a 12S charger being developed?

Martin

[Eagleburger]

Here is a 12S charger.

http://www.aircraft-world.com/shopexd.asp?id=4901

[747drvr]

Hi Martin,

I just got that charger and it seems to be good value for the money . I got it mainly because it has an A123 program . I've managed to accumulate 70 of the cells and will be using them this season . See ya at Kingston hopefully . I start 777 school in June . I hope it doesn't mess up my Kingston plans !

Marc

[Martin Irvine]

Thanks guys, that looks like what I need. I'll quiz you at the end of June, Marc, on your experiences with it, and the A123s.

(Let's see, that's the 747, 757, 767, the A310 and now the 777?)

Martin

[Jocke]

There is also the Schulze, up to 14s Lipo in serie, also they have a brand new generation chargers on the way that looks very interesting.

[wrenwright]

Charge your lipo packs in parallel instead of series. A 12s can be divided into a 6s2p pack for instance.

That works as long as one isn't using a 12s pack that can't be split into two or more packs.

I'm going to be purchasing three 4s 6000mah packs to make a 12s setup for a 12' Telemaster which will be charged as a 4s3p pack. From the Astro 109 literature, I should be able to charge this pack at 1C without any problems.

[Martin Irvine]

I'm looking at E-Molis or A123 cells and they will be buried in a fuselage so that I'll be trying to avoid pugging and unplugging packs. The Hyperion looks pretty good, and reasonable compared with the Shulze, (I don't drive a Mercedes either! :D)

Martin

[Azarr]

Charge your lipo packs in parallel instead of series. A 12s can be divided into a 6s2p pack for instance.

That works as long as one isn't using a 12s pack that can't be split into two or more packs.

I'm going to be purchasing three 4s 6000mah packs to make a 12s setup for a 12' Telemaster which will be charged as a 4s3p pack. From the Astro 109 literature, I should be able to charge this pack at 1C without any problems.

The charger is going to "see" a 4S 18,000mah pack, 1C might be a problem.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

[Eagleburger]

I'm looking at E-Molis or A123 cells and they will be buried in a fuselage so that I'll be trying to avoid pugging and unplugging packs. The Hyperion looks pretty good, and reasonable compared with the Shulze, (I don't drive a Mercedes either! :D)

Martin

It would not be safe to leave the batts always connected.

No other charger will give you that much bag for buck.

[wrenwright]

The charger is going to "see" a 4S 18,000mah pack, 1C might be a problem.

Azarr
www.ecubedrc.com

Oops....

You're correct, sir. I was thinking about two different capacity packs at the time I typed that.

At any rate, the 109 WILL charge the larger packs if they can be rearranged for charging and while it won't charge at 1C, it won't take all day either.

[Martin Irvine]

It would not be safe to leave the batts always connected.

I would have a master on/off switch between the cells and the ESC. This has worked well in the past. I'll have to do some thinking about how to arrange for balancers as there aren't any 10-12 cell versions out there yet. (Or did I miss those too?)

Martin

[Gordon]

Hi Martin

The Hyperion charger in post 2 is only 180W so will max out at only 3.75A or maybe quite a bit less depending on its efficiency into a 12S pack (figure 180/(12x4.2).

Some of the Schulze chargers will handle up to 13S. My isl8-936 does on output 1 and with 310W capability will push about 5A into a 12s pack. Unfortunately output 2 only goes up to 11S and 115W with 5A max current which is a pain if you want to charge two 12S packs.

I've had this charger for many years and had it upgraded to Lipo. I've been using Orbit Lipocheckers for balancing http://www.orbitronic.de/ The snag with this setup is that it can take 90 mins for the Schulze to finally stop putting say 4Ah back into a 6Ah 6S pack, which is a pain at the flying field and a bore at home if recharging my eight 6S packs there.

So I've gone to TP chargers and balancers. I bought 2 TP 1010 chargers and 4 TP 210 balancers, and for the 12S power packs I'll soon be using, will have the packs split as 2x6S. Then I can charge 2x6S packs with the TPs, and 2x6S with the Schulze, with each pack allocated its own 210 balancer.

The nice thing about the 1010 is that you can charge to 95% value, and it only takes about 45 mins to totally recharge a pack, and about 35mins to put 3Ah in. Of course the available charge is then less, but 95% of 6,6Ah or 6AH is a good amount of charge.

Another thing about the way I'm doing it is that I can charge 6S 6Ah packs at 6A (only 5A on the Schulze o/p 2), so charging is reasonably quick.

My lead-acids for use at the field are 110Ah (and heavy!!) but I use a 13.8V 40A mains power supply at home.

Gordon

[Martin Irvine]

Hi Gordon:
I'm looking for a charger to handle E-Molis and A123 cells so I don't need a lot of current just voltage. My proposed set up, for a 1/4 scale Nieuport 17, (so this is the right forum!), uses an Astro 60 with a 2:1 Ultragear belt drive, and 32V battery. The Astro gives me the needed nose weight and will be happiest at about 30A max. Both these cells are OK at this point. Larger Lipos would be an option, but I don't need the current capacity as a biplane is more of a constant throttle type of model, as opposed to a 3D or EDF plane that has that left stick going up and down throughout the flight. I get an average of 8-9 min. out of E-Molis in my N.11 and that still leaves 1/3 capacity.
Regarding field batteries, last year I picked up a single Panasonic 33Ahr sealed unit and used it for the second half of the summer. I'm planning to get a second for this summer. Keith Shaw has found that a pair of these connected in parallel was sufficient for most of even his large fleet. The nice thing is that you can carry them "balanced" rather than endangering your back every time you go flying!

Martin

[colbyweb]

I have an xtrema and I love it. It charges 1 to 10 cell lithium batteries at up to 8 Amps in 50ma increments. It also functions as a wattmeter. Works with all popular battery chemistries including A123. It does not have a built in balancer.
I routinely charge my 5s1p A123 packs in 20 minutes which usually puts around 2200 mah back into my 2300 mah A123's
-Rick

[colbyweb]

Hi Gordon:
I'm looking for a charger to handle E-Molis and A123 cells so I don't need a lot of current just voltage. My proposed set up, for a 1/4 scale Nieuport 17, (so this is the right forum!), uses an Astro 60 with a 2:1 Ultragear belt drive, and 32V battery. The Astro gives me the needed nose weight and will be happiest at about 30A max. Both these cells are OK at this point. Larger Lipos would be an option, but I don't need the current capacity as a biplane is more of a constant throttle type of model, as opposed to a 3D or EDF plane that has that left stick going up and down throughout the flight. I get an average of 8-9 min. out of E-Molis in my N.11 and that still leaves 1/3 capacity.
Regarding field batteries, last year I picked up a single Panasonic 33Ahr sealed unit and used it for the second half of the summer. I'm planning to get a second for this summer. Keith Shaw has found that a pair of these connected in parallel was sufficient for most of even his large fleet. The nice thing is that you can carry them "balanced" rather than endangering your back every time you go flying!

Martin
How about some more info on these Panasonic 33Ahr packs? Thanks
-Rick

[Martin Irvine]

http://www.panasonic.com/industrial/battery/oem/images/pdf/Panasonic_VRLA_LC-R1233P.pdf

I got mine through Digikey in Canada.

Martin

[colbyweb]

Thanks Martin, it looks like I misunderstood you the first time, I did not notice you were talking bout a "field battery" I thought you had found some new flight battery
-Rick

[Gordon]

I'm looking for a charger to handle E-Molis and A123 cells so I don't need a lot of current just voltage.

Hi Martin

I've not heard of the E-Molis. The A123s don't have the capacity or current handling for my purposes, though I suspect that they do make good nose-weight for models of rotary-engined bipes ;)

I was surfing www.ejf.com and noticed that they have both the Hyperion charger and matching balancer. Apparently you can daisy-chain two balancers for up to 12S packs. I don't know if E-molis and A123s do need balancing, but if they do, this charger setup does sound like what you need.

Cheers

Gordon

[Martin Irvine]

Hi Gordon:

Yes the Hyperion/2 balancers set-up looks pretty good and they even sell it as a package.

The E-Molis got pas you 'cause you'd probably never consider them! They are "lipos in a can" - same chemistry but in a steel can. Each cell is 3.5oz, 3000mah nominal / 2800mah actual and is only good for about 30A or the voltage drops quickly. They are stripped down from drill packs. The advantage is that they are very crash resistant and can be charged at 3C. They also don't seem to require balancing as much as do Lipos, but the jury is still out on that. Rotary engined models don't care about a little extra weight. I am hopeful that the cycle life is better than Lipos, which get expensive in large packs.

The 70g A123s are a different chemistry but can be charged at 3C and seem to have very good life spans. They also seem to "self-balance", but again, it's early days.

Martin

[kevin]

am i missing something ?martin..how old is your orbit pro?

i have one (mine is 5 years old..new 6.52 software) and it says that it will do 12 cells ....though i havnt tried it yet.(did try 9 cells)

here is the spec from radicals orbit pro page.

Automatic quick charging 1-32 NiMH or NiCad cells at .1 to 8 amps or, Lithiums 1-12 Cells at .1 to 8 amps.

[Martin Irvine]

You've got a youngster:D:D:D

Mine is version 6.0 from about 2000- nonupdateable:(

Martin